Shadow conjuration and Creation?

[Promethean]

I'm a bit stumped on how shadow conjuration(greater)/Shadowcraft Mage interacts with spells like minor/major creation. What does the spell mean by 20% "reality"? I mean that if you make a stick with Minor shadow creation and wack it does 20% damage if they don't believe, But what if you make a wooden shield? does it have a 20% chance of giving you the AC? Do you only get 20% Of the AC? Can people Walk through a Shadow-created wall because it's only 20% there? What does the Term "reality" refer to?

What about when Shadowcraft Mage builds end up with things like 120% reality? What happens when a shadow wooden shield is more real than a wooden shield? Is the Shadow one different in some way? Does 120% Real Wood do anything different? Does the fact that something is shadow-made give it any weird properties? Would a Permanent Shadow-Tree still Grow?

[Darth Ultron]

There is a lot of vague stuff in the rules here.




Shadows are a special case. A shadow is partly real and can affect an object just as anything real can. Shadow spells that have a reduced effect when disbelieved generally have reduced effects against objects because objects can't believe them. Check the description of the shadow spell in question to be sure. For example, objects automatically are assumed to make their saving throws against the various shadow conjuration and shadow evocation spells presented in the Player's Handbook. In other cases, follow the rules for object saving throws against spells (in most cases an unattended, nonmagical object doesn't get a saving throw against a spell).







The spells that do damage are simple enough: If the target makes their Wil save vs the Shadow spell, then the target only takes 20% of the damage from the attack. And if it is a non damaging attack, it only has a 20% of happening.

Spells that do other things, or if you use the Shadow spell to make an object is a bit unclear. The rules say things made are only at 20%, but don't really say what that means. So the rules are no help here.

And the rules say nothing about the 120% stuff, so you have two options:

1.Cap things at 100%
2.Allow the shadow spells to make things 'more powerful' then the normal (whatever)

Again, the rules don't say anything about weird shadow stuff.

[Jack_Simth]

In general, nondamaging effects are 20% likely for nonbelievers. So that shield has a 20% chance of giving you 2 points of AC (possibly vs. any given attack) from someone who recognizes it for what it is. And if the attacker has SR, you'll have to roll SR penetration for it to have any affect on the attacker, regardless of whether or not the attacker recognizes the illusion.

It gets REALLY fun with Wall of Stone. It's an Instant effect, so there's no magic there anymore. But it looks different to some people than others (disbelievers see it as shadowstuff with a transparent outline), golems will walk straight through it (permits Spell Resistance for 0 effect), and if you don't believe in it you've got a decent chance to fall through (which is really fun when you use a Greater Shadow Conjouration Wall of Stone to cover an open pit - anyone stepping on it is interacting, and that makes SR or a good Will save cause bad things).

Really, though, when used outside of 'standard' Summoning / Evocation effects, things get 'poorly defined' so the person you really need to ask is your DM.

[Anthrowhale]

It would be kind of cool to make a planet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?504415-Terraforming-planetoids-in-a-self-sufficient-fashion/page3) out of shadow instantaneous conjuration(creation) spells that is 0% real. Is there any way to reduce the reality of shadow spells?

[Promethean]

In general, nondamaging effects are 20% likely for nonbelievers. So that shield has a 20% chance of giving you 2 points of AC (possibly vs. any given attack) from someone who recognizes it for what it is. And if the attacker has SR, you'll have to roll SR penetration for it to have any affect on the attacker, regardless of whether or not the attacker recognizes the illusion.

It gets REALLY fun with Wall of Stone. It's an Instant effect, so there's no magic there anymore. But it looks different to some people than others (disbelievers see it as shadowstuff with a transparent outline), golems will walk straight through it (permits Spell Resistance for 0 effect), and if you don't believe in it you've got a decent chance to fall through (which is really fun when you use a Greater Shadow Conjouration Wall of Stone to cover an open pit - anyone stepping on it is interacting, and that makes SR or a good Will save cause bad things).

Really, though, when used outside of 'standard' Summoning / Evocation effects, things get 'poorly defined' so the person you really need to ask is your DM.

Note to self, hire a gnome shadow-illusionist to make the floors of my evil lair. :smalltongue:

[Celestia]

What about when Shadowcraft Mage builds end up with things like 120% reality? What happens when a shadow wooden shield is more real than a wooden shield? Is the Shadow one different in some way? Does 120% Real Wood do anything different? Does the fact that something is shadow-made give it any weird properties? Would a Permanent Shadow-Tree still Grow?
If they fail their will save, it does 100% damage. If they succeed, it does 120% damage.
Obviously.

[Jack_Simth]

Note to self, hire a gnome shadow-illusionist to make the floors of my evil lair. :smalltongue:

I used that on some players once. One of them found it hilarious (the rogue that failed the save - for him, it was just another section of floor, there was no trap), another got miffed (the Wizard that beat the save and fell through), the other two didn't care (BSF failed save, Cleric passed but made the % chance to still walk on it).