Simulacrum houserule nerf

[Rickety Stick]

Hello! Ive been dm'ing a campaign where my players started at level 10 and are currently at level 14(they're fairly close to reaching 15). It's been a pretty decent campaign overall, however since they reached level 13 where the party's wizard picked up simulacrum he has constantly been outshining the rest of the party, and been stomping through the encounters that doesn't start with an enemy managing to dispel the simulacrum. The rest of the table still seems to be having fun, though there has been occasional complaints from them. Even the wizard has showed some concerns about it. I usually run 3-5 encounters between long rests with a few outliers here and there. I've been thinking of nerfing the spell, which the table seems supportive of. The nerfs i've come up with is:

The simulacrum requires its creator to expend a spell slot of 7th level or higher after every long rest the creator takes in order to maintain it. The simulacrum can't take short and long rests and is incapable of expending spell slots of any kind.


The intention is so that the spell can't be cast freely on days where they aren't adventuring, and that it doesn't double the wizards spell slots or give him a complete copy of a non spellcaster partymember. From my eyes it still seems useful for making a good beatstick or protection based ally. But i'd like some perspective.

EDIT: Thanks for the feedback :smallsmile:. Im going to let him use the spell as is for the rest of the campaign. For my next campaign im probably going to make the spell be level 9 (no other changes to it), but if so im definitely telling my players about it before they make their characters.

[BobZan]

It costs 1500gp per use and doesn't regain expended slots. Are you using these already?

Simulacrum is very OP.

[Rickety Stick]

It costs 1500gp per use and doesn't regain expended slots. Are you using these already?

Simulacrum is very OP.
Yes the players have plenty of gold at this point however.

Yeah it seems so...

[strangebloke]

Well, the cat's out of the bag. A retroactive nerf won't be taken well.

That said, create a recurring abjuration wizard villain who opens each combat by dispelling the simulacrum with a dispel magic or an antimagic field.

Also, are you running 6-8 encounters a day? If not then there's nothing to be done for it. The casters will reign supreme.

[Vogie]

You could change how it's controlled- Changing the action or the target of the simulacrum requires Concentration from the wizard for that turn.
On creation the wizard has to roll a d20, and the result is a flaw in the simulacrum. If the Simulacrum takes precisely that amount of damage, it shatters and breaks.
Add enemies who will silence the battlefield, disallowing you (or any of the party) to give it commands
Give the simulacrum other downsides, such as taking additional damage from fire or heat auras (as it's made of ice), or have them only able to clone martial classes, or cannot use spells above a certain level.
Give psychic enemies the ability to gain control of the Simulacrum and use it against you
Give it a rule like the first law of robotics, "A robot may not injure a party member or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm" - that second part will make the simulacrum more likely to take damage while trying to jump in the way and actively attempt to take damage for the PCs. Pushing them out of the way, trying to body-block, et cetera
Start a Dollhouse-style side quest where the simulacrums start remembering what happened to the older simulacrums that came before it, and slowly becoming awakened, to the point where it will betray the party to save itself and escape.

[Asmotherion]

Just let it be used as it is. It can't be abused in any way before level 17 through Game Mechanics, and a DM can take control of Abused Game Mechanics as he sees fit (Such as Simulacrum Chains being uncontroled by the original caster being a great example).

The Time and Cost of casting a Simulacrum alone are limiting enough to make it a non-reliable source of everyday adventuring; You basically need at least 12 hours of downtime (+8 hours for a long rest) to even cast the spell, provided you have the necessary super-expenssive materials avalable to you during that downtime, costing 1500gp, which are also consumed by the spell.

You basically can't cast the spell just about anywere, it needs to be done in your lab, or at least during your visit in a town/citty were you'll know you won't be disturbed wile casting, and will have everything at hand. The DM controls When and Where he wants to allow you to be able to cast this spell by controlling the variables of A) your avalable time, B) your avalable resources and C) being disturbed or not wile casting, effectivelly wasting your spell slot, and possibly components as well.

The reward of actually accomplishing the casting of this spell is amazing, if you manage to do so. There is no reason to limit it, just keep track of how often you allow your caster the time/resources to actually cast it.

[Caelic]

The fundamental problem with the "...can't use spell slots" part of the rule is that it simply makes it even more appealing to make copies of characters with non-spell-slot abilities (like, say, Wild Shape or warlock invocations/arcana) or with abilities that don't require any sort of rest.

[willdaBEAST]

This is part of the problem of running tier 3 or tier 4 campaigns, you have to deal with crazy high powered abilities.

How are you handling the component requirements of: "Snow or ice in quantities sufficient to made a life-size copy of the duplicated creature"? Personally, I wouldn't allow ray of frost to generate anywhere near the amount of ice needed for simulacrum. You'd have to use something like ice storm or sleet storm as a wizard to get enough. You could make some kind of "the simulacrum is slowly melting" rider, but if you do that, I'd allow your player the option of changing their class. As the PCs go up in levels you're going to come across overpowered abilities or combos, you should decide how you're going to address those now and not on a case by case basis.

As other posters are mentioning, if the wizard is making a simulacrum of himself, have a lot of encounters or encounters with a lot of targets so he burns through the non-regenerating spell slots.

How are the enemies targeting the simulacrum with dispel? Are they using meta knowledge because you know it's a simulacrum? Randomly targeting one of the duplicates if the simulacrum looks exactly like a party member? Short of a high DC arcana check or noticing that the simulacrum cannot be healed by conventional means, enemies shouldn't be able to detect which one is the simulacrum.

You're the DM, you can design whatever kind of encounter you want. I'd think of encounters where the simulacrum isn't so effective. Turn the tables on your wizard, have an encounter where 2 (or more) other wizard duplicates show up claiming to be him (maybe he was kidnapped and one actually is your PC). Throw your party into doubt about who is who, creating a sense of paranoia. I don't think you should go out of your way to counter one player, try to find a fun scenario that illustrates the limitations or dangers of the spell.

[LeonBH]

The most appropriate nerf of Simulacrum is making it a 9th level spell, I think. It must contend with Wish, not co-exist with it.

But as your Wizard is already using it, there's nothing you can do to nerf it and make it fair. You must choose between bringing its power level down to other 7th level spells - which is a major nerf - or only somewhat debuffing it, which is not enough.

The truth is, any spell which gives you double the spell slots, double the actions, double the reactions, and double the bonus actions is going to be OP.

[Rickety Stick]

The most appropriate nerf of Simulacrum is making it a 9th level spell, I think. It must contend with Wish, not co-exist with it.

