dsp/tank build

[Amdy_vill]

i just had my character die and our party needs a dps/tank so what would the best build be. we are an evil party

Edit:
your party is warforged barbarian, human druid, catfolk dread necromancer
we are level 3 right now.
no dragon magazine
no campaign setting books
expected end level 15-20(probable should build 15 with suggestions for 20 levels )
tank(some one with lots of health or high ac)
dps(i would prefer melee but i am not to picky)

[AnimeTheCat]

i just had my character die and our party needs a dps/tank so what would the best build be. we are an evil party

Just so that others can get a better picture and better assist you I have some questions:

1) What is the general power level and make-up of the group you're playing with? (Be as specific as possible, such as normal damage rolls)
2) What sources are available to you?
3) What sort of houserules are in the game?
4) What do you mean by "Tank"? Someone who has lots of AC/HP or someone who forces the fight on their own terms?

[Darrin]

i just had my character die and our party needs a dps/tank so what would the best build be. we are an evil party

What sourcebooks are available? Are online sources allowed? How about Dragon Magazine? Tome of Battle ok? Is there any particular cheese that is allowed or strictly verboten?

What is your preferred method for dishing out this DPS? Meatbag-style (melee), pew-pew blaster (Mailman), or bear cavalry riding a bear while dual-wielding bear-chuks (Druidzilla)?

What level were you aiming for?

[DeTess]

To add to the questions already listed above: What level do you think your campaign will reach? There are a lot of awesome twenty level builds, but if you never expect to get past level 12 then those are not optimal for you.

[Eldariel]

Hard to go wrong with Cleric or Druid. Evil Clerics in particular rock, while all Druids do. Build for melee, throw in a melee companion, raise some Zombies/Skellies, cast buffs, smite face, profit.

EDIT: You seem to need a skill monkey too. Go Cloistered Cleric, build for melee, prepare few control spells, kick butt.

[Amdy_vill]

Hard to go wrong with Cleric or Druid. Evil Clerics in particular rock, while all Druids do. Build for melee, throw in a melee companion, raise some Zombies/Skellies, cast buffs, smite face, profit. Hard to go wrong.

i don't want to step on the toes of other party members

[DeTess]

i don't want to step on the toes of other party members

Then if you could answer the questions above, we can give suggestions that do not step on the toes of those party-members.

[Eldariel]

i don't want to step on the toes of other party members

Well, you want to play Tank/DPS in a party with a Druid (AC Tank/DPS, Wildshape Tank/DPS), a Barbarian (Tank/DPS) and a Dread Necro (Undead for Tank/DPS soon). Seems like a difficult prospect, but undead play well together (you can coordinate spells buffing them with Dread Necro), and Cleric can melee with the best of them while being so customizable that you can make anything out of it. Cloistered Cleric seems to fit all the slots the party is lacking while also tanking and DPSing.

Though your party seems to be much more lacking in terms of an arcanist, a skill monkey and a party supporter. Have you considered a Wizard Gish (Wizard 3 is quite the good point for that) or something like a Beguiler, a Bard or a Factotum?

Wizard would actually be able to accomplish the DPS/Tank part too and no overlap with the rest of the party if you focus on buffing. With Abrupt Jaunt, Mirror Image, and normal AC buffs a Wizard can be nigh' impossible to hit and with Knowledge Devotion, Wraithstrike, Enlarge Person, Bladeweave and company can output punishment/control with the best of them either with a reach weapon in melee or with a bow at range, or both. And it can be GREAT fun to play, particularly since Abrupt Jaunt allows immediate action teleporting to Attack of Opportunity Trip people or such.

[Amdy_vill]

Well, you want to play Tank/DPS in a party with a Druid (AC Tank/DPS, Wildshape Tank/DPS), a Barbarian (Tank/DPS) and a Dread Necro (Undead for Tank/DPS soon). Seems like a difficult prospect, but undead play well together (you can coordinate spells buffing them with Dread Necro), and Cleric can melee with the best of them while being so customizable that you can make anything out of it. Cloistered Cleric seems to fit all the slots the party is lacking while also tanking and DPSing.

Though your party seems to be much more lacking in terms of an arcanist, a skill monkey and a party supporter. Have you considered a Wizard Gish (Wizard 3 is quite the good point for that) or something like a Beguiler, a Bard or a Factotum?

Wizard would actually be able to accomplish the DPS/Tank part too and no overlap with the rest of the party if you focus on buffing. With Abrupt Jaunt, Mirror Image, and normal AC buffs a Wizard can be nigh' impossible to hit and with Knowledge Devotion, Wraithstrike, Enlarge Person, Bladeweave and company can output punishment/control with the best of them either with a reach weapon in melee or with a bow at range, or both. And it can be GREAT fun to play, particularly since Abrupt Jaunt allows immediate action teleporting to Attack of Opportunity Trip people or such.

i didn't realizes that i would be stepping on other peoples toes as a dps

[Darrin]

First, some groundwork to lay down: "Tanking" in D&D is problematic because there are very few "draw agro" abilities in 3.x. Also, while it's entirely possible to build something with a metric buttload of HPs, high AC, or other defensive abilities like Damage Reduction, this strategy is usually at cross-purposes to "DPS". Combat in D&D is a "race to zero" competition, where a good and fast offense tends to win against a strong defense.

