What Class Gets the Most from their Subclasses?

[strangebloke]

Some classes get a lot from their subclasses. Some get... significantly less. What's the breakdown? I looked at each of the subclasses and ranked them, measuring the scale of the features they provide with the following metric.

I ranked the potency of each 'level' of each subclass from 1-4, with 1 being anemic or situational, and 3 being strong, and 4 being game changing when you get it. A 1 is somewhere between a ribbon and an expanded spell list, and a 4 is something on the order of paladin 6's aura effect or a rogue's sneak attack.

I'm not considering effects past level 16 because that is uncharted territory for me. I've neither played in a game that high level, nor have I ever met anyone IRL who has.

This is a very crude method, but I didn't want to waste too much time on this.

Here are the results for my calculation of Subclass strength:
1. Ranger (14)
2. Bard (11)
3. Fighter (10)
4. Paladin (10)
5. Cleric (10)
6. Druid (9)
7. Wizard (9)
8. Sorcerer (8)
9. Warlock (8)
10. Barbarian (7)
11. Rogue (6)
12. Monk(6)

What do you all think the ranking should be?

Here's my rambling, probably flawed look at everything:

Barbarian
Level 3: Rage bonus (2) -- Totem Barb also gets a minor out of combat bonus.
Level 6: Small, always-active bonus, or defensive rage bonus. (2)
Level 10: Out of combat utility (1) -- Zealot and Berserker get more at this level. For them, this is a 2.
Level 14: Reaction attack or an opportunity to inflict a status effect. (2) -- Zealot once again gets a better deal
final score: 7

Bard
Level 3: Bardic Inspiration Ability (3)
Level 3: Extra Proficiency (1)
Level 6: Key Ability (4)
Level 14: Strong Thematic ability (3)
Final score: 11

The whispers bard is ultra situational, so that messes up this analysis.

Cleric
Level 1: Bonus Proficiencies/Cantrips (1)
Level 1: Bonus Spells Known (2)
Level 1: Mediocre themed ability (1)
Level 2: Channel Divinity (2)
Level 6: Mediocre Combat ability (2)
Level 8: Damage bonus (2)
Final Score: 8

Druid
Level 2: New/Better resources (4)
Level 6: Minor Utility Ability (1) -- Shepherd does much better here than her peers.
Level 10: Improvement to Level 2 feature (3)
Level 14: Potent, Situational ability (1)
Final Score: 9

Fighter
Level 3: New Resource Pool (4)
Level 3: Ribbon (1)
Level 7: Ribbon/Skill bonus (1)
Level 10: Minor Feature w/ Synergy to level 3 feature (2)
Level 15: At-will debuff/resource refresh (2)
Final Score: 10

Might be too high. Fighter archetypes are heavily frontloaded.

Monk
Level 3: Improvement to Flurry of Blows and/or attack action (2)
Level 6: New Ki and/or at-will Ability (2)
Level 11: New Ki or at-will Ability (2)
Final Score: 6

Paladin
Level 3: Bonus Spells Known (2)
Level 3: Channel Divinity (2)
Level 7: Aura/Reaction improvement: (4)--Redemption gets a 2 here, and vpally gets a 3. Devotion, Ancients, and Conquest are all very strong.
Level 15: various (2)
final score: 10

Ranger
Level 3: Bonus Spells Known (2)
Level 3: At-will Damage (3)
Level 3: At-will utility (2)
Level 7: Defensive Boost (2)
Level 11: Some form of extra attack (4)
Level 15: At-will Defense (2)
final score: 14

Perhaps unsurprisingly, hunter and beastmaster come out a few points behind their peers, since both only get one feature at level 3.

Rogue
Level 3: Bonus Action Option/Assassinate/Footwork:(2)
Level 3: Ribbon (1)
Level 9: Ribbon (1) ~or~ combat skill usage (2)
Level 13: Ribbon (1) ~or~ combat skill usage (2)
final score: 6

Arcane Trickster obviously has a different distribution than the others. Overall I think they're the strongest rogue archetype, but that's just me. The abilities for rogues are very non-uniform, so this ranking is less meaningful than some.

Sorcerer
Level 1: Ribbon (1)
Level 1: Defensive Boost (2)
Level 6: Offensive Boost ~or~ new metamagic option (2)
Level 14: At-Will Mobility Boost (3)
final score: 8

Storm and Shadow have a much stronger level 18 than the other two, and Shadow gets darkness at level three which is a (2) ability. Shadow is very strong overall. Divine soul has better early abilities, but falls behind a bit at level six because empowered healing is not great.I didn't consider Wild Magic Sorc here. Overall, the sorcerer's features are heavily loaded onto the back end.