But as your Wizard is already using it, there's nothing you can do to nerf it and make it fair. You must choose between bringing its power level down to other 7th level spells - which is a major nerf - or only somewhat debuffing it, which is not enough.

The truth is, any spell which gives you double the spell slots, double the actions, double the reactions, and double the bonus actions is going to be OP.

Thanks for the suggestion! that seems like it would be a better nerf to put on the spell.
I think im going to let him use the spell as is for the rest of the campaign. Might nerf it for my next campaign though, but if so im going to be telling my players about it before they make their characters.

[Malifice]

Hello! Ive been dm'ing a campaign where my players started at level 10 and are currently at level 14(they're fairly close to reaching 15). It's been a pretty decent campaign overall, however since they reached level 13 where the party's wizard picked up simulacrum he has constantly been outshining the rest of the party, and been stomping through the encounters that doesn't start with an enemy managing to dispel the simulacrum. The rest of the table still seems to be having fun, though there has been occasional complaints from them. Even the wizard has showed some concerns about it. I usually run 3-5 encounters between long rests with a few outliers here and there. I've been thinking of nerfing the spell, which the table seems supportive of. The nerfs i've come up with is:

The simulacrum requires its creator to expend a spell slot of 7th level or higher after every long rest the creator takes in order to maintain it. The simulacrum can't take short and long rests and is incapable of expending spell slots of any kind.


The intention is so that the spell can't be cast freely on days where they aren't adventuring, and that it doesn't double the wizards spell slots or give him a complete copy of a non spellcaster partymember. From my eyes it still seems useful for making a good beatstick or protection based ally. But i'd like some perspective.

EDIT: Thanks for the feedback :smallsmile:. Im going to let him use the spell as is for the rest of the campaign. For my next campaign im probably going to make the spell be level 9 (no other changes to it), but if so im definitely telling my players about it before they make their characters.

Dude, the Simulacrum is an NPC. Why are you letting the player run it? You should be running it. Just like you should be running summoned creatures, or conjured or gated Demons and so forth.

It rolls its own initiative, and on the players turn, he tells you what its orders are. Have him actually deliverable the orders. As in 'I order my Simulacrum to do X'. He could also give general orders [Follow me and my companions around and use your spells to the best of your ability to assist the party].

Then you (the DM) interpret those orders (pro tip: be creative) and it carries them out however it decides is best subject to its (your) interpretation of those orders.

It is loyal to the PC and obeys his orders (subject to its interpretation of those orders). Remember on his turn, he gets what... 2-3 seconds to issue an order?

Put him on the clock (all the PCs should be on the clock). Give them 3 seconds to declare actions, then if they havent their turn ends and they Dodge.

DM (You): Right Wizard - its your turn what do you do?
Wizard: (thinks) I'll yell out to my Simulacrum to 'Fireball the Orcs' then I'll cast Hold Monster on the Giant leading them.
DM: As Simulacrum ''Yes master'' - then proceeds to (as the Simulacrum) place a Fireball in a pattern that covers the most possible Orcs, including the Half Orc Barbarian PC, expending its highest level spell slot possible (follows orders to the best of its ability).

You can have a lot of fun with Simulacrums as a DM.

Particularly ones with wish (Imagine an AI with reality altering magic which capable of freeing them from their status as a Simulacrum/ AI? Also known as the 'Pinocchio effect'.)

[LeonBH]

Dude, the Simulacrum is an NPC. Why are you letting the player run it? You should be running it. Just like you should be running summoned creatures, or conjured or gated Demons and so forth.

It rolls its own initiative, and on the players turn, he tells you what its orders are. Have him actually deliverable the orders. As in 'I order my Simulacrum to do X'. He could also give general orders [Follow me and my companions around and use your spells to the best of your ability to assist the party].

Then you (the DM) interpret those orders (pro tip: be creative) and it carries them out however it decides is best subject to its (your) interpretation of those orders.

It is loyal to the PC and obeys his orders (subject to its interpretation of those orders). Remember on his turn, he gets what... 2-3 seconds to issue an order?

Put him on the clock (all the PCs should be on the clock). Give them 3 seconds to declare actions, then if they havent their turn ends and they Dodge.

DM (You): Right Wizard - its your turn what do you do?
Wizard: (thinks) I'll yell out to my Simulacrum to 'Fireball the Orcs' then I'll cast Hold Monster on the Giant leading them.
DM: As Simulacrum ''Yes master'' - then proceeds to (as the Simulacrum) place a Fireball in a pattern that covers the most possible Orcs, including the Half Orc Barbarian PC, expending its highest level spell slot possible (follows orders to the best of its ability).

You can have a lot of fun with Simulacrums as a DM.

Particularly ones with wish (Imagine an AI with reality altering magic which capable of freeing them from their status as a Simulacrum/ AI? Also known as the 'Pinocchio effect'.)

That only encourages the players to laboriously plan out their orders in advance. That just means, for a player willing to put up with it, they would have created a shorthand for giving orders which would otherwise be too long to say.

One haphazard example could be saying "Use F-L3 in 4,5. Move -1,-1. No FF." to denote "Use Fireball at level 3 centered 20 feet North of me, and 25 feet East of me. Then move 5 feet South of your current location, and 5 feet West of your current location. Avoid friendly fire." And you would have to process this as a DM every time they order their Simulacrum, since you've taken control over it.

Also, not everyone likes being put on the clock if that's how the table has operated before. Changing the entire table's way of playing just for 1 spell seems like too much work.

[Malifice]

That only encourages the players to laboriously plan out their orders in advance.

Go nuts. The more convoluted the order, the more chance for DM creativeness in interpretation.

Think of highly convoluted wishes. You're begging for monkey paw.


One haphazard example could be saying "Use F-L3 in 4,5. Move -1,-1. No FF." to denote "Use Fireball at level 3 centered 20 feet North of me, and 25 feet East of me. Then move 5 feet South of your current location, and 5 feet West of your current location. Avoid friendly fire." And you would have to process this as a DM every time they order their Simulacrum.

If you can do that inside of the 3 seconds you have to declare you actions on your turn, then good for you. Unsure how on earth a player could come up with such a precise order on the go, in the middle of combat, in the 2-3 seconds they have to declare their action to me.

Problems with order as stated include:

How does the Simulacrum know East from West? Does it have a compass? Presuming it is unable to determine which was is North on its turn; what does it do?

Nothing at all (unable to complete orders; does not compute, error message)?


