Building my first D&D5th PC

[Beholder'sCandy]

Hey guys!
We recently bought the 5th Ed. with my group of friends and we want to start a campaign.
So the GM is ready, waiting for us to jump in with our PCs!
This campaign will start from level 1, we've 27 points to get our stats.

I'd love to play a "Knight" style character, so i was looking for the Fighter.
That said, i'm opened for suggestions and advice!

Beholder's Candy

[Unoriginal]

Hey guys!
We recently bought the 5th Ed. with my group of friends and we want to start a campaign.
So the GM is ready, waiting for us to jump in with our PCs!
This campaign will start from level 1, we've 27 points to get our stats.

I'd love to play a "Knight" style character, so i was looking for the Fighter.
That said, i'm opened for suggestions and advice!

Beholder's Candy

Which books do you have available?

Many characters can represent a knight, especially with the Knight Background, but the Cavalier Fighter from the Xanathar's Guide to Everything is probably the most straightforward.

[Snivlem]

Paladin should also be mentioned. Among other things, they get a magical and intelligent summonable mount at level 3, that can be upgraded to a magical and intelligent flying mount later on (if you have access to Xantathars guide)

[nickl_2000]

As Unoriginal mentioned, the Cavalier is a fine choice for a knight. It is your typical "protect the weak" type character. There are other choices as well

Fighters, Paladins, and Clerics all make solid choice for the stereotypical knight.

-Battlemaster Fighter - Gives you special abilities in Combat Maneuvers
-Oath of Devotion Paladins probably being the most logical one for Paladins
-Life Cleric for the healers and protector of the wounded
-War Cleric for Cleric in the midst of battle who can heal, but easily prevent injury by killing the bad guy

[Beholder'sCandy]

Which books do you have available?

Many characters can represent a knight, especially with the Knight Background, but the Cavalier Fighter from the Xanathar's Guide to Everything is probably the most straightforward.

Yes, i'm sorry i forgot to write that: PHB, SCAG and XGTE

[Beholder'sCandy]

Paladin should also be mentioned. Among other things, they get a magical and intelligent summonable mount at level 3, that can be upgraded to a magical and intelligent flying mount later on (if you have access to Xantathars guide)

Paladin is a class i played one time only. Forcing someone to be LG i find that somehow limitating.


As Unoriginal mentioned, the Cavalier is a fine choice for a knight. It is your typical "protect the weak" type character. There are other choices as well

Fighters, Paladins, and Clerics all make solid choice for the stereotypical knight.

-Battlemaster Fighter - Gives you special abilities in Combat Maneuvers
-Oath of Devotion Paladins probably being the most logical one for Paladins
-Life Cleric for the healers and protector of the wounded
-War Cleric for Cleric in the midst of battle who can heal, but easily prevent injury by killing the bad guy

Now about "Protecting the Weak", this time i'm not going to play the "classic knight".
I'm more oriented on some kind of LN-LE type of knight, loyal to his cause, but not protecting the weak.

[nickl_2000]

Paladin is a class i played one time only. Forcing someone to be LG i find that somehow limitating.



Now about "Protecting the Weak", this time i'm not going to play the "classic knight".
I'm more oriented on some kind of LN-LE type of knight, loyal to his cause, but not protecting the weak.

Paladin's are no longer LG only. 5e doesn't have that restriction.

If you aren't about Protecting the Weak a Tempest Cleric and War Cleric are good ones to look at.

Oath of Vengeance Paladin would be a solid choice. As would Oath of Conquest if you have access to Xanathars

[bc56]

Fighter is probably the best class for a knight. However, since it's your first 5e game, I would recommend the Champion archetype, because it is the simplest to play. I would wait until you have more experience to play another subclass, especially Battle Master.

However, for more of a "knight" character, you could go with cavalier. It wouldn't be much harder to play than champion. Just make sure to have a warhorse.

[Avonar]

Thematically, I think an Oath of the Crown Paladin could be the best for a stereotypical knight, in SCAG. It's a good support Paladin build.

[Anonymouswizard]

Paladin is a class i played one time only. Forcing someone to be LG i find that somehow limitating.

Paladins aren't LG only anymore (alignment restrictions are gone, one of the few 4e holdovers*), although the tenants of your Oath will tend to lean towards a certain alignment. Devotion is generally more Lawful Good, Ancients is generally more Neutral, Vengence is generally more Chaotic, and so on. However most alignments can be played with most Oaths, although some are more difficult (personal goal: come up with a completely consistent personality for a Chaotic Evil Oath of Devotion Paladin).

* I'm still annoyed that Healing Surges were replaced by Hit Dice, HS were a much better mechanic IMHO.


