Nova - The exploding E6 Barbarian

[daremetoidareyo]

I was working on the ninja E6 competition and I stumbled across some weird combo that I couldn't stop thinking about until I finished it. So here it is -


Nova the Exploding Barbarian

Human, azurin, or bonus feat halfling, or any race when flaws are allowed.

1.Berzerker strength (PH2 33) boar totem (UA 48) Barbarian 1
2.Berzerker strength (PH2 33) boar totem (UA 48) Barbarian 2
3.Berzerker strength (PH2 33) boar totem (UA 48) Barbarian 3
4.Warlock (Complete Arcane p.5) 1
5. Human Paragon (UA p.43) 1
6. Human Paragon (UA p.43) 2

Feats:
1. Frozen Berserker (Frostburn, p. 48), when raging get the cold subtype.
Human bonus: Mad Foam Rager (PHB2 p.80), As an immediate action, you can choose to delay the effect of a single attack, spell, or ability used against you.
Boar totem Bonus: Diehard (only when raging): When reduced to between -1 and -9 hit points, you automatically become stable.

3: Final strike (Savage Species p.34) Explode when you are dropped below -10 hp by something.

6: Heroic destiny (Races of Destiny, p. 152), add a d6 to a d20 roll
Paragon Bonus feat: Protected Destiny (Races of Destiny, p. 152), Once per day, any effect that would reduce you to -10 hit points or fewer instead reduces you to -9 hit points and leaves you in a stable condition.

Warlock invocations: Soulreaving aura, anything else (from human paragon level 2 advancing you)

Post 6th level feats
1. Blazing berserker (Sandstorm, p. 49), add fire subtype to your final strike
2. Good Karma (Complete Scoundrel, p. 77), get hit and go into rage or xplosion
3. Tempting fate (Complete Scoundrel, p. 80), explode 2x per day!
4. Ettercap berzerker (Unapproachable East, p. 43) +6 to con when raging, heck yeah
5. Mortalbane (Book of Vile Darkness, p. 49) Add 2d6 damage to that soulreaving aura and get 10 hp per killed enemy.
6. Supernatural transformation (Savage Species, p. 39) transform your mortalbane soulreaving aura into a supernatural ability so that you can use it in a rage.


And that's about it.
when you are below 15 hp, you are raging and gain +4 str, +2 to saves, DR 2, and "Any effect that would normally apply only during your rage applies whenever your berserker strength is active." So, you have both the cold and fire subtype and immunity to damage from both, the ability to stall one effect targeted against you, and +6 constitution (although it will probably will get houseruled to +2).

When you are dropped to below -10 hp, you explode. Dealing 6d6 fire damage and 6d6 cold damage to everything in a 60foot radius. Plus a crazy secondary effect. But wait, you have a fearless destiny. So you don't get dropped below -10 damage. Oh wait! you can stall one effect for a round! Stall your fearless destiny for a round, explode, and appear in the middle of it all with a dumb look on your face at -9hp surrounded by the dead. Did you activate your swift action soulreaving aura? Cuz you can, gaining 1+2d6 (max 10) hp from every enemy dropped below zero by your explosion.

If you don't mind waiting a level for your explosion to come online, you can switch the build to berserker boar totem barbarian 4, battle dancer 1, crusader 1 to gain a 5 point delayed damage pool, and then take devoted bulwark, and faith unswerving feats to get a free attack when you die. And, if you have a vampire touch sort of weapon, you both die and remain alive if you nab enough hitpoints from your strike.

[Blue Jay]

When you are dropped to below -10 hp, you explode. Dealing 6d6 fire damage and 6d6 cold damage to everything in a 60foot radius. Plus a crazy secondary effect. But wait, you have a fearless destiny. So you don't get dropped below -10 damage. Oh wait! you can stall one effect for a round! Stall your fearless destiny for a round, explode, and appear in the middle of it all with a dumb look on your face at -9hp surrounded by the dead. Did you activate your swift action soulreaving aura? Cuz you can, gaining 1+2d6 (max 10) hp from every enemy dropped below zero by your explosion.

