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View Full Version : Optimization Building a 2 machete wielding guy



Gatsu81
2018-01-26, 03:45 AM
Hi to all, i am ending my long career as a lurker on this forums with my first actual post (feel free to redirect me if there's already an answer that i couldn't find).
I am playing an AL game: i played in 3.5 for years and when a couple of months ago i got the chance to play again i jumped on it.
I was all new on 5e so i followed my gut on what i remembered for 3.5 as the "simplest" (aka: you need to know less) class: the barbarian.
I knew that i was allowed to change everything to level 4 so i took my time to get a little more familiar with the system.
I am not happy just being a great weapon fighting barbarian (soaking damage and relying on criticals or GWF to subtract from my to hit).
I ended up thinking about a 2 weapon fighting Barb4/Ftr6/Rogue10.
Barb->bear
Ftr->champion
Rogue->assassin.
I would reflavor the shortswords/scimitars as machetes (and i still won't tweet).
I am a mountain dwarf
Str 16 Con 16 Dex 14 Wis 12 Int 10 Cha 8 (i don't like dumb characters, so i'd avoid int scores under 10).
I plan on going with light finesse weapons but using strength to hit and damage.

We play in meetings, so the party more or less changes every session, making a bit hard to plan synergies with other players.
I'd like to be useful every level if that's possible (not being the dead weight just waiting for the next level to explode): we're level 2 now, so i can plan ahead.

What would be the best progression of class levels to take? E.g i plan on taking resilient: wis to cover my weak save, but when it would be better? (i don't want end up taking it first when it would be useful around level 8, going around just being a little nuisance to monsters).

Of course any advice or ideas about how to mix and match(or change) the number of levels in each class are appreciated. I know i end up with a low AC but i am hoping the bear barbarian feature can cover for that (and probably i'm still living up to the 3rd edition idea that the highest level you are the less useful AC is since monsters hit you anyway:D).
Thanks in advance!

Edit: We're playing ToA if that is of any help.

Kane0
2018-01-26, 04:05 AM
Assassin probably won't be as good in practice as it looks on paper, getting surprise isn't terribly reliable. Scout rogue from Xan's might work better for you, or perhaps AT so you can pick up Shadow Blade? Swashbuckler will also work well.

It really depends on when you want your ASIs and Extra Attack online. Barb 3, Fighter 3 and Rogue 2 are all big break points, but you'll want to get Extra attack ASAP most likely so getting Barb to 5 or ditching it early at 2 or 3 to get it a little bit late as fighter sounds the way to go.

Actually Rogue might split you a bit too thinly when MCing, especially since you'll be using your Bonus Action for TWF rather than cunning action. Is Sneak Attack and Expertise worth they delays you'll be facing?

Edit: Might I suggest one of the following:
Barbarian 5, fighter 3, rogue until you're happy then the rest in more barbarian
Fighter 5, barbarian 3, more fighter up to 11 or 12 and the rest in rogue
Barbarian 5, the rest in rogue until you want to drop into fighter

Gatsu81
2018-01-26, 04:18 AM
My ideas (not from experience, but just from reading) were:
Taking the alert feat to help being at the top of initiative, rage and attack aiming for a critical (champion helps here) and use the sneak on the critical one.
If i read it correctly the assassin feature does not rely just on surprise, but on you getting your bonuses against whoever hasn't still acted in that fight, so that would come helpful.
Raging and recklessly attacking would give me a constant source of sneak attacks when needed, using the dueling fighting style to keep the damage going with my offhand.
I was planning for more ASIs so i tought 6 fighter and 4 barb as to get a single extra attack.
I was split between going straight fighter up to 6 and barbarize myself, or mix and match delaying the extra attack for 1 or 2 levels hoping that the offhand attack would compensate.
And maybe it's me but is cunning action so good? I really don't see it as much useful for someone with barbarian on, but that could just be my inexperience talking.

And about the delays..i simply don't know i was asking here to find out things like this!;)

Kane0
2018-01-26, 04:29 AM
Raging will also take a bonus action, which means no off hand attack when you activate it.

Barbarian Reckless Attack means the first half of Assassinate is much less useful, and the second half means you need to get surprise which is not very often in play. Surprised is also different to hasn't had a turn yet. It's like a hidden condition.

Dueling Fighting Style won't help you with two weapons, you will want the TWF style to add your Str to your off hand damage

6 fighter then 4 barbarian is solid, thats extra attack as soon as you can plus 3 ASIs, one more than usual for level 10 (i recommend a defensive feat like resilient, an offensive one like dual wielder and an ability increase or all-round feat like lucky, any particular order though many will say you want to get an 18 in your attack stat as soon as you can).

After level 10 your into the late stage of any game really, so take whatever is appropriate when you reach it. That may be more fighter for ASIs or Barbarian for HP, or rogue for Expertise (athletics will make you a grapple terror) and Cunning Action along with other goodies like Uncanny Dodge and Evasion to really boost late game durability.

Cunning action is pretty damn nice. It's bonus action get-out-of-jail-free without a per-rest limit, plus hide on top of that if you have a use for it. Thief adds Use Item to that list, Mastermind adds Help. Cunning Action alone can save you needing the Mobile feat or similar, as well as get you positioned wherever you are needed in combat (important for a frontline melee).

Edit: If you have access to Xanathar's, a hilarious dual wielding build is an elven or half-elven champion fighter with the elven accuracy feat. Use Dex instead of Str and you can enjoy 3-die advantage and 19-20 crits on *lots* of attacks, you will usually crit once or more each round from level 11 onwards. Even better if you can find an item or buddy to help you out with getting advantage (like knocking prone) and extra per-hit damage increases (like elemental weapon).

Gatsu81
2018-01-26, 06:51 AM
I know that raging would somehow reduce my damage output for the first round, but the rage bonus should let me keep it up on the long run.

About the assassin, i understood what you mean. That require consideration.
I wasn't planning for dueling, i just got confused, thanks.

So if i understand correctly you're suggesting 6ftr-4barb and then eventually ponder what to do?
Resilient wisdom was surely in the plan..but when? ftr4 - ftr6 -barb4?

Kane0
2018-01-26, 03:31 PM
Can you swap your Str and Dex scores around? If you can you lose out on the +2 damage from rage but get a lot more out of your unarmored AC, so you can do this:
Fighter 6 (+2 Dex at level 4, Resilient at level 6)
Barbarian 4 (+2 Dex at level 10)
Rogue 10 (Alert, Lucky, Mobile or Observant at levels 14, 18 and 20)

GlenSmash!
2018-01-26, 05:28 PM
Can you swap your Str and Dex scores around? If you can you lose out on the +2 damage from rage but get a lot more out of your unarmored AC, so you can do this:
Fighter 6 (+2 Dex at level 4, Resilient at level 6)
Barbarian 4 (+2 Dex at level 10)
Rogue 10 (Alert, Lucky, Mobile or Observant at levels 14, 18 and 20)

Not using Strength to attck means he'll lose out on Reckless Attack too as reckless Attack requires using Strength. The Damage from Rage isn't much to lose, but Reckless Attack sure could be.