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View Full Version : A question about how spells/ a feat, and a class ability interact.



ngilop
2018-01-29, 10:59 AM
Hey guys, I am currently in a Rise of The Runelords campaign, and I was looking at what feat to grab next, when I happened upon Spell Perfection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-perfection/) and I was like: "Saaweeet!" that gives me a +8 to STR and CON to my summons. Then looking at some old conversations between the DM and I I noticed he suggested Superior Summoning (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/superior-summoning/)

Then I thought to myself hmm...

The game is mostly PF with approved 3.5 thing allowed, one of said allowed 3.5 things is my Prestige Class, the Malconvoker.

My questions then becomes if I got Spell Perfection Summon Monster IX, I know I will get +8 STR and COn to whatever I summon (cuz I can just use SMIX to summon lower rank things as well) my question becomes, since I have Fiendish Legion, does that mean that I will be summoning 4 creatures at a time?
1 for the base Summon Monster IX, +1 to Fiendish Summoning, +1 for Superior Summoning, and +1 for the double bonus from feats that give a set numerical bonus from Spell Perfection.

or only 3, as I am summoning 1 via Summon Monster IX, + 1 to fiendish Summoning, and +1 from Superior Summoning, but the Spell Perfect double the feat bonus does not work with the +1 from Superior Summoning?

I am inclined for the former as I think Spell Perfection doubles the bonus from Superior Summons, but I could nto find any such on ruling on the Paizo Forums, but I am willing to admit that I could have overlooked it.

tedcahill2
2018-01-29, 11:18 AM
I would argue it wouldn't add an additional summon. Spell perfection doubles any set numerical bonus you apply to a spell. The examples they give, spell focus, spell penetration, weapon focus (ray), all give a numeric bonus to the spell as a whole, but it doesn't give a bonus to the spells effect. Since superior summon adds a number to the effect of the spell +1 summoned monster, I would say it doesn't apply.

A good point of comparison is the way a weapon deals, let's say, 1d8+X. Any bonuses you can stack into the X will all be multiplied on a critical hit, but a flaming weapon that add +1d6 damage doesn't get multiplied by a critical hit.

Disclaimer, I tend to lean toward the 'rules as intended', and not the 'rules as written', camp. So that would be my interpretation based off my perceived intention.

ExLibrisMortis
2018-01-29, 04:07 PM
Superior Summoning says "add one to", but whether that one is a bonus, I'm not sure. Typically, bonuses apply to game statistics (for example, anything on your character sheet), and "number of summons" isn't one (nor is it called out as "one bonus creature" or similar).

On the other hand, "add 1" is pretty much exactly the same as "add +1 bonus", and splitting hairs isn't worth it for its own sake. I'd let this combo work, simply because a specialist should be awesome within their (increasinly narrow) field of specialization.

ngilop
2018-02-04, 06:16 PM
So, found an official ruling.

Since the fiendish legion class ability is identical to the sorcerer Abyssal bloodline ability Added Summonings (except fiendish legion is ex and not su) that means the class ability interacts with the two feats as I surmised it would.

I summon the one from the spell, 1 from my class ability, 1 from superior summoning and lastly 1 from spell perfection.