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KOLE
2018-01-26, 02:13 AM
Long time lurker, first time poster!

I finally picked up Volo’s guide, mostly for the playable monster creatures, which I personally think is a really cool concept. I’m also a big fan of Bugbears (Klargh may have had something to do with that...), and after discussing the upcoming campaign with my DM I have a thumbs up to use a Bugbear with the character story I have. I got excited, but after actually looking at the race itself... I’m fairly underwhelmed. I feel like they purposely designed this race to be a one-trick pony. It’s obviously a great combo with Assassin for that surprise damage and sort-of-free-disengage-on-their-turn. But other than that? There isn’t much here. I always hate to receive boosts to both Dex AND Str because outside of barbarian I see those as mutually exclusive.

I guess what I’m asking is, outside of Assassin, what role do you think a Bugbear PC would fit best? Our DM generally likes to throw challenges our way, so as long as we can explain certain character choices IC, he’s cool with a little powergaming.

Obviously, a bugbear is meant for melee or youre wasting your free disengage on your turn. I know fighters are always popular and that may not be a bad choice here, perhaps polearms to really exploit that reach? What do you all think?

Arkhios
2018-01-26, 02:23 AM
Long time lurker, first time poster!

I finally picked up Volo’s guide, mostly for the playable monster creatures, which I personally think is a really cool concept. I’m also a big fan of Bugbears (Klargh may have had something to do with that...), and after discussing the upcoming campaign with my DM I have a thumbs up to use a Bugbear with the character story I have. I got excited, but after actually looking at the race itself... I’m fairly underwhelmed. I feel like they purposely designed this race to be a one-trick pony. It’s obviously a great combo with Assassin for that surprise damage and sort-of-free-disengage-on-their-turn. But other than that? There isn’t much here. I always hate to receive boosts to both Dex AND Str because outside of barbarian I see those as mutually exclusive.

I guess what I’m asking is, outside of Assassin, what role do you think a Bugbear PC would fit best? Our DM generally likes to throw challenges our way, so as long as we can explain certain character choices IC, he’s cool with a little powergaming.

Obviously, a bugbear is meant for melee or youre wasting your free disengage on your turn. I know fighters are always popular and that may not be a bad choice here, perhaps polearms to really exploit that reach? What do you all think?

Not necessarily. A free disengage on your turn just because your race provides it, doesn't mean it has to used all the time, every turn. I could definitely see a bugbear "skirmisher" ranger with archery style. Free Disengage means you can more easily stay away from melee and keep shooting at your enemies. Or throwing. Because you get a bonus to both str and dex you can more easily optimise for better AC in medium armor, for example, while still relying on melee or thrown weapons. Bugbear makes for an excellent switch-hitter type of character that way. It gives you more room to improvise in combat.

JellyPooga
2018-01-26, 02:49 AM
Getting a Str and Dex boost is far from redundant; any melee character wants a half-decent Dex, if only for Dex saves and Initiative. Str+Dex is also good for anyone planning on wearing medium armour. The Bugbears +1 Dex is perfect for obtaining a 14 Dex efficiently with point buy. That guides us a little; who wears medium armour?

Valour Bard could be an interesting choice; play up the "boogyman" aspect of Bugbears, grab yourself a handful of stealth and fear based spells (don't forget Intimidation Expertise!), fluff your Bardic Inspiration as something more like Intimidating Motivation and mix it up as an all-rounder. Point buy something like Str:14+2, Dex:13+1, Con:14, Int:8, Wis:11, Cha:14, picking up a +1 Wis half-feat somewhere along the line.

A Trickery Cleric could also be interesting to play up on the fear and deception inherent to Bugbear themes. Similar to Bard, with a Wisdom focus and access to better damage spells.

Druid is an intriguing choice. Moon Druid feels wasteful with two physical boosts, but a melee focused Land Druid is an option. The Druid spell list has some tidy buffs and terrain effects often don't require a Save, allowing you to skimp a little on the Wisdom. Add in stealth/surprise with some judicious Wild Shaping, add a fey spin on your race and you're all set.

Ranger is Bugbear gold. A lighter armoured skirmisher with stats that are made for switch-hitting, plus additional damage riders for your multiple attacks? Sweet sweet gold.

KOLE
2018-01-26, 03:08 AM
I could definitely see a bugbear "skirmisher" ranger with archery style. Free Disengage means you can more easily stay away from melee and keep shooting at your enemies. Or throwing. Because you get a bonus to both str and dex you can more easily optimise for better AC in medium armor, for example, while still relying on melee or thrown weapons. Bugbear makes for an excellent switch-hitter type of character that way. It gives you more room to improvise in combat.
It’s an annoying habit of mine to overlook the Ranger because everyone goes off on how bad it is, but everytime I look at the class myself without listening to the horde I always see it as a fun choice, if a little ribbon-heavy. This is actually a really intriguing idea, and makes sense given the environment Bugbears grow up in.