My "Go-To" class for tanking usually starts with Crusader, but some DMs don't allow Tome of Battle. And while the maneuvers can make combat more interesting, the Crusader's repertoire of standard-action strikes doesn't dish out a lot of DPS.

High HP and high damage output is usually pretty well covered by a Pouncebarian (using Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion to get Pounce), but it sounds like you already have a Warforged barbarian covering that turf. If the other player is okay with sharing some of the meatbag duties, then Barbarian 2/Fighter 4 is probably a good start: take Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and then Leap Attack and Shock Trooper at 6th level. Travel Devotion at 1st/3rd is also nice (you can take it twice). Or consider taking Wolf Totem at Barbarian 2 to pick up Improved Trip, and you can add Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) from the SRD at 3rd. If you're looking for high DPS *right now*, then Barb 2/Fighter 1 is probably your best strategy. As far as stepping on toes, it's not necessarily a bad thing to have two meatbags up front soaking up damage and dishing out DPS, but you want to avoid outshining or grabbing the spotlight from the other players.

Most other high-DPS builds are going to take a little longer before they start to pay off. Bardblade starts working around level 6, but DPS doesn't start to get all that obscene until level 9-ish. Swift Hunters, for example, don't really hit their stride until level 9-12ish. For a Mailman Sorcerer, reliable direct-damage takes a little longer for everything to click, probably around level 16. Most of the really jaw-dropping DPS combos take a while to get working, usually in the level 15-18 range.

[AnimeTheCat]

Hmm...

Xeph Rogue 1/Psychic Warrior 2? Covers a hole that you are missing (Skill use) and sets you up to use sneak attack.

Maybe a stat spread like Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 8? Feats 1) Craven, PW1) Shield Specialization (Light), PW2) Focused Shield, 3) Shield Ward. At later levels take two weapon fighting, weapon finesse, Shield Ward, and improved shield bash and make sneak attacks with a light weapon and shield, relying on sneak attack damage while also getting your beefed up shield bonus to many other defenses.

It's not optimal, to be sure, but I did a build similar to this (no rogue, just psychic warrior) and I enjoyed it. When I needed to, I could augment my battle capabilities or social ones with my powers to cover my gaps.

[Eldariel]

i didn't realizes that i would be stepping on other peoples toes as a dps

You aren't in a sense. Generally it's okay for everybody to be doing damage; damage stacks up quite well and the more you have, the easier time you have taking enemies down. Thus every character providing DPS complements the others up to a certain point. Similarly, e.g. minions tend to actually get better in numbers since buffs affecting them affect a larger number of underlings. These are not like the traditional roles though indeed, for most things D&D more tends to be merrier. The key part is not doing someone else's shtick better than they. Two frontline warriors, two backline casters, two skill monkey corpses rogues are fine as long as they complement and don't outshine one another. Hell, four warriors, four casters, four rogues can work just as well. Generally you have enough leeway within a category to provide everything the party needs within 4 characters of the same "class".

In this game none of the caster options necessarily steps on others' toes as long as you just build the character in such a way. More important is what you're interested in. You can make basically anything work. I pointed out arcane and divine casters already and indeed, in a game going up to 15 playing a caster is probably well-advised. However, they have millions of build paths and options and your own preferences would be a necessary guide there. "Evil tank DPS" doesn't really say much yet: everything from summoner to gish to controller to teleporter can work. It's just a matter of building it right. So...what shall it be? Ultimately we can just give you options, it's your call on what you want to run with.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'll second the Cleric. Though a Wizard/Swiftblade might also work, though it'll take a while to come online while a Cleric starts strong and just gets better.

One thing worth consideration though is that with the current party makeup things might get pretty crowded in melee (barbarian, animal companion, undead, maybe the WSed druid, maybe summons...). So another melee character may not be the best idea.

An Unseen Seer build or a Beguiler to fill the skillmonkey and arcanist role may be more useful to the party, if that's something you can see yourself enjoying.
I'd also suggest a War Weaver if you can see yourself enjoying the supporter role.
A Psion could also work - they're easier to handle than wizards and more flexible short-term at the cost of long-term versatility, but they fill pretty much the same role.

If you don't want a caster a Swift Hunter archer/skillmonkey build may also be an option.

You can find builds for any of those with a search of the forum, or i could post one if one of those options is something you'd be interested in.

[Deadline]

Darrin mentioned the Crusader, and if the Tome of Battle is allowed, it's a great tanking choice. I'm going to go ahead and say that I disagree with it not being a damage dealer (especially at the level you are at), but that disagreement is contingent on optimization level for the rest of your party. There are builds that deal considerably more damage at higher optimization levels, but they are also far less tanky.