This combo is hilarious! But I don't see how it's supposed to work.

I mean, Mad Foam Rager only lets you delay things that are used against you. It's kind of hard to argue that Fearless Destiny is being used against you in this combo.

And even if that was valid, it's ultimately just a causality violation, which begs a lot of classical scifi questions about what happens when you change the past; e.g., if you "undo" your drop to -10 hp, shouldn't that also "undo" the Final Strike that happened because you dropped to -10 hp?

Also, an added complication is that Final Strike says only true resurrection, miracle or wish can bring you back after you've blown up.

[PrismCat21]

Won't work. I'll use the limited descriptions you've provided for the abilities.



3: Final strike (Savage Species p.34) Explode when you are dropped below -10 hp by something.

Paragon Bonus feat: Protected Destiny (Races of Destiny, p. 152), Once per day, any effect that would reduce you to -10 hit points or fewer instead reduces you to -9 hit points and leaves you in a stable condition.

'Protected' Destiny lets you reroll a natural 1, 1/day, on saving throw.
'Fearless' Destiny says it reduces your HP to -9 'instead' of -10. Once you're at -10, you explode. You're dead. You have to choose whether to become stable at -9, or explode.
If you choose to use 'Fearless' Destiny to keep yourself from dying, Final Strike wouldn't activate until you got killed a second time. (Final Strike is Final)


Oh wait! you can stall one effect for a round!
No you can't. Mad Foam Rager says, As an immediate action, you can choose to delay the effect of a single attack, spell, or ability used against you.
It is not a free delay for anything you want. Fearless Destiny, Protected Destiny, and Final Strike are not used against you.

Strongheart Halfling would not be an option for you. Heroic Destiny, Fearless Destiny, and Protected Destiny are Human/Half-Human feats. Halflings are not part Human in anyway. (Unless DM claims otherwise for their specific campaign world.=Houserule/Homebrew)

You have not listed how or at what level you would take Fearless Destiny/Protected Destiny. You've only listed one.

What is Heroic Destiny being used for?

What is Protected Destiny being used for?

Berserker Strength Alternate Class Feature: "If you select this class feature, you do not gain rage (or any later improvements to that class feature)."
Frozen Berserker Prerequisite: Ability to rage. - You cannot take it.
Blazing Berserker Prerequisite: Ability to rage - You cannot take it.

Final Strike Prerequisite: Acid, air, cold, earth, electricity, fire, or water subtype.
Even if you were able to take either or both Frozen and/or Blazing Berserker, you would not have the required subtype to take Final Strike, as you only gain the subtype when you rage. You do not actually posses the subtype's. It would be like someone casting a spell on themselves to meet a feat prerequisite. - However, it's 'possible' you could convince a permissible DM to allow it, but that would be a houserule.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm tired of writing this up.

[daremetoidareyo]

the last line of berserker rage allows for feats that affect rage to affect berserker rage.

I'll edit the bit about halflings and direct them to use the luck feats.

Final strike renders your "corpse" to be unraisable. you aren't a corpse if you're alive but dying.

"against" is not a game defined term. Maybe Nova doesn't want to fulfill his destiny.

[PrismCat21]

the last line of berserker rage allows for feats that affect rage to affect berserker rage.

I'll edit the bit about halflings and direct them to use the luck feats.

Final strike renders your "corpse" to be unraisable. you aren't a corpse if you're alive but dying.

*sigh*

Any effect that would normally apply only during your rage applies whenever your berserker strength is active.
If you had any Feats that affected rage, yes, they would apply. That is not the issue.


If you select this class feature, you do not gain rage (or any later improvements to that class feature).

Prerequisite: Ability to rage.

Prerequisite: Ability to rage.
The issue is that you cannot take the appropriate Feats.


When you are killed (that is, when your hit points drop to -10 or lower), your body explodes in a final strike, a blast of elemental destruction according to the table below.

