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Aurion
2007-08-25, 09:11 PM
I'm going to be starting a new campaign, and I want to play a race with wings so I can fly, but looking through some of the races that get flight as an ability, most have a huge LA. So I was hoping that people could suggest some flying races with a low LA or none at all, excluding raptoran. I should point out that the character is going to be a fighter, so preferrably races with bonuses to str, con, and dex.

Lavin
2007-08-26, 12:31 AM
I don't really know about a flying race medium size or less. However, I do have a player who wanted something similar. I gave her (even at level one) a "Ring of Flight". It doesn't count towards the limitation of rings per hand, yet it has it's own set of restrictions. It can only be used for a certain amount of time (hours, minutes, rounds) per day. Talk to your DM and see if you can work out a compromise.

Notes on Ring use:
By way of reference, the wings, when not in use, as they are a magic-type aparition, fade away into nothingness. They are the feathery, angelic type.

Also, if the wings are attacked during battle, they disapear, causing nonleathal damage to the user (determine the ammount with your DM, whatever seems apropriate). Think of it as being a painful experience, akin to being struck powerfully between the shoulder blades with a club. If the user is suspended at the time, calculate apropriate falling dammage.

As a side note, the wing color reflects the personality of the user. As each person is different, no two pairs of Ring of Flight wings will be the same. The colors can vary from drab to vivid, from the simply designed (mono-color) to the intinsely complicated.

The ring "bonds" with the user the instant it is tried on, and refuses to work for any other than it's first user. Should the user die, the ring crumbles away into ash.

RTGoodman
2007-08-26, 12:50 AM
Well, Raptoran is one of the only races I know of that fits your description, but since you've excluded it you're sort of running short on options.

One option is half-dragon and I think the half-celestial or half-fiendish templates. The half-dragon will require you to be Large size to get wings, and it's a +3 LA, but you do get good stat bonuses for a fighter (including +8 Str). I'm not sure about the other two, but I think they're about the same. [EDIT: Looked them up, and half-celestial and half-fiend are +4 LA, but you don't have to be Large to get the bonus.]

One other option would be to play a Kobold and take the Dragonwrought and Draconic Wings feats. But a lot of people hate on the kobolds, so I don't know if you'd like to play one (especially since -4 Str, -2 Con isn't very good for a melee combatant).

SadisticFishing
2007-08-26, 12:59 AM
Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) is very good if you're willing to do the RP, and your DM is willing to let you fight evil dragons once in a while. Any Dragonblooded Humanoid can take two feats (Draconic Wings at level 1 and Improved Draconic Wings at level 6) to get wings. Make sure to use a piercing weapon and charge a lot (Power Attack/Shock Trooper is good for this, with a Glaive).

If you really just want to be able to deal with spellcasters at higher levels, just buy a Cloak of Flight, they only cost something like 50,000, so no biggie.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and you can't fly in medium or heavy armor. Take Reinforced Draconic Wings if you want to be able to.

Feralgeist
2007-08-26, 01:16 AM
Winged elf, or anything with the winged template from Savage Species

brian c
2007-08-26, 01:31 AM
I would recommend Kobold with Dragon Wings. To compensate for the bad physical stats of a kobold, the Draconic template (LA +1) or Half-Dragon (LA +3) will give you everything you need. You could even try convincing your DM to let you have Draconic at no LA, since kobolds are so freaking crappy anyway, or at worst you can buy it off early. (well, i guess at worst your DM doesnt allow LA buyoff, but even then +1 isn't too much for a melee build)

Nebnezz
2007-08-26, 01:32 AM
The Avariel, wingaling elves, are a LA of +3. They get some fun stuff, but are wingling elves none-the-less. Dont get me wrong, wing-a-lings and pointy ears are all kinds of fun, but the Races of Dragon works well too. The Half-dragon has the same LA and an get wings with a few feats (two for flight, four for flight under all weight conditions)

Captain van der Decken
2007-08-26, 01:44 AM
EDIT: Oh yeah, and you can't fly in medium or heavy armor. Take Reinforced Draconic Wings if you want to be able to.#

Actually, as long as you're carrying no more than a light load you can still fly with medium or heavy armour.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fly

A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. (Note that medium armor does not necessarily constitute a medium load.)

