PRC for a Warlock/Rogue?

[Zombimode]

I'm currently pondering ideas for my new character. One concept I really like is a Warlock/Rogue multiclass. I like the flavour and warlock and rogue do complement each other mechanically.

Of course having a PRC that advances both Warlock stuff (eldritch blast damage and invocations) and Rogue stuff (Sneack attack, skills, "tricky" stuff) would be great.

Arcane Trickster does pretty much everything I want: advances eldritch blast/invocations (at no loss even), sneak attack and the class Features all seem useful to what I want to do with this character. Even the fluff fits.

Problem is of course that Warlock can't by itself qualify for Arcane Trickster.
Mage Hand is not the Problem: you can fulfill this requirement by taking a feat.

But "can cast arcane spells of 3rd Level" is sadly not something that you can qualify with with Warlock.


Are there any other arcane/rogue PRCs that a Warlock could qualify for?

Or any other ideas on realizing this character concept?


I'm Aware of Daggespell Mage. Regardless of how absolutely useless this PRC is for Warlocks, they actually can qualify for Daggespell Mage...
But since this PRC does not offer much for the tax I would have to pay, I would rather pursue other Avenues.

[KillingAScarab]

It is less than ideal, but using a prestige class with a faster spellcasting advancement could get you 3rd level arcane spells. Arcane trickster doesn't require that you advance the spellcasting class you used for entry, and you can even advance divine spellcasting (http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book043.html) with it. Four levels of suel arcanamach or five levels of assassin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) or vigilante (from Complete Adventurer, for a non-evil warlock) have their own prerequisites to meet (especially suel arcanamach), but casting arcane spells is not amongst them. You could dip into those for two or three levels and then advance both warlock and that prestige class' casting with two levels of eldritch theurge from Complete Mage.

But, as nice as impromptu sneak attack would be, unseen seer from Complete Mage is another choice to consider, and it has a lower spellcasting requirement: 1st level arcane spells. You just need access to two divination spells. One level of assassin to know detect poison and true strike (or perhaps vigilant slumber from the same book) will get you in. Advanced learning and divination spell power won't benefit your invocations, though. If you don't care about the extra die of sneak attack or gaining poison use, you could just take a level in sorcerer. That will at least work with your charisma score, and assassins are still subject to arcane spell failure.

Note: often the avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) can be used in place of assassin for non-evil characters. However, that prestige class requires a non-chaotic character. When combined with the alignment restrictions of a warlock, that would be more limiting than assassin.

[Darrin]

Precocious Apprentice + Snowcasting can get you up to 3rd level spells.

Hmm. I like the Assassin suggestion. How about Dragon Devotee 3? +1d6 sneak attack, and 1st-level Sorcerer casting gets you into Unseen Seer.

[skunk3]

My advice if you want to go down a rogue/warlock path is to not take any PrC's. First of all, I am not aware of anything that will advance rogue/warlock simultaneously like a theurge build. Second, you'll want as many invocations as you can get because many of them are PERFECT for rogues/scouts. That said, a 1 level dip of Mindbender probably wouldn't be bad.

Useful invocations for a roguish warlock:

least: baleful utterance, beguiling influence, dark one's own luck, darkness, devil's sight, eldritch spear, entropic warding, leaps and bounds, miasmic cloud, see the unseen (a must-have IMO), spiderwalk, hideous shot (if using bows for sneak attack stuff), cloak of shadows

lesser: charm, fell flight, flee the scene (absolutely indispensable), voidsense, voracious/relentless dispelling, walk unseen, wall of gloom, disembodied hand, vile darkness, witchwood step

greater: chilling tentacles (another "must-have" warlock invocation IMO), enervating shadow (kinda meh but fits thematically), vitriolic blast, wall of perilous flame, warlock's call, caustic mire, nightmares made real, painful slumber of the ages (probably great for a rogue type)

dark: dark foresight, path of shadow, retributive invisibility (you'll likely want this if you get access to darks), word of changing, caster's lament

As you can, see the Warlock has access to invocations that can make it a VERY effective scout. You don't get sneak attack, evasion, etc... but you get lots of really handy abilities, some of which can't be replicated with buying items. You can then take your gold to fill in the cracks.

[Zombimode]

It is less than ideal, but using a prestige class with a faster spellcasting advancement could get you 3rd level arcane spells. Arcane trickster doesn't require that you advance the spellcasting class you used for entry, and you can even advance divine spellcasting (http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book043.html) with it. Four levels of suel arcanamach or five levels of assassin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) or vigilante (from Complete Adventurer, for a non-evil warlock) have their own prerequisites to meet (especially suel arcanamach), but casting arcane spells is not amongst them. You could dip into those for two or three levels and then advance both warlock and that prestige class' casting with two levels of eldritch theurge from Complete Mage.

Possible routes but I feel the costs in level would be to high in that they would distract from the whole "being a Warlock" thing.


But, as nice as impromptu sneak attack would be, unseen seer from Complete Mage is another choice to consider, and it has a lower spellcasting requirement: 1st level arcane spells. You just need access to two divination spells. One level of assassin to know detect poison and true strike (or perhaps vigilant slumber from the same book) will get you in. Advanced learning and divination spell power won't benefit your invocations, though. If you don't care about the extra die of sneak attack or gaining poison use, you could just take a level in sorcerer. That will at least work with your charisma score, and assassins are still subject to arcane spell failure.