A final strike renders your corpse unsuitable for raise dead or resurrection spells. Only true resurrection, miracle, or wish can restore life.
If you explode due to Final Strike. YOU. ARE. DEAD.
If you use Fearless Destiny to reduce your HP to -9 instead of -10, you do not explode. Final Strike will do nothing.



"against" is not a game defined term.
Really? Well guess what, "corpse" is not a game defined term. I looked in both the Index and Glossary of the Player's Handbook. I guess you can't use it to defend Final Strike.
RAW and RAI say that you're wrong. Get over it.

[daremetoidareyo]

stuff with unentitled nasty attitude

I'd appreciate if you conducted yourself with better decorum.

[Cenric]

I dnt think it works in E6.... BUT!!! Frenzied berserker 4 gets deathless frenzy which lets you not die below -10.

So you'd need to take damage down to -10, while frenzying, this will trigger the final strike (they obviously meant when you die, but Raw for fun).

Then keep fighting until frenzy wears off, when protected destiny activates. Now instead of falling over dead at -100 hp, youre at -9.

Granted, this takes 10 levels just to reach frenzied berserker 4, but it could be a fun joke build

Edit: hmm after rereading protected destiny, i dont know if you can opt to have it not happen on the initial -10 hit and instead use it later when frenzy is expiring

[daremetoidareyo]

I dnt think it works in E6.... BUT!!! Frenzied berserker 4 gets deathless frenzy which lets you not die below -10.

So you'd need to take damage down to -10, while frenzying, this will trigger the final strike (they obviously meant when you die, but Raw for fun).

Then keep fighting until frenzy wears off, when protected destiny activates. Now instead of falling over dead at -100 hp, youre at -9.

Granted, this takes 10 levels just to reach frenzied berserker 4, but it could be a fun joke build

Edit: hmm after rereading protected destiny, i dont know if you can opt to have it not happen on the initial -10 hit and instead use it later when frenzy is expiring

nice find! just need to squeeze in a healing method that can activate in a frenzy to return above -10

[Darrin]

Rageclaws soulmeld can also be used to expand your negative hit points below -10, -3 per essentia. So with something like Expanded Soulmeld Capacity... could get down to -19 maybe?

[Doctor Awkward]

Final Strike Prerequisite: Acid, air, cold, earth, electricity, fire, or water subtype.
Even if you were able to take either or both Frozen and/or Blazing Berserker, you would not have the required subtype to take Final Strike, as you only gain the subtype when you rage. You do not actually posses the subtype's. It would be like someone casting a spell on themselves to meet a feat prerequisite. - However, it's 'possible' you could convince a permissible DM to allow it, but that would be a houserule.

Not saying I agree this build works as intended... but the quoted statement is incorrect.

The general rule on prerequisites is that characters may take any feat or prestige class for which they meet the prerequisites, regardless of how they meet them, unless the thing they want to take specifically says otherwise. If you lose access to a prerequisite for a feat, then you cannot use the feat until the prerequisite is restored.

If a Barbarian reaches 13 Strength when he rages, then he can take Power Attack. He can then only use it while he is raging (or wearing a strength boosting magic item.)

A druid can wild shape into something with several natural attacks and take Improved Natural Attack for one of them. Or the Multiattack feat. He can then only use those feats when Wild Shaped.

And so on.

[PrismCat21]

The general rule on prerequisites is that characters may take any feat or prestige class for which they meet the prerequisites, regardless of how they meet them, unless the thing they want to take specifically says otherwise. If you lose access to a prerequisite for a feat, then you cannot use the feat until the prerequisite is restored.

And that's where we have the issue. It's a generally accepted rule that makes a lot of sense. That doesn't mean it's an actual rule. - It's generally acceptable to ignore multiclass penalties, but they still exist as a rule.

The sections on Feats and Prestige classes use slightly different language.

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat.

Unlike the basic classes found in the Player’s Handbook, characters must meet requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class.
To me, 'having' is more of a passive possession, while 'meeting' could be temporary.
They are close in meaning, and I believe was 'intended' to mean the same thing. I just don't believe they do.

