[3.5] 0-level Spells

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

Just curious: outside of Detect Magic and Read Magic, what 0-level spells actually see use at mid-high levels in your games?

Cheers - T

[ViperMagnum357]

Hey all,

Just curious: outside of Detect Magic and Read Magic, what 0-level spells actually see use at mid-high levels in your games?

Cheers - T

Prestidigitation, Mending, Message, Open/Close, and Light.

[johnbragg]

Rogue types love mage hand.

Prestigiditation is always a favorite at any level.

Message comes in handy when you're stealthing.

Every once in a while someone remembers that guidance is a free +1 on someone else's skill check.

[Darth Ultron]

All of them, except maybe the boring attack ones.

Prestidigitation and mage's hand have endless uses, even at high levels. Mage hand can move dangerous things at any level, for example. Light is always useful.

Really 0 level spells are like any other spells...it depends on how the game is played.

[WhamBamSam]

I rather like No Light (BoVD). Darkvision isn't hard for enemies to come by, but you might catch someone with their pants down if they don't expect to need it. Even if they can see through it, it's handy if you need darkness for HiPS or what have you.

[Covenant12]

Cure Minor Wounds to autostabilize if you can't do it spontaneously. A druid should have at least 2 of those. Open/close is underrated. Everything else I've used had been mentioned.

[TotallyNotEvil]

Amanuensis. Quite the gem, honestly.

[ben-zayb]

Sonic Snap and Ray of Frost for rather obvious reasons.

[Inevitability]

Detect Poison is pretty neat. Even if you're immune to poison, it can be used to detect attempts to poison you, as well as hazards where the poison isn't the biggest threat, like venomous creatures and poisoned blade traps.

[Mordaedil]

Sonic Snap and Ray of Frost for rather obvious reasons.

What exactly is the advantage to Ray of Frost to Acid Splash?

[Erik the Green]

1) Launch Item stays useful for quite a while, for at least some circumstances. And, there are so many amusing things you can mystically punt at people's heads, weak spots in fortifications, vulnerable mechanisms in traps, etc, etc. Cheap, too, apart from the cost of the alchemical whatever.

2) If Pathfinder is in it, Spark just for the sheer style points, whether it be a sorcerer lighting his (or her) Man With No Name cigarillo with a flick of one thumb or a wizard lighting his (or her) elaborate and probably magical pipe ditto


Hey all,

Just curious: outside of Detect Magic and Read Magic, what 0-level spells actually see use at mid-high levels in your games?

Cheers - T

[weckar]

I find that Read Magic never gets used, actually.

Caltrops, on the other hand, always pops up. Loaded with metamagic.

[Mordaedil]

I find that Read Magic never gets used, actually.

Caltrops, on the other hand, always pops up.

If you never have to use Read Magic, I guess your DM is just giving you finished identified scrolls or you don't have to spend resources on it.

Which is fine, but I'd want to know such things ahead of time before deciding whether I should bother getting Read Magic.

[weckar]

We actually just don't find scrolls ever.

[Jormengand]

I quite like caltrops even without the fun-times implicit in loading fell drain onto them - it's a decent, scaling battlefield control spell, and unless your enemies have been pumping their autohypnosis checks, the caltrop injuries are, AFAICR, impossible to resist short of not getting hit. Not difficult to heal, no, but if multiple enemies are spending their actions on in-combat healing just to get rid of the caltrop wound that's probably a win. As attack cantrips go, it's pretty swell.

I've also seen a lot of use come out of ghost sound, especially since people may actually run away from the sound of the roaring dire tiger even if they don't have a condition that says they do.

Prestidigitation, mending and create water are pretty neat, too. Some of the others that people have mentioned. Honestly, DU's summary of "All of them except maybe the boring attack ones" is honestly not far off.

[Telonius]

Create Water. I once saw it used to literally flush an enemy Wizard out of hiding. (He was very upset at the fact that his spellbook was soaked).

[Thurbane]

What exactly is the advantage to Ray of Frost to Acid Splash?

I'm assuming for metamagic like Fell Drain...

[BowStreetRunner]

Stick from spell compendium is instantaneous and can be used for things like posting signs, hiding something on the underside of a chair, or even making it look like something you just broke is still in once piece.

[ayvango]

prestidigitation is good for role play. You could forget about bathing and cleaning and look fresh even after intensive nights full of battles and sneaking throw mud.

mending is for fixing precious magic items before they would fall apart. If there is single hit point left it is still possible to fix.

read magic and detect magic for obvious use. If rogue uses ring of invisibility to stalk wizard single 0-level spell could protect the wizard. Since ring of invisibility still gives magic aura. Detect magic requires concentration but you could use your familiar to maintain it.

minor cure is good for stabilizing but in mid levels become obsolete since cheapest cure potions count nothing about WBL.

create water make drinking water management obsolete, you are not bound to springs.

