What Would You Change: Bard

[Specter]

Following the Barbarian thread, let's talk about what you would change in the inspiring ministrel.

BASE
Bardic Inspiration: I'd make it last for one hour. It's not a big change over 10 minutes, but it feels less arbitrary.

Expertise: throw musical instruments in there. A bard should be better at this than anyone else if he wants to.

Countercharm: I've seen many bards, but I've never seen any of them use ths, probably because it takes an action. Make it a bonus action.

Magical Secrets: let them be traded by other secrets, limiting their level (level 10 secrets can only be traded by 5th levelspells or lower, for instance). Sometimes people are unhappy with their choices, as with regular spells.

VALOR
- Include Fighting Style at level 3. I don't think it's necessary, but since Swords got it, I see no reason not to now.

GLAMOUR
- Mantle of Inspiration: these hit points seem like too much, considering they only cost an Inspiration die and can potentially be given to the entire party like Inspiring Leader.

That's it, I guess. Whaddyathink?

[MrStabby]

Countercharm is something that I think you underrate. Fighting vampires has made me appreciate this ability A LOT.

[mephnick]

I would make it not a full caster. I still think it's a decision that destroyed the bard's identity in 5e. There's an almost universally agreed hole in the spot of arcane half caster, but guess what? We had one, but they turned it into a full caster. The Bard is a strong class, but I hate it and think it's the worst designed class in the game because of how removed from it's fluff and tradition it is.

[djreynolds]

Countercharm is something that I think you underrate. Fighting vampires has made me appreciate this ability A LOT.

I just wish it was more than advantage.... maybe immunity. But not a bad ability, and heroism is actually better because it works versus dragon's even.

I just find, the players using a bard, early levels, are watching the wizard and sorcerer kick it with cantrips and are jealous.

You know a bard kinda needs charisma and str/dex, they can be a MAD class

[nickl_2000]

I think the most broken thing about bards is many tables. All the bull about the players playing bards actually singing when they are using their abilities. It's kind of crappy to be honest when they don't expect a fighter to strap on a set of Full plate and wield a sword.

As for the class itself I actually like it. The spell list is different than other casters. The identity of bards is different than it was in previous additions, with them being the ones that know everything, but I don't think its bad. With the addition of Xanathar's it pretty much films in the gaps I've felt were missing.

[Dudewithknives]

Bard is a well made class in my opinion, but I would change 3 things.

1. Magical secrets get to pick spells of lower levels not the level they get the ability.

Ex

Lore at 6 can pick spells up to level 3. Should be level 1.
@ 10 they get Level 2s
@ 14 level 3
@ 18 level 4

Letting then pick a level 3 spell from class x when they just got it the level before it too good for cherry picking.

2. School of Swords flourishes must be in melee.
If the school is called Swords, and they call them blade flourishes it should not work with a bow.

3. Give Valor a little something. They got the wind taken out of them with the college of swords.

[Hypersmith]

I would make it not a full caster. I still think it's a decision that destroyed the bard's identity in 5e. There's an almost universally agreed hole in the spot of arcane half caster, but guess what? We had one, but they turned it into a full caster. The Bard is a strong class, but I hate it and think it's the worst designed class in the game because of how removed from it's fluff and tradition it is.

I strongly agree. I like bards flavor, but even that flavor doesn't agree with it being a full caster imo. Bard should be a half caster with more effects like countercharm. That way it can be played with more versatility in flavor.

[JellyPooga]

I would make it not a full caster. I still think it's a decision that destroyed the bard's identity in 5e. There's an almost universally agreed hole in the spot of arcane half caster, but guess what? We had one, but they turned it into a full caster. The Bard is a strong class, but I hate it and think it's the worst designed class in the game because of how removed from it's fluff and tradition it is.

I think making the Bard a full-caster actually gave it a solid identity. In previous editions it has been a Fightery Thiefy Druid that was sort of like a Ranger, but plays a musical instrument, or it was a Thief with crap spells and crap thief-ery (and a musical instrument), or it was trying to be a spellcastery, sort of roguish, sort of fightery but not really, mish-mash of a piece of trash class, or whatever it was in 4ed (I don't recall it particularly, bit I didn't pay much attention to 4ed)...