Druid is an intriguing choice. Moon Druid feels wasteful with two physical boosts, but a melee focused Land Druid is an option. The Druid spell list has some tidy buffs and terrain effects often don't require a Save, allowing you to skimp a little on the Wisdom. Add in stealth/surprise with some judicious Wild Shaping, add a fey spin on your race and you're all set.

Ranger is Bugbear gold. A lighter armoured skirmisher with stats that are made for switch-hitting, plus additional damage riders for your multiple attacks? Sweet sweet gold.

Your whole post had excellent insight; thank you! I personally can never seem to get excited about a bard or cleric character, but I hope someone else can benefit from that nugget. I also personally find the concept hilarious. Instead of singing a nice song and inspiring your teammate, Bugbear bard just daftly yells “Kill it, or I’ll hurt you.” And the halflinf rogue suddenly gets whole different kind of “Inspiration...” I like that it combines good optimisation with fun and interesting flavor. That should be ideal for all builds, IMO.

Your point about medium armor is spot on; I feel a little silly for not seeing the obvious now! And it really does look like ranger would be a solid bugbear choice. Maybe even gloom stalker for that extra surprise damage when it comes up.

I also thought about Druid; it makes complete sense to me flavorwise that an exile Bugbear would end up as a druid, and as I’ve only ever read up on Moon druids, ill have to look into the others more.

Thanks for the suggestions! This is exactly what I needed to help me brainstorm. If anyone else has ideas, please feel free to chime in!

MxKit
2018-01-26, 03:15 AM
Okay! I love bugbears and I want everyone to love bugbears, so let me break down the bugbear racial traits and enthuse!


Ability Score Increase. Your Strength score increases by 2, and your Dexterity score increases by 1.

This is actually a really good start! Strength and Dexterity are absolutely not mutually exclusive, my friend, and any build other than primarily-a-caster can make use out of having both of them! Barbarians you already know about, but since Strength is used to shove prone and grapple, and Dexterity is used for Initiative and (sometimes) AC, Fighters can also benefit from having both! Play a Str-based Fighter and be able to balance, be stealthy, and move quicker in combat, or play a Dex-based Fighter and be able to prone enemies more easily and grapple them if you like! Monks? They can also benefit from having some decent Strength as well as Dexterity! Paladins? Sure, it hurts a little to not start with a super high Charisma, but it's not that bad having a +1 to Dex instead for the aforementioned reasons! And oh, my friend, you have not explored the full possibilities of Rogue yet. You don't want to be an Assassin? That's super fine, because look no further than the humble Thief, and imagine how useful it can be to climb as a Rogue.


Long-Limbed. When you make a melee attack on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal.

Okay, admittedly, you need to pay close attention to this one, because this increase to your reach does not apply to attacks of opportunity. That said, this is still great! Reach weapons are super good to have, and this lets you make every weapon a reach weapon on your turn, and make every reach weapon an even reachier weapon. That's a 15-foot range for glaives, halberds, lances, pikes, and whips! (Ever wanted to do a lot of damage with a whip? Be a Kensei!) And, of course, this means you can keep a distance from enemies more easily without having to worry about disengaging, allowing you to be a slightly less tanky class and just stay on the edge of melee as much as possible! Valor or Swords Bard, Bladesinger, non-Hexblade Bladelock?


Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.

Obviously good if your table pays attention to encumbrance, but you remember how I mentioned grappling up there? Yeah, go right ahead and drag some real heavy clowns around with you. Up to two of them, if you want! Weight is not a consideration for you! (Well, it still is, but much less of one.)


Sneaky. You are proficient in the Stealth skill.

Sure, Assassins love having this. Thieves and all other Rogues also love having this. You know who else loves you having this? Assassins in your party who aren't you, and any other party members who want to occasionally be sneaky if possible. There's a reason people like pass without trace so much!


Surprise Attack. If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.

Don't want to be an Assassin? Well, congratulations, because you've basically just gotten a free dip into Assassin without having to be! You get the surprise damage whenever you can pull off surprise, so it's nice that you have that Stealth proficiency, too. For most party setups, this is a nice little ability to have for when it comes up. If you have an Assassin in your party who's not you, though? You both have even more reason to try to pull off surprising the enemy, and again, you're going to have an easier time helping make that happen!

