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Climowitz
2018-01-24, 10:54 AM
I'm currently building a base class around wild shape and rage, called Wildling. And u could use some ideas about, all i have to give it more flavor is an improve to wild shape called feral shape, which allows the wildling to transform into a humanoid beast retaining speech and the ability to use items while getting the raw fisical power from beasts like natural attacks and skills improvement. What else do you think it could have to be more unique?

brian 333
2018-01-24, 04:37 PM
Have you looked into the Shifter PrC?

Is this character a kind of druid? Is divine magic involved?

I can see a doppleganger/human hybrid having zero magical training but being able to train and improve its ability to assume shapes. Perhaps the possibility exists for injecting doppleganger essence into someone, allowing them to begin to learn to become what they choose, within limits.

So, The Infused (placeholder name) are never Lawful.

The Infused can assume various shapes, but each form requires practice not only to assume a particular form, but to relearn how to walk or fight in the new shape. Therefore each new shape must be selected at levelup until The Infused masters Unlimited Shapes.

Level 1: ability to assume a physical appearance but not to duplicate attack forms or supernatural abilities. Only spells which have components which can be performed by a particular form can be cast. Verbal components require the ability to speak, for example, and while a monkey could use somatic gestures and manipulate material components, it cannot use any verbal components.

Level 3: ability to assume forms which fly, swim, or use other means of locomotion, (slugs and snakes, for example,) and make use of the environment to which the form is native. (Fish swim and breathe water, for example.)

Level 5: ability to use attack forms natural to the shape. The Natural Weapon feat must be taken to avoid non-proficiency penalties.

Level 9: supernatural powers available to the form may be used. Communication with creatures of the assumed form is possible, but limited by the intelligence of the creature. For example, a flock of blackbirds may know "food" or "flee" but not much else, while an ogre would be able to hold a conversation so long as you don't try to explain an algebra problem. Similarly, the character's intelligence limits the upper level of his ability so that Titans might think him extrordinarily stupid.

Level 15: knowledge natural to a form is known by The Infused, allowing the character to browse for bear forage while in the bear shape. While spellcasting forms allow spellcasting, the ability to learn or pray for spells is limited by the caster levels of the character. Thus, a brownie shape may be capable of invisibility, but a brownie wizard form can only cast or learn spells if the character has wizard levels.

Level 20: The Infused can assume the powers, knowledge, and personality of a specific person. The person must be touched for this effect. While this touch is not harmful, it is unlikely that an Infused will adopt an identity then leave the victim in a state which allows it a chance to expose the imposter.

Shapes learned at levelup
Level: CR of shapes
1: CR 1
2: CR 2
3: CR 3
4: CR 4
5: CR 5
6: CR 1, CR 6
7: CR 2, CR 7
8: CR 3, CR 8
9: CR 4, CR 9
10: CR 5, CR 10
11: CR 1, CR 6, CR 11
12: CR2, CR 7, CR 12
13: CR 3, CR 8, CR 13
14: CR 4, CR 9, CR 14
15: CR 5, CR 10, CR 15
16: CR 1, CR 11, CR 16
17: CR 2, CR 12, CR 17
18: CR 3, CR 13, CR 18
19: CR 4, CR 14, CR 19
20: Unlimited shapes, Max CR equals Infused character levels

Thus a Level 3 Infused character knows three shapes only, while a level 6 Infused knows two CR1 shapes and one shape each at CRs 2-6. A shape, once chosen, cannot be 'unlearned' to make room for another. However, a shape may be chosen which has features which cannot be used until a later level. For example, a Raven can be selected at level 1, but The Infused cannot fly until level 3.

I'd give The Infused Cleric HD and combat progression, and Druid saves.

I have not adressed shapes per day, but I'd recommend Infused (Level/3)+ Int Bonus per day, mimimum 1/day

Con would be the base stat of this class, requiring Con 11+ to take the class. Int is not required, but highly useful.

The Infused can use simple weapons, shields, and light armor.

Now recall that this is off the cuff and still needs a lot of work to make an actual character class or PrC. But I hope it serves to infuse your concept with inspiration.

Climowitz
2018-01-24, 05:06 PM
Have you looked into the Shifter PrC?

Is this character a kind of druid? Is divine magic involved?

I can see a doppleganger/human hybrid having zero magical training but being able to train and improve its ability to assume shapes. Perhaps the possibility exists for injecting doppleganger essence into someone, allowing them to begin to learn to become what they choose, within limits.

So, The Infused (placeholder name) are never Lawful.

The Infused can assume various shapes, but each form requires practice not only to assume a particular form, but to relearn how to walk or fight in the new shape. Therefore each new shape must be selected at levelup until The Infused masters Unlimited Shapes.

