[D&D 3.5] Argh! Too many books to trawl through and choices to be made! (spell help)

[Malak'ai]

Alright, now that I've stopped tearing my hair out (not as if I weren't going bald fast enough as it was :smalltongue:) while flipping through the pages of soooo many books I finally decided to turn to the forums for help.

So for a new game in the PbP section here on the GiTP boards, I've rolled myself up an Archivist.
Basic details that are pertinant are that the character is a Grey Elf with the Dark Creature template. True Neutral, Level 3, almost level 4. 20 Int and 14 Wis and focusing on Utility and BFC spells while a little but of healing and blasting will be tucked in the back pocket for when it's needed.
I have 10 1st level spells and 2 second level spells that can automatically be put in my prayer book, plus I have 3000gp I can spend on scrolls.

So playground, can you please help me (and my suffering hairline) come up with a spell list for this character?

EDIT: Whoops... Forgot to give a list of allowed sources.... PHB, PHBII, MM1-IV, SRD, Miniatures Handbook, Complete Warrior, Adventurer, Divine, Arcane, Mage, Heroes of Horror, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, Magic of Incarnum, Races of X (destiny, stone, the wild, the dragon. You know.) Libris Mortis, Frostburn, Stormwrack, Sandstorm, Cityscape, Dungeonscape. Magic Items Compendium (and anything else I can slip past the DM... He know's where to find me if he really wants to smack me upside the head with the DMG :smallwink:).

[Inevitability]

Does your DM let archivists learn spells from the wizard list (which can, with some cheese, be made available quite easily)? How about non-cleric divine lists?

[Lord Haart]

You didn't actually specify what you want/need from your spell list. Yes, you're a Dark Grey Elf Archivist with high int, who… does what? Either in terms of optimisation level or in terms of having a theme, you probably want to set some expectations (sure, a lot of answers will default to suggesting "whatever makes you highly optimised without going theory-OP, with some neat tricks poster personally likes thrown it" and some will skip straight to theory-OP, but will that really be useful? Other than suggesting some "must have in an optimised party" spells).

Prepared casters with wide book access are a pain. Played a Chameleon once whose list of spells avaiable was "all of them up to 3rd level". A full print-out (two columns per page, two-sided print, 8 size font) took about 40 or even 50 sheets, and despite having a week to prepare, i had sooo much decision paralysis i basically defaulted to creature binding and some spells i used on earlier characters. Archivist's spell list is either "2/3rds of the spells that are in the game" or "all of them", depending on what the answer is regarding tricks to learn arcane spells, so you'll face similar trouble.

The best way, i think, is to pick a theme, then use archivist's unrivaled spell access to have exactly zero trouble filling it. "My character can both heal and raise undead armies"? Easily doable with a default cleric. "My character can both heal and blast with high-powered spells of fire and air elements"? A cleric has to jump through the hoops, but a shugenja manages — barely, though, and without being able to add one more theme to it. "My character is in tune with the Spirit World in its entirety, which makes him a summoner of natural beasts (like, with Summon Nature Ally spells) and a shapeshifter himself, but also a commander of undead both corporeal and incorporeal and expert at ethereal and planar travel"? Now that is a job archivist fills with far less trouble than a combination of other classes would. Don't let your spell access make demands of you (you can do a great, powerful and versatile character by just looking over SRD cleric, druid and paladin spells and cherry-picking whatever you like; no need to obsess over what you could miss); use it when you need it, as a tool to break down the usually-barred gates of this edition.

Use websites that let you filter spells by level, type and keywords (there's a certain Marvin who did a good job at it). This will help a lot.

[haplot]

Would your GM go for the spell book compendium?

That book and the PH I personally find all i need to find spells, that and I guess apps off internet that do same purpose

[Malak'ai]

Does your DM let archivists learn spells from the wizard list (which can, with some cheese, be made available quite easily)? How about non-cleric divine lists?

Not sure about spells from the Wizard list, will have to check. I do have access to all non-cleric divine list, so Druid, Ranger, Paladin ect is all a go.


