System modifications for a Demon Souls / Dark Souls setting

[Eradis]

Howdy!

I know it is not the first time it is asked on the wide web that is internet, but after some research I ended up with different questions other than just: "which system is the best for this?". So far, I'm more inclined on changing a few things of the World of Darkness as stated in this (http://www.kingsofrpg.com/from-pixels-to-paper/dark-souls/)particular relevant post. I would probably keep the humanity system as a way to track permanent death, reduced HP in hollow forms and so forth.

My first real question is: What exactly do the Armory books give in term of fighting style? I do not have any of those in my library, and those in the standard World of Darkness are more about giving you more dice to throw rather than changing the mechanic of the weapon used. So before getting my hand on one or both of these, I want to be sure I won't be disappointed in the purchase.

Otherwise, what would you adjust? I'm thinking of multiplying the XP required for the character progression by ten (10) or a hundred. E.i. for each new skill it would be new dot multiplied by 20 or 200 instead of 2. This way it would be easier to give significant amount of "souls"/xp for defeated foes and benefit from item leeching off more souls.

Eventually I might set up a much more personalized system for this kind of game with a more "video game" feeling with cards showing the reach and arc of each weapon on a hex grid, but meanwhile time is lacking for such a project. I still want to keep the RP feeling of a tabletop, but still am unsure about how to pitch boss fight in the mix.

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In recap, what change would you make to the setting of World of Darkness to make it work? and mostly, how would you handle boss fight to make it fun and doable to overcome an almighty foe?

[tensai_oni]

I don't think this is a good idea and I find the article you linked to be highly faulty. Whatever Souls are heavily combat centric games so you'd want a good combat system - something nWoD explicitly does not have. Its combat system is servicable for the type of games you want to run with World of Darkness, but if you expect to be able to dodge, parry and act tactically instead of just dying to an unlucky roll in a highly lethal system designed with assumption that combat is the last resort for everyone involved, you're in for a surprise.

I'm also highly sceptical of the article's claim that you can just copy spells you want from Mage. Does the author even know anything about Mage, or did they just hear it exists? There's also that part where Dark Souls are stated to be the hardest game ever for the ultimate badass. Ha! Toxic meme bullcrap.

In short, sorry for sounding so negative but I suggest you reconsider and go back to wandering what system would work best for Dark/Demon/Blood Soulsborne. Humanity is a decent fit for Hollowness, but other than that, WoD isn't it.

[Eradis]

Well, I actually disagree about this system being so far off. The fact that you can easily die or get badly injured by one hit makes perfect sense to me. I did ignore the mage part as I would've just set my own if any spell in my game. From what I understand, you might know about those merits that figure as fighting style in the armory books? Do they not add value at all or some play style? I honestly don't know them.

I admit that the combat system of WoD isn't the most captivating and it's mainly why I rarely do two campaign in a row with WoD. A little tweaking might make it viable though. I am thinking of re-reading the Scion tick rules for combat. This way it would be much more engaging and each action could have dire consequences and represent well the speed of each weapon, dodge, movement, etc.

P.S.: I am still open to any suggestion for a system closer to the game's feeling.

[JellyPooga]

While I'm not intimately familiar with the WoD combat system, I have to agree with the notion that it doesn't really fit the ascetic of the Souls series.

You need a system that encourages, even necessitates, tactical play, including high lethality, fatigue and a varied weapon and style list. WoD is too...basic in all these regards.

- GURPS could be a good fit, if you're willing to do the leg-work involved in tailoring the game to a Souls style, but I don't think it's the best fit. There's really too many sub-systems that don't gel well with the Souls idiom (like the FP/HP death spiral).

- The One Ring has most of the elements involved, if you're willing to relegate combat to something more abstract, but like WoD, the focus is too heavy on non-combat aspects to really be a great fit. That said, TORs Shadow system of corruption could be a nice facsimile of going Hollow. Most rules-light games, such as FATE, can also fit this category.

