5e concentration with spells rules help

[Tboy1492]

I’m trying to better understand concentration on spells and (rituals) better. My dm is telling me the dmg gives a bunch of extra stuff on times for concentration checks outside of combat damage, and negative effects. Example, failing to concentrate on a ritual can take a spell slot permanently, destroy the spell or ritual book, or cause an ill effect related to the spell. Like alarm permanently deafening you because it’s now permanently going off in your head indefinitely. Spells like stone wall, pass a check concentration check (raw, not a save with prof if prof bonuses) or it can petrify you or encase you in stone or something, and costing a bunch in material to make permanent in addition to all this.

Also I’m told rituals costing some crazy amount per cast, I think alarm was 25 gold in material, plus all of the possible negative effects and raw con to concentrate? I’m playing a wizard and understanding how all this works is sort of critical to future plans for the character (and future tunes who may be casters).

Can anyone confirm from the DMG how all this works, since the dm is essentially saykvg the handbook is not accurate (Also I don’t have the actual players handbook yet just the srd copy till we get closer to game day.)

[PhoenixPhyre]

I’m trying to better understand concentration on spells and (rituals) better. My dm is telling me the dmg gives a bunch of extra stuff on times for concentration checks outside of combat damage, and negative effects. Example, failing to concentrate on a ritual can take a spell slot permanently, destroy the spell or ritual book, or cause an ill effect related to the spell. Like alarm permanently deafening you because it’s now permanently going off in your head indefinitely. Spells like stone wall, pass a check concentration check (raw, not a save with prof if prof bonuses) or it can petrify you or encase you in stone or something, and costing a bunch in material to make permanent in addition to all this.

Also I’m told rituals costing some crazy amount per cast, I think alarm was 25 gold in material, plus all of the possible negative effects and raw con to concentrate? I’m playing a wizard and understanding how all this works is sort of critical to future plans for the character (and future tunes who may be casters).

Can anyone confirm from the DMG how all this works, since the dm is essentially saykvg the handbook is not accurate (Also I don’t have the actual players handbook yet just the srd copy till we get closer to game day.)

Those are all houserules at worst, misunderstandings at best. I would be very wary of playing with that DM (or wouldn't cast concentration spells or rituals.

By RAW, the following is true:

* Spells that require concentration (including rituals while they are being cast) can fail if concentration is disrupted (by damage or by environmental effects such as a severe storm). The save to resist this is a Constitution saving throw (not a CON check), just like in combat.
* A disrupted spell consumes the slot used to cast it (except for rituals), but has no other ill effects.
* Spells only cost gold if they specifically cite a consumed, costly (as in has a GP price listed) material component.

[LeonBH]

failing to concentrate on a ritual can take a spell slot permanently, destroy the spell or ritual book, or cause an ill effect related to the spell.

You never permanently lose a spell slot. There is no game effect that does that.

Losing concentration of a ritual spell does not destroy the ritual book or backfire in any way except wasting time and expending the spell slot (but only on a spell with a casting time of more than 1 action - you never lose a spell slot when casting as a ritual).


Like alarm permanently deafening you because it’s now permanently going off in your head indefinitely. Spells like stone wall, pass a check concentration check (raw, not a save with prof if prof bonuses) or it can petrify you or encase you in stone or something, and costing a bunch in material to make permanent in addition to all this.

None of this is RAW.


Also I’m told rituals costing some crazy amount per cast, I think alarm was 25 gold in material, plus all of the possible negative effects and raw con to concentrate? I’m playing a wizard and understanding how all this works is sort of critical to future plans for the character (and future tunes who may be casters).

The only additional cost of ritual casting is an extra 10 minutes to the casting time. No extra gold cost.


Can anyone confirm from the DMG how all this works, since the dm is essentially saykvg the handbook is not accurate (Also I don’t have the actual players handbook yet just the srd copy till we get closer to game day.)

Your DM is being deceitful. None of this is on the DMG. He should be open about his house rules.

[strangebloke]

Spells like alarm require a 25 gp focus, but the focus isn't consumed. You can use it hundreds of times. Other spells like raise dead do consume the material component.

And yeah, this DM's house rules are BS. Don't pick concentration spells around this guy, especially not rituals to be used outside of combat.

Which is sad, those are my favorite sort of spell! Guidance, Leomunds hut, etc.

[LeonBH]

Spells like alarm require a 25 gp focus.

I just checked the spell, and it doesn't require one at all. It requires "a tiny bell and a piece of fine silver wire", but could be replaced by a spellcasting focus cheaper than 25gp.

[jollydm]

Ditto, this stuff is all house-ruled nonsense. Ask him where in the DMG he saw this stuff. If he can't tell you where...well, you got your answer.

[PhoenixPhyre]

The extra cost bit sounds like he was remembering 4e's rituals, which did cost a certain amount of gold to use. But 5e has nothing like that except on individual spells.

[Unoriginal]

I concur that this DM is either being ridiculously misinformed, or openly lying.

[NecessaryWeevil]

And yeah, this DM's house rules are BS. Don't pick concentration spells around this guy, especially not rituals to be used outside of combat.