Unseen Seer is a nice catch! :smallsmile:
Sadly it seems I would have to more or less ignore most of the class features. Pretty much only Sneak Attack and Caster levels remain - which are good, don't get me wrong. But it feels not quite fitting.


Precocious Apprentice + Snowcasting can get you up to 3rd level spells.

Only if you take that "effective level" means "spell level" instead of "caster level". A reading that I find quite... dubious. YMMV, but this wouldn't fly at my table. Consequently I will not try to get this past my DM.


Hmm. I like the Assassin suggestion. How about Dragon Devotee 3? +1d6 sneak attack, and 1st-level Sorcerer casting gets you into Unseen Seer.

Hm, Dragon Devotee would be nice indeed. To bad it doesn't fit flavorwise. I'm not even sure there are dragons in this setting :smallconfused:


My advice if you want to go down a rogue/warlock path is to not take any PrC's. First of all, I am not aware of anything that will advance rogue/warlock simultaneously like a theurge build. Second, you'll want as many invocations as you can get because many of them are PERFECT for rogues/scouts.

Maybe you are not aware that arcane casting PRCs DO advance both eldritch blast damage and number of invocations?
They do not give access to higher classes of invocation since those are gained by class features. But my plan was to advance Warlock till I get access to Lesser Invocations since as you've noted those are really great for "rogueish" things.

But you may have point that a PRC is not necessary. What about spending some levels to get some SA dice (and skills). Like Rogue1/Sneak Attack Fighter1/Swordsage1 would net 4d6 SA dice (plus some other goodies from Swordsage...)

[Falontani]

if your doing ranged eldritch blast then Spellwarp Sniper is a lovely ranged precision class. Although it does still require the ability to cast third level spells.

Another route to go would be to take bloodline levels as they advance both IIRC. It's really good with Hellfire Warlock progression.



But you may have point that a PRC is not necessary. What about spending some levels to get some SA dice (and skills). Like Rogue1/Sneak Attack Fighter1/Swordsage1 would net 4d6 SA dice (plus some other goodies from Swordsage...)

If you like Swordsage and rogue, Green Pheonix Mage while not advancing your Sneak Attack could be used to advance your initiator level, grant you full BAB, and a good amount of spellcasting levels while your at it. That would require second level spells though.

[Vizzerdrix]

What about qualifying with dragonmarks? Aberrant line can get some good stuff. I think Curse can be had by lv 6.

[Hyfigh]

Nosomatic Chirugeon (sp?) has an ability that lets you ‘sac’ uses of your Sp into casting Inflict spells of the same level. The language specifies casting, so that can be a qualifier. It’s a one or two level dip and needs a Dragonmark feat of some sort.

[Falontani]

Nosomatic Chirugeon (sp?) has an ability that lets you ‘sac’ uses of your Sp into casting Inflict spells of the same level. The language specifies casting, so that can be a qualifier. It’s a one or two level dip and needs a Dragonmark feat of some sort.

Does that work with Su?

[Hyfigh]

Does that work with Su?

Single level dip. You can only sac spells or spell-likes. No mention of Su.

[Eloel]

Only if you take that "effective level" means "spell level" instead of "caster level". A reading that I find quite... dubious. YMMV, but this wouldn't fly at my table. Consequently I will not try to get this past my DM.


If you don't, Heighten Spell becomes completely pointless. Effective level of a spell is the spell level.

[DrMotives]

Well, Psychic Assassin advances a base manifesting class instead of having native casting like the normal Assassin class. It's an online article meant to be paired with Psychic Rogue as the entry class. If minor homebrew is something that flies at your table, you could ask if modifying that into an "eldritch assassin" class would be a go with your DM.

[Troacctid]

If you want sneak attack, your best bet is Unseen Seer, and it's not close to being close. It's relatively easy to get into (just dip Beguiler), and it has full sneak attack, great skill points, and only loses one level of casting.

Daggerspell Mage is probably the next best option, and just look how much worse it is. It has a worse sneak attack progression, taxes you with two useless feats, and in exchange offers you some useless abilities that help you stab people with daggers, as if that's something you would ever actually want to do. Yuck.

Now, if you're not married to sneak attack, you can open up some other options. Urban Savant, for example, is great. Virtuoso is pretty reasonable. Halfling Whistler is pretty strong if you can qualify. You can even go Heartfire Fanner.

Here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1geywITbI4M-Up08SGD-rUHlnobR66aIgKqu7mILkmhU/edit#gid=691970088&fvid=1096364663) is a complete list of Warlock-compatible prestige classes, for your perusal. You can filter it based on skill points to get a sense of your options.


Maybe you are not aware that arcane casting PRCs DO advance both eldritch blast damage and number of invocations?
They do not give access to higher classes of invocation since those are gained by class features.
They totally give access to higher grades of invocations.

[weckar]

Most of my Warlocks these days take Nosomatic Chirurgeon + Southern Magician (Though the racial requirements always require some finagling) so that they can basically get into any caster PrC.