Acid Splash is essential for fell animate.

[Vizzerdrix]

Launch Bolt is a personal favorite of mine, with propper metamagic of course.

[ben-zayb]

What exactly is the advantage to Ray of Frost to Acid Splash?
I'm having trouble parsing this. Do you mean the advantage:

of using these 2 cantrips? That'd be for cheap negative levels or cheap fear escalation (possibly combined with metamagic reducers and/or Arcane Fusion)
of RoF to Acid Splash? Advantage rays in gemeral, like that it can be split, possibly even lens of ray-widening amd other ridiculous ray-based shenanigans. Also, it can hit both acid-immune and cold-immune targets (except for those with Cold subtype)

[Matrota]

Fleeting Fame from Dragon 326 is really nice imo. +2 bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate for 1 round/level. For a cantrip, this is pretty useful.

[Mordaedil]

I'm having trouble parsing this. Do you mean the advantage:

of using these 2 cantrips? That'd be for cheap negative levels or cheap fear escalation (possibly combined with metamagic reducers and/or Arcane Fusion)
of RoF to Acid Splash? Advantage rays in gemeral, like that it can be split, possibly even lens of ray-widening amd other ridiculous ray-based shenanigans. Also, it can hit both acid-immune and cold-immune targets (except for those with Cold subtype)

Sorry, I think I was a bit distracted when I wrote that post.

I meant the second one, but still good answers. I didn't think of splitting the rays.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Launch Bolt is a personal favorite of mine, with propper metamagic of course.Note that launch bolt doesn't specify the size of the crossbow bolt fired. Add the sizing property, turn a bunch of bolts Colossal, and enjoy the 6d8 points of damage per bolt. Add Chain Spell to fire a dozen or so per round.

Also, no light combined with a ring of the darkhidden gives you complete invisibility to everyone without true seeing or touch sight. Sure, they can see the big black blot surrounding your space, but they can't target you. At all. AoEs are about the only things that can reliably affect you, so just pump your Reflex save and invest in evasion to mitigate that little problem.

[ben-zayb]

I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that someone thought No Light is cantrip level.

[Mordaedil]

Because it isn't No Light itself that is problematic, as it is countered by Darkvision or anything stronger.

[umbergod]

I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that someone thought No Light is cantrip level.

It is a cantrip, for everyone that has it on their list, except Bards.

[Jormengand]

It is a cantrip, for everyone that has it on their list, except Bards.

Yes, that's the point. He's having trouble understanding why anyone thought that was a good idea.

[umbergod]

Yes, that's the point. He's having trouble understanding why anyone thought that was a good idea.

For the same reason light is a cantrip? If your entire party has darkvision, then no light is a perfectly viable tactic to blind any enemies without darkvision

[WhamBamSam]

Because it isn't No Light itself that is problematic, as it is countered by Darkvision or anything stronger.That's as much a feature as it is a bug. If you have Darkvision, and you're fighting humans who didn't expect to need it that day, you might catch them with their pants down. Even against things that have Darkvision, if you're outside the radius of their Darkvision with No Light around you, that too creates a situation where you can see through the darkness, but your enemy can't.


It is a cantrip, for everyone that has it on their list, except Bards.I think he means he's surprised that a designer thought it appropriately leveled as a cantrip.

[Jormengand]

For the same reason light is a cantrip? If your entire party has darkvision, then no light is a perfectly viable tactic to blind any enemies without darkvision

Yes, because that's definitely something that light can also do: blinding every enemy in combat. That seems really fair and balanced for a cantrip.

[ayvango]

I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that someone thought No Light is cantrip level.
Just another example of 3.0 edition craziness. In the 3.5 edition the lowsest darkness spell that gives actual darkness with total concealment is 3rd level blacklight.

[umbergod]

Yes, because that's definitely something that light can also do: blinding every enemy in combat. That seems really fair and balanced for a cantrip.

Actually, depending on the monsters youre up against, light CAN blind them.


Just another example of 3.0 edition craziness. In the 3.5 edition the lowsest darkness spell that gives actual darkness with total concealment is 3rd level blacklight.

Darkness is a 2nd level spell that gives concealment, and blacklight itself actually doesnt mention total concealment in its description

[ayvango]

Darkness is a 2nd level spell that gives concealment
20% miss chance is not what you expect from something called "darkness". You expect that darkness just blocks all normal vision: no light - no vision. But you should wait until 3rd level to actually block vision.

[umbergod]

20% miss chance is not what you expect from something called "darkness". You expect that darkness just blocks all normal vision: no light - no vision. But you should wait until 3rd level to actually block vision.

Blacklight still lacks any mention of concealment, total or otherwise. Darkness mentions it, and lists a miss chance (20%) whereas blacklight does not. In addition, blacklight is 1 round/level duration, and divine only, whilst darkness is 1 min/level duration, available to arcane and divine casters

[ayvango]

It is available for Wizards on 3rd level.