Basically, there are a lot of ways you can go with a Bugbear, which makes me really love the race. Barbarians are golden, Valor and Swords Bards work well, Fighters have a lot to play with whether Strength-based or Dexterity-based (I'd favor Dex-based), Monks actually benefit a lot (Shadow Monk or Kensei seem the best, while Drunken Masters get even freer disengages!), Paladins would be solid, Rangers would work very well (especially Gloom Stalker and Monster Slayer, imo, thematically speaking, but Hunter and Horizon Walker too!), Thief Rogues are great for you (or, okay, any other Rogue), non-Hexblade Bladelocks would be solid, Abjurer or Bladesinger or War Wizard would be pretty dang good...

The only classes that don't work so well are Cleric, which would still work fine but is more "meh" option for Bugbears I think; Druid, which just doesn't benefit much at all from what the race gives you; and Sorcerer, who just doesn't want to be in melee basically ever. Even then, a Cleric would be fine and a Shepherd Druid who goes into melee with their summons but stays at a longer-arms-length (for the sort-of-disengage) could work well for you!

Arkhios
2018-01-26, 03:43 AM
Actually, come to think about it, Trickery Domain Cleric could be seriously fun for Bugbear, given their racial flavor.

Fun thing about clerics is, that, despite their lack of Extra Attack they play much like a paladin or - heck - a ranger, and can be just as diverse as rogues.

Dappershire
2018-01-26, 03:56 AM
Warlock.

Warlock.

GorogIrongut
2018-01-26, 04:01 AM
2 levels in barbarian... then put the rest in Gloom Stalker Ranger. You'll love it.

polymphus
2018-01-26, 06:36 AM
Sorry, when you say 'free disengage' are you mistaking it for the Goblin rules, or just really confusingly talking about the fact they've got Reach?

KOLE
2018-01-26, 06:52 AM
Sorry, when you say 'free disengage' are you mistaking it for the Goblin rules, or just really confusingly talking about the fact they've got Reach?
Notice I said “basically free disengage.” Although reach is a much better way of expressing it, I presume the primary use of long limbed is to attack well out of range, thus not having to use disengage. I understand that it only applies on the Bugbear’s turn

.
2 levels in barbarian... then put the rest in Gloom Stalker Ranger. You'll love it.

Ive actually been sitting here bored on my night shift, so I’ve had time to do a little building with ideas presented here, and I’m leaning towards a Barb multiclass of some kind, this actually sounds rad. I actually ran a dex based barb rogue last campaign and enjoyed it immensely.

Willie the Duck
2018-01-26, 08:30 AM
Having both high Dex and high Str seems like a waste only in white room exercises. I can't think of a Dex fighter build where I haven't thought, "well, since I'm not going to have a shield out if forced into melee, it's a shame I can't use a 2-handed weapon," nor a Str fighter build where I haven't thought, "I'd much rather have a bow as a ranged back-up than these short-range javelins." Throw in a DM who doesn't let you use acrobatics and athletics interchangeably, and suddenly having Str+Dex seems like a good plan.

KOLE
2018-01-26, 08:39 AM
Having both high Dex and high Str seems like a waste only in white room exercises. I can't think of a Dex fighter build where I haven't thought, "well, since I'm not going to have a shield out if forced into melee, it's a shame I can't use a 2-handed weapon," nor a Str fighter build where I haven't thought, "I'd much rather have a bow as a ranged back-up than these short-range javelins." Throw in a DM who doesn't let you use acrobatics and athletics interchangeably, and suddenly having Str+Dex seems like a good plan.

Fair point! Although I’ve always enjoyed using thrown weapons more than bows in general. Just my personal preference, though I know its not nearly as effective.

Provo
2018-01-26, 09:19 AM
Monk would benefit a lot from Bugbear.

Reach would make a great alternative to the mobile feat, which will save from spending Ki to disengage.

As others have mentioned, strength is nice for proneing which is particularly good for monks.Powerful build is flavorful. A martial artist should be strong as well as nimble.

Stealth proficiency will save you a skill to use for athletics. Surprise attack works well on a Dex based character with stealth proficiency.

The downside is that your AC will start one point lower. Mostly this means avoid the shadow monk/Warlock multiclass as it will slow your stat gain even more.

Afrodactyl
2018-01-26, 10:49 AM
I've used a bear totem bugbearian (bugbearbearian?) and a bugmonk to good effect before

TrinculoLives
2018-01-26, 01:57 PM
I'm planning playing a Bugbear Oath of the Ancients Paladin. I took Mithral armour so that I can still be sneaky in heavy armour, but apart from that I don't see foresee any problems with this "build".