Now for a Knight, that's just a backstory rather than a character type. For 'plate armour and sword' knights any class that gets heavy armour will do (off the top of my head some types of Clerics, Fighters, and Paladins, I'm sure there's at least one I've missed). Subclass doesn't really matter, although as a general rule the first subclass in the PhB is the 'iconic' variety (I think the only exceptions are the Cleric and Wizard), so go with mechanics that seem interesting. If you don't care about listed options on your sheet Champion Fighter is the simplest, otherwise almost every subclass is valid.

[Beholder'sCandy]

Paladin's are no longer LG only. 5e doesn't have that restriction.

If you aren't about Protecting the Weak a Tempest Cleric and War Cleric are good ones to look at.

Oath of Vengeance Paladin would be a solid choice. As would Oath of Conquest if you have access to Xanathars

Wow! That's some nice new stuff!
So Paladin is definitely a good choice even if i'm not playing a good character?
I've access to Xanathar yes!

I'm going to read those two clerics.



Fighter is probably the best class for a knight. However, since it's your first 5e game, I would recommend the Champion archetype, because it is the simplest to play. I would wait until you have more experience to play another subclass, especially Battle Master.

However, for more of a "knight" character, you could go with cavalier. It wouldn't be much harder to play than champion. Just make sure to have a warhorse.

So fighter is your advice. About "simplest way to play" i'm not too worried about. I can learn!


Thematically, I think an Oath of the Crown Paladin could be the best for a stereotypical knight, in SCAG. It's a good support Paladin build.

So, Paladin, Fighter and Cleric.

[nickl_2000]

Wow! That's some nice new stuff!
So Paladin is definitely a good choice even if i'm not playing a good character?
.

Absolutely. There are some pretty dark Paladin subclasses out there. Here is the first few sentence of flavour from the Oath of Conquest


The Oath of Conquest calls to paladins who seek glory in battle and the subjugation of their enemies. It isn’t enough for these paladins to establish order. They must crush the forces of chaos

That is not how I would describe most good characters :smallcool:

[Beholder'sCandy]

Paladins aren't LG only anymore (alignment restrictions are gone, one of the few 4e holdovers*), although the tenants of your Oath will tend to lean towards a certain alignment. Devotion is generally more Lawful Good, Ancients is generally more Neutral, Vengence is generally more Chaotic, and so on. However most alignments can be played with most Oaths, although some are more difficult (personal goal: come up with a completely consistent personality for a Chaotic Evil Oath of Devotion Paladin).

* I'm still annoyed that Healing Surges were replaced by Hit Dice, HS were a much better mechanic IMHO.


Now for a Knight, that's just a backstory rather than a character type. For 'plate armour and sword' knights any class that gets heavy armour will do (off the top of my head some types of Clerics, Fighters, and Paladins, I'm sure there's at least one I've missed). Subclass doesn't really matter, although as a general rule the first subclass in the PhB is the 'iconic' variety (I think the only exceptions are the Cleric and Wizard), so go with mechanics that seem interesting. If you don't care about listed options on your sheet Champion Fighter is the simplest, otherwise almost every subclass is valid.

Well CE Oath not my business (i can't imagine how to do so) i'm more on LE Oath (guess if there's one already).
I want him to appear as the good guy always smiling and greetings people while roleplaying, not a creepy lone wolf hiding in the dark so, some social skills will help for sure.

[Unoriginal]

Oath of Conquest Paladin or Cavalier Fighter, then.

[Beholder'sCandy]

Oath of Conquest Paladin or Cavalier Fighter, then.

This Unlimited-Paladin stuff has turned me on!
Lets try to build one if someone can help with that!

[Aett_Thorn]

This Unlimited-Paladin stuff has turned me on!
Lets try to build one if someone can help with that!

Go Dex-based Halfling Oath of Conquest Paladin. Because nobody ever expects the normally cheerful and peace-loving Halfling to wreck face because his foes aren't respecting the Law.

[Beholder'sCandy]

Go Dex-based Halfling Oath of Conquest Paladin. Because nobody ever expects the normally cheerful and peace-loving Halfling to wreck face because his foes aren't respecting the Law.

The fact is DEX usually doesn't get along with Armors, or has this changed aswell?

[Aett_Thorn]

The fact is DEX usually doesn't get along with Armors, or has this changed aswell?

It doesn't. Was just a fun idea.

If you're looking for a Str-based character in heavy armor, then Dragonborn, Human (especially vHuman with Mounted Combatant for that true knight feel), or Dwarf would be good. If your DM is okay with you choosing races from Volo's Guide to Monsters (even though you don't have it), an Aasimar would also be a good fit:

http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/D%26D_5E_Adventure_League_Playable_Races

[nickl_2000]

The fact is DEX usually doesn't get along with Armors, or has this changed aswell?