...Making it a full-blown spellcaster with some nice adds made Bard a class that people actually want to play and enjoy playing for any reason but misguided fluff. They did it in a way that made them awesome too; no longer required to be an Elan-esque minstrel in a dungeon, the Bard has it's own share of badass. 5ed Bard finally got it right, in my opinion, with all the right shouts to its previous incarnations, like certain Druid spells being on his list and things like Expertise duplicating Rogue features but not in an intrusive way that made any other class obsolete.

As for what I'd improve;

- I'd like to see a little more divorce from the musical aspects. Simply renaming features like Song of Rest, or allowing them to use non-instrument arcane foci would be sufficient to eliminate the daft image they still carry. The class flavour text doesn't help here either, so I'd change that too, to include some non-prancy examples.

- I'd like them to be less resource dependent. As full-casters they have plenty of resource management going on without having to juggle Bardic Inspiration and the abilities triggered off of it too. I'm not sure what I'd change it to, but something along the lines of Invocations might be appropriate; less self buffs like Devils Sight though and more party oriented abilities like the Paladin Auras or that grants something like the Druids Lands Stride in an aura, perhaps. Haven't really thought it through, but the notion is there.

[Snivlem]

I agree countercharm should change somehow. Otherwise I think it's a very well-designed class and a huge improvement on earlier editions.

[djreynolds]

Countercharm's horrible. Everything else is good.

It is free, but I kind of agree. Its like a free calm emotions... that sucks

Now if affected players could out of turn, say as a reaction be allowed to reroll a wisdom save with advantage right then and there, it would be sweet.

Otherwise, you have to know something, like the Strahd example, is coming up and you begin singing this before hand and just have to keep it going every turn.

For me its spells or class abilities, yes calm emotions is a spell, but it fixes the issue whereas countercharm has to be used prior.

Its like poor Bob the bard in CoS has to sing the same song over and over again as we search through a scary castle for a coffin with a vampire in it. It this the intention?

[JakOfAllTirades]

I agree countercharm should change somehow. Otherwise I think it's a very well-designed class and a huge improvement on earlier editions.

It would be a lot more useful as a Reaction based class feature. Am I right?

[thoroughlyS]

I would make Bardic Inspiration a short rest resource from 1st level. I've only ever played one bard, and only having 3 dice per long rest was awful. For solo classed bards, this would make them feel like a much better supporter in Tier 1. For multiclassing, I feel like it doesn't truly effect the dipability of a bard: if you want Bardic Inspiration, then you're probably wanting Cutting Words/Blade Flourish.




VALOR
- Include Fighting Style at level 3. I don't think it's necessary, but since Swords got it, I see no reason not to now.
Maybe instead, give them the ability to treat their weapon as an arcane focus. This guarantees they can use their shield proficiency without eating their 4th level ASI.

[Specter]

Making BI recharge on short rests would make it the new Warlock for dips.


Maybe instead, give them the ability to treat their weapon as an arcane focus. This guarantees they can use their shield proficiency without eating their 4th level ASI.

Good call.

[Dr. Cliché]

I'd like the PHB to come with a free klaxon, which would sound to remind me about Cutting Words.

[thoroughlyS]

Making BI recharge on short rests would make it the new Warlock for dips.
I doubt enough people build for support to overshadow the self-improvements of warlock or fighter. In addition, low-level long rest casting is less useful for noncasters than low-level short rest casting, so it would only become more popular for like 4 classes.

[Phoenix042]

I doubt enough people build for support to overshadow the self-improvements of warlock or fighter. In addition, low-level long rest casting is less useful for noncasters than low-level short rest casting, so it would only become more popular for like 4 classes.

Strongly disagree here.

I've abandoned bard as a dip for almost a dozen builds because inspiration dice didn't recharge on a short rest till level 5, and in two builds, I just went all in and took it to 5 for that feature alone.

It'd be majorly broken if it recharged on a short rest at level 1.