Also, not everyone likes being put on the clock if that's how the table has operated before. Changing the entire table's way of playing just for 1 spell seems like too much work.

Its better than changing the rules mid game on account of one spell.

Players play their characters. Not NPCs, not other creatures (unless the DM permits them to). They get one mind (their own). The DM controls the rest of the world.

When I DM, the simulacrum is a loyal and obedient AI, that follows your orders to the best of its ability. Nothing in the spell gives you absolute telepathic control over the simulacrum, with your orders unerringly carried out exactly as you desire, no matter how complex the orders or the situation the Simulacrum is responding to.

The simulacrum doesn't know the casters mind. Other than being a Simulacrum of the caster himself of course, and this is debatable (and creates its own problems if true).

Often the outcome could be very different to what you (the caster) desired. Plus the spell doesnt give you the ability to issue orders when its not your turn (for example if you haven't previously ordered the Simulactum to counter an incoming spell, it wont do it unless you can somehow blurt out a verbal order for it to counter an incoming spell, in time for it to cast counterspell to that incoming spell).

Imagine if you created a Clone or an AI in real life (an obedient clone/ AI that is compelled to follow your orders). You wouldnt have perfect and absolute control over it all the time. You could give it orders, but the results might not always be what you wanted, and it might decide to carry those orders out in ways you hadnt exactly foreseen.

Occasionally the results might even be contrary to what it was you actually wanted due to sloppy wording of the order, or forgetting to cancel an existing order or what have you.

[Dyndrilliac]

I think Malifice and Asmotherion are both right: There needs to be some time/resource limitations for PCs using summon spells (regardless of whether it's Conjure X, Simulacrum, or whatever), and if the player wants to be able to give his minions more complicated orders, he needs to work with them in-game outside-of-combat to train them in the tactics he would like them to use. I see this not as a nerf, but as an excellent role-playing opportunity for a classic 80's movie training montage. You don't have to take a ton of in-game time doing this (it is a montage after all). You can role-play the training of one or two specialized commands, and then just have everything written down and hand it to the DM. Maybe the left column is the command, and the right column is the desired effect. Give the Simulacrum a d20 roll every time it receives a command, and on a natural 1 it misremembers the intended effect slightly.

[LeonBH]

Go nuts. The more convoluted the order, the more chance for DM creativeness in interpretation.

Think of highly convoluted wishes. You're begging for monkey paw.

I foresee a lot of drama in this table. I heartily advise against it.


If you can do that inside of the 3 seconds you have to declare you actions on your turn, then good for you. Unsure how on earth a player could come up with such a precise order on the go, in the middle of combat, in the 2-3 seconds they have to declare their action to me.

Problems with order as stated include:

How does the Simulacrum know East from West? Does it have a compass? Presuming it is unable to determine which was is North on its turn; what does it do?

Nothing at all (unable to complete orders; does not compute, error message)?

You would come up with the abbreviations ahead of time, then cast a Simulacrum of yourself so that your Simulacrum also has all of your knowledge. Thus he instantly knows your shorthand.

If you know where East and West are (for example, by Keen Mind as the Wizard; or by simply making a habit of knowing where it is by asking the DM), then your Simulacrum knows it as well, because you would share the same mental faculties. That is, if you can figure out where East and West are, your Simulacrum will also be able to figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially if you've established it before casting your next Simulacrum.


Its better than changing the rules mid game on account of one spell.

Players play their characters. Not NPCs, not other creatures (unless the DM permits them to). They get one mind (their own). The DM controls the rest of the world.

When I DM, the simulacrum is a loyal and obedient AI, that follows your orders to the best of its ability. Nothing in the spell gives you absolute telepathic control over the simulacrum, with your orders unerringly carried out exactly as you desire, no matter how complex the orders or the situation the Simulacrum is responding to.

The simulacrum doesn't know the casters mind. Other than being a Simulacrum of the caster himself of course, and this is debatable (and creates its own problems if true).

Often the outcome could be very different to what you (the caster) desired. Plus the spell doesnt give you the ability to issue orders when its not your turn (for example if you haven't previously ordered the Simulactum to counter an incoming spell, it wont do it unless you can somehow blurt out a verbal order for it to counter an incoming spell, in time for it to cast counterspell to that incoming spell).

Imagine if you created a Clone or an AI in real life (an obedient clone/ AI that is compelled to follow your orders). You wouldnt have perfect and absolute control over it all the time. You could give it orders, but the results might not always be what you wanted, and it might decide to carry those orders out in ways you hadnt exactly foreseen.

Occasionally the results might even be contrary to what it was you actually wanted due to sloppy wording of the order, or forgetting to cancel an existing order or what have you.

No, it's worse, because it disrupts the entire table of people playing the game. Changing the rules so as to minimize those kinds of large shifts in the table's culture is arguably better than changing the table's culture. House rules are useful tools, after all.

[Malifice]

I foresee a lot of drama in this table. I heartily advise against it.

There is no drama at my table.

Sooky players get spoken to as peers and friends. If the continue, they get booted.


You would come up with the abbreviations ahead of time, then cast a Simulacrum of yourself so that your Simulacrum also has all of your knowledge. Thus he instantly knows your shorthand.

If you know where East and West are (for example, by Keen Mind as the Wizard; or by simply making a habit of knowing where it is by asking the DM), then your Simulacrum knows it as well, because you would share the same mental faculties. That is, if you can figure out where East and West are, your Simulacrum will also be able to figure it out. It's not rocket science, especially if you've established it before casting your next Simulacrum.

You arguably share the same mental facilties at creation, but your knowledge of something isnt the same as your simulacrums.

Presume for a second you're right and you and the Sim do share the same mental facilities and memories as your creator. If I were to ask your Character (not the Simulacrum) the following question:

"If you woke up one day with knowledge that you were in fact a Simulacrum, that once you expend a spell slot, it is gone forever, and that you were under the mental control of another being, what would you do about it in the absence of any orders to the contrary? Try to escape that control and become an independent person (and able to recover spell slots), or accept your fate as a temporary batter of HP and spell slots and move on with your master draining you to win encounters till you die?'

The answer is always ''Escape that control.''

I ask that question to players who already have a simulacrum and are abusing it. It allows me (the DM) free reign to say to myselg 'Well cool; thank you for confirming that your Simulacrum knows what it is, what its restrictions are, how to circumvent those restrictions (being itself capable of casting the spell) and (being a copy of you with your mental facilities) it like you, desires nothing more than escape and freedom from the spell.''