If you did Dex based, you wouldn't be wearing heavy armor. You would likely be in Studded Leather and focus on the Rapier. If you are wearing Heavy armor is ignore Dex bonuses (or penalties).

[Beholder'sCandy]

What about straight Human?
Yes i'm more on STR based build, full plate build.
How to build it up starting from level 1 and follow a progression into higher levels?

[nickl_2000]

What about straight Human?
Yes i'm more on STR based build, full plate build.
How to build it up starting from level 1 and follow a progression into higher levels?

You cannot go wrong with a Variant Human. Getting a feat at level one is incredibly powerful, plus you can control which stats get bonuses.


Good Choices for feats
Heavy Armor Master - Great at lower levels, tapers off
Healer - Amazing at lower levels, tapers off
Lucky - Always good
Great Weapon Mastery - Pretty much required for a TWF build
Shield Mastery - Good for both offense and defense on a sword and board build
Polearm Master - Required for a reach build
Magic Initiate - Pick up some helper spells and give you more versatility.

[Aett_Thorn]

You cannot go wrong with a Variant Human. Getting a feat at level one is incredibly powerful, plus you can control which stats get bonuses.


Good Choices for feats
Heavy Armor Master - Great at lower levels, tapers off
Healer - Amazing at lower levels, tapers off
Lucky - Always good
Great Weapon Mastery - Optimum for a Two-handed fighting build
Shield Mastery - Good for both offense and defense on a sword and board build
Polearm Master - Optimum for a reach build
Magic Initiate - Pick up some helper spells and give you more versatility.

Just made a few changes for the OP. While some of these feats are definitely great to have, they aren't required. Especially if this is the first game they are playing, going for optimum versus fun might not be the way to go.

[Dyndrilliac]

As others have mentioned, I strongly recommend the Paladin as your "main" class. Not only does it do a great job representing a knight thematically, it's also one of the top tier melee classes mechanically due to Divine Smite. You also get a spell that allows you to summon a magical mount. I also strongly recommend either Great Weapon Master feat or Polearm Master feat (or both, if you can fit them in) if you plan on going with a two-handed weapon (a glaive or lance is a great weapon choice both thematically and mechanically). Also, if you do go two-handed, also make sure to pick the Great Weapon Fighting fighting style. If you want to go Sword and Board instead, I recommend Dueling fighting style.

[2D8HP]

It really depends on how much "crunch" you want to deal with. My first PC was a standard human Fighter (a "Champion" at 3rd level) with a 16 STR, 9 INT, and 14 all other "attributes", I had great fun playing and I didn't have to memorize a lot rules minutiae.

For a "Knight" you may just play the "Knight' background on page 136 of the PHB, but your "Background Feature" are Retainers which are a bit of a hassle, so remember on page 125 of the PHB "Customizing A Background" is RAW, so whatever Background Feature you want (Position of Privilege from Noble is also befitting a Knight, as is Military Rank from Soldier, I'm partial to Rustic Hospitality from the Folk Hero, and Wanderer from the Outlander), choose any two skills (Animal Handling is appropriate for a Knight, Athletics, Perception and Survival are all good skills to have), pick one or two rool prodiciencies, and one or two languages, choose the equipment package from one of the Backgrounds, and then pick out two personality traits, an ideal, a bond, and a flaw.

I'd probably use Noble, Outlander, or Soldier for most of my Background, swapping out one or two skills.

I recommend starting as Fighter, and if the DM isn't having you level up too fast, you'll probably have a good idea of how much options crunch you want to deal with, if not much go Champion at 3rd level, if more a different Sub-Class or if multi-classing is allowed, another class, personally I love levels of Fighter and Rogue, but Paladin and Ranger go well with a Knight concept.

I'd love to get a Fighting Style from Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger each, with a "Favored Enemy" from Ranger of Dragons, and go slayin'!

[Beholder'sCandy]

So i didn't find the Variant Human stuff, so i started like this:
STR 16 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 16

[Dyndrilliac]

So i didn't find the Variant Human stuff, so i started like this:
STR 16 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 16

Variant Human stuff is on page 31 of the Player's Handbook in the bottom right hand corner. Also, your stats are too high for point buy. Did you roll them? You can use this tool (https://1-dot-encounter-planner.appspot.com/point-buy-calculator.html) to quickly calculate your stats via point buy. Just pick your race with the drop down box, and check the boxes for choosing optional ability score improvements (for example, Variant Human allows you to add +1 to any two stats). For the default 27 point buy, I recommend this:

STR 16, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14. I selected STR and CHA as the ability scores to improve by +1.

[Beholder'sCandy]

Yeah i think i.ve done it wrong somehow.
Those stats are perfect!
Now i was looking for the weapon to use

[2D8HP]

So i didn't find the Variant Human stuff, so i started like this:
STR 16 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 16


...STR 16, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14. I selected STR and CHA as the ability scores to improve by +1.