I know that Complete Warrior and Complete Arcana both have something about meeting the prerequisites for Prestige Classes with temporary effects. I know of no official source that says the same for Feats. The only thing I've ever found is on the FAQ, which cannot be used as an official source.
If you have an official source that says otherwise, I will be glad to read it. I have simply not seen one yet.


Just to be clear, in my games I do not have much of a problem allowing feats with temporary effects. But I believe it's DM permission territory only.

[Falontani]

While it doesn't work here as written I love the concept! Now I just need to figure out a way to grant all my summoned creatures a bonus feat and the ability to get the cold and fire subtypes

[Blue Jay]

the last line of berserker rage allows for feats that affect rage to affect berserker strength.

I think this is technically not supported by RAW, but I would personally allow Berserker Strength to qualify you for Rage feats (as long as the feats still make sense with Berserker Strength).

Personally, I think the rest of your build is legal. It's just that I don't think the combo works.


Final strike renders your "corpse" to be unraisable. you aren't a corpse if you're alive but dying.

Okay, so I didn't explain myself well there. As I see it, there are two possibilities to explain how your proposed combo works: (1) It brings you back to life one round after you died, or (2) it retroactively prevents a death that happened in the previous round.

The first interpretation is problematic, because the Final Strike feat has the line that says "Only true resurrection, wish or miracle can restore your life." So, if your combo works by bringing you back to life, then I think it should just fizzle because Fearless Destiny is not on the list of things that can bring you back to life after a Final Strike.

The second interpretation has different problems, because retroactive prevention is an oxymoron. When you drop to -10 hp, there are two consequences: (a) you die, and (b) you explode. What seems troubling to me is, if Fearless Destiny can retroactively make it so you never dropped below -10 hp, then why does it not undo all the consequences of that? Shouldn't it also undo your Final Strike?

But Savage Species is notorious for poorly-worded and antiquated rules text, so I think RAI has to be emphasized over RAW. Another example of poor wording is the part where Final Strike says you have to be killed, and then defines "killed" as "your hit points drop to -10 or lower." It's pretty obvious what the intention of that was: when you die, you blow up. For someone who doesn't die at -10 hp, the definition of "killed" should be adjusted. But, if you don't actually die when your Final Strike is set off, you would actually be subject to the damage yourself, because of the way it's worded (obviously, Nova doesn't care, because he's immune; but still).


"against" is not a game defined term. Maybe Nova doesn't want to fulfill his destiny.

Willful misinterpretation is not fair, man.

[Doctor Awkward]

And that's where we have the issue. It's a generally accepted rule that makes a lot of sense. That doesn't mean it's an actual rule. - It's generally acceptable to ignore multiclass penalties, but they still exist as a rule.

The sections on Feats and Prestige classes use slightly different language.


Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat.

To me, 'having' is more of a passive possession, while 'meeting' could be temporary.
They are close in meaning, and I believe was 'intended' to mean the same thing. I just don't believe they do.


Right it does say "have".
Luckily we have definitions in the Player's Handook on what "have" means:

From page 10 of the Player's Handbook:
Ability Scores:
"Over time, the ability scores your character starts with can change. Ability scores can increase with no limit. Points at which ability changes occur include the following:


Add 1 point to any score upon attaining 4th level and at every fourth level your character attains thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level).
Many spells and magical effects temporarily increase or decrease ability scores. The ray of enfeeblement spell reduces a creature’s Strength, and the bull’s strength spell increases it.
Several magic items improve ability scores as long as the character is using them. For example, gloves of dexterity improve the wearer’s Dexterity score. (Magic items are described in the Dungeon Master’s Guide.) Note that a magic item of this type can’t change an ability score by more than +6."



All of those changes to ability scores are treated as equivalent under the rules. This indicates that any time your ability scores have changed, for any reason, you are considered to be in possession of your new score. If a Ray of Enfeeblement drops your Strength below 13, you can no longer Power Attack. If, upon leveling, you place 1 point into your Dexterity and bring it to a 15, you qualify for Two-Weapon Fighting. If you are a 15th level cleric with 14 Wisdom who wears a Periapt of Wisdom +4, you have 18 Wisdom and may prepare 8th level spells.





