question about dragonfire strike.

[death390]

i was wondering if the feat dragonfire strike is a way to get sneak attack damage that normally doesn't hit. for example using a sneak attack on a undead doesn't work because its precision damage, but dragonfire strike replaces the damage type with fire (or w/e your dragon heritage energy type is) so that might enable the bonus damage to land.

i know that the idea of being able to hit undead/constructs/plants/ect with a critical or sneak attack but it not do anything is a controversial topic. my table says that you can do this. so i am unsure if the feat would switch from being precision damage to fire/acid/cold/ect damage and hurt things normally immune to sneak attack.

EDIT: its from dragon magic

"When you gain extra damage from a sneak arrack, sudden strike, or skirmish, you can choose for the extra damage to be fire damage. If you apply this effect, increase the extra damage dealt by ld6 points. Make this choice for each attack after it is resolved bur before damage is dealt. This is a supernatural ability."

[Bakkan]

Where is dragonfire strike from?

[umbergod]

Where is dragonfire strike from?

Dragon Magic

[Grod_The_Giant]

By RAW, I'd say no-- the key text there is "When you gain extra damage from a sneak arrack." If you don't get sneak attack in the first place, you don't get the extra damage.

By RAF, I'd say go for it.

[Nifft]

EDIT: its from dragon magic

"When you gain extra damage from a sneak arrack, sudden strike, or skirmish, you can choose for the extra damage to be fire damage. From the feat text, it looks like you only get the fire dice on attacks where normally you would have gotten Sneak Attack dice.

That said, it's a rather weak niche feat as written, and the house-rule enhancement to allow Sneak Attack on normally-inapplicable targets is not going to break the game, especially not if it's Fire damage.


By RAF, I'd say go for it. "Per Ardua ad Astra."

... sorry, could you explain what "RAF" means?

[DrMotives]

I can see it being ruled ok. So if the undead / construct / ooze you're fighting meets all the normal requirements for you to sneak attack it, your sneak attack goes off, but does 0 damage because that monster is immune. So then the dragonfire strike replaces that with something other than the precision damage and hurts the monster.

Of course, I've not heard this argument made for sneak attack with touch attack spells, that already can add sneak attack damage of whatever element the spell is. If disrupt undead can't do sneak attack damage, maybe dragonfire strike shouldn't work on them either.

[Grod_The_Giant]

... sorry, could you explain what "RAF" means?
Rules As Fun

[Troacctid]

Changing the damage type of your sneak attack doesn't get around immunities. If they're immune to sneak attack, they won't take sneak attack damage, even if it's fire damage. Sorry. This is unambiguously the RAW and pretty clearly the intent as well.

[Macabaret]

Changing the damage type of your sneak attack doesn't get around immunities. If they're immune to sneak attack, they won't take sneak attack damage, even if it's fire damage. Sorry. This is unambiguously the RAW and pretty clearly the intent as well.

This.

Dragonfire strike just changes the damage type of your sneak attack (or sudden strike or skirmish) damage (and adds a bit extra to it.) Whether your damage is slashing or fire or sonic or whathaveyou, it's still a precision attack. All sneak attack rules still apply.


for example using a sneak attack on a undead doesn't work because its precision damage, but dragonfire strike replaces the damage type with fire (or w/e your dragon heritage energy type is) so that might enable the bonus damage to land.

This logic does not work on a few levels.
Firstly, sneak attack doesn't work on undead because it's sneak attack. Whether or not the attack is a precision attack doesn't change anything about the undead's immunity.

Secondly, precision is not a damage type. Replacing the type of damage done (e.g. changing "slashing" to "fire") doesn't affect whether or not the attack is a precision attack. Which, really, only deals with volley rules.

So, in the end, changing the damage type from 'X' to 'fire' doesn't make any changes to whether or not the attack is a precision attack and doesn't change whether or not the attack is a sneak attack. If a rogue changes his handcrossbow bolt's damage to fire via dragonfire strike, the damage changes from 'piercing' to 'fire'. It is still a precision attack. It is still a sneak attack. And all rules for precision attack and sneak attacks still apply. That being said, if the rogue qualifies for a sneak attack against, say, a skeleton, s/he'd bypass it's damage reduction by changing the damage type.

[Kobold Esq]

A rogue with a wand of scorching ray can sneak attack a hill giant with it. The sneak attack damage is dealt as fire damage.

A rogue with a wand of scorching ray cannot sneak attack a skeleton with it. Undead are immune to sneak attack. The fact that the scorching ray deals fire damage is immaterial.