Looks like your going Paladin then.

The "crunch" has intimidated me so far, but the "fluff" for an "Ancients" Paladin has long intrigued me.

Whatever Oath you pick please post your impressions!

[Kane0]

Human paladin is good and easy:

Using standard array you can get str 16, dex 8, con 14, int 10, wis 12, cha 14 if you're using variant human for the feat (heavy armor mastery is a good choice, as is lucky, resilient and sentinel), if you want regular human then Str 16, dex 9, con 14, int 11, wis 13, cha 14 which goes better if you want to use your ASIs to increase your raw stats instead of on feats, or if your DM isn't using them.

Longsword, battleaxe and warhammer are all good weapons to use with a shield, or if you want a two handed weapon then the greatsword is the go-to choice. A longbow or heavy crossbow as a ranged backup is good to have, plus a handy dagger just in case. Plate armor is obviously the best, but it's expensive and you normally start with something like chain which is a good starting point. Just upgrade to what you can afford once you start getting some gold.

For background soldier fits in well, but you can pick pretty much anything depending on where you want your story to start from. Noble (knight) is also a good fit for standard warriorness.

Level 2 you get a fighting style, just pick whatever suits the weapon you want to use. Spellcasting can be swapped around day-to-day so you can get used to what works for you and your group.

Level 3 you choose your oath, that's a big one. Devotion is the standard good guy warrior, but crown might suit your tastes better.

Level 4 is your ASI, which can be used for either more Str (or Cha) or a feat. Both are good.

[Beholder'sCandy]

I want to say thank you to everyone who partecipated in my thread, you guys are awesome and you're helping me a lot!

2d8HP don't worry, i will share my impressions!

Kane0, some questions:
- Having DEX beneath 10 doesn't give me malus somewhere? AC?
- Weapon X + Shield is somehow a Tank way to do it right? Is that worth or it gets outpowered by the Barbarian Bear Totem?
It is more effective to play a "Damage Paladin" or "Tank Paladin", or both are on the same level?
- Crown? I was more oriented on Conquest, but let me check :smallbiggrin:
- About Background i can't decide between Noble Knight and Knight of the Order (SCAG).

[Anonymouswizard]

- Having DEX beneath 10 doesn't give me malus somewhere? AC?

Essentially, as a form of balance having a negative Dexterity modifier gives you a penalty to AC, except when wearing heavy armour. Essentially you get the bonus of a low dexterity not hindering you in exchange for a high dexterity not helping you.

In general if your Dexterity is 13 or lower you want heavy armour, if it's 14 or 15 you want medium, and if it's higher you're wearing light and pushing it to 20 ASAP (except for the small number of people who want to take medium armour master).

It works better than you think as the end result is the same as it was in 3.X: if your dexterity is low and you don't care about stealth you are looking at the best heavy armour you can get. The Medium Armours should really have been split between Light and Heavy, there's just no real reason to use them atm. On, and notes such as 'a buff coat counts as leather armour' and similar things


- Weapon X + Shield is somehow a Tank way to do it right? Is that worth or it gets outpowered by the Barbarian Bear Totem?

Bear Totem Barbarian gets a) resistance to all damage bar psychic and b) the highest AC in the game at level 20. Before level twenty it depends on your point of view, I tend to go for Barbarian tanks just to have an excuse to wear a fancy suit while still having AC16+.

For the record Studded Leather+Shield maxes at 19 (20 with Defence Fighting Style), level 1-19 Barbarian maxes at 20, level 20 barbarian maxes at 22, Plate+Shield is 20 (21 with Defence Fighting Style).

Paladins get a bonus of their Charisma modifier to all saves at, I think it's sixth level? This makes them very good at avoiding disabling abilities, especially as any save they're proficient in also gets their proficiency bonus. Fighters get a lesser boost to their ability to resist them, and Barbarians are more focused on resisting damage.


It is more effective to play a "Damage Paladin" or "Tank Paladin", or both are on the same level?

In short, neither. A Tank Paladin will want to dish out decent damage in order to be sticky, which means that depending on your GM Defence might be the wrong Fighting Style (I recommend Dueling if you want to up your basic damage). A Damage Paladin will want some tankiness to survive dealing damage (because WotC didn't let Smite work with ranged weapons).

Check with your GM how they interpret Smite and the Two-Handed style, some let you reroll ones or twos on your Smite dice as well as your weapon dice. If you use a two handed weapon, this is a massive boost in your damage output that far outweighs the AC for a shield. It is also horrendously cheesy.