(Similarly, my enjoyment of Bugbears grew out of the character of Klarg in the Adventure Zone podcast. "But you threw my wolf in the fire though!"lōl)



As others have mentioned, strength is nice for prone-ing which is particularly good for monks. -"Provo"

Of course, we must remember that a bugbear monk attacking a prone target from more than 5 feet away actually has disadvantage on his attacks.

Provo
2018-01-26, 03:33 PM
Of course, we must remember that a bugbear monk attacking a prone target from more than 5 feet away actually has disadvantage on his attacks.
Oh no, you are right. It is so easy to think of prone in terms of range or melee instead.

Derpldorf
2018-01-26, 05:50 PM
Samurai. try to get at least 11 levels in your build.

Surprise round + Fighting Spirit + Action Surge + Multiattack + Bonus damage. You temporarily polymorph into a threshing machine.

Temperjoke
2018-01-26, 06:35 PM
Even if you go with a class that doesn't rely on strength of dexterity, that just means you're free to put your weakest generated stats (whether rolled or from the array) into those categories and not have a real penalty. It might not be "optimized" but it won't be weak either.

Personally, I feel that bugbears will work best with melee-oriented classes with their features. As to which class though, it depends on your interpretation of your character. From the descriptions in Volo that are aimed more towards npc ones, bugbears won't wear heavy armor or used ranged weapons (aside from javelins), and they don't have priests. That doesn't mean that you have to play your character that way, especially if the setting you're playing in has a different background for bugbears than Volo's presents.

From the Player's Handbook, I'd go with either a ranger or a monk. If you can pick classes from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, I'd take a either a Drunken Monk, a Gloom Stalker ranger, or a Scout Rogue.

Silkensword
2018-01-27, 01:12 AM
My Gloomstalker 3 bugbear just almost one-shotted a level 6 bard if it hadnt been for his temp hp.

Hunters mark BA
attack with bugbear additional damage (greatsword is fun)
attack with dread ambusher empowered damage

leaving us at like, 8d6 +1d8 plus modifiers in the first turn of combat

EDIT: I think 9d6 but i would have to run the math once i'm sober.

KOLE
2018-01-27, 01:35 AM
My Gloomstalker 3 bugbear just almost one-shotted a level 6 bard if it hadnt been for his temp hp.

Hunters mark BA
attack with bugbear additional damage (greatsword is fun)
attack with dread ambusher empowered damage

leaving us at like, 8d6 +1d8 plus modifiers in the first turn of combat

EDIT: I think 9d6 but i would have to run the math once i'm sober.
Don’t drink and D&D.

Or, if you do, make sure everyone else at the table is too.

...Dont ask me how I know.

It really does look like ranger is a fun choice here, which meshes well since I’ve beeb wanting to try Ranger for the first time. But as people have pointed out, there’s a lot of synergy here with pretty much all the martial classes. There’s a lot of play here, and I regret thinking of the Bugbear as a one trick pony now that I see the possibilities.

Temperjoke
2018-01-27, 09:59 AM
I know I focused more on melee characters before, but that doesn't mean that bugbears couldn't be wizards either:

https://res.cloudinary.com/jerrick/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_auto,w_680/ywigtrspxd8ov3wsfcrm

I mean, Strength and Dexterity are often dump stats for wizards, so your racial scores can offset otherwise bad scores. You would really be able to take advantage of Mage Armor cast on yourself, since you'd have a better Dex score than most wizards, as well as the 6th level spell Tenser's Transformation in XGtE.

Xihirli
2018-01-27, 03:31 PM
Bugbear barbarians are fun.
They’re not as good as Goliaths or Half-orcs for CON but DEX helps with medium armor.
Of course any race that’s a good barbarian also makes a good fighter. Battlemaster Bugbears are really fun.

Barnasco
2018-12-24, 10:54 PM
I was excited about the additional reach racial trait. Adding in reach weapons, I was looking at Cavalier. Their opportunity attack options are awesome, give them a halberd and polearm master. They will attack everything, especially once they hit higher levels.

Blood of Gaea
2018-12-24, 10:57 PM
I think shadow monk would be pretty great.

FringeJacket
2018-12-24, 11:32 PM
I’ve always wanted to play a bugbear shadow monk.

Ganymede
2018-12-24, 11:41 PM
I have a thumbs up to use a Bugbear with the character story I have.

I want to hear about that.

Atavis
2018-12-25, 12:01 AM
Reach shenanigans. I have wanted to make one for a while but just haven't had the opportunity yet. I believe it goes something like this:

Bugbear
Class: Fighter Eldritch Knight
Fighting Style: Tunnel Fighter
While in your defensive stance, you can make opportunity attacks without using your reaction.