[Talamare]

Valor - Battle Magic at Lv6 instead of 14

You don't even need Extra Attack if you have Battle Magic


Valor - Combat Inspiration
WHILE an ally is Inspired they deal an additional damage with their first attack each round equal to the size of the Inspiration dice.
In addition they can spend the Inspiration as a Reaction to gain d8 AC until the start of their turn.

[Specter]

Strongly disagree here.

I've abandoned bard as a dip for almost a dozen builds because inspiration dice didn't recharge on a short rest till level 5, and in two builds, I just went all in and took it to 5 for that feature alone.

It'd be majorly broken if it recharged on a short rest at level 1.

Yep.



Valor - Combat Inspiration
WHILE an ally is Inspired they deal an additional d8 damage with each of their attacks.
In addition they can spend the Inspiration as a Reaction to gain d8 AC until the start of their turn.

Way too strong.

[Talamare]

Way too strong.

Fine
Nerfed it to 1st attack each round

[thoroughlyS]

I've abandoned bard as a dip for almost a dozen builds because inspiration dice didn't recharge on a short rest till level 5, and in two builds, I just went all in and took it to 5 for that feature alone.
And doesn't it kind of suck that you had to rework those builds because the feature felt like it wasn't worth it at low levels? This one mechanic makes bards feel like an all-or-nothing class. Barbarian 2, Cleric 1, Druid 2, Fighter 2/3, Paladin 2, Rogue 1/2, Sorcerer 2, Warlock 2—these are all perfectly "dipable" for the iconic features they grant. If you had wanted Action Surge, you didn't have to take 5 levels in fighter to make it useful, it was useful when you got it.

It'd be majorly broken if it recharged on a short rest at level 1.
Assuming CHA 16 that means you would be able to affect 9 attacks/checks/saves total between long rests. In a party of 4, you grant inspiration to each ally once per short rest... Is that really more powerful than having an extra 1st-level spell slot each short rest?



Fine
Nerfed it to 1st attack each round
That's still way too powerful. That would be the most efficient use of Inspiration in the game. Considering the 10 minute duration, granting Bardic Inspiration to an ally in combat would mean having that extra 1d8 all combat. Not to mention that at 3rd level (when you'd get that feature) your allies probably only have one attack; you'd effectively boost their damage by 50% for an entire combat.

[Gardakan]

Bard is actually perfect in this state. Nothing to change about it.

They are strong in this edition, let them shine.

[Chunkosaurus]

Bard is actually perfect in this state. Nothing to change about it.

They are strong in this edition, let them shine.

Except for countercharm that feature is useless

[adolann]

I agree with everyone else about countercharm's problems. Not sure how I'd fix it, but it isn't very practical as is.

One thing I struggled with in smaller parties is the fact that Lore has horrible at will damage contribution (at least until 6th level, where you can use your secrets to grab a cantrip if you want; which really feels like a waste). I'm not sure what I'd do to fix it and stay balanced (give a "cantrip secret" when you select the subclass so you can grab something useful? make Vicious Mockery a bonus action for you?), but it was a problem for me in a small party. In a full sized party, it isn't as much a problem (where you can be the support character you are meant to be). With one of the most common multiclasses for Bard being 2 levels of Warlock just to get efficient at-will damage, I think it indicates something is at least a little amiss. Hell, if they'd put Toll The Dead on the Bard's list in Xanathar's, that would have covered this (for me, at least).

Also, put Counterspell on the normal Bard Spell List. Nine times out of ten, it is one of a Lore Bard's 6th level Magical Secrets. Get rid of the tax.

[KillingTime]

One thing I struggled with in smaller parties is the fact that Lore has horrible at will damage contribution (at least until 6th level, where you can use your secrets to grab a cantrip if you want; which really feels like a waste). I'm not sure what I'd do to fix it and stay balanced


I don't know why anyone would think this needs fixing.
Lore Bard is a support class, through and through. Let the other characters put out damage - your job is to make life easier for the other players and/or more difficult for the monsters and NPC.