You didn't actually specify what you want/need from your spell list. Yes, you're a Dark Grey Elf Archivist with high int, who… does what? Either in terms of optimisation level or in terms of having a theme, you probably want to set some expectations (sure, a lot of answers will default to suggesting "whatever makes you highly optimised without going theory-OP, with some neat tricks poster personally likes thrown it" and some will skip straight to theory-OP, but will that really be useful? Other than suggesting some "must have in an optimised party" spells).

Prepared casters with wide book access are a pain. Played a Chameleon once whose list of spells avaiable was "all of them up to 3rd level". A full print-out (two columns per page, two-sided print, 8 size font) took about 40 or even 50 sheets, and despite having a week to prepare, i had sooo much decision paralysis i basically defaulted to creature binding and some spells i used on earlier characters. Archivist's spell list is either "2/3rds of the spells that are in the game" or "all of them", depending on what the answer is regarding tricks to learn arcane spells, so you'll face similar trouble.

The best way, i think, is to pick a theme, then use archivist's unrivaled spell access to have exactly zero trouble filling it. "My character can both heal and raise undead armies"? Easily doable with a default cleric. "My character can both heal and blast with high-powered spells of fire and air elements"? A cleric has to jump through the hoops, but a shugenja manages — barely, though, and without being able to add one more theme to it. "My character is in tune with the Spirit World in its entirety, which makes him a summoner of natural beasts (like, with Summon Nature Ally spells) and a shapeshifter himself, but also a commander of undead both corporeal and incorporeal and expert at ethereal and planar travel"? Now that is a job archivist fills with far less trouble than a combination of other classes would. Don't let your spell access make demands of you (you can do a great, powerful and versatile character by just looking over SRD cleric, druid and paladin spells and cherry-picking whatever you like; no need to obsess over what you could miss); use it when you need it, as a tool to break down the usually-barred gates of this edition.

Use websites that let you filter spells by level, type and keywords (there's a certain Marvin who did a good job at it). This will help a lot.

As I did state in the opening post, I'll be looking mainly at Utility and BFC, while still liking to have a fee blasty and heal-y spells in the back pocket.


Would your GM go for the spell book compendium?

That book and the PH I personally find all i need to find spells, that and I guess apps off internet that do same purpose

I'm pretty sure Spell Conpendium is allowed... If not I'll be the one whacking the DM over the head next time I see him :smalltongue:.

[Yahzi]

Constraint breed creativity. Pick a single school and only choose spells from it. Sure, you won't be as powerful, but you will remember this character far longer than any normal wizard.

[Malak'ai]

Constraint breed creativity. Pick a single school and only choose spells from it. Sure, you won't be as powerful, but you will remember this character far longer than any normal wizard.

I'm playing an Archivist, not a Wizard, but yes, that would make him rememberal indeed.

[Darrin]

No... Spell Compendium...? That's... odd.

Hmm. Ok, given your sourcebook list, a lot of the "early access" for particular spells are not available. So that simplifies some things. I think we can also assume that divine bard is not available, since Unearthed Arcana was not listed as a source.

Can you ask about online sources? Guidance of the avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a), for example, only appears in the Wizards' Spellbook Archive.

So... sorting out what isn't allowed, going through my typical Druidzilla (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?221979-Druid-Help&p=12183941#post12183941) and Healbot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514702-good-cleric-spells&p=21691649#post21691649) advice... some spells to consider:

1st

Blade of Blood (PHBII). Swift-action spell can give you (or any ally within touch range) a +1d6 damage buff, or +3d6 if you take 5 points of damage. Great spell for a Wand Chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape) in your melee weapon.

Bless (Core). At low levels, it can turn the tide of battles. At higher levels... hey, every +1 helps!

Blockade (Complete Scoundrel). Swift action to drop a 5' cube of wood into a square, which can be a nifty way to block a door/tunnel or create a choke point. Another good spell to put in a wand chamber.