- D&D? Just no.

- I find myself strangely drawn to the notion of adapting Earthdawn. For one, the truly arcane nature of the rules and its various magic sub-systems might make for something akin to the wonder of discovering new things, as well as adequately representing the three different styles of magic in Souls (come to think of it, Earthdawns magic systems bear a remarkably accurate similarity to Souls). The whole conceit of "naming" seems like an appropriate add to the Souls universe too; I have a notion that it's sort of already there, but it isn't called out as such. I'll have to read up on Earthdawn again, but I definitely think this might have potential.

- Dark Heresy definitely has a look in too; an in-built corruption system that can easily be adapted to going Hollow. High lethality. Tactical combat. No fatigue system that fits the Souls style, nor a magic system that fits either. Possibly one to poach certain things from rather than use wholesale.

[Eradis]

What appealed to me in WoD first is how easily the rules and system can be adapted to one's need. I've done some house-rework on this system in the past, although the combat system is indeed too simpleton, therefore the reason I mentioned the Scion's round system on which I would add the leg-work by adding a stamina feature in the like of the Souls series. Still, the different fighting style would be greatly lacking, thus the continued search.

Regarding GURPS, I heard a great deal about this system, but never used it. Every time I tried to look into it just seemed too much off track for all the project I've been on. And for The One Ring and Earthdawn, both are unknown to me.

Although I thought about the Warhammer systems, e.i. Dark Heresy and Fantasy, but I remember feeling too much like a child fighting with stick when I played these as a player. Even with a 40% chance to-hit (which was about the highest score that any of us had at the beginning), we were missing almost constantly, rendering the fights longer as our lost of interest grew as well.

Since I still intend to run a game with the Souls ideology around, I am going to keep the RP elements of the tabletop genre. Regardless of the system that I will use, the setting itself and ambiance will be of my own doing and that of my group of players. Especially things like going hollow, the humanity, estus flask and so on, are insanely easy to implement in any system. Sanity-wise I might go for a small reworked of the Warhammer Fantasy (it was the best part of the system in my opinion).

Nota: The more time goes, the more ideas I have for a system suited exactly for this kind of game, but time is lacking right now for it. I will probably do it down the road, but my biggest decision will be regarding dice. Which one should I use? d4-d20 to hit with static damage according to the player's stats and weapon maybe.

[Pilo]

Are you aware of the game Anima Beyond Fantasy, Core Exxet Edition?

It is a game which might get what you want (many rules for dodging, position of the fighters regarding one an other have influence, many way of fighting...).
However I think you might have to work on a wound system, even if hp loss inflict durable penalty.

[Eradis]

Are you aware of the game Anima Beyond Fantasy, Core Exxet Edition?

It is a game which might get what you want (many rules for dodging, position of the fighters regarding one an other have influence, many way of fighting...).
However I think you might have to work on a wound system, even if hp loss inflict durable penalty.

I am not aware of this game. I will look into it in the next few days.

[Knaight]

An ORE system game would work for this too (REIGN is closest, but Nemesis is free and enough to introduce the system to you). WoD just isn't there.

With that said, my first instinct here is actually to use Burning Wheel. The combat system there is nicely detailed, it's deeply tactical, and getting hit is brutal. Normally I'd avoid it for being slow, but for a Souls game in particular it really works. Riddle of Steel is probably better, but it's also out of print and something like $250 for a used copy.

If you want to go further afield and do more work, Mythender is free and looks surprisingly hackable for Souls.

[houlio]

With that said, my first instinct here is actually to use Burning Wheel. The combat system there is nicely detailed, it's deeply tactical, and getting hit is brutal. Normally I'd avoid it for being slow, but for a Souls game in particular it really works.

I second Burning Wheel. It has the tactical depth to fit the combat but without needing to resort to the minutia of a minis game. It might not fit perfectly, but it might also help to look into Torchbearer.