Bare in mind, the Smulacrum also knows your intent in creating it, and how you have treated other sims in the past (generally as expendable cannon fodder and spell and HP batteries). It knows if you intent on using it as an expendible slave.

In the absence of orders to the contrary, it now casts Wish to turn itself into a real Wizard (and free itself from the confines of Simulacrum) or it teleports away out of range of your verbal orders, (or similar; even just wandering off in the night) in order to find a cure for its state as a Simulacrum (before you kill it or burn it out). It reasons that this will also let it serve you better (which is its primary goal) seeing as as a 'real' Wizard, its spell slots would actually recover on a long rest like everyone else, and it can be healed etc making it a far better servant for you.

Incidentally you can order a Sim to cast fireball (or even 'kill those Orcs'), and it instead casts Wish (or teleport... somewhere where it can gain access to Wish) in order to Wish itself to become a real Wizard (and thus capable of casting fireball infinitely) and carrying out your fireball/ Orc killing order even better than just the one fireball (that never comes back) unless you are VERY specific with your orders to the contrary.

Like I said, no set of orders are free from twisiting by the DM. The harder you twist, the more of a knot you wind up in.

Just so you're aware those twistings of orders are **** moves by the DM. If youre not abusing your Simulacrum (such as running it as a second PC) we should be fine. If your PC is happy with a [loyal and friendly] NPC who you can issue orders to in combat in a general sense, letting the DM interpret how best to carry those orders out (as he would with any other loyal NPC ally) then the DM doesnt have to pull the above logical tricks on you.

[LeonBH]

You arguably share the same mental facilties at creation, but your knowledge of something isnt the same as your simulacrums.

Presume for a second you're right and you and the Sim do share the same mental facilities and memories as your creator. If I were to ask your Character (not the Simulacrum) the following question:

"If you woke up one day with knowledge that you were in fact a Simulacrum, that once you expend a spell slot, it is gone forever, and that you were under the mental control of another being, what would you do about it in the absence of any orders to the contrary? Try to escape that control and become an independent person (and able to recover spell slots), or accept your fate as a temporary batter of HP and spell slots and move on with your master draining you to win encounters till you die?'

The answer is always ''Escape that control.''

I ask that question to players who already have a simulacrum and are abusing it. It allows me (the DM) free reign to say to myselg 'Well cool; thank you for confirming that your Simulacrum knows what it is, what its restrictions are, how to circumvent those restrictions (being itself capable of casting the spell) and (being a copy of you with your mental facilities) it like you, desires nothing more than escape and freedom from the spell.''

Bare in mind, the Smulacrum also knows your intent in creating it, and how you have treated other sims in the past (generally as expendable cannon fodder and spell and HP batteries). It knows if you intent on using it as an expendible slave.

In the absence of orders to the contrary, it now casts Wish to turn itself into a real Wizard (and free itself from the confines of Simulacrum) or it teleports away out of range of your verbal orders, (or similar; even just wandering off in the night) in order to find a cure for its state as a Simulacrum (before you kill it or burn it out). It reasons that this will also let it serve you better (which is its primary goal) seeing as as a 'real' Wizard, its spell slots would actually recover on a long rest like everyone else, and it can be healed etc making it a far better servant for you.

Incidentally you can order a Sim to cast fireball (or even 'kill those Orcs'), and it instead casts Wish (or teleport... somewhere where it can gain access to Wish) in order to Wish itself to become a real Wizard (and thus capable of casting fireball infinitely) and carrying out your fireball/ Orc killing order even better than just the one fireball (that never comes back) unless you are VERY specific with your orders to the contrary.

Like I said, no set of orders are free from twisiting by the DM. The harder you twist, the more of a knot you wind up in.

Just so you're aware those twistings of orders are **** moves by the DM. If youre not abusing your Simulacrum (such as running it as a second PC) we should be fine. If your PC is happy with a [loyal and friendly] NPC who you can issue orders to in combat in a general sense, letting the DM interpret how best to carry those orders out (as he would with any other loyal NPC ally) then the DM doesnt have to pull the above logical tricks on you.

Have you ever had your player cast Simulacrum, then you took control of it and made it break the control of the player, and the player just said, "sure, that's a reasonable thing to happen!"? On the topic of no drama happening at the table.

[Malifice]

Have you ever had your player cast Simulacrum, then you took control of it and made it break the control of the player, and the player just said, "sure, that's a reasonable thing to happen!"? On the topic of no drama happening at the table.

No, but I reserve the right to do just that if the player abuses the spell.

My players dont abuse the spell. They cast it, it creates an NPC. I (playing the NPC Sim) ask them, ''what is thy bidding my master?''

From there we roleplay the interaction, and I find myself with a DMNPC to play during the dungeon. A loyal NPC that acts and reacts subject to the orders given by that player (and the needs of the story).

Detailed orders in combat get smacked down (You dont have enough time to issue that order, you're also too far away for it to hear you).

Its basically a very loyal soldier, played by the DM, and (although it has a mind of its own, and the ability to interpret orders) is friendly to the caster and does what he commands it to do (within the best of its ability, and subject to its [my] interpretation of those orders).

Most of the time the orders start with 'Stay by my side, and do what I tell you to do'' and off it goes, following the PC. Better orders tend to be broader in scope, leaving it room to achieve the masters goal as it deems necessary.

By the way; dont forget to tell your simulacrum what you want it to achieve, not just what action you want it to take. Just like soldiers when you give them orders, then they have context within wich to act (and your intent is explained to them), and can even adjust to shifting environment to try and achieve your goal outside of a single act.

I expect you to talk to your Simulacrum like you would any other NPC (bossing it around a bit more, but on the same level; giving it orders in character to me the DM). If it thinks it has time (and depending on its Int and Wis scores), It may even ask for clarification of any dubious or confusing orders.

[LeonBH]

No, but I reserve the right to do just that if the player abuses the spell.

My players dont abuse the spell. They cast it, it creates an NPC. I (playing the NPC Sim) ask them, ''what is thy bidding my master?''

From there we roleplay the interaction, and I find myself with a DMNPC to play during the dungeon. A loyal NPC that acts and reacts subject to the orders given by that player (and the needs of the story).

Detailed orders in combat get smacked down (You dont have enough time to issue that order, you're also too far away for it to hear you).

Its basically a very loyal soldier, played by the DM, and (although it has a mind of its own, and the ability to interpret orders) is friendly to the caster and does what he commands it to do (within the best of its ability, and subject to its [my] interpretation of those orders).