Conjure Ice Beast I (Frostburn). Gives you access to the summon monster list, and some interesting special attacks: frigid touch, ice breath, cold aura, and engulf (more on this one later). Cold aura is particularly nifty: free action every round, 1d6 cold damage in a 10' burst, *no save*. Summon a bunch of beasts at once to do Xd6 damage to a small area with no save. Check with your DM if the phrase, "In all other ways, conjure ice beast I functions like summon monster I" allows you to use Augment Summoning, Golden Desert Honey (Complete Mage), or Ring of the Beast (Complete Champion) with your ice beasts.

Entangle (Core). I actually prefer impeding stones (Cityscape) to this one, as it's not dependent on vegetation. This "grabby plants" spell is your bread-and-butter debuff, particularly at low levels, and unless you have Sculpt Spell you want to get this off early before everyone closes to melee and friendlies get in the way. If there are no plants available, fungus = plants so cast spore field (Complete Scoundrel) first. If your DM gets all up in your grill about the "no plants" thing, switch to impeding stones (Cityscape) for a similar debuff.

Faerie fire (Core). Negates invisiblity, blur, blink, and most other forms of concealment (except for magical darkness). Another good spell to "paint" enemies on the first round, and then follow up with obscuring mist/fog cloud so you can pepper them with ranged attacks while they stumble through fog/entangle squares.

Lesser Vigor (CDiv). CLW cures an average of 5.5 to 9.5 HP, this one does 11-15 HP, so much more efficient outside of combat.

Ice Slick (Frostburn). Could be referred to as "grease for healbots" but it's much better than grease: 20' square (four times the area of grease), and you can cast ice skate (same book) on your party members to make them immune to it. Even if a creature makes a successful Balance check to stay on their feat, they are now balancing on a slippery surface, and unless they have 5 ranks in Balance, they are now considered flat-footed, which is going to make the party rogue very happy.

Impeding Stones (Cityscape). Grease for treehuggers, but has a much bigger area than either grease or ice slick (40' radius), and may be even better than entangle: -2 penalty to attacks, difficult terrain costs double movement, and creatures are considered flat-footed while balancing. Unlike entangle, it can be cast pretty much anywhere you have dirt, earth, or stone floors.

Magic Stone (Core). I like this spell at lower levels because it gives the cleric a ranged attack with decent range (50' increment with a sling), it bypasses DR/magic, and it does double damage against undead.

Produce flame (Core). The "druid crossbow", ranged touch attacks out to 120', or shift into wildshape and add fire damage to one of your claw attacks. Can also be used to light things on fire, such as oil, webs (via the spell or monstrous spider summons), incendiary slime, or wall of thorns (hey it's magical fire).

Snowsight (Frostburn). The first half of the Snowglobe of Murder (see obscuring snow below). Allows your party to see through obscuring snow and sleet storm.

Winged Watcher (Complete Scoundrel). Fly as a swift action, to do scouting, or a "Get Out of Death Free" card. With Natural Spell, might also let you do some low-level aerial bombardment.

Wood Wose (CDiv). Everything an unseen servant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8235936&postcount=8) can do, only in a more druid-friendly color palette.

2nd

Cloudburst (CDiv). I'm not sure I'd take this at 2nd level (it's in the Spell Compendium at 1st), but if you need it for buffing damage on call lightning, then it's available.

Cloud of Knives (PHBII). Free action ranged attack every round. If you're going the DMM route, this is a popular spell to Persist.

Creeping Cold (CDiv). Chill metal without the training wheels. Add Extend Spell or Fairy Dust (100 GP, Complete Mage), and it becomes creaping DEATH: 21d6 damage over 6 rounds. Suck on that, Mr. Fireball Wizard.

Conjure Ice Beast II (Frostburn). Large monstrous centipede can engulf medium-sized enemies, or two wolves for 2x cold aura.