Level 1: ability to assume a physical appearance but not to duplicate attack forms or supernatural abilities. Only spells which have components which can be performed by a particular form can be cast. Verbal components require the ability to speak, for example, and while a monkey could use somatic gestures and manipulate material components, it cannot use any verbal components.

Level 3: ability to assume forms which fly, swim, or use other means of locomotion, (slugs and snakes, for example,) and make use of the environment to which the form is native. (Fish swim and breathe water, for example.)

Level 5: ability to use attack forms natural to the shape. The Natural Weapon feat must be taken to avoid non-proficiency penalties.

Level 9: supernatural powers available to the form may be used. Communication with creatures of the assumed form is possible, but limited by the intelligence of the creature. For example, a flock of blackbirds may know "food" or "flee" but not much else, while an ogre would be able to hold a conversation so long as you don't try to explain an algebra problem. Similarly, the character's intelligence limits the upper level of his ability so that Titans might think him extrordinarily stupid.

Level 15: knowledge natural to a form is known by The Infused, allowing the character to browse for bear forage while in the bear shape. While spellcasting forms allow spellcasting, the ability to learn or pray for spells is limited by the caster levels of the character. Thus, a brownie shape may be capable of invisibility, but a brownie wizard form can only cast or learn spells if the character has wizard levels.

Level 20: The Infused can assume the powers, knowledge, and personality of a specific person. The person must be touched for this effect. While this touch is not harmful, it is unlikely that an Infused will adopt an identity then leave the victim in a state which allows it a chance to expose the imposter.

Shapes learned at levelup
Level: CR of shapes
1: CR 1
2: CR 2
3: CR 3
4: CR 4
5: CR 5
6: CR 1, CR 6
7: CR 2, CR 7
8: CR 3, CR 8
9: CR 4, CR 9
10: CR 5, CR 10
11: CR 1, CR 6, CR 11
12: CR2, CR 7, CR 12
13: CR 3, CR 8, CR 13
14: CR 4, CR 9, CR 14
15: CR 5, CR 10, CR 15
16: CR 1, CR 11, CR 16
17: CR 2, CR 12, CR 17
18: CR 3, CR 13, CR 18
19: CR 4, CR 14, CR 19
20: Unlimited shapes, Max CR equals Infused character levels

Thus a Level 3 Infused character knows three shapes only, while a level 6 Infused knows two CR1 shapes and one shape each at CRs 2-6. A shape, once chosen, cannot be 'unlearned' to make room for another. However, a shape may be chosen which has features which cannot be used until a later level. For example, a Raven can be selected at level 1, but The Infused cannot fly until level 3.

I'd give The Infused Cleric HD and combat progression, and Druid saves.

I have not adressed shapes per day, but I'd recommend Infused (Level/3)+ Int Bonus per day, mimimum 1/day

Con would be the base stat of this class, requiring Con 11+ to take the class. Int is not required, but highly useful.

The Infused can use simple weapons, shields, and light armor.

Now recall that this is off the cuff and still needs a lot of work to make an actual character class or PrC. But I hope it serves to infuse your concept with inspiration.

This is really cool and has given me a lot to think and adapt to what i'm trying to achieve. Just by itself that class looks great, however i would change CR to HD. Thanks a lot for that it is really helpful.

aimlessPolymath
2018-01-24, 05:23 PM
I mean, there are good reasons to set things by CR instead of HD. In general, brute-type creatures will have far more HD than CR, so the're inefficient, pushing the class towards creatures with weird utility powers, and keeping it from turning into the simpler forms.

For example, a Beholder (CR 13) is far more useful than a Hill Giant(CR 7), but a Hill Giant has one more hit die.

The power of all those extra HD can be mitigated by having damage always assigned to the character's base hit points (so to speak).

brian 333
2018-01-24, 06:12 PM
Well, at very low levels this is less an issue than at high levels, but CR is a more accurate estimation of power than HD.

However, the outline above is just a brainstorm. Much tweaking required.

Something to consider is combat utility versus roleplay utility. If one notices, by Level 16 the Imbued would have 4 shapes at CR1. Why? What good is a CR1 shape to a Level 16 character?

A marmot
A sparrow
A rainbow trout
A monkey

This combination allows the character the ability to burrow, fly, swim in powerful currents, and brachiate through forests.

And every one of them is useful for spying too. An orc is unlikely to shoot a sparrow because a sparrow has no meat worth the cost of an arrow, for example, and while a fish may seem like an interesting meal, the trout can hang out hidden in the grass along the shore and listen to an orc army complain while they gather water. Imagine trying to catch the monkey who is escaping with your evil plot documents! And what wall bars a marmot, an animal which can dig under it in minutes?