Make sure you have the Booming Blade cantrip and get Enlarge.
Feats: War Caster, Sentinel, Polearm Master

Be a large creature taking up 4 squares that has 15 foot of reach with a polearm and then cast Booming Blade with your opportunity attack every time anything enters your reach, leaves your reach, or moves more than 5 feet while in your reach.

Super cheesy but it is very cinematic.

CTurbo
2018-12-25, 02:37 AM
Reach shenanigans. I have wanted to make one for a while but just haven't had the opportunity yet. I believe it goes something like this:

Bugbear
Class: Fighter Eldritch Knight
Fighting Style: Tunnel Fighter
While in your defensive stance, you can make opportunity attacks without using your reaction.

Make sure you have the Booming Blade cantrip and get Enlarge.
Feats: War Caster, Sentinel, Polearm Master

Be a large creature taking up 4 squares that has 15 foot of reach with a polearm and then cast Booming Blade with your opportunity attack every time anything enters your reach, leaves your reach, or moves more than 5 feet while in your reach.

Super cheesy but it is very cinematic.


Booming Blade wouldn't work 15ft away and you only get the extra 5ft reach on your turn not for opportunity attacks.

You COULD combine a reach weapon + Battle Master's Lunge maneuver for a 20ft away attack though.

CTurbo
2018-12-25, 03:03 AM
Bugbears make excellent Gloom Stalkers as they can stay hid in shadows better and for longer. Bonus points for multiclassing to get access to Shadow Blade.

For this I think Gloom Stalker/Arcane Trickster would be perfect. Probably even better than Gloom Stalker/Assassin



I think a Lance wielding mounted combat Bugbear would be awesome. If you like cheese, be a TWF Bugbear Fighter with Mounted Combat and Dual Wielder and use TWO Lances lol

Imagine Bugbear Battle Master riding around the battlefield on a horse tripping and disarming the enemies while never really even getting close to them. Goading attack is especially fun as you can hit them and run far out of their reach.

Dalebert
2018-12-25, 09:17 AM
I made a thief with a 2 level barbarian dip and armed him with a whip which I use strength to attack with. Now he can almost always use Reckless Attack to get adv and land his sneak attacks from 15 ft away. Will probably eventually take TWF and use two whips until I can manage to get him a Staff of Power for his off-hand, which I have a means to do. His off-hand attack would only be 10ft but he could add a d6 of force dmg. Your first ASI can get you to 18 str and 17 dex. I took expertise in stealth and athletics so when he needs to grapple, he can rage and combine adv with expertise and a high strength to be nearly irresistible. He never fails a climb checks and climbs at full speed. Tabaxis, eat your heart out. I took resilient dex (now 18 dex) which combines with Danger Sense so he's practically immune to dex-save based dmg, and rogue will eventually give him wisdom saves so he'll have str, dex, con, and wis save profs. He is a BEAST.

And I have so much fun playing this guy. I gave him a 10 int and made him a sage (specialty nature) but I continue to play him as socially naive. He's CG but the Zhentarim convinced him they were this big club that helps people. He carries a book around that he draws flowers and animals in crayon and takes notes and he's very proud of it and shows it to new people, particularly those with academic backgrounds. He carries spectacles with the lenses busted out and just some fragments remaining that he thinks help him read better. He loves small-sized characters and immediately picks them up and hugs them or puts them up on his shoulders.

Atavis
2018-12-25, 02:24 PM
Booming Blade wouldn't work 15ft away and you only get the extra 5ft reach on your turn not for opportunity attacks.

You COULD combine a reach weapon + Battle Master's Lunge maneuver for a 20ft away attack though.

Indeed. It's been a while since i really looked at it. Thanks for the correction.

Arkhios
2018-12-25, 04:18 PM
One build other than assassin is hiding in plain sight, apparently: (Thread) Necromancer.

In other words, this thread is little less than a year old. I'd suggest you to make a new thread about it if you wish to have further discussion on this topic.

Nidgit
2018-12-26, 08:11 AM
I’ve always wanted to play a bugbear shadow monk.

I too have badly wanted to play a bugbear shadow monk. Seems like a great way to consistently get that bonus sneak attack damage, and there's something wonderful about imagining two giant fuzzy mitts emerging from darkness to snatch unsuspecting enemies.

The Strength bonus is a little wasted, but a one level dip into Rogue nets you expertise in Stealth and Athletics plus some bonus SA damage to round out the build nicely. Worst case scenario, you've offset dumping Strength and gotten better at Shoves.