Drifts of the Shalm (PHBII). Blanket your enemies in snow that slows movement and deals cold damage. Then add blood snow (Frostburn) for 1d2 Con drain and save vs. nausea. Or create a leaf drift and light them on fire with produce flame. Or skip the produce flame with ashes that are already on fire. Best of all, the damage is no save/no SR.

Fire Trap (Core). This costs some money (25 GP per casting), but aside from discouraging pickpockets and other undesirables from pilfering your equipment, it's also a good way to increase the damage on splash weapons (alchemist's fire, flask of acid, etc.).

Flame Blade (Core). Melee touch attacks with a scimitar, so it's like getting wraithstrike for free. If you're running into too many creatures with fire resistance, switch to scimitar of sand (Sandstorm).

Frost Weapon (Frostburn). A decent damage buff for adding some [cold] damage to a weapon attack.

Hunter's Eye (PHBII). Sneak attack is situational and doesn't work on several broad types of enemies, but the really nice part about this spell is you don't have to suffer under the ranger's horrible caster level nerf: 1d6 SA + 1d6/3 CLs, woot! Combine with grave strike/vine strike (CAdv) to bypass certain immunities.

Icicle (Frostburn). You need a ceiling or doorframe for this spell to work, but great damage for a 2nd level spell: 4d6 piercing damage over a 10' square section, no save. Anyone adjacent to the affected area takes half, or none if they make a Ref save. Unfortunately, the damage is fixed and doesn't scale up at all.

Obscuring Snow (Frostburn). The second half of the Snowglobe of Murder. Creates a 30' globe of whiteout conditions that moves with your treehugger and lasts 1 hour/CL. Add snowsight to the party and they can see perfectly but your enemies can't.

Snake's Swiftness, Legion (MiniHB). Turn your standard action into an extra attack for the entire party + pets + summoned creatures.

Spider Climb (Core). Standing on the ceiling gets you out of melee, and lets you to rain down fire and lightning.

Spiritual Weapon (Core). This is my favorite 2nd level spell. It's a fire-and-forget attack that lasts several rounds, it bypasses DR, and it's a [force] effect so it can hit incorporeal/ethereal opponents.

Summon Nature's Ally II (Core). Dire badgers are one of the few creatures that leave tunnels behind them when they burrow. If you're trying to tunnel through solid rock, try soften earth and stone to turn it into mud/dirt. When DMs design impregnable fortresses and deathtrap dungeons, they hardly ever anticipate tunneling.

Summon Swarm (Core). Battlefield control, area-effect damage, and nausea all wrapped up into a single spell.

Swift Haste (CAdv/MiniHB). GET THIS! GET THIS NOW!


Huh. I might need to post this in another thread, but here's an interesting discovery... in the Miniatures Handbook there's a 1st level cleric spell called favorable sacrifice that gives you a bunch of DR/SR/resist energy with a nice long duration (1 hour/CL) by sacrificing gems. Well, chaos flasks (100 GP, Planar Handbook) can create a 25,000 GP gem by making a DC 13 Wisdom check. So DR 20, SR 20 and resist all energy 20 for only 100 GP... yeah, that'll probably get a book thrown at your head.

[Malak'ai]

No... Spell Compendium...? That's... odd.

*snip*

Thank you heaps for this! There were a few in that lot that I already had penciled in, but the majority of them were either new to me or given uses I hadn't heard of before (I don't play very many Divine casters).

As for Spell Compendium, I'll make sure it gets approved, so if you have some suggestions from that, I'd be much appreciative.

[Darrin]

As for Spell Compendium, I'll make sure it gets approved, so if you have some suggestions from that, I'd be much appreciative.

Well, Completes + MiniHB actually covers more than I expected. But if Spell Compendium is approved, then:

0th

Dawn (SC). Good to have one of these handy for your watch shift, so there are no messy arguments over Listen checks or how many PCs you can wake up with a standard action (just one, per the sleep spell description). Speaking of which, can also be used to counter sleep.