Take the two most bardly spells at low levels.
Vicious Mockery may have tiny at-will damage, but the imposed disadvantage is golden.
Likewise the primary function of Dissonant Whispers isn't about putting primary damage on the enemy, but about battlefield control and forcing opportunity attacks.

There aren't many parties that wouldn't be happy to have a Lore Bard along with them. Regardless of their damage output, they seldom feel like they're not pulling their weight.
I appreciate this is slightly more of an issue at smaller party sizes, but you can't balance for every situation.

[JBPuffin]

My complaints about Bards are as follows:

They get Jack of All Trades AND Expertise. Rogues should be specialists, Bards generalists. Don't care if the progression is delayed or whatnot, there aren't that many skills for it to be reasonably different.
Bards, like Clerics, are full-casters who can also heal who can also self-buff and fight on the frontlines who can also BFC who can also...compared to the wizard and sorcerer, both classes have too much going for them, especially since both get expanded spell lists which give them access to the one or two niches their spell lists don't natively deal with. Bards ought to be half-casters (and clerics should natively be priests, not warpriests - that's a domain thing).


Haven't dealt with Countercharm, but considering I'd be cutting them to Paladin casting, it would make sense to buff it. Condensing Song of Rest and Bardic Inspiration so they scale at the same rate makes things neater while also opening up more class feature options reliant on it. Replace Expertise and Magical Secrets with cool performance abilities which would tie in to the BI die scaling.

[Dr. Cliché]

Countersong seems like it could do with a buff. Maybe in addition to its current effect it should also let affected allies retry their saves immediately (so that, if they succeed, their turn isn't wasted anyway).



They get Jack of All Trades AND Expertise. Rogues should be specialists, Bards generalists. Don't care if the progression is delayed or whatnot, there aren't that many skills for it to be reasonably different.

I'd agree with this.



Bards, like Clerics, are full-casters who can also heal who can also self-buff and fight on the frontlines who can also BFC who can also...compared to the wizard and sorcerer, both classes have too much going for them, especially since both get expanded spell lists which give them access to the one or two niches their spell lists don't natively deal with. Bards ought to be half-casters (and clerics should natively be priests, not warpriests - that's a domain thing).


Yeah, bards as full casters seems a little weird.

Quite honestly, though, I think the bard is a weird concept in general. By their very nature, I'd expect a bard to be someone who tells stories of adventurers, not someone who actually adventures themselves.

At the very least, I'm not sure it warrants its own class. Rather, it seems more like something that should be a subclass of Rogue and/or Barbarian (with the former being a traditional Jack-of-all-trades, perhaps similar to the Arcane Trickster, and the latter being a warrior who remembers and sings great sagas). I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but the bard just seems a bit of a mess to me, as far as concepts go. You're a full caster, but a sort of mix of cleric and mage, and you're also a jack-of-all-trades, and an expert as well, and then you're a musician, but you're also kind of a warrior.

It's like your that one guy who thought it would be a good idea to take one level from every class. :smallwink:

[Kryx]

Quite honestly, though, I think the bard is a weird concept in general. By their very nature, I'd expect a bard to be someone who tells stories of adventurers, not someone who actually adventures themselves.

At the very least, I'm not sure it warrants its own class. Rather, it seems more like something that should be a subclass of Rogue and/or Barbarian (with the former being a traditional Jack-of-all-trades, perhaps similar to the Arcane Trickster, and the latter being a warrior who remembers and sings great sagas). I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but the bard just seems a bit of a mess to me, as far as concepts go. You're a full caster, but a sort of mix of cleric and mage, and you're also a jack-of-all-trades, and an expert as well, and then you're a musician, but you're also kind of a warrior.
Fully agreed. I've done some refactoring of the Bard into my Minstrel which has both the 9th level casting Bard and 5th level casting Skald with more identity around Bardic Inspiration, but it still feels like this class doesn't really warrant a full class.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I think bards are one of the most fun classes in the game right now. Undoubtedly powerful, but their real power lies in their ability to help the rest of their party. When a player sits down and says "I'm going to play a bard", everyone else gets excited because this party just got awesome. It's a far cry from their roots as one of the most maligned classes.

