Demon possessing a celestial

[TallerSpine]

Here's the situation:
The setting is Eberron. So, any demon or devil is capable of possessing a mortal. A nalfeshnee possessed one of the players. They have had a ghaele eladrin as a patron for a long time. The possessed character knows she is possessed, but went to see the eladrin with no plans of removing the possession. So, the demon took over. It feebleminded the eladrin.

The party has three uses of the heal spell, but they know the demon can use feeblemind at will. They want to kill the possessed character and hope that takes care of the possession. I want the demon to simply hop to the feebleminded celestial before they heal her.

So, any ideas for what that might look like? Both before and after the heal spell goes off?

[Zanos]

I guess it depends on the specific wording on the possession effect, but my initial thought is that outsiders have soul/body unity, they aren't separate like it is for mortals. It shouldn't be possible to possesses one.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Ghaele Eladrin have Protective Aura, which functions as Magic Circle against Evil. They can't be possessed.
Note that the same effect prevents "exercising mental control", so just stepping within 20ft of the Ghaele should arguably give the character back control (temporarily) and prevent the demon from taking control as long as they stay there.

They also have a +14 will save (with the aura bonus) and SR 28 vs the DC 20, CL 12 Feeblemind of the Nalfeshnee, so the SLA landing was kind of a long shot in the first place, but your players don't necessarily know that.

[TallerSpine]

Ghaele Eladrin have Protective Aura, which functions as Magic Circle against Evil. They can't be possessed.
Note that the same effect prevents "exercising mental control", so just stepping within 20ft of the Ghaele should arguably give the character back control (temporarily) and prevent the demon from taking control as long as they stay there.

They also have a +14 will save (with the aura bonus) and SR 28 vs the DC 20, CL 12 Feeblemind of the Nalfeshnee, so the SLA landing was kind of a long shot in the first place, but your players don't necessarily know that.

The Elastin is feebleminded and would not know to activate the aura. In general, supernatural abilities require a standard action to activate unless the ability states otherwise (for example the Ghaele's tongues ability).

Anyway, I have never really thought much about a celestial being possessed. It is entirely possible that like Zanos stated above it just fails. But, as a DM, when else am I gonna have a feebleminded celestial ripe pickings for a demon?

If it does work (and I'm not saying I'm going to let it), I'm thinking it could go one of two ways:
The demon is wearing a celestial suit and teleports away before they can heal the eladrin. He starts doing awful things in a celestial's body.
Or, the universe bucks at this mash up of good and evil. Maybe there is a massive surge as positive and negative energies collide. Maybe there is a cataclysm like the Mournlands. It just seems too fun not to think more about.

[noob]

The Elastin is feebleminded and would not know to activate the aura. In general, supernatural abilities require a standard action to activate unless the ability states otherwise (for example the Ghaele's tongues ability).

Anyway, I have never really thought much about a celestial being possessed. It is entirely possible that like Zanos stated above it just fails. But, as a DM, when else am I gonna have a feebleminded celestial ripe pickings for a demon?

If it does work (and I'm not saying I'm going to let it), I'm thinking it could go one of two ways:
The demon is wearing a celestial suit and teleports away before they can heal the eladrin. He starts doing awful things in a celestial's body.
Or, the universe bucks at this mash up of good and evil. Maybe there is a massive surge as positive and negative energies collide. Maybe there is a cataclysm like the Mournlands. It just seems too fun not to think more about.

Magic circle is a continuous power that can be reactivated as a free action when lost.
In fact nothing suggests that outsider could cancel his circle.
so you would need to feeblemind then break the circle(with dispelling or something else) before being able to mind control.
I guess getting a wand of dispell magic is not an impossible thing for your demon.

Sorry disregard that I thought it was an archon.

for the actual ability:



Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the ghaele. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals ghaele’s HD). (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in a ghaele’s statistics block.)

It is not clear that it is something which can be used.
It would make sense to say it is a passive or triggered effect due to the first line but it is not clear.
anyway those two spells does not have the same duration so what would be the duration of the ability if it was an ability you use instead of a passive ability.