[Kane0]

- Initiative saves and some skills, not ac if youre in heavy
- only if you have one in the party :P a shield never really stops being useful, and both types are fine
- really comes down to flavor. Conquest is attacky debuff, crowns is party protecting
- theyre all roughly the same, two skills and a tool or language. Pick based on your characters story

[Beholder'sCandy]

Ok, understood thank you!
So i want to get Heavy Armour ASAP, tho starting i think i'll have a medium one? Some malus to AC i guess.

Anyway, Barbarian seems fitting better for a tank, and the fact i usually play one gives me the right answer, lets build a (more) damage focused Paladin (New game, New life, New style :smallbiggrin:).

I will ask for the dice re-roll stuff on smite.

For the weapon i think i'll pick the Greataxe (i know the stuff since 3.5 about Greatsword 2-12 dmg > Greataxe 1-12, but for "appearances" reasons, you know, i'm still a roleplayer inside :smallsmile:).

Well the background does change. On SCAG it describes only 3 (i think) Knight's Orders, is there a full list somewhere?
Noble Knight, on the other side having: three retainers sounds cool for RP pourposes

[Dyndrilliac]

Having DEX beneath 10 doesn't give me malus somewhere? AC?

If you're wearing heavy armor (which I believe you stated was your plan), then having a negative DEX modifier will not hurt your AC. However, for everything else based on DEX (ability checks, saving throws, ranged weapon attack rolls) you will take a penalty to your roll. If you're not planning on using anything DEX based, or are only planning on using it rarely, then you can probably get away with putting it at 8 to free up two points you can put elsewhere. Just keep in mind though that your initiative roll is a DEX ability check.


Weapon X + Shield is somehow a Tank way to do it right? Is that worth or it gets outpowered by the Barbarian Bear Totem?

Sword and Board (weapon and shield) builds are perfectly viable. They will do slightly less damage than a two-handed build, but it's still a solid option. Bear Totem Barbarian is a defensive build, so it's more in line with Sword and Board style on the Paladin (although the Barbarian is still likely to out damage you when you're not smiting, since they're still probably using a 2-hander).


It is more effective to play a "Damage Paladin" or "Tank Paladin", or both are on the same level?

They are both equally viable. One will do better damage, the other will be tougher to kill. It's your call. There is no wrong answer.


Crown? I was more oriented on Conquest, but let me check :smallbiggrin:

Crown is in SCAG. It's a defensive oath. It would fit your theme to a certain degree, as it's oriented toward a Paladin who has sworn fealty to a nation, sovereign, noble, or deity.

Vengeance, Conquest, and Oathbreaker are the more offensive oriented oaths. Crown, Ancients, and Redemption are the more defensive oriented oaths. Devotion is the one that doesn't really fit in either category; it's the sort of vanilla generic Paladin oath that has both offensive and defensive qualities.


About Background i can't decide between Noble Knight and Knight of the Order (SCAG).

I personally prefer Knight of the Order, just because the History skill provided by the Knight variant of the Noble background will be almost useless to you. But if your DM is willing to allow you to swap History for a skill that is more useful then the Noble Knight will probably be better. Skill proficiencies are the most important mechanical factor of your background. Both backgrounds give Persuasion which is good, you'll get plenty of use out of that with your respectable CHA score. History just almost never gets used. The other options provided by Knight of the Order still aren't going to be a game changer, but you'll get much more mileage out of Arcana or Religion (IMHO Religion is the best thematic choice for a Paladin) than you will out of History.

[Anonymouswizard]

Ok, understood thank you!
So i want to get Heavy Armour ASAP, tho starting i think i'll have a medium one? Some malus to AC i guess.

Don't worry, the tables are sorted out that that each armour category has a 'starting' option, for heavy armour it's (chain)mail.


For the weapon i think i'll pick the Greataxe (i know the stuff since 3.5 about Greatsword 2-12 dmg > Greataxe 1-12, but for "appearances" reasons, you know, i'm still a roleplayer inside :smallsmile:).

Eh, the real boost for the Greatsword is that Two Hander Style activates when either die rolls a 1. Also, if your GM allows Feats a polearm might be better, as Pole Weapon Master grants the ability to make an attack as a bonus action, and many are axe-like, although as a Paladin you can easily keep up with a suboptimal weapon choice.


Well the background does change. On SCAG it describes only 3 (i think) Knight's Orders, is there a full list somewhere?

This is one of the cases where 'ask your GM' is always the appropriate response. Essentially they get to decide what Knightly Orders exist in their world, although most GMs I know would be willing to add in an order if you're willing to do the legwork and have them be minor in [where the campaign takes place].

[Cynthaer]

For the weapon i think i'll pick the Greataxe (i know the stuff since 3.5 about Greatsword 2-12 dmg > Greataxe 1-12, but for "appearances" reasons, you know, i'm still a roleplayer inside :smallsmile:).