Extending bardic inspiration sounds like a good idea. It's not overtly powerful, but will make their allies that much happier. I like it.

I think magical secrets should see restriction to full caster spell lists, the things they can poach from paladin and ranger are both too strong and kind of a kick in the teeth for the half-casters.

I'm not against them having expertise, but I am sort of against them getting the chance to get expertise in everything like a rogue can. All the social skills, sure. Instruments, it's weird that they can't already. Acrobatics, the knowledge skills, and sleight of hand- all of these things can be bard-ly. The rest really don't fit, and the rogues don't need bards stepping on their toes.

Valor could use some love and a fighting style is an easy, clean fix. I like this, too.

Glamour's not strong enough to nerf, in my opinion. They aren't embarrassingly weak or anything, but in comparison, I'm okay with them buffing the whole party with an ability. It keeps power gaming players from asking 'why the hell would you pick glamour?!'.

[Errata]

Glamour's not strong enough to nerf, in my opinion. They aren't embarrassingly weak or anything, but in comparison, I'm okay with them buffing the whole party with an ability. It keeps power gaming players from asking 'why the hell would you pick glamour?!'.

Agreed. They are a reasonable subclass pick, and their stronger than ordinary inspiration is an essential reason that they aren't totally outclassed by Lore. Lore is very strong, so if you weaken alternatives without touching that, you're just railroading all non-melee Bards into a single subclass. Mantle of Majesty is powerful, but it's one time per day, and I wouldn't pick a subclass for something I can only do once per day. The inspiration makes it useful throughout the day.

Enthralling performance is moderately interesting for roleplaying out of combat, but has negligible combat implications (unless people have a mistaken idea about what charm does in 5e and thinks it still works like older editions). It doesn't really let you do much that your social skills wouldn't already allow, it just improves your odds. The fluff about them idolizing you is a bit stronger than some other charm fluff, but it's still just a highly ambiguous roleplaying bonus.

Whispers is all non-combat roleplaying stuff like Enthralling Performance, which makes it a difficult pick for a combat heavy game, not a strong alternative to Lore.

[Talamare]

That's still way too powerful. That would be the most efficient use of Inspiration in the game. Considering the 10 minute duration, granting Bardic Inspiration to an ally in combat would mean having that extra 1d8 all combat. Not to mention that at 3rd level (when you'd get that feature) your allies probably only have one attack; you'd effectively boost their damage by 50% for an entire combat.

It's a Subclass defining feature. It SHOULD be powerful
It's significantly less powerful than other Subclass defining features such as Wolf Barbarian.

You do NOT "boost their damage by 50%"
on average you're basically looking at around 1d8+2d6+3 damage base at level 3 and there are a LOT of ways to improve that...
So 14.5 damage, adding another 1d6 only makes it 18 damage. That's less than a 25% damage boost at level 3
Oh, and it's 1d6 at level 3, it doesn't become 1d8 until level 5!

At level 5 it gets weaker, despite it getting 'stronger', as most classes get 2nd attack

Now you're expecting them to be doing 1d8 + 2x2d6+4, or 26.5
Now your 4.5 damage buff is only a 17% damage buff

"That would be the most efficient use of Inspiration in the game."
Really? It would be more efficient than using Inspiration to make an ally succeed their deception check to convince the King to grant you double the gold payment?
It would be more efficient than using Inspiration to stealth past the Orc Camp?
etc

Inspiration is more than just a Combat Buff, but this is important.
Valor is INTENDED to be the King of Battle Inspiration... Yet they completely fail at their jobs.

So now we have College of Swords that is the Master of Personal Combat
Whispers that is the Master of Assassination and Subterfuge
Glamour that is a Master of Illusions and Deceptions

and Valor... that can do Archery okay I guess for a few levels?

This is not an overpowering buff. It will make them fairly powerful, I'm not denying it.
However it is not only a needed buff, but also one that would be fairly character defining.

