Is there any way to make a D&D Lich's phylactory unbreakable?

[FoIded_Phoenix]

so, i'm thinking in the next D&D game me and my friends have(our 2nd game with these people, me being in almost all of them and us getting too op in this 1 for it to be fun anymore) and i'm thinking of being a dread necromancer, warlock or a death master or even a combo even if they allow it.. but even if they don't it would be something to know for use later on in case any of my other characters wanna be 1 anytime in the future. I mean I have heard of using stuff like river-something but have no idea what it is. also we are(in this game) primarily using 1e ad&d stuff(unearthed arcana is counted) but are open to using things from up to 3.5e if necessary. any ideas?

Edit:I may even be able to get them to let me use up to 5e spells/artifacts.

Edit: we are actually gonna do a fully 3.5e campaign, although the more I think about it with me multiclassing and the fact that they turn into liches at lvl 20.... I may have to just forget about this dream.

[RFLS]

From a 3.5 perspective, the best you can do is make it invisible and immune to divination attempts, then give it an immunity to, say, fire damage, and then toss it in a volcano.

That being said...if you're backporting all the way from 3.5, you might as well push for homebrew on this one.

[Anymage]

Open up a wish farm, and use your arbitrarily large number of wishes to cover any contingency plan you can think of.

Really, though, this sounds like you're just asking to be booted from the table. Theoretical op is fun to discuss in a vacuum. Unbeatable enemies are no fun, and unbeatable PCs are just asking the DM to have a passing overdeity squash you. Be a necromancer if that's what tickles your fancy. But make someone who's a team player. And when it's time for them to become the paranoid boss monster, that's not the time to try swaddling them in layers of unchallengable rules. That's the time for you to retire and roll up someone new.

[FoIded_Phoenix]

I dunno... maybe make it with only a few specific ways of destruction... like being thrown into some kind of void or something? but maybe just make it immune to all but acid or something? I don't know?
maybe I could just make it destroyable by me and then some illusionist or something comes along and makes me think its something we're on a quest to destroy or something? at this point its basically thinking of ways to minimize ways to destroy it...
I mean I don't want to get kicked from the table but I want it to be less vulnerable than usual.

[The Glyphstone]

Just make it well hidden and well guarded. The actual act of destruction is an afterthought, the challenge and the adventure is in getting to it in the first place.

[Brookshw]

From a 3.5 perspective, the best you can do is make it invisible and immune to divination attempts, then give it an immunity to, say, fire damage, and then toss it in a volcano.

Eh, Aleax shenanigans could make it invulnerable (heck, you could do that then become it if you really wanted to).

But that, or even an indestructible phylactory, don't really belong in a game and I'd ban such shenanigans. YMMV.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Eh, Aleax shenanigans could make it invulnerable (heck, you could do that then become it if you really wanted to).

But that, or even an indestructible phylactory, don't really belong in a game and I'd ban such shenanigans. YMMV.

Why? An unbreakable phylactery sounds like a great way to make players get creative. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/wpxGTq8_QCH1Rp4oLedGXdNSTR9_7sYjSsLJ-Nu7MaJH1vVSfVK6BaS2HkHjHVr10Q1FYOTTCld4=s1600)

[Knaight]

From a 3.5 perspective, the best you can do is make it invisible and immune to divination attempts, then give it an immunity to, say, fire damage, and then toss it in a volcano.

You respawn at the location of the phylactery - this effectively makes you mortal again, at least until that lava actually surfaces, and that's assuming that it doesn't just get crushed by pressure by going deep first.

[comk59]

Immune to damage is sort of a moot point, tbh. Few things survive portable hole + bag of holding.

And even if you CAN'T destroy it, they could just leave it in the positive energy plane. Pretty sure even liches need to prepare spells, which is hard to do when you're being torn apart by the plane itself.

Honestly, if you really wanted a perfect phylactery, make it a piece of gravel. Magically reinforce it, hide its magical aura, and drop it on a back road somewhere. Then walk around with magical disguise so people don't automatically assume you're a lich.

[Xuc Xac]

If you want to be indestructible, you leave your soul alone and don't become a lich. When your body dies, your soul moves on.

If you want to maintain a physical form indefinitely, you become a lich by giving your soul a physical form. It's a trade-off.

You're basically asking "How can I make a sacrifice without giving anything up?" You can't.

[Malimar]

Immune to damage is sort of a moot point, tbh. Few things survive portable hole + bag of holding.
That destroys the hole and the bag, but the contents of both are scattered unharmed on the Astral Plane. Which is actually a decent suggestion for the lich to hide the phylactery in the first place -- it's very hard to find something lost on the Astral Plane.

[iceman10058]

That destroys the hole and the bag, but the contents of both are scattered unharmed on the Astral Plane. Which is actually a decent suggestion for the lich to hide the phylactery in the first place -- it's very hard to find something lost on the Astral Plane.

Except it has to stay on the same plane you are on, or it doesnt bring you back. Thats kinda how i deal with liches. Open a gate to anywhere and toss it in then kill him.

[Lord Torath]

Except it has to stay on the same plane you are on, or it doesnt bring you back. Thats kinda how i deal with liches. Open a gate to anywhere and toss it in then kill him.So Xykon hiding his phylactery in a fortress on the Astral Plane will actually not have the intended result? Or wouldn't, if Rich was using AD&D rules?