It creates total darkness and you could check rulebook for effects of total darkness. full concealment is on of it. Plus the spell description says specifically that it is impenetrable to darkvision. The real weakness is that it allows Will save.

[umbergod]

It is available for Wizards on 3rd level.

It creates total darkness and you could check rulebook for effects of total darkness. full concealment is on of it. Plus the spell description says specifically that it is impenetrable to darkvision. The real weakness is that it allows Will save.

Haha youre correct! Thats what i get for skimming the srd and assuming it'd contain relavent info in the spell description

[Cicciograna]

Let's be honest here, 0th level spells are fascinating and fun to use, because they taste like magic without having the world-shattering implications of 8th and 9th level spells.

[ben-zayb]

Actually, the lowest level absolute darkness spell/power that I know of would be Control Light, but that's Duration: Concentration.

[Vizzerdrix]

Note that launch bolt doesn't specify the size of the crossbow bolt fired. Add the sizing property, turn a bunch of bolts Colossal, and enjoy the 6d8 points of damage per bolt. Add Chain Spell to fire a dozen or so per round.

The spell does say as if you fired the bolt, and that any properties of the bolt apply, so I've never been convinced that works. (I would like to be though)

My favorite thing was to launch splitting bolts in huge vollies. It has been a long time, but I think the idea was to use arcane theses, reach, chained, twinned, occular, and invisable, along with a meta magic reducer or two. Then use the feat that gave access to a domains spells to grab the war domain. I think it ended up being CL+1×4×2 bolts fired with one spell. Ate a huge amount of wbl and feats, but was super fun so worth every gp.

[Hiro Quester]

Create Water can be used in many creative and useful ways.

My druid PC always kept a few Create Water spells prepared. I often used it as a cheap detect invisible, to make it rain in an area, so we can spot invisible footprints in the splashing, and track wet footprints out of the area.

Also used it to create distractions (make a splashing noise elsewhere), and to wet things that someone didn't want wetted (never thought to wet a wizard's spell book, though--that's a good idea), put out fires, weigh down empty chests, create a scrying pool, create mud, wash off (create a shower right above myself or a dirty friend), make a surface slippery (especially if it's ice or grease), dilute acid.....

[Mordaedil]

At what table does "I fire a colossal bolt using my cantrip" fly at? I'd really like to know so I can slap the DM around.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

At what table does "I fire a colossal bolt using my cantrip" fly at? I'd really like to know so I can slap the DM around.You have heard of Tippy, right?

[Mordaedil]

You have heard of Tippy, right?

Yeah, I accept tabletop theory for what it is, a theory. Or do DMs actually allow Tippy?

I mean, I don't mind that it is funny to point at and laugh, but it's not very helpful for actual games at a table, is it?

[Inevitability]

Yeah, I accept tabletop theory for what it is, a theory. Or do DMs actually allow Tippy?

I mean, I don't mind that it is funny to point at and laugh, but it's not very helpful for actual games at a table, is it?

Maxi's saying that Emperor Tippy, the person, plays at a table that actually allows this kind of stuff.

The phrase: "Lists of feats that can be switched out as a free action." is actually something Tippy used while describing some of the allowed shenanigans.

[Mordaedil]

That's ludicrous.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That's ludicrous.It's also quite doable. The psychic reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) power can be contingencied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/contingencyPsionic.htm) quite easily. You can also use the Link Power feat to get a psychic reformation at the beginning of your next turn using this round's standard, or swift, or even immediate action.

[ross]

I'm having trouble parsing this. Do you mean the advantage:

of using these 2 cantrips? That'd be for cheap negative levels or cheap fear escalation (possibly combined with metamagic reducers and/or Arcane Fusion)
of RoF to Acid Splash? Advantage rays in gemeral, like that it can be split, possibly even lens of ray-widening amd other ridiculous ray-based shenanigans. Also, it can hit both acid-immune and cold-immune targets (except for those with Cold subtype)

How can a cold spell hurt enemies that are immune to cold?

[WhamBamSam]

How can a cold spell hurt enemies that are immune to cold?Piercing Cold I suspect.

[ross]

At what table does "I fire a colossal bolt using my cantrip" fly at? I'd really like to know so I can slap the DM around.

what's the problem? it's in the the rules and it works

[Jay R]

In one game I play, if four cantrips get used, three of them will be Prestidigitation.

In another game, I'm playing a gnome illusionist. For him, Silent Image is a cantrip.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

In another game, I'm laying a gnome illusionist.Oh.

Oh, my.

https://i.giphy.com/media/H7iEm8CKI9ZAs/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[Mordaedil]

what's the problem? it's in the the rules and it works

Actually, it's absent from the rules. That's the point, it isn't very specific, besides mentioning a light crossbow.