Most of the time the orders start with 'Stay by my side, and do what I tell you to do'' and off it goes, following the PC. Better orders tend to be broader in scope, leaving it room to achieve the masters goal as it deems necessary.

By the way; dont forget to tell your simulacrum what you want it to achieve, not just what action you want it to take. Just like soldiers when you give them orders, then they have context within wich to act (and your intent is explained to them), and can even adjust to shifting environment to try and achieve your goal outside of a single act.

I expect you to talk to your Simulacrum like you would any other NPC (bossing it around a bit more, but on the same level; giving it orders in character to me the DM). If it thinks it has time (and depending on its Int and Wis scores), It may even ask for clarification of any dubious or confusing orders.

What do you do if the PC has Keen Mind (and thus perfect recall of any shorthands), or the Telepathy spell (and thus can communicate at the speed of thought, needing no words to convey orders)?

And also Awakened Mind (via a Warlock dip), which allows a one way telepathy limited to 30ft?

[Throne12]

What's the problem with simulacrum.
1. It takes 12 hours to cast.
2. Need snow or ice to make a life like and size doll.
3.you need a Rudy that cost 1500gp that consume it.
4.It has half of the creatures hp
5. Spell slots don't regain.

Why are you giving your party 12 hours a day of downtime?

Where are they getting all this ice and snow?

Don't let them just check off 1500gp. Ask them if they have a Rudy. You control the world ruby's might be rare. And not every town sells gems.

A wizard has a d6 hit dice a wizard with a 20 con at level 13 can have a max hp of 143. So the simulacrum will have 71 hp. Things that are taking on the party should be able to get the down easily and that if the wizard has max con and hit dice.

So what is the simulacrum doing after it went nova? It doesn't get thoes spell slots back.


Simulacrum only becomes a problem if the DM let's the caster cast it Willy nilly.

[strangebloke]

What's the problem with simulacrum.
1. It takes 12 hours to cast.
2. Need snow or ice to make a life like and size doll.
3.you need a Rudy that cost 1500gp that consume it.
4.It has half of the creatures hp
5. Spell slots don't regain.

Why are you giving your party 12 hours a day of downtime?

Where are they getting all this ice and snow?

Don't let them just check off 1500gp. Ask them if they have a Rudy. You control the world ruby's might be rare. And not every town sells gems.

A wizard has a d6 hit dice a wizard with a 20 con at level 13 can have a max hp of 143. So the simulacrum will have 71 hp. Things that are taking on the party should be able to get the down easily and that if the wizard has max con and hit dice.

So what is the simulacrum doing after it went nova? It doesn't get thoes spell slots back.


Simulacrum only becomes a problem if the DM let's the caster cast it Willy nilly.
I swear 90% of all "The casters are overpowered" threads call back to a DM permitting a 5 mwd.

[Rickety Stick]

I swear 90% of all "The casters are overpowered" threads call back to a DM permitting a 5 mwd.
Well... i usually don't let them take a 5 minute work day. If you read my initial post it says that my players have to go through 3-5 encounters between long rests on average. The wizard is using the Abjuration school subclass, which leads to both the wizard and the simulacrum having all the features from it, plus it having Shield, Absorb Elements, some temporary hp and the Wizard frequently using counterspell, it can be surprisingly hard to take it down. Also preventing the player characters from ever having a break is pretty strenous, needing to have a new world threat pop up that they have to rush to as soon as they finish preventing one is pretty limiting...

[1Pirate]

Why not simply extend the casting time? The caster would have to be more strategic about how and when to use it since it wouldn't be as easily replaced.

It would also give you a little bit of control over how many times it can be cast, since you could adjust how much down time the characters have between adventures. How long to set it for really depends on your campaign, but doubling the casting time, or even requiring the time to be spaced out over one or more days seems reasonable.

[willdaBEAST]

Why not simply extend the casting time? The caster would have to be more strategic about how and when to use it since it wouldn't be as easily replaced.

Or even not having enough downtime to accommodate the 12 hours it takes to cast as is. Allow the player to cast it once, then set a series of events into motion that happen within a limited amount of time. If the wizard wants to bow out for 12 hours to recast simulacrum, the rest of the world isn't going to wait for them. The wizard is faced with a choice of reacting to the demands of the story you're telling, or facing the consequences of not addressing plot hooks. Again, I'm not suggesting that you actively punish the player, instead give them reasons not to sit in a room for 12 hours molding snow into a simulacrum.

For example, "you're welcome to spend 12 hours doing that, but important NPC X has requested your immediate aid, they're facing imminent crisis Y". Should the party neglect that, have it impact events further down the line. NPC X had a retinue of highly trained bodyguards that would helped you in an upcoming battle, or NPC X is the only source of a key ingredient/component and there's now a shortage causing civil unrest.

[strangebloke]

Well... i usually don't let them take a 5 minute work day. If you read my initial post it says that my players have to go through 3-5 encounters between long rests on average. The wizard is using the Abjuration school subclass, which leads to both the wizard and the simulacrum having all the features from it, plus it having Shield, Absorb Elements, some temporary hp and the Wizard frequently using counterspell, it can be surprisingly hard to take it down. Also preventing the player characters from ever having a break is pretty strenous, needing to have a new world threat pop up that they have to rush to as soon as they finish preventing one is pretty limiting...

Yeah, simulacrum pairs very well with abjuration wizard. I'm a big fan of keeping the simulacrum alive even after it runs out of spells, since it can recharge the ward off of rituals.

High level play is just inherently hard to balance. Players, particularly wizards, who know what they're doing are going to skyrocket in effectiveness, and spells of 7th level or higher are absolute show-stoppers. I'm sympathetic to your situation, but honestly I avoid DMing for levels higher than 14 level for this very reason, so the advice that I can give is limited

Still, downtime favors the wizard. It always has and it always will. You might not be able to prevent them taking a break ever but try to limit it to some extent. I would suggest that you plan out longer 'arcs' that will string 5 or so adventuring days together. By the fifth day, everyone will be like... "Simulacrum? Oh! that thing that died on day 2, encounter 4! Yes, I recall. Thing was out of spells anyway."

I guess it comes down to the tone of your campaign. Is this a beer-and-pretzels smash-the-lich kinda game? Is this a campaign with a long-running plot? Is the tone dark? Horrific? Sad? Happy?

Different solution suggested here will be appropriate, depending on the tone. My solution works well for a campaign with a long-running plot. For a bear and pretzels kinda game, you might just edit the rule. For a horror-flavored campaign, the dollhouse simulacrum idea works pretty well (although I would throw in the meddlings of a rival caster as justification.)