[Crake]

I guess it depends on the specific wording on the possession effect, but my initial thought is that outsiders have soul/body unity, they aren't separate like it is for mortals. It shouldn't be possible to possesses one.

I've always felt the same way, I've even gotten into a few heated debates over it, but there's actually no supporting evidence to say that outsiders cannot possess one another, or even that a mortal couldn't possess an outsider.

[daremetoidareyo]

The eladren can Channel itself into one of the PCS, if they are willing, even under the effects of a feeble mind spell. And then you have a possession off!

[Psyren]

Outsiders possessing each other just doesn't make sense to me; As others have stated, the soul and body are one unit. Add that to the Magic Circle effect, and forcing this to happen smacks of railroading to me.

[daremetoidareyo]

The eladren can Channel itself into one of the PCS, if they are willing, even under the effects of a feeble mind spell. And then you have a possession off!

Continuing with this train of thought; invoke the whatever outsider pact treaty of 912b. outsiders must use their hosts in a dance off. The eladren doesn't have a Charisma of but one but he sure does have ranks in perform dance. That leaves it with the player to cut a rug with whatever their Charisma score is.

The loser must relinquish their host.

[Calthropstu]

Outsiders possessing each other just doesn't make sense to me; As others have stated, the soul and body are one unit. Add that to the Magic Circle effect, and forcing this to happen smacks of railroading to me.

Agreed. The feeblemind needed a miracle to go off though. At sr 28 and needing a nat 1 to fail the save, that feeblemind was a hail mary. The possession cannot happen, period, because of the aura which is always on unless dispelled.
So attempting any form of control is a no go. In fact, the possessed creature can't be controlled if he's in that aura, so the feeblemind shouldn't have gone off. Unless you want chuga chuga choo choo called out on you, I would not recommend this course of action.

[Crake]

Agreed. The feeblemind needed a miracle to go off though. At sr 28 and needing a nat 1 to fail the save, that feeblemind was a hail mary. The possession cannot happen, period, because of the aura which is always on unless dispelled.
So attempting any form of control is a no go. In fact, the possessed creature can't be controlled if he's in that aura, so the feeblemind shouldn't have gone off. Unless you want chuga chuga choo choo called out on you, I would not recommend this course of action.

SR28 vs CL12 is 25% chance, but the save DC is 20, vs the ghaele's +10 will save, +14 after the protective aura, not quite the natural 1 you made out. Still, that's another 25% chance, so it's a one in sixteen chance to succeed. Hard, but not exactly miracle levels. Feeblemind is also medium range, so that can easily be done outside the range of the protective aura, but yeah, actually possessing the ghaele is a no-go, thanks to the protective aura.

[noob]

also since the aura is supernatural only disjonction would work and only with a reading that also allows disjunction to destroy the universe if it have been created magically.(even if the creation have an instantaneous duration)

[Kantaki]

A demon possessing a celestial would end poorly for both involved parties I think.
Being literally made from eachothers opposite and all that.

In the best case they destroy/weaken each other.
In the worst case?
Badaboom.
Big badaboom.

Although depending where they are that could be a great outcome from the demons point of view.:smallamused:

[Oracle71]

It may be possible for a demon to possess certain celestials, depending on what the nature of celestials in your campaign is. Per the Planescape lore, Angels and Archons are formerly mortal souls given form, so those should definitely NOT be vulnerable to posession. Guardinals and Eladrins, as I remember the lore, were actually ageless planar races, which would technically make them valid targets of posession.

That doesn't mean it would be easy or smart to do, though. The possessing fiend would have to suppress the aura of protection, beat the SR, beat the will save, and then it would have to avoid every other celestial in the multiverse to avoid THEIR protective auras and detect evil abilities.

[shawshank]

There is an awful lot wrong with this entire premise. But assuming you somehow found a legitimate loophole around it, it would be nearly impossible for the demon to avoid being expelled.

From the rules on possession:
You can’t choose to activate the body’s extraordinary or supernatural abilities. The creature’s spells and spell-like abilities do not stay with the body.

You also can ONLY use a standard to leave the body. You can not use your own teleport to leave with the body. In effect, as soon as the Heal spell is cast, your demon is screwed.