BardicDuelist
2007-08-26, 01:49 AM
If you use the no-LA variant tiefling or asimar, there are two feats that you can take in Races of Faerun. The second gives you wings.

A lesser planetouched air genasi you could take Improved Levitate (also from RoF) which lets you levitate in 10 min. incriments (number of times per day equal to caster level). This means you could do it for 50 min. per day.

Technically, by RAW you could play a fey-ri using the Lesser Planetouched variant from Players Guide to Faerun to give you no LA, alter self at will, and and wings in your natural form. Your DM might consider this cheap however.

Also, all of these things are 3.0, not 3.5, but since they have not been updated (to my knowledge), they are still RAW by 3.5. They are also all FR, but if all books published by WotC are allowed (which is assumed since you didn't specify otherwise).

All of the listed races (except asimar) have a dex bonus.

SadisticFishing
2007-08-26, 01:55 AM
#

Actually, as long as you're carrying no more than a light load you can still fly with medium or heavy armour.



Oh, didn't know that, thanks :D My Dragonborn Paladin/Shaman just got better.

Don't play a Kobold Fighter, though kobolds are very underrated (+3 ac +0 la? gib mir), play a Silverbrow Human (no extra skill points, feather fall 1/day, Dragonblood subtype) or any of the other draconic races. Fireblood Dwarf is also rather decent.

brian c
2007-08-26, 02:05 AM
Oh, didn't know that, thanks :D My Dragonborn Paladin/Shaman just got better.

Don't play a Kobold Fighter, though kobolds are very underrated (+3 ac +0 la? gib mir), play a Silverbrow Human (no extra skill points, feather fall 1/day, Dragonblood subtype) or any of the other draconic races. Fireblood Dwarf is also rather decent.

That's questionable. In Races of the Dragon, the Reinforced Wings feat description says


Normal: Flying creatures can't fly in medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

I doubt that the intent was to change the original rule (which is what was quoted from the SRD). It's possible that this was just a misquoted rule by the writers of RotD, or that the intent was to make dragon wing-ed creatures different from normal flying creatures. As a DM I would rule that a kobold with dragon wings cannoy fly with medium armor, but that's just my interpretation. I'm tempted to put this in the Q&A thread and see what Silvanos thinks.

SadisticFishing
2007-08-26, 02:07 AM
That explains my confusion.

Jack Mann
2007-08-26, 02:33 AM
The Monster Manual is the primary source here. One has to be carrying no more than a light load, but it explicitly points out that medium armor does not constitute a medium load. There is nothing ruleswise that prevents one from flying while in medium or even heavy armor, no matter what RotD says.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-26, 05:50 AM
Lords of Madness has the Starspawn+Aberration Blood Feat chain, which would let you fly continuously for a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier each hour(IIRC). Basically, similar to the mid-range Raptoran Flight. You can probably glide in between rounds.

Seems Armour doesn't affect Flight unless it combines with encumbrance to reduce you to less than half speed(and your Manoeuvrability is below Good).

Additionally, if we extrapolate from the tables in the DMG, your Flight "Medium Load" boundary is actually 1/3 of what it would be on the ground, if you have movement modes other than Fly(which most player characters would).

martyboy74
2007-08-26, 08:23 AM
Lords of Madness has the Starspawn+Aberration Blood Feat chain, which would let you fly continuously for a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier each hour(IIRC). Basically, similar to the mid-range Raptoran Flight. You can probably glide in between rounds.

On the other hand, that requires you to get Aberrant Blood and two other Aberrant feats. Four feats for that flight? No.