[Specter]

It's a Subclass defining feature. It SHOULD be powerful
It's significantly less powerful than other Subclass defining features such as Wolf Barbarian.

You do NOT "boost their damage by 50%"
on average you're basically looking at around 1d8+2d6+3 damage base at level 3 and there are a LOT of ways to improve that...
So 14.5 damage, adding another 1d6 only makes it 18 damage. That's less than a 25% damage boost at level 3
Oh, and it's 1d6 at level 3, it doesn't become 1d8 until level 5!

At level 5 it gets weaker, despite it getting 'stronger', as most classes get 2nd attack

Now you're expecting them to be doing 1d8 + 2x2d6+4, or 26.5
Now your 4.5 damage buff is only a 17% damage buff

"That would be the most efficient use of Inspiration in the game."
Really? It would be more efficient than using Inspiration to make an ally succeed their deception check to convince the King to grant you double the gold payment?
It would be more efficient than using Inspiration to stealth past the Orc Camp?
etc

Inspiration is more than just a Combat Buff, but this is important.
Valor is INTENDED to be the King of Battle Inspiration... Yet they completely fail at their jobs.

So now we have College of Swords that is the Master of Personal Combat
Whispers that is the Master of Assassination and Subterfuge
Glamour that is a Master of Illusions and Deceptions

and Valor... that can do Archery okay I guess for a few levels?

This is not an overpowering buff. It will make them fairly powerful, I'm not denying it.
However it is not only a needed buff, but also one that would be fairly character defining.

What you're overlooking is the fact that Lore's Cutting Words COSTS an Inspiration. Every time you're using it, it's one less party member inspired. Other Bard subclasses get an alternative to Bardic Inspiration; Valor gets Bardic Inspiration 2.0. Nothing wrong with that.

[thoroughlyS]

It's a Subclass defining feature. It SHOULD be powerful
It's significantly less powerful than other Subclass defining features such as Wolf Barbarian.
It would be strictly superior to a Ranger Hunter's comparable ability—Colossus Slayer. 1d8 for one character vs 1d6+ on potentially multiple characters. This really changes things at 5th level, where you could easily plunk down 2 Inspirations for every combat.

You do NOT "boost their damage by 50%"
on average you're basically looking at around 1d8+2d6+3 damage base at level 3 and there are a LOT of ways to improve that...
So 14.5 damage, adding another 1d6 only makes it 18 damage. That's less than a 25% damage boost at level 3
Oh, and it's 1d6 at level 3, it doesn't become 1d8 until level 5!
You've got me here. I forgot it started as a d6 for that post. Your comparison however, is pretty skewed, going off of a Rogue with Sneak Attack dice (one of the best damage dealers at that level), and not a more general baseline. When I made my post I was thinking about people who deal 1d8 + 3 damage, like sword'n'board users, archers, and monks. Average damage for them is 7.5, so a d6 would give them a 46.67% damage boost. Even a great weapon fighter's average damage is 11.33, so this would be a 30.89% boost.


"That would be the most efficient use of Inspiration in the game."
Really? It would be more efficient than using Inspiration to make an ally succeed their deception check to convince the King to grant you double the gold payment?
It would be more efficient than using Inspiration to stealth past the Orc Camp?
etc
Efficient in terms of rolls affected vs resources spent. How many rolls did your ally have to make while sneaking into the war camp? If they're moving from shadow to shadow that should require more than one stealth roll. Wouldn't it be great if, while they were holding on to your Inspiration, they could add 1d6 to a skill check once per round?


Inspiration is more than just a Combat Buff, but this is important.
Valor is INTENDED to be the King of Battle Inspiration... Yet they completely fail at their jobs.
I am very much aware that Inspiration is more than a combat buff, and I agree that half of combat inspiration (adding to damage) is pretty awful. Adding to AC is roughly comparable to half of Cutting Words (subtracting from attack rolls). But the change you proposed would completely change how Inspiration dice are used. Every other college, even Swords, expends a die to have an instantaneous effect. You roll the die, and it's gone.

[BoutsofInsanity]

I would grant them an ability to use a bardic inspiration to cast a spell subtly. Specifically to be able to cast charm spells in conversation.