Warlock
Level 1: Expanded spell list (1)
Level 1: SR-based combat ability (2)
Level 6: SR-based defensive ability (2)
Level 10: Situational Defensive Boost (1)
Level 14: Offensive spell effect (2)
final score: 8

Unsure how to rank these because SR usage varies a lot from table to table. The hexblade is a bit stronger than the others IMO, getting more at level 1 and more overall.

Wizard
Level 2: 'x' Savant (1)
Level 2: Strong Ability (2)
Level 6: Weak ability (1)
Level 10: Strong Ability (2)
Level 14: Capstone (3)
Final score: 9

Sometimes the strong ability comes at level 6 instead of level 2. Sometimes (as for divination wizard) both the level 6 and the level 2 abilities are potent. Either way, the 14th level ability is almost always incredibly powerful. The wizard has spells, robust archetypes and... naught else. Their only default class features before level 18 are arcane recovery, spellcasting, and ASI.

[Squiddish]

I'd say in terms of power this is pretty accurate, with a couple exceptions.
Notably, Cleric is getting a lot more from their subclass than this suggests, since you completely forgot to figure in their domain spells

A lot of the changes by subclasses are more to the flavor or playstyle than to the actual abilities, at least from what I've seen.

[mephnick]

I think the Fighter probably gets less quality out of their subclass. The base is pretty damn solid. Most of their power and versatility comes from attacks and ASIs. I agree monk is the lowest. I could play one without a subclass and still enjoy it.

[ImproperJustice]

I think the Fighter probably gets less quality out of their subclass. The base is pretty damn solid. Most of their power and versatility comes from attacks and ASIs. I agree monk is the lowest. I could play one without a subclass and still enjoy it.

I agree with this, and on the flipside support that the Ranger gets the most since their base line features are just so poor they may as well not exist.

[strangebloke]

I'd say in terms of power this is pretty accurate, with a couple exceptions.
Notably, Cleric is getting a lot more from their subclass than this suggests, since you completely forgot to figure in their domain spells

A lot of the changes by subclasses are more to the flavor or playstyle than to the actual abilities, at least from what I've seen.
I did miss that and I don't know how. That puts them up there with druid. I'll fix that tomorrow. Need to sleep now.

yeah this is more or less the case. Even the ranger, which gets so much from its subclasses, tends to basically get the same abilities with different names tacked on. Most of them get some form of extra attack, late-game defensive ability, etc.

I think the Fighter probably gets less quality out of their subclass. The base is pretty damn solid. Most of their power and versatility comes from attacks and ASIs. I agree monk is the lowest. I could play one without a subclass and still enjoy it.
I could rate fighter lower. As it stands I rated their level 3 ability very highly because it gives them a pretty sizeable resource pool to burn through (if they aren't a champion) but while the BM's superiority die are great, the Samurai's fighting spirit, the AA's arcane shot, and the Champion's improved critical are all good, but possibly aren't as good as I rated them.


I agree with this, and on the flipside support that the Ranger gets the most since their base line features are just so poor they may as well not exist.
Eh, extra attack and spellcasting are good! ...Other than that they're pretty limited.

[Nidgit]

I'd probably rate Sorcerer lower and Rogue a bit higher. Half the Rogue classes are pretty minor, but others like Arcane Trickster and Swashbuckler make some serious changes to playstyle. Barbarian is stronger but still functionally the same no matter the subclass.

[MrStabby]

I would rate druid top, probably followed by cleric.

Moon druid wildshape for example. A massively potent subclass ability. Land druid gets "domain spells" to be a much more flexible caster and more castings per day through natural recovery.

Cleric domains are also really powerful. Level 1 heavy armour and martial weapon proficiency? That's a couple of feats right there as a subclass feature. Potent spellcasting is similar.

Domain spells are big - even the ones on the cleric list already free up preparation slots. The ones not on the cleric list can have huge in game effects - looking at light and trickery domains for a start.

Other abilities like the channel divinity can be a bit situational (or, to look at subclasses like the knowledge cleric, awesome) but add to a really strong base.

[strangebloke]

I'd probably rate Sorcerer lower and Rogue a bit higher. Half the Rogue classes are pretty minor, but others like Arcane Trickster and Swashbuckler make some serious changes to playstyle. Barbarian is stronger but still functionally the same no matter the subclass.

3 of the rogue subclasses get what I'd consider to be pretty minor bonuses at level three, two get useful, if not insane abilities (assassin, swashbuckler) and the AT gets 1/3 spellcasting.