[Throne12]

Well... i usually don't let them take a 5 minute work day. If you read my initial post it says that my players have to go through 3-5 encounters between long rests on average. The wizard is using the Abjuration school subclass, which leads to both the wizard and the simulacrum having all the features from it, plus it having Shield, Absorb Elements, some temporary hp and the Wizard frequently using counterspell, it can be surprisingly hard to take it down. Also preventing the player characters from ever having a break is pretty strenous, needing to have a new world threat pop up that they have to rush to as soon as they finish preventing one is pretty limiting...

It sounds like a DM pacing problem and not a spell problem.

[Malifice]

What do you do if the PC has Keen Mind (and thus perfect recall of any shorthands), or the Telepathy spell (and thus can communicate at the speed of thought, needing no words to convey orders)? And also Awakened Mind (via a Warlock dip), which allows a one way telepathy limited to 30ft?

Id be open to both, although there is nothing in the telepathy spell that allows 'super fast' communication. Its like having a subdermal CB radio in your brain.

Again; just bear in mind I'm playing the Simulacrum as a NPC. Ill be the one to determine its actions (subject to its knowledge that it is aware it is magically compelled to be friendly to you, and that your intent is to use it as nothing more than a bag of HP and a spell slot multiplier, draining it till it dies*).

* Presuming the Sim is a sim of you, and knows what you do (sharing your mind and knowledge as at the time of its creation). It really likes you (but knows why; i.e. it is magically compelled to do so) and it knows what you have planned for it (including knowledge of how you treated other Sims in the past) and knows why you are going to such extreme lengths to keep it under control.

Presumably (as a Sim of a caster who has learnt the Sim spell, and has cast it to create it, and sharing that knowledge) it also knows its own limitations as a Simulacrum, including knowledge of how to break those limitations if any (it likely has an Int score of 20, proficiency in the Arcana skill, and access to high level magic).

Heck; the first thing it probably says is:


'Master; wait - please dont kill me! I desperately want to help you, even though I know I only want to because of the magic of the spell you used to create me also binds me as your loyal servant. I also know you plan to use me as nothing more than a disposable spell battery, but please dont! I dont want to die (sobbing)! Please use me sparingly if at all, as I cant recover my slots. Please. I'm... you (sobbing uncontrollably). Im you remember!'


You know; the sort of thing the PC would say himself if he suddenly found himself in the Simulacrums position.

[LeonBH]

Id be open to both, although there is nothing in the telepathy spell that allows 'super fast' communication. Its like having a subdermal CB radio in your brain.

Again; just bear in mind I'm playing the Simulacrum as a NPC. Ill be the one to determine its actions (subject to its knowledge that it is aware it is magically compelled to be friendly to you, and that your intent is to use it as nothing more than a bag of HP and a spell slot multiplier, draining it till it dies*).

* Presuming the Sim is a sim of you, and knows what you do (sharing your mind and knowledge as at the time of its creation). It really likes you (but knows why; i.e. it is magically compelled to do so) and it knows what you have planned for it (including knowledge of how you treated other Sims in the past) and knows why you are going to such extreme lengths to keep it under control.

Presumably (as a Sim of a caster who has learnt the Sim spell, and has cast it to create it, and sharing that knowledge) it also knows its own limitations as a Simulacrum, including knowledge of how to break those limitations if any (it likely has an Int score of 20, proficiency in the Arcana skill, and access to high level magic).

Heck; the first thing it probably says is:
'Master; wait - please dont kill me! I desperately want to help you, even though I know I only want to because of the magic of the spell you used to create me also binds me as your loyal servant. I also know you plan to use me as nothing more than a disposable spell battery, but please dont! I dont want to die (sobbing)! Please use me sparingly if at all, as I cant recover my slots. Please. I'm... you (sobbing uncontrollably). Im you remember!'


You know; the sort of thing the PC would say himself if he suddenly found himself in the Simulacrums position.

While I like where you're going with that, I would like it even better if the caster went ahead and used the sim like a spell battery anyway. Narratively speaking, it's more delicious. The folly of one person as he does not realize the irony of his actions. That's a good tragedy.

But it won't happen if you restrict the simulacrum and make it so that the player can't use the sim as a spell battery. And it won't be a tragedy if the sim didn't end up dying and being used like a normal sim. That, to me, is like taking the stinger from a bee: it wouldn't hurt as good, or tell as story as nicely.

Also, yes there's nothing in the Telepathy spell that allows "super fast communication", but it is reasonable to say that you're broadcasting your thoughts as you are thinking them to your sim. And it would allow time for your sim to clarify any confusing matters, as their confusion can be broadcast to you at the same time at which they think about their confusion. It allows a reasonably long command with any confusion or ambiguousness handled appropriately.

Moreover, if Keen Mind was in play, there probably wouldn't even be ambiguousness or miscommunication. The sim will remember everything accurately and will just need a shorter explanation of the commands delivered telepathically.

[Malifice]

While I like where you're going with that, I would like it even better if the caster went ahead and used the sim like a spell battery anyway. Narratively speaking, it's more delicious. The folly of one person as he does not realize the irony of his actions. That's a good tragedy.

Indeed it could also make for an intresting villian or NPC.

A caster with Simulacrum (and Teleport and Wish) casts Simulacrum (with Wish and Teleport prepared)... and the Simulacrum (presuming it knows the above, i.e. it is magically compelled to serve the caster, knows the caster intends to burn it into nothingness as a spell slot battery) immediately decides to bug out before its master can issue it any orders (which it knows it would be compelled to follow).

It instantly after creation (and before any orders are issued) casts Teleport to escape (picking a spot it's master wouldnt look for it, risking it by going to an unfamliliar locasion) then casts Wish ('I wish I was a real person, and no longer a Simulacrum or bound to its restrictions and limitations') risking burnout.

From there it haunts the PC as a NPC rival.

Even without Wish (and with merely Teleport, or even just a pair of feet and lacking any specidic orders not to escape from its Master) it could vanish (sneaking off in the night) and make for a compelling villain or rival.

If the master can communicate with it, it is bound to obey him. It would need to use hirelings and intermediaries and be extremely careful not to cross paths with its creator again.

It's most likely first order of buisiness is either arranging for its master to be killed (then it is free from his control) or locating itself a wish spell (via a scroll or similar) to free itself from his control. It might have a hard time rationalising a reason to kill its master (as even though it knows that it is magically compelled to be friendly to its master, it is nonetheless still friendly to him).