I know that Complete Warrior and Complete Arcana both have something about meeting the prerequisites for Prestige Classes with temporary effects.
I can only assume you are referring to this:

Meeting Class Requirements: It’s possible for a character
to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position
where the character no longer qualifies to be a member of the
class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character
death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important
ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible
to advance farther in a prestige class.
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a
prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features
or other special abilities granted by the class. The character
retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as
any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses
that the class provided.

That "rule" causes huge problems if you apply it globally to all of 3rd Edition. Notably, Dragon Disciple changes your type to dragon at level 10, thus causing you become ineligible for the class as one of the prerequisites is "Any non-dragon". And since you are ineligible for the class you lose your class feature which turned you into a dragon and you now qualify for the class again, so you regain your class features and lose the dragon type, thus causing you to be ineligible for the class... ad infinitum. However, that blurb is only present in the Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane books. It appears nowhere else; not the Rules Compendium, nor the Dungeon Master's Guide, which is arguably the primary source for the very concept of prestige classes in general. The language of the DMG that you quoted earlier says the following: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm)


Unlike the basic classes found in the Player’s Handbook, characters must meet requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement (see page 58 of the Player’s Handbook) apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class.

In the past that was pointed out to me as the "first step" rule. So according to the Dungeon Master’s Guide, once you take that first step all bets are off. You can lose the requirement, and you not only keep the class features, you also retain the right to continue taking levels in the class.

In my games, you must only continually meet prestige class requirements for classes found in Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane, since those are the only two books which contain that specific instruction. In the case of other classes, their book serves as the primary source for them, and you must only meet whatever requirements they tell you that you need to meet. Especially since the DMG was not the only book to print prestige classes that play badly with that rule.



I know of no official source that says the same for Feats. The only thing I've ever found is on the FAQ, which cannot be used as an official source.
If you have an official source that says otherwise, I will be glad to read it. I have simply not seen one yet.

While the FAQ is in no way authoritative, and has no ability to change the rules, it is most certainly official. It is a first-party document produced by Wizards of the Coast and is to this day still found on their website.

The purpose of the FAQ is to provide clarifications to rules ambiguities, such as whether or not temporary effects allow you to meet prerequisites for feats. And it does just that on page 46.

The reason FAQ causes problems because there are several times where the author(s) pulls things out of absolutely nowhere and tries to pretend like it is errata instead of just clarifications and suggestions. And per the actual errata, whenever two official sources contradict each other on a rule, the primary source takes precedence. The FAQ is not the primary source on anything, so even in cases where it is correct you still have to look up the primary source to make sure that they don't contradict.

[Crake]

Rageclaws soulmeld can also be used to expand your negative hit points below -10, -3 per essentia. So with something like Expanded Soulmeld Capacity... could get down to -19 maybe?


I dnt think it works in E6.... BUT!!! Frenzied berserker 4 gets deathless frenzy which lets you not die below -10.

So you'd need to take damage down to -10, while frenzying, this will trigger the final strike (they obviously meant when you die, but Raw for fun).

Then keep fighting until frenzy wears off, when protected destiny activates. Now instead of falling over dead at -100 hp, youre at -9.

Granted, this takes 10 levels just to reach frenzied berserker 4, but it could be a fun joke build

Edit: hmm after rereading protected destiny, i dont know if you can opt to have it not happen on the initial -10 hit and instead use it later when frenzy is expiring

Both of these are ignoring the fact that the trigger for final strike isn't -10 hp, it's dying. The clause regarding -10 hit points is a reminder that -10 hp is when you normally die. If you do not die at -10 hit points, you don't trigger final strike at -10 hit points, you trigger it whenever you would normally die.

You also kinda... you know... explode, so even if it did trigger at -10, you would then be eviscerated by your own explosion, so a that point you're definitely dead.