After 3rd level, most rogues basically get ribbons from their subclass. I could revisit the level 3 ability, but I think overall that I have it about right for them. Barbarian Paths don't get much more, but they do get a few pretty nice mechanical bonuses.


I would rate druid top, probably followed by cleric.

Moon druid wildshape for example. A massively potent subclass ability. Land druid gets "domain spells" to be a much more flexible caster and more castings per day through natural recovery.

Cleric domains are also really powerful. Level 1 heavy armour and martial weapon proficiency? That's a couple of feats right there as a subclass feature. Potent spellcasting is similar.

Domain spells are big - even the ones on the cleric list already free up preparation slots. The ones not on the cleric list can have huge in game effects - looking at light and trickery domains for a start.

Other abilities like the channel divinity can be a bit situational (or, to look at subclasses like the knowledge cleric, awesome) but add to a really strong base.

If you look at my justification portion, you'll note that I rate the first circle ability as a '4,' which is the highest I rate anything in this quick look at subclass balance. I think Druids get a lot at that level. They usually get a feature at 10 that makes that really good feature even better, which I also rated highly (3). At the other two levels where they get bonuses... eh. They aren't so impressive.

Cleric didn't have their bonus spells factored in so I'm going to fix that now.

[MrStabby]

Well there are a lot of different moon druid abilities.

Bonus action transformation is one and each upgrade of the forms available above the land druid is another. If you cap the score an ability is worth at 4 then of course whoever has an ability worth more than this looks bad.

[strangebloke]

Well there are a lot of different moon druid abilities.

Bonus action transformation is one and each upgrade of the forms available above the land druid is another. If you cap the score an ability is worth at 4 then of course whoever has an ability worth more than this looks bad.

I wrote out my whole justification for each feature, if you have an issue with anything specific, I'd be interested. I also tried to look at the totality of the classes rather than just one specific one at each level.

More to the point, do you actually think druid's get more from their subclass than a ranger?

A 'naked' druid with no subclass is still a full spellcaster with wildshape.

A 'naked' ranger with no subclass is a 1/2 spellcaster with a pitiful spell list who gets extra attack and basically nothing else.

The druid base class is much stronger than the ranger base class. If you're arguing that druid subclasses are also better than ranger subclasses, you're arguing that druids are massively stronger than rangers. That's a position you can take but... eh, I disagree. Ranger get's a third attack, at will damage, and usually one pretty potent defensive ability from its subclass, along with bonus spells known and some sick at-will utility.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I would rate druid top, probably followed by cleric.

It's rangers on top for me, with cleric & druid close behind.

The OP's rating system seems kind of arbitrary... Personally I don't think bards get that much from their colleges, and wizards should be propping up the table for sure. As someone who writes a lot of homebrew, I feel I have to be much more careful about what I give to wizards and sorcerers than anyone else. Druids, clerics, rangers and fighters are where you can really go crazy with subclass abilities; the other 6 classes are more or less on an equal footing.

[Waazraath]

Shouldn't the paladin capstone also a be seen as a part of their subclass?

[strangebloke]

It's rangers on top for me, with cleric & druid close behind.

The OP's rating system seems kind of arbitrary... Personally I don't think bards get that much from their colleges, and wizards should be propping up the table for sure. As someone who writes a lot of homebrew, I feel I have to be much more careful about what I give to wizards and sorcerers than anyone else. Druids, clerics, rangers and fighters are where you can really go crazy with subclass abilities; the other 6 classes are more or less on an equal footing.

It is arbitrary, but I don't know how you'd make it less so. It isn't like with races where most of the abilities are analogous to feats. Really I just wanted to see what everyone thought, and I figured the best way to do that was to state my own thoughts and see what everyone said.

I think, looking over this, I'm seeing some of my biases more clearly. I really overrated extra attack, for example. Extra attack is critical for martial classes, but only when combined with all their other features. Valor bard doesn't get much use out of it, for instance. So bard probably needs to get knocked down a few points.

Wizards actually do get a fair amount, though. For example, the bladesinger gets ludicrous movement and AC. The abjurer gets a pool from which he can (effectively) heal. The necromancer gets an incredibly strong buff to minionmancy. Their base class is completely devoid of features other than their (very very good) spellcasting, but the subclasses are actually reasonably strong IMO.

I'm AFB at the moment, so I'll steer clear of my thoughts on druid until I can articulate them better. Still if multiple more experienced forum dwellers disagree, I should probably reevaluate, yeah?


Shouldn't the paladin capstone also a be seen as a part of their subclass?
I didn't consider abilities past 16. Once 9th level spells are in play... things are a bit off the hook.