Filling A Balloon

[GreatWyrmGold]

This is kind of an odd question, I realize.

My group is playing Storm King's Thunder. Most of the way through the adventure, a dragon cult lends the party an airship—a ship with runners on the bottom and a big balloon on the top, as well as a furnace in the middle (to keep the balloon's air hot) and a propeller in the back. Very cool. Unfortunately, we encountered a green dragon who decided he didn't like our balloon. We crashed; quick action on the part of the players and a pair of immovable rods kept the PCs who couldn't fly safe, and a quick revivify saved one NPC (though not a member of the crew—they all died before the ship crashed, thanks to the dragon).
We got the ship repaired at the cost of almost 80% of the party funds, but now need to inflate the balloon without setting it on fire. Real-world hot air balloons are laid on their side and have hot air directed directly into the balloon; neither is exactly an option for this airship at this tech level. According to out speak with dead and a little DM-provided intuition, the balloon is normally inflated via dragon, but mages can do it, presumably with a combination of Bigby's Hand and fire spells.

Our party includes a cleric of light, so we have some fire spells. We also have an ettin warlock/barbarian (two characters), a monk, and a fighter, as well as a low-level support-NPC wizard who we just brought back from the dead. Notable magic items include a decanter of endless water, boots of flying, two immovable rods, and a rod of wonder. We've considered things like having the ettin don the boots and hold the balloon up, but it's big and heavy, so that doesn't seem plausible.
Does anyone have suggestions?

[Aett_Thorn]

Does anyone in your party have access to the Gust of Wind spell? I would think that that, combined with some fire spells to create the heat, could work to fill the balloon.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'm not sure fire spells are the way to go, or rather I don't know if what you can cast in a day is enough. If you can do it using a mundane fire you pretty much have a limitless supply of that. You need to have the balloon suspended over the fire though. Maybe build some sort of framework (from wood which close to the fire is covered in wet hides or mud or seaweed or something)) to support the opening and try to use all the magic you have to keep the top of the balloon raised until there's enough hot air in it.

Maybe even start with the fire spells, and when that doesn't give you enough lift for takeoff it will at least get the balloon in shape, making it easier to use mundane fire. That seems like an easier option than what I described above.

[tieren]

Use boots of flying to place immovable rods in space above balloon.

Affix block and pulleys to immovable rods.

Use pulley systems for characters on ground to raise top of balloon away from ships furnace so it doesn't catch on fire.

Light ships furnace to fill balloon with hot air.

Fly up and remove pulleys and immovable rods.

Profit.

[Unoriginal]

but now need to inflate the balloon without setting it on fire. Real-world hot air balloons are laid on their side and have hot air directed directly into the balloon; neither is exactly an option for this airship at this tech level.

Why not?

All you need is a fire, and a way to hold the balloon's hole above it without it being close enough to burn. Nothing complicated or tech-advanced needed.

Heck, the balloon already has a furnace, so you just need something to hold the balloon's hole above it and start the fire.




According to out speak with dead and a little DM-provided intuition, the balloon is normally inflated via dragon, but mages can do it, presumably with a combination of Bigby's Hand and fire spells.

I think your DM is either severely mistaken, or trying to bs your group.

There is no way a dragon would agree to use its breath for that kind of menial task, unless it was compelled. And if you can compel a dragon, you don't need a hot air balloon.



Does anyone have suggestions?

Tie a rope to the top of the balloon, use a crane or just a tall-enough-pole with a pulley on top of it to hold the balloon above the fire by pulling the rope (putting a net around the balloon and fixing it to the ground so it won't escape), and use the immovable rode to make the rope/ crane stay in place. Should be filled in a few hours at most.


Also, I haven't played SKT, but isn't that ship magic and working thanks to elementals in the furnace or something like that?

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Do you guys happen to have some giant cans of helium? If not then if you get the furnace working and get the opening of the balloon over it for a while you could get it to work with out spells.

[the_brazenburn]

I think your DM is either severely mistaken, or trying to bs your group.

There is no way a dragon would agree to use its breath for that kind of menial task, unless it was compelled. And if you can compel a dragon, you don't need a hot air balloon.

The airship belongs to the Cult of the Dragon, who have the resources and allies to get an airship filled by dragon-power. I can't say for sure if the DM is ad-libbing or if this is actually in the book, but it's a legitimate procedure either way.

[N810]

Suspend the immoveable rod in the opening and cast heat metal on it.

[Xetheral]

Inflating the balloon to keep its shape requires much less heat than inflating it enough to lift the airship. There should be a range of temperatures above room temperature but below the ignition temperature of the balloon fabric that should work. I suggest taking a large rock, heating it slowly to the high-end of the desired temperature range, and then wrapping the opening of the balloon around it. The dissipating heat from the rock should inflate the bag enough to get it to hold its shape long enough to start the furnace.

If the DM gives you problems with relative heat dissipation rates and/or heat capacity of the rock, you can instead physically mount your rock between the furnace and the opening of the balloon, allowing you to keep the rock at the correct temperature while the bag inflates, but protecting the material of the balloon from the flame of the furnace.