Which is tantamount to saying "Don't be a caster," because so many important spells are concentration.

Which, coincidentally, would be my advice (right behind "don't play with him/her at all").

[Avonar]

Which is tantamount to saying "Don't be a caster," because so many important spells are concentration.

Which, coincidentally, would be my advice (right behind "don't play with him/her at all").

Pretty much Evocation Wizard or bust at this rate.

[strangebloke]

Which is tantamount to saying "Don't be a caster," because so many important spells are concentration.

Which, coincidentally, would be my advice (right behind "don't play with him/her at all").


Pretty much Evocation Wizard or bust at this rate.

Yeah. Evo is ok without concentration. I think you might be ok with one-round concentration spells like guidance and absorb elements.

Somewhat humorously, animate dead and counterspell don't require concentration at all. A necromancer would be golden without concentration.

Really though, the only way to win against a thuggish DM is not to play. If he's coming up with sucky rules and lying about it, what can you do to counter him?

Nothing, that's what.

First 3e campaign I played had a DM who wouldn't allow the TWF rogue to make two attacks at the end of a movement. (which he had the feats for) or sneak attack more than once a round. (you can sneak attack on every attack in 3e.) We argued with him, but our options were either to quit or to just suck it up.

Newbies that we were, we sucked it up.

[LeonBH]

Yeah. Evo is ok without concentration. I think you might be ok with one-round concentration spells like guidance and absorb elements.

Somewhat humorously, animate dead and counterspell don't require concentration at all. A necromancer would be golden without concentration.

Wall of Fire is a wonderful Evocation spell, because not only does it deal damage, it splits the battlefield. Unfortunately, it's a concentration spell.

It's possible to construct a necromancer or abjurer without relying on concentration spells, but a lot of their utility is diminished. No invisibility or greater invisibility, no haste, no polymorph. Under this DM though, casting haste and losing concentration might give crippling disabilities to the target. Probably not a good idea.

[strangebloke]

It really amazes me, how in a system that gives DMs so much free range to make up things that screw over their players, DMs still feel the need to break things that shouldn't be broken and then lie about it.

You have so many ways to do this well! Don't be a **** about it!

[Tboy1492]

It really amazes me, how in a system that gives DMs so much free range to make up things that screw over their players, DMs still feel the need to break things that shouldn't be broken and then lie about it.

You have so many ways to do this well! Don't be a **** about it!

I’m honestly hoping there is some kind of misinformation going on, I can see making alternative rules to make a check to do the ritual spells as rituals instead of spells since it doesn’t use a slot and takes a long time, or concentrate on a longer spell for the permanent effect (like stone wall).
it’s the drawbacks I’m confused on and the extra cost, why doesn’t the players handbook talk about an extra cost if there is one? And drawbacks for the spell? Is he looking at dmg or some sort of advanced rules that are only in the dmg or some official rules archive/form?

I really don’t want to call him a liar, I’ve known him for years and played under him for a long time. It would be a first if he is, I’m just trying to find the rules he is talking about to get a better clarification or clear up any misunderstanding or rule confusion that I am hoping the situation is.

[strangebloke]

I’m honestly hoping there is some kind of misinformation going on, I can see making alternative rules to make a check to do the ritual spells as rituals instead of spells since it doesn’t use a slot and takes a long time, or concentrate on a longer spell for the permanent effect (like stone wall).
it’s the drawbacks I’m confused on and the extra cost, why doesn’t the players handbook talk about an extra cost if there is one? And drawbacks for the spell? Is he looking at dmg or some sort of advanced rules that are only in the dmg or some official rules archive/form?

I really don’t want to call him a liar, I’ve known him for years and played under him for a long time. It would be a first if he is, I’m just trying to find the rules he is talking about to get a better clarification or clear up any misunderstanding or rule confusion that I am hoping the situation is.

It's possible he played with a DM who used those rules, possibly in a different edition, but they are not anywhere in any of the rulebooks. There is nothing that even suggests what you're talking about as an option.

[Provo]

I’m honestly hoping there is some kind of misinformation going on, I can see making alternative rules to make a check to do the ritual spells as rituals instead of spells since it doesn’t use a slot and takes a long time, or concentrate on a longer spell for the permanent effect (like stone wall).
it’s the drawbacks I’m confused on and the extra cost, why doesn’t the players handbook talk about an extra cost if there is one? And drawbacks for the spell? Is he looking at dmg or some sort of advanced rules that are only in the dmg or some official rules archive/form?

I really don’t want to call him a liar, I’ve known him for years and played under him for a long time. It would be a first if he is, I’m just trying to find the rules he is talking about to get a better clarification or clear up any misunderstanding or rule confusion that I am hoping the situation is.

Well he may not be lying, but he is very definitely wrong. He could be misremembering or severely misinterpreting something.

Unfortunately, his error makes casters almost unplayable. Concentration checks are very common. I had to make about ten over the course of two hours this week (with a 40% chance of failure each time). When a fail causes affliction ranging from permanent disfigurement (deafness) to essentially death (petrification), using concentration spells is a sure-fire way to kill off your character.