[Grek]

Polymorph Any Object it into a copy of your mortal self and have them ascend to lichdom using you as their phylactery.

[The Glyphstone]

So Xykon hiding his phylactery in a fortress on the Astral Plane will actually not have the intended result? Or wouldn't, if Rich was using AD&D rules?

I think Iceman is referring specifically to the local houserules of his game. That clause exists nowhere in the actual printed rules for a 3.5 lich, though it might have been different in older versions.

[RFLS]

Eh, Aleax shenanigans could make it invulnerable (heck, you could do that then become it if you really wanted to).

But that, or even an indestructible phylactory, don't really belong in a game and I'd ban such shenanigans. YMMV.

Oof. Yea, I'd forgotten Aleax shenanigans (or may not have ever been very familiar with them). I haven't played straight 3.5 in a while.


You respawn at the location of the phylactery - this effectively makes you mortal again, at least until that lava actually surfaces, and that's assuming that it doesn't just get crushed by pressure by going deep first.

Hey, I didn't say it was a *great* idea. It just approaches answering the question.

[Wasteomana]

One of the interesting twists here might be the 'problem' with Wolverine level immunity to things. If you can't be killed but only trapped there is a minute chance you will be trapped by something that gets you stuck somewhere (like the bottom of the ocean). Given enough time that minute chance becomes a near certainty. So.... what then? I now want to have a lich who found out how to be truly invincible trapped somewhere for all eternity and see about having the players interact with that particular prison (which is designed to keep the lich alive through all possible means).

[FabulousFizban]

no dm would allow it

[ross]

making your phylactery out of an immovable rod at least solves the "stuck at bottom of X" problem; then you'd want to make it totally immune to any and all forms of extra-dimensional travel, including dimensional rifts (as from hole + holding); recommend perma-shrinking the rod to the size of a neutron so that it's impossible to find, then using wishes to make it invulnerable to everything.

[Bohandas]

One of the interesting twists here might be the 'problem' with Wolverine level immunity to things. If you can't be killed but only trapped there is a minute chance you will be trapped by something that gets you stuck somewhere (like the bottom of the ocean). Given enough time that minute chance becomes a near certainty. So.... what then? I now want to have a lich who found out how to be truly invincible trapped somewhere for all eternity and see about having the players interact with that particular prison (which is designed to keep the lich alive through all possible means).
After enough time they'd probably be freed by accident too, like Rita Repulsa

[Wasteomana]

After enough time they'd probably be freed by accident too, like Rita Repulsa

Yeah, could be an interesting bit to add to a campaign.

Also... dat reference **smacks lips**

[The Glyphstone]

Lich: "After ten thousand years I'm free! Time to conquer Golarion!"

Rovagug: "Ahem...get in line."

[RFLS]

no dm would allow it

That's a pretty bold claim. I think tippy, for one, would beg to differ.

[Calthropstu]

Immune to damage is sort of a moot point, tbh. Few things survive portable hole + bag of holding.

And even if you CAN'T destroy it, they could just leave it in the positive energy plane. Pretty sure even liches need to prepare spells, which is hard to do when you're being torn apart by the plane itself.

Honestly, if you really wanted a perfect phylactery, make it a piece of gravel. Magically reinforce it, hide its magical aura, and drop it on a back road somewhere. Then walk around with magical disguise so people don't automatically assume you're a lich.

The "hidden in plain sight" thing works great until you need to respawn... which is the whole point of the phylactory.

Similarly, a mobile phylactory suffers a similar problem, as well as a phylactory tossed in unsurvivable or unspawnable conditions. Hell, tossing a phylactory in a tiny metal box is enough to shut it off since it can't spawn you.

[Psyren]

By RAW, it's game statistics remain the same regardless of form.

If you want to be invincible that badly, lichdom is for amateurs; be something like a Ghost with unfulfillable purpose instead.

[Bohandas]

The "hidden in plain sight" thing works great until you need to respawn... which is the whole point of the phylactory.

Similarly, a mobile phylactory suffers a similar problem, as well as a phylactory tossed in unsurvivable or unspawnable conditions. Hell, tossing a phylactory in a tiny metal box is enough to shut it off since it can't spawn you.

Tell that to Koschei the Deathless

[The Glyphstone]

Tell that to Koschei the Deathless

IIRC, Koschei didn't 'respawn' from his phylactery the way modern-day liches do. He was simply invincible/unkillable by any conventional method as long as his soul was safely hidden away.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I had a cleric in pf who used miracle to disable the phylactory’s ability to revive the Lich. Basically turning it into a soul gem.

[Reboot]

How about going interplanetary? Get a really good telescope, focus it on the surface of the Moon (or, hell, Mars) for somewhere to land, and then Greater Teleport there (lich = no need to breathe/worry about radiation/etc). Then make a Permanency'd Mage’s Private Sanctum in a nice, deep crater near one of the poles on the Far Side against detection and a Permanancy'd Prismatic Sphere inside that in case of asteroid impact or other things deleterious to the phylactery.


I had a cleric in pf who used miracle to disable the phylactory’s ability to revive the Lich. Basically turning it into a soul gem.

Did he wear it on his forehead thereafter? :p

[Calthropstu]

Did he wear it on his forehead thereafter? :p

Isn't that the premise of Diablo?

[Reboot]

Isn't that the premise of Diablo?
I was thinking Adam Warlock.