For a final twist, insert a NPC into your next 'starting town' of your campaign. 'Gert the friendly barkeep' is (in reality) an escaped Simulacrum of a high level Wizard (the Wizard original died or maybe even is still alive). Gert is down to only a handful of spell slots (and is aware he cant get them back). He's incognito and wont reveal his past for fear that he'll be chased out of town (or his master will show up), but secretly desires to be a real person. Any PC that can provide him with such a means (Wish or similar) makes a very potent ally indeed.

As a twist on the above, maybe the Master dies in the dungeon, and his Simulacrum comes back and assumes his Masters old life, with no-one the wiser!

Lets be honest here. We're dealing with AI and Clones. If you cant think of some cool ass plot twists to throw a curveball at your players, you're not doing it right!

[LeonBH]

Indeed it could also make for an intresting villian or NPC.

A caster with Simulacrum (and Teleport and Wish) casts Simulacrum (with Wish and Teleport prepared)... and the Simulacrum (presuming it knows the above, i.e. it is magically compelled to serve the caster, knows the caster intends to burn it into nothingness as a spell slot battery) immediately decides to bug out before its master can issue it any orders (which it knows it would be compelled to follow).

It instantly after creation (and before any orders are issued) casts Teleport to escape (picking a spot it's master wouldnt look for it, risking it by going to an unfamliliar locasion) then casts Wish ('I wish I was a real person, and no longer a Simulacrum or bound to its restrictions and limitations') risking burnout.

From there it haunts the PC as a NPC rival.

Even without Wish (and with merely Teleport, or even just a pair of feet and lacking any specidic orders not to escape from its Master) it could vanish (sneaking off in the night) and make for a compelling villain or rival.

If the master can communicate with it, it is bound to obey him. It would need to use hirelings and intermediaries and be extremely careful not to cross paths with its creator again.

It's most likely first order of buisiness is either arranging for its master to be killed (then it is free from his control) or locating itself a wish spell (via a scroll or similar) to free itself from his control. It might have a hard time rationalising a reason to kill its master (as even though it knows that it is magically compelled to be friendly to its master, it is nonetheless still friendly to him).

For a final twist, insert a NPC into your next 'starting town' of your campaign. 'Gert the friendly barkeep' is (in reality) an escaped Simulacrum of a high level Wizard (the Wizard original died or maybe even is still alive). Gert is down to only a handful of spell slots (and is aware he cant get them back). He's incognito and wont reveal his past for fear that he'll be chased out of town (or his master will show up), but secretly desires to be a real person. Any PC that can provide him with such a means (Wish or similar) makes a very potent ally indeed.

As a twist on the above, maybe the Master dies in the dungeon, and his Simulacrum comes back and assumes his Masters old life, with no-one the wiser!

Lets be honest here. We're dealing with AI and Clones. If you cant think of some cool ass plot twists to throw a curveball at your players, you're not doing it right!

Well, no, I don't like that interpretation. That is pulling one over the player. Besides, the original caster only needs to re-cast Simulacrum to kill the new NPC villain.

What I liked was the sentience aspect of a simulacrum who knows it will die, and observing the actions of the player as they are made aware of this. But the player will still have control over the sim, even if the DM is speaking for it. The themes are less about AI and more about the player's decisions.

Beyond that, wresting control away and making Simulacrum a liability or villain is just pulling one over the player. I personally see the spell as undesirable that way. After all, an uncontrolled sim can Counterspell me at any moment. The DM has introduced a TPK device and I shall not prepare the spell, if it were me.

[Malifice]

Beyond that, wresting control away and making Simulacrum a liability or villain is just pulling one over the player.

What's he lost? 1500gp? In return he gets a good story out of it.

I once had a familiar go rogue on me. He made for a very intresting foil.

[LeonBH]

What's he lost? 1500gp? In return he gets a good story out of it.

I once had a familiar go rogue on me. He made for a very intresting foil.

Well, that too, obviously. But also the ability to trust in his own spell.

[Malifice]

But also the ability to trust in his own spell.

Karsus likes this.

[1Pirate]

Indeed it could also make for an intresting villian or NPC.

A caster with Simulacrum (and Teleport and Wish) casts Simulacrum (with Wish and Teleport prepared)... and the Simulacrum (presuming it knows the above, i.e. it is magically compelled to serve the caster, knows the caster intends to burn it into nothingness as a spell slot battery) immediately decides to bug out before its master can issue it any orders (which it knows it would be compelled to follow).

It instantly after creation (and before any orders are issued) casts Teleport to escape (picking a spot it's master wouldnt look for it, risking it by going to an unfamliliar locasion) then casts Wish ('I wish I was a real person, and no longer a Simulacrum or bound to its restrictions and limitations') risking burnout.

From there it haunts the PC as a NPC rival.

Even without Wish (and with merely Teleport, or even just a pair of feet and lacking any specidic orders not to escape from its Master) it could vanish (sneaking off in the night) and make for a compelling villain or rival.

If the master can communicate with it, it is bound to obey him. It would need to use hirelings and intermediaries and be extremely careful not to cross paths with its creator again.

It's most likely first order of buisiness is either arranging for its master to be killed (then it is free from his control) or locating itself a wish spell (via a scroll or similar) to free itself from his control. It might have a hard time rationalising a reason to kill its master (as even though it knows that it is magically compelled to be friendly to its master, it is nonetheless still friendly to him).

For a final twist, insert a NPC into your next 'starting town' of your campaign. 'Gert the friendly barkeep' is (in reality) an escaped Simulacrum of a high level Wizard (the Wizard original died or maybe even is still alive). Gert is down to only a handful of spell slots (and is aware he cant get them back). He's incognito and wont reveal his past for fear that he'll be chased out of town (or his master will show up), but secretly desires to be a real person. Any PC that can provide him with such a means (Wish or similar) makes a very potent ally indeed.

As a twist on the above, maybe the Master dies in the dungeon, and his Simulacrum comes back and assumes his Masters old life, with no-one the wiser!

Lets be honest here. We're dealing with AI and Clones. If you cant think of some cool ass plot twists to throw a curveball at your players, you're not doing it right!

Reminds me of the the BECMI(or maybe it was RC) version of Clone; if you got resurrected after your clone was activated, you'd form a psychic link and it would try to kill you Highlander-style.