[SirGraystone]

It's been sometime since I have read SKT but doesn't that ship have an air elemental trap below deck to push it forward, and a fire elemental in the forge on the main deck to inflate the balloon?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Does anyone in your party have access to the Gust of Wind spell? I would think that that, combined with some fire spells to create the heat, could work to fill the balloon.
We were discussing that, and nobody has it.



Use boots of flying to place immovable rods in space above balloon.
Affix block and pulleys to immovable rods.
Use pulley systems for characters on ground to raise top of balloon away from ships furnace so it doesn't catch on fire.
Light ships furnace to fill balloon with hot air.
Fly up and remove pulleys and immovable rods.
Profit.
That could work. We just need to get pulleys.



Why not?
All you need is a fire, and a way to hold the balloon's hole above it without it being close enough to burn. Nothing complicated or tech-advanced needed.
Yes, but the way to hold the balloon's hole (and, you know, the rest of the balloon) away from the hole is the problem. In other words, you said "You just need fire and a solution to your problem, and you'll be able to do it."


I think your DM is either severely mistaken, or trying to bs your group.
There is no way a dragon would agree to use its breath for that kind of menial task, unless it was compelled. And if you can compel a dragon, you don't need a hot air balloon.
It's a balloon for the dragon's own cultists. Besides, it's the DM's campaign, he could have dragons as beasts of burden if he really wanted and I wouldn't argue. (Though I would look into buying a packdragon.)


Tie a rope to the top of the balloon, use a crane or just a tall-enough-pole with a pulley on top of it to hold the balloon above the fire by pulling the rope (putting a net around the balloon and fixing it to the ground so it won't escape), and use the immovable rode to make the rope/ crane stay in place.
We don't have a crane. Also, the balloon is a 50-foot sphere when inflated and held a good bit above the ~2-story-high ship, so the crane would need to be close to 100 feet tall.
Did I mention we're in the middle of the wilderness, two or three days from town? (That's part of why we had to pay so much to get the ship repaired.)


Also, I haven't played SKT, but isn't that ship magic and working thanks to elementals in the furnace or something like that?

It's been sometime since I have read SKT but doesn't that ship have an air elemental trap below deck to push it forward, and a fire elemental in the forge on the main deck to inflate the balloon?
I dunno. The DM didn't mention anything like that, and we haven't gone looking for elementals.



Do you guys happen to have some giant cans of helium? If not then if you get the furnace working and get the opening of the balloon over it for a while you could get it to work with out spells.
The party was going to do something like that (not the helium thing), but the DM and I pointed out that the flammable parts of the balloon would be awfully close to the flame, which would be bad.



Suspend the immoveable rod in the opening and cast heat metal on it.
I'm not sure that would produce enough heat. Or that we could suspend the balloon right without alternatively being able to use a more mundane method of heating air.



Inflating the balloon to keep its shape requires much less heat than inflating it enough to lift the airship. There should be a range of temperatures above room temperature but below the ignition temperature of the balloon fabric that should work. I suggest taking a large rock, heating it slowly to the high-end of the desired temperature range, and then wrapping the opening of the balloon around it. The dissipating heat from the rock should inflate the bag enough to get it to hold its shape long enough to start the furnace.
If the DM gives you problems with relative heat dissipation rates and/or heat capacity of the rock, you can instead physically mount your rock between the furnace and the opening of the balloon, allowing you to keep the rock at the correct temperature while the bag inflates, but protecting the material of the balloon from the flame of the furnace.
If the DM agrees with this and we have precise enough control over the furnace's temperature, it would work.

[Unoriginal]

If you need a pulley but don't have one you can just use the Immovable Rod. Just solidly fix/tie things at both ends to get a []===[] shape, if you get what I mean. Put the rope in-between and you should be golden.

Also, no, I didn't say the equivalent of "you just need a fire and a solution". You could literally just make a fire and hold the hole of the balloon above it with your hands (while the rest of the ballon stays on the ground), if you're enough people.


Otherwise, I have another solution: dig a 10ft (or more) deep pit, a little less large than the balloon's hole, then start a fire at the bottom and hold the hole above it, leaving a space between the two. It'll work like a makeshift chimney conduit to fill the balloon without risk of it burning, provided you're careful no burning ash flies up.

Then use Predistigitation to clean the smoke and shooth.

[N810]

http://myvalleynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/10-16-15-LOCAL-Upside-down-hot-air-balloon-photo-4-1024x683.jpg

[GreatWyrmGold]

-image snipped-
We don't have a device designed to spray heated air in one direction. And we can't lay the balloon on its side, because the ship is a bit larger than a hot air balloon basket.

[N810]

... What do you have ???

As far as other resources and spells available.
Also what are your surrounding and local resources ?
(do none of your caster have a fire cantrip spell ?)

Could you use the ships furnace and the decanter of endless water to create steam it full the balloon with ?
also what is the orientation of your deflated balloon, I assumed it was deflated and horizontal... ?

[Unoriginal]

We don't have a device designed to spray heated air in one direction. And we can't lay the balloon on its side, because the ship is a bit larger than a hot air balloon basket.

It's not spraying heated air in one direction, it's literally just a fire source held under the balloon's hole.

Don't need to lay the balloon, either, just make sure it doesn't touch the flame