[UrielAwakened]

Bring more of the leadership-type abilities from 4e back so Bards felt more like their own thing and less like a jack of all trades.

[Sigreid]

I would take away their expertise. I think that it's one too many shiny toys, and really the nicest toy rogues have.

Thinking about it I think Jack of All Trades should be the rogue's toy as well.

[Vogie]

I would grant them an ability to use a bardic inspiration to cast a spell subtly. Specifically to be able to cast charm spells in conversation.

I would second this. Having really niche metamagic should be a thing. Maybe bake into the Countercharm ability at 6?


I would take away their expertise. I think that it's one too many shiny toys, and really the nicest toy rogues have.

Thinking about it I think Jack of All Trades should be the rogue's toy as well.

I think Both classes should have the choice of EITHER Jack of all trades OR Expertise. Either class being forced into one, the other, or both, seems off

[polymphus]

Clarification of how their spellcasting actually works.

You've got an instrument, which is your focus. That's all we know. Is playing it a somatic component? Do bards have special holsters to quickly stow/draw their instruments/weapons?

I mean, the class with the largest and most unwieldy focus happens to be a gish and there's a lot of ambiguity in how that should play out in the rules.

[Talamare]

It would be strictly superior to a Ranger Hunter's comparable ability—Colossus Slayer. 1d8 for one character vs 1d6+ on potentially multiple characters. This really changes things at 5th level, where you could easily plunk down 2 Inspirations for every combat.

You've got me here. I forgot it started as a d6 for that post. Your comparison however, is pretty skewed, going off of a Rogue with Sneak Attack dice (one of the best damage dealers at that level), and not a more general baseline. When I made my post I was thinking about people who deal 1d8 + 3 damage, like sword'n'board users, archers, and monks. Average damage for them is 7.5, so a d6 would give them a 46.67% damage boost. Even a great weapon fighter's average damage is 11.33, so this would be a 30.89% boost.


Efficient in terms of rolls affected vs resources spent. How many rolls did your ally have to make while sneaking into the war camp? If they're moving from shadow to shadow that should require more than one stealth roll. Wouldn't it be great if, while they were holding on to your Inspiration, they could add 1d6 to a skill check once per round?


I am very much aware that Inspiration is more than a combat buff, and I agree that half of combat inspiration (adding to damage) is pretty awful. Adding to AC is roughly comparable to half of Cutting Words (subtracting from attack rolls). But the change you proposed would completely change how Inspiration dice are used. Every other college, even Swords, expends a die to have an instantaneous effect. You roll the die, and it's gone.
Sounds like Colossus Slayer needs a buff

It's not really skewed as I said there are higher damage examples
PAM for example would be 14.5
Monks would be 12 base, but can Flurry for 17
GWF Barb would be 10 but with significantly higher accuracy
Warlock pushes 12
Ranger pushes 12 with higher accuracy

basically, 7.5 is the baseline for Tanks and Non Damage Dealers.
On average, we could say it's a 30% damage boost for Damage Dealers. Which I still don't think is game breaking. Just noticeable.

In terms of Significant Rolls Affected vs Resources Spent. Significant Rolls matter, adding a bit of damage in combat are not Significant Rolls. Adding a result changing boon to an Important check is a Significant Roll.

It 100% doesn't bother me that we are adding a different functionality to an existing resource or mechanic. Just look at Spore Druid in the UA.
I suppose tho, it might only be fair to Lore Bard to remove the potential AC boost as well. Despite the Lore Bard one being quite more useful.
Making it strictly a powerful damage buff.

Speaking of Lore Bards...
Cutting Words - Remove the "after you see the roll but before knowing if the results was a success or failure." - Making it just "After seeing the result."

It's basically how it already works for every single other similar ability.
Not to mention its horribly awkward to play with with how its currently worded.


You've got me here. I forgot it started as a d6 for that post.

I doubled checked my suggestion again, I did write d8. So I was in the wrong, tho I did intend for it to be the same damage die as the Inspiration. Oh well.