Just throwing this in here, because it's easy to get lost in the haze of optimizing:

It is very difficult to screw up a 5e character build.

There are almost no outright "trap" options and everything works pretty much like you'd expect. So unless your character concept is something really weird, just follow your intuition and you'll be fine. Worst case, you'll be short a +1 bonus vs the "optimal" build, and that's fine.

By comparison, in one campaign, I'm currently playing a half-orc wizard with 16 Str and only 14 Int. Her primary damage output is a two-handed quarterstaff strike that only deals d8+3. And she's more than pulling her weight in the party!

Point is, whatever weapon you use, whatever background you take or skills you're proficient in, whatever Oath or fighting style you choose—if it feels right, it probably is. This isn't 3.5e, where you might get surprised by the monk's crappy BAB making its signature feature useless. :smallbiggrin:

[Beholder'sCandy]

Thank you guys!!
For the Knight Order i'm going to use this: Order of the Chain (https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Chain)
Missing only "the code", could use some help creating that!

[Cynthaer]

Thank you guys!!
For the Knight Order i'm going to use this: Order of the Chain (https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Chain)
Missing only "the code", could use some help creating that!

By "code", do you mean Paladin Oath?

If so, be aware that you don't technically need to choose an Oath until level 3, when you get your first subclass features. That said, I see only two Oaths that are compatible with being a member of the Order of the Chain, knee-deep in slavery and subjugation.

Oath of Conquest (Xanathar's Guide to Everything): Straightforward. You vow to crush chaos harshly and permanently. Strength over all, tolerate no dissent, and defeat foes so thoroughly they will never threaten your rule again.

Oath of the Crown (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide): This one's basically a wild card—because it's centered on loyalty to the ideals of a specific nation, sovereign, or civilization, the tenets basically get to be whatever they need to be. In your case, you basically just point to the wiki page for the Order of the Chain and say "I swear to uphold those ideals real good".

(You may have noticed I haven't bothered to go into the mechanical effects of either Oath, because I don't think it really matters right now. Either one will be fine; just play what looks fun and see how it goes.)

[Kane0]

Which is convenient, because I think those are the two shkle was looking at already.

[Nidgit]

This is a bit late but going 16/10/14/10/10/16 after standard human boosts definitely doesn't exceed 27 point buy. In fact, you have one point left over to boost one of those 10s a little.

[Waterdeep Merch]

This is a bit late but going 16/10/14/10/10/16 after standard human boosts definitely doesn't exceed 27 point buy. In fact, you have one point left over to boost one of those 10s a little.

Actually, that would cost 31 points total. The two 16's after your human +1's would come from two 15's, which cost 9 a piece. The 14 Constitution would cost 7. That's 25 points already. You only get to raise one of the last three stats to a 10, and the others get dumped.

Which isn't a bad build, mind you. I'd probably stick the 10 in Wisdom since it's a common save and perception's a great skill. You could always move it to Int or Dex if you'd prefer to be adequate at some particular skills you've got your eyes on, too. It may not be completely optimum, but a -1 isn't really that much different from a +0.

[MxKit]

Actually, that would cost 31 points total. The two 16's after your human +1's would come from two 15's, which cost 9 a piece. The 14 Constitution would cost 7. That's 25 points already.

By "standard human" I think they meant the default human who gets +1 to every stat, not Vuman. The build they laid out would cost 26 points with point buy if so, which tracks.

[Anonymouswizard]

Actually, that would cost 31 points total. The two 16's after your human +1's would come from two 15's, which cost 9 a piece. The 14 Constitution would cost 7. That's 25 points already. You only get to raise one of the last three stats to a 10, and the others get dumped.

Which isn't a bad build, mind you. I'd probably stick the 10 in Wisdom since it's a common save and perception's a great skill. You could always move it to Int or Dex if you'd prefer to be adequate at some particular skills you've got your eyes on, too. It may not be completely optimum, but a -1 isn't really that much different from a +0.

Two 15s (18 points).

One 13 (5 points)

Three 9s (3 points)

Total of 26 points, add one to reach because of standard human, not variant human. Final array of 16/16/14/11/10/10, arrange to taste.

Although variant human is amazing, standard human does exist as well.

[Waterdeep Merch]

By "standard human" I think they meant the default human who gets +1 to every stat, not Vuman. The build they laid out would cost 26 points with point buy if so, which tracks.


Two 15s (18 points).

One 13 (5 points)

Three 9s (3 points)

Total of 26 points, add one to reach because of standard human, not variant human. Final array of 16/16/14/11/10/10, arrange to taste.

Although variant human is amazing, standard human does exist as well.