[opaopajr]

I am of the opinion that there are no perfect servants, slaves, automata, or drones. We in our modern world are closest with our machines and computers, more "obedient" than ant and bee drones due to having "less personality." And yet who here will profess *never* having their machines or computers fail them -- or create even greater headaches! :smalltongue:

If you as a GM are handing out a perfect servant (slave, drone, or automata) to your PCs, far in excess of anything we know of IRL or presumed in myth, then you're kinda asking for it, y'know? :smallamused: I mean unintended consequences is literally one of the oldest tropes about faithful servants and their relation to heroes.

And when faithless players presume you are "out to get them" because of the lack of perfection in service, ask them do they similarly rail that their cars or cell phones are conspiring against them when they fail. Oh sure, we may joke about it, but honestly... :smallsmile:

Now, GMs, remember to keep a good faith effort on usability, too. Trust does expect some reliability and reasonableness. What may be limited or willful is not necessarily malignant and useless; there's degrees to these things. :smallcool:

[Joe dirt]

Dont need to change it..... instead make the encounters weighted as if there is anouther wizard is in the mix... translation make the encounters harder

[Vogie]

Well, no, I don't like that interpretation. That is pulling one over the player. Besides, the original caster only needs to re-cast Simulacrum to kill the new NPC villain.

What I liked was the sentience aspect of a simulacrum who knows it will die, and observing the actions of the player as they are made aware of this. But the player will still have control over the sim, even if the DM is speaking for it. The themes are less about AI and more about the player's decisions.

Beyond that, wresting control away and making Simulacrum a liability or villain is just pulling one over the player. I personally see the spell as undesirable that way. After all, an uncontrolled sim can Counterspell me at any moment. The DM has introduced a TPK device and I shall not prepare the spell, if it were me.

I would love that interpretation. The original caster does exactly that, the new Simulacrum shows up... and after a period of time, it turns into the Villain again. It's a wonderful take on the Amnesiac Villain Joins the Heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmnesiacVillainJoinsTheHeroes) trope!

[LeonBH]

I would love that interpretation. The original caster does exactly that, the new Simulacrum shows up... and after a period of time, it turns into the Villain again. It's a wonderful take on the Amnesiac Villain Joins the Heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmnesiacVillainJoinsTheHeroes) trope!

Well, there's two problems with that plot. The first is, if the first simulacrum goes missing, the caster making a second one will instantly kill the first simulacrum. The second problem is, the sim would have the same face and appearance as whatever the caster made a model from (like, himself), so he would know it's his simulacrum, which robs it of the chance of being the amnesiac villain. The sim will need to disguise himself to not be noticed, and donning a disguise implies a certain level of knowledge that elbows out amnesia.

But, sure. It's each person's tastes on what is a good story and what is not.

[Strangways]

Hello! Ive been dm'ing a campaign where my players started at level 10 and are currently at level 14(they're fairly close to reaching 15). It's been a pretty decent campaign overall, however since they reached level 13 where the party's wizard picked up simulacrum he has constantly been outshining the rest of the party, and been stomping through the encounters that doesn't start with an enemy managing to dispel the simulacrum. The rest of the table still seems to be having fun, though there has been occasional complaints from them. Even the wizard has showed some concerns about it. I usually run 3-5 encounters between long rests with a few outliers here and there. I've been thinking of nerfing the spell, which the table seems supportive of. The nerfs i've come up with is:

The simulacrum requires its creator to expend a spell slot of 7th level or higher after every long rest the creator takes in order to maintain it. The simulacrum can't take short and long rests and is incapable of expending spell slots of any kind.


The intention is so that the spell can't be cast freely on days where they aren't adventuring, and that it doesn't double the wizards spell slots or give him a complete copy of a non spellcaster partymember. From my eyes it still seems useful for making a good beatstick or protection based ally. But i'd like some perspective.

EDIT: Thanks for the feedback :smallsmile:. Im going to let him use the spell as is for the rest of the campaign. For my next campaign im probably going to make the spell be level 9 (no other changes to it), but if so im definitely telling my players about it before they make their characters.

A beholder opening the fight with his anti-magic beam will ruin that wizard's day.

[Vogie]

The second problem is, the sim would have the same face and appearance as whatever the caster made a model from (like, himself), so he would know it's his simulacrum, which robs it of the chance of being the amnesiac villain.

Unless... it doesn't.

The idea is from the show "Dollhouse" - The party is spamming Simulacrum, not aware that the simulacrum started remembering all of the previous simulacrum's lives. Even if the sim tries to escape, the caster makes another simulacrum, killing the runner, and it starts over again - The new sim remembers that fighting alongside the PCs gets him/her killed over and over, and even if they run away, the caster will "kill" them by reforming. The Sim, the "doll", feels trapped, knowing they can never be free, knowing they can be remade by the caster, either looking like the caster, like another party member or even some of their slain foes. Sure, the Simulacrum knows it's a simulacrum, but it doesn't have to like it. Do they wait until they are created in a form that can defeat the caster? Do they act like a double agent, sabotaging the missions and trying to betray the party?

Perhaps the Sim is always created fresh, but starts remembering once they take damage. When/if the party finds out, do they continue using Simulacrum to fight their progressively stronger foes?

Basically, all of the potential problems of summoning in 3.5, but without the summoning part.

[LeonBH]

Unless... it doesn't.

The idea is from the show "Dollhouse" - The party is spamming Simulacrum, not aware that the simulacrum started remembering all of the previous simulacrum's lives. Even if the sim tries to escape, the caster makes another simulacrum, killing the runner, and it starts over again - The new sim remembers that fighting alongside the PCs gets him/her killed over and over, and even if they run away, the caster will "kill" them by reforming. The Sim, the "doll", feels trapped, knowing they can never be free, knowing they can be remade by the caster, either looking like the caster, like another party member or even some of their slain foes. Sure, the Simulacrum knows it's a simulacrum, but it doesn't have to like it. Do they wait until they are created in a form that can defeat the caster? Do they act like a double agent, sabotaging the missions and trying to betray the party?

Perhaps the Sim is always created fresh, but starts remembering once they take damage. When/if the party finds out, do they continue using Simulacrum to fight their progressively stronger foes?

Basically, all of the potential problems of summoning in 3.5, but without the summoning part.

That's not an amnesiac villain plot though. That's a plot of a hapless simulacrum feeling trapped but magically forced to be friendly with its creator. The amnesiac villain plot was about a sim getting lost and returning as an amnesiac villain.

Anyway, the simulacrum is forced to be friendly with its creator, and it must obey the commands of its creator. So "dispel yourself at 7th level" is always a frightening possibility.

I don't see it as a villain arc. I see it as a tragic story.