Amanuensis (SC). If you have anybody with the Forgery skill in the party (awesome skill, opposed by Forgery, which pretty much nobody ever has ranks in), this can be used to double their output. Forgery is also exceedingly easy to buff, even if you only have 1 rank: Forger's Paper (10 GP, Complete Scoundrel), Forgery Kit (40 GP, Complete Adventurer), and Wondrous Writing Set (2060 GP, Oriental Adventures) can give you a +14 bonus on your check, on top of guidance, guidance of the avatar (see below), and divine insight. Amanuensis can also be used to copy text protected by sepia snake sigil or explosive runes. It does trigger trap/glyph spells, so explosive runes will still go off and destroy the item, but you can cast it at a safe distance and preserve a copy of the original text.

1st

Aspect of the Wolf (SC). Archivists don't get Wild Shape, but at 1st level you can "fake" it. This spell changes your type to animal, so there are a few animal-only spells that can affect you. It might also be used for various type-changing shenanigans.

Blades of Fire (SC). Swift action, two weapons touched get +1d8 fire damage for 1 round. Really good spell to have in a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape).

Cloudburst (SC). Debuff vs. ranged attacks, but mostly useful for getting 3d10 damage on call lightning. Spell Compendium lowers his to 1st level, so it's not cluttering up a 2nd-level slot.

Deafening Clang (SC). Swift-action damage buff, adds +1d6 [sonic] damage to your weapon for 1 round. As with blade of blood and blades of fire, a good spell to have in a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape).

Delay Disease (SC). Don't clutter up your spell slots with this one, but do have a few scrolls/potions of this stuffed into your pack for emergencies. Diseases are pretty rare, but can be nasty if you're not prepared for them. Delaying it a day gives you a chance to pray for new spells or buy enough time to get to a population center with more resources.

Ebon Eyes (SC). Lets you see through magical darkness, which is usually the only darkness that matters. I wish the duration were better, though (10 min/CL).

Embrace the Wild (SC). Normally Druids get this as a 2nd level spell, but you can snag it off the Ranger's list at 1st. Blindsense 30', which allows you to pinpoint invisible creatures for your faerie fire or torchbug paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel).

Guiding Light (SC). Long range, 5' burst allows you to "paint" enemies with a +2 circumstance bonus on ranged attacks. Great buff if you have any archers in the party.

Hunter's Mercy (SC). If you can get your hands on a Glyph Seal (1000 GP, Magic Item Compendium), then this is a great way to get a guaranteed crit as a free action. Key the seal to something you can open/grab as a free action, such as a pocket, spell component, or ammunition. This triggers the spell, and your next hit with a bow autocrits.

Lesser Restoration (Core). I forgot about this one... paladins get it earlier than clerics, and it's an important spell to have around to get rid of fatigue or ability damage.

Snowshoes (SC). Same effect and duration as longstrider (+10' enhancement bonus to speed), but you also get to ignore the effects of snowy/icy terrain, including ice slick (see above).

2nd

Blinding Spittle (SC). Ranged touch attack (with a -4 penalty), target is blinded, *no save*.

Close Wounds (SC). Immediate action healing, and while it's not all that good at healing (1d4 + 1/CL, max +5), the fact that you can cast it immediately when an ally gets hit with a bad crit to keep them in the world of the living can make this spell a lifesaver in a very literal sense.

Dark Way (SC). At first glance this looks like a "bridge" spell, but you can also anchor it vertically as a "wall" spell. Good for blocking off hallways, dividing a room in half, or otherwise cutting off your opponents into more easily murderable portions.

Kelpstrand (SC). Grapple to set up sneak attacks, debuff high-dex opponents, immobilize an enemy, or shutdown a spellcaster. Particularly useful after everyone closes to melee range and entangle becomes impractical.

Knights Move (SC). Paladins get this before clerics. It's a swift-action teleport, which is nice, but you have to use it to flank an opponent... which may not necessarily be a good move for an archivist, but there are more than a few situations where being next to your opponent is a good thing.

Splinterbolt (SC). Treehugger version of scorching ray. It's not a touch attack, but same damage, and has an 18-20 crit range.