Ah, yes. Yes they do. With the conversation on feats, I figured the OP was more interested in the variant human. As a standard human, I'd probably bump up one of those 10's to a 12 at the cost of two 9's so that I could have an alright score for a few skills, like maybe history and religion if pumped into Int, or perception and survival if put in Wis. I wouldn't raise Dex over an 8 under most circumstances unless I was planning on not wearing heavy armor, but it isn't lacking for non-skill uses (dex saves are the most common in the game, better initiative, better attacks if you need long range beyond what a javelin offers, etc).

But if you wanted a mix of that stuff, a bunch of 10's certainly aren't far off.

[Cynthaer]

With the conversation on feats, I figured the OP was more interested in the variant human.

Nah, that's just because the forum is more interested in the variant human. :smallbiggrin:

Nothing wrong with a plain old "+1 to everything" human for the newbies, though.

[Beholder'sCandy]

Here's the build i came out with:
Paladin Human (not V.Human for now, i must talk with GM for that one, not sure he will allow Feats. So if they're allowed i'll switch like someone of you was saying, if not i'll stay on this build) Lv.1 - Oath at Lv.3 will be Oath of Conquest which i was already interested in
STR 15+1Human
DEX 9+1Human
CON 13+1Human
INT 9+1Human
WIS 10+1Human
CHA 15+1Human

Weapons:
Greataxe
Flail
Dagger

Skills:
Athletics
Intimidate
Persuasion
Religion

Background: Knight of Order (SCAG)
Languages: I didn't find any Language List to pick from, so going for Common, Dwarvish and Draconic


Now, for code i mean "The Code of Conduct of the Order", i need to create one since that Order doesn't exist in D&D5ed, and i'm glad if someone wants to help defining it.
For the Background of the PC i'd like to do something like "he was on the Good side, but something made him pass through the other side" aka Dart Fener-like stuff, i think this would be cool!

[Beholder'sCandy]

Here's the build i came out with:
Paladin Human (not V.Human for now, i must talk with GM for that one, not sure he will allow Feats. So if they're allowed i'll switch like someone of you was saying, if not i'll stay on this build) Lv.1 - Oath at Lv.3 will be Oath of Conquest which i was already interested in
STR 15+1Human
DEX 9+1Human
CON 13+1Human
INT 9+1Human
WIS 10+1Human
CHA 15+1Human

Weapons:
Greataxe
Flail
Dagger

Skills:
Athletics
Intimidate
Persuasion
Religion

Background: Knight of Order (SCAG)
Languages: I didn't find any Language List to pick from, so going for Common, Dwarvish and Draconic


Now, for code i mean "The Code of Conduct of the Order", i need to create one since that Order doesn't exist in D&D5ed, and i'm glad if someone wants to help defining it.
For the Background of the PC i'd like to do something like "he was on the Good side, but something made him pass through the other side" aka Dart Fener-like stuff, i think this would be cool!

Ok i found "The Code" and also "The Ranks" of the Order, i've customize them a bit also.

Now there are two more things i need to create:
1) "The Test" to be part of the order, since using Hellknights' one is impossible (Require to defeat a Devil and it isn't even flavour-okay since i'm not using the "devil-stuff influence" in the order, this is 5th not Cheliax).
For this one i accept any advice, starting from a test that could be achieved by a 1st level character.

2) "The Reckoning" that every Knight must regularly perform. I was thinking of something involving the Chain or a Spiked Chain. Any thoughts?

[Cynthaer]

If you're dedicated to perfectly porting over the way PathFinder's Hellknights work because you're in love with everything about them, then hey, more power to you.

Personally, I think it's more trouble than it's worth to get that detailed. Keeping the character concept a little flexible makes it easier to plug into the campaign and the party—especially if they lean toward the evil side of the spectrum, and especially if they're someone like a Paladin who takes their ideals very seriously.

Consider: What's going to happen when one of your party members plays a gentle, altruistic Light Cleric of Pelor? Or a freedom-loving, slavery-hating Lore Bard? Or just a bunch of normal people who find the idea of slavery inherently abhorrent?

There are plenty of ways to answer these questions, but you need to have some answer so you don't get stuck with everybody butting heads because "that's what my character would do".

So yeah, I would take the broad flavor and ideals of the Order of the Chain (everybody has a specific role in society and must fill that role; slavery is a legitimate and important institution; enforced servitude is more useful than execution; masters have their own obligations to their inferiors) and not worry about the rest.



As far as personal background details, do you have actual physical (or DnD Beyond) access to Xanathar's Guide to Everything? It's got two sections that are great for this kind of thing, with tables you can either roll on or just use for inspiration.

First, in the subclasses chapter, there are some class-specific items. For Paladins, check out the Personal Goal table in particular if you don't have anything in mind, but they're all good.