EDIT: A command word item of Alter Self would only cost 10,800 gold. Not bad for the manifold benefits that it could provide.

woc33
2007-08-26, 09:16 AM
As far as i remember flight is worth +2 points of LA, though i don't remember where it's stated, probably savage species.

The Vorpal Tribble
2007-08-26, 09:23 AM
To add to those mentioned, there is also the Hazaru, the flying squirrel/orangutan race from Stormwrack, though they can only really glide.

Jothki
2007-08-26, 11:45 AM
How many levels of Warlock do you need to pick up flight?

Aurion
2007-08-26, 03:51 PM
I'm going to pretige into Kensai, so heft of armor doesn't matter too much since they are a light armor fighter. Tell me more about the dragonblooded template, a link to it or just posting the full template would be very appreciated.

Kurald Galain
2007-08-26, 04:21 PM
How many levels of Warlock do you need to pick up flight?

IIRC 6 or so. Too much for a dip, at any rate.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-26, 11:33 PM
On the other hand, that requires you to get Aberrant Blood and two other Aberrant feats. Four feats for that flight? No.

Well, it's not nearly as bad as you'd think. Deepspawn gives you tentacles, Inhuman Reach enhances your Reach, the other "Spawn" grants you Swim Speed. Both Starspawn and the Swimming "Spawn" grant you Cold Resistance 5(doesn't stack), which is always useful. Bestial Hide gives Natural Armour AC for every couple of Aberrant Feats you pick up, and some of the others also accumulate based on the number of such Feats.

So really, it's a 4 Feat "chain", and you'll come out with Flight, Cold Resistance, maybe extra attacks, greater reach, good Armour, and a couple of "Racial Skill Bonuses". Sure, it's not "cheap", but it's certainly better than most Feat Chains out there.

Darrin
2007-08-27, 09:01 AM
So I was hoping that people could suggest some flying races with a low LA or none at all, excluding raptoran.

There are two fairly simple ways to pick up flight without a hefty LA. The first requires two feats, either from a draconic bloodline or a fiendish/celestial bloodline. A LA+0 Tiefling could take Fiendish Bloodline and then Outsider Wings. Both feats are in Races of Faerun, and require all your base saves to be +1 and +2 respectively. The LA +0 Tiefling is in Players Guide to Faerun. You can also use the Tiefling Racial Template class on the Wizards site and either just not take your racial level or take it later when it's more convenient (a melee type doesn't necessarily need the +2 Int, although the energy resistance is nice):

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

The Dragonborn/Kobold/Dragonblooded can also pick up flight with two feats (as has already been mentioned), Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. This kicks in at level 6, but sets your fly speed to 30. The Tiefling would have a flight speed equal to its land speed, so you could take advantage of Fast Movement, Longstrider, etc.

The other method doesn't require any feats, although your DM might consider requiring you to pick up a Fey bloodline feat (Dragon #311 or Dragon Compendium) or something similar. Click on the link above and page down to the "Half-Fey Template Class". By picking up this two-level template class (essentially a LA +2 but broken up into two racial class levels you can take whenever convenient), you gain a fly speed equal to twice your land speed with good maneuverability. Your DM might not allow this... as templates go, this is probably a lot cheaper than it needs to be, not because of the flight but because of the stat buffs and spell-like abilities (Charm Person at will? Yes please!). However, "Tinkerbell" may not be the right image for your flying fighter-type.

Anxe
2007-08-27, 09:34 AM
Yeah the Winged Template. That's only a +1 LA.

Artemician
2007-08-27, 09:44 AM
Yeah the Winged Template. That's only a +1 LA.

Actually, it's an LA +2. But it's still a pretty solid template, especially for Frontliners (gives much-needed mobility)

Imrix.
2007-08-27, 10:00 AM
Keep in mind though that, if your DM allows the LA buyoff rules any LA up to +3 can be bought off by 20th level, so Half-Dragon is still possible, if you're willing to think in the long run.