Second, there's an entire chapter called "This is Your Life", which has a bunch of tables about your family, childhood, age, life experiences, relationships, and so on. I'm fond of creating entire character concepts this way, but you can obviously pick and choose which bits of your backstory you want to roll for.

I rolled on the Paladin idea tables for these. If any of them spark an idea for you, cool. If not, check out the book for more.

Personal Goal: Faith. You know your path is righteous, or else the gods would not have set you upon it.
Symbol: A red heart, showing the world your commitment to justice.
Nemesis: A high priest who sees you as a misguided fool and wants you to abandon your religion.
Temptation: Greed. Regardless of how much glory and treasure you amass, it's never enough for you.

[Beholder'sCandy]

If you're dedicated to perfectly porting over the way PathFinder's Hellknights work because you're in love with everything about them, then hey, more power to you.

Personally, I think it's more trouble than it's worth to get that detailed. Keeping the character concept a little flexible makes it easier to plug into the campaign and the party—especially if they lean toward the evil side of the spectrum, and especially if they're someone like a Paladin who takes their ideals very seriously.

Consider: What's going to happen when one of your party members plays a gentle, altruistic Light Cleric of Pelor? Or a freedom-loving, slavery-hating Lore Bard? Or just a bunch of normal people who find the idea of slavery inherently abhorrent?

There are plenty of ways to answer these questions, but you need to have some answer so you don't get stuck with everybody butting heads because "that's what my character would do".

So yeah, I would take the broad flavor and ideals of the Order of the Chain (everybody has a specific role in society and must fill that role; slavery is a legitimate and important institution; enforced servitude is more useful than execution; masters have their own obligations to their inferiors) and not worry about the rest.



As far as personal background details, do you have actual physical (or DnD Beyond) access to Xanathar's Guide to Everything? It's got two sections that are great for this kind of thing, with tables you can either roll on or just use for inspiration.

First, in the subclasses chapter, there are some class-specific items. For Paladins, check out the Personal Goal table in particular if you don't have anything in mind, but they're all good.

Second, there's an entire chapter called "This is Your Life", which has a bunch of tables about your family, childhood, age, life experiences, relationships, and so on. I'm fond of creating entire character concepts this way, but you can obviously pick and choose which bits of your backstory you want to roll for.

I rolled on the Paladin idea tables for these. If any of them spark an idea for you, cool. If not, check out the book for more.

Personal Goal: Faith. You know your path is righteous, or else the gods would not have set you upon it.
Symbol: A red heart, showing the world your commitment to justice.
Nemesis: A high priest who sees you as a misguided fool and wants you to abandon your religion.
Temptation: Greed. Regardless of how much glory and treasure you amass, it's never enough for you.

I will use points since i'm not good enough to quote a piece of text :smallbiggrin:

1) Hellknights are not something i'm in love with, i was looking to create an order that could fit my Alignment.
I see Hellknight as a Lawful Evil order (and maybe i'm wrong also), but more oriented on the Lawful axis rather then Evil axis.
For what concerns me i could re-build it from zero if you have any idea on how to create one (or other samples that could fit).
I just want to have my GM work the less possible to introduce a new order (are there some that already exist? in SCAG it describes like 3 orders and none of those is Lawful Evil at all), that's why i want to help him having my order ready.

2)"everybody has a specific role in society and must fill that role; slavery is a legitimate and important institution; enforced servitude is more useful than execution; masters have their own obligations to their inferiors" those could be exactly what i was looking for, a way to make things easier.
I'm not too forced in slavery as a main concept of this Knight Order. I took this because it was easier for me, since i never built a knight order, but i could use any concept if you guys have some samples that i could take as imput.

3)Nice advice for the Background. I own Xanathar so i can definitely take a look there!

[Beholder'sCandy]

Sorry double post :D

[Angelalex242]

Ya know, there IS a full evil 'Blackguard' Oath, called the Oathbreaker, in the DMG. Originally meant for boss level villains, if you feel like getting your Darth Vader on, it's there.

[Theodoxus]

Oathbreaker is really good (irony not intended) if you like necromancy and more importantly, have someone to necromance with. Conquest probably does what he's looking for a little better - and doesn't have the stigma associated with an oathbreaker that can get you kicked out of cities...

[Beholder'sCandy]

Ya know, there IS a full evil 'Blackguard' Oath, called the Oathbreaker, in the DMG. Originally meant for boss level villains, if you feel like getting your Darth Vader on, it's there.
Yes i know, but Conquest is more related with my character.


Oathbreaker is really good (irony not intended) if you like necromancy and more importantly, have someone to necromance with. Conquest probably does what he's looking for a little better - and doesn't have the stigma associated with an oathbreaker that can get you kicked out of cities...

Agree. My main problem right now is to define a Knight Order from zero probably, since Chain's one seems not getting along with the PC. Should i open a new thread somewhere or what?