Magic Initiate @ Level 8 for my Lore Bard?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Previously the DM thought we were too new to 5e to take feats but I hear they might be allowed when we hit Level 8.

For my Lore Bard I'm considering taking Magic Initiate to round out the spell list.

The first part of the question is, "Should I?" As you'll see below my character has a number of odd stats and could benefit from a +1 to Constitution and Dexterity.

The second part of the question is, "what class's spells should I take?" The party recently traded a Cleric for a Monk so I feel my Healing Word bonus action is about to get abused big time. Our Wizard does have a ring of spell storing (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Ring%20of%20Spell%20Storing#content) I"m considering filling with Healing Words though if the DM won't let me trade Fly for Revivify.

My First thoughts onto what to take are Warlock spells. It would be nice to have Eldritch Blast as a permanent attack and Hellish Rebuke or Hex seem fun also.

About my party:

My Character
Level 7 Lore Bard: 9 STR, 17 DEX, 11 CON, 9 INT, 11 WIS, 18 CHA
Cantrips: Dancing Lights, Message, Vicious Mockery
Level 1: Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Thunderwave
Level 2: Heat Metal, Phantasmal Force, Shatter
Level 3: Bestow Curse, Counterspell, Fear, Fly, Stinking Cloud
Level 4: Polymorph

Magic Items:
Oath Bow
(https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Oathbow#content)Periapt of Wound Closure
(https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Periapt%20of%20Wound%20Closure#content)
My Party: Fighter, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Monk

Magic Initiate:
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard.
You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list.

In addition, choose one 1st level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again.

Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard.

[jjadned]

My Character
Level 7 Lore Bard: 9 STR, 17 DEX, 11 CON, 9 INT, 11 WIS, 18 CHA
Cantrips: Dancing Lights, Message, Vicious Mockery
Level 1: Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Thunderwave
Level 2: Heat Metal, Phantasmal Force, Shatter
Level 3: Bestow Curse, Counterspell, Fear, Fly, Stinking Cloud
Level 4: Polymorph


I would go to a magic shop and buy some more support type spells. and use your lvl 8th ASI on 20 CHA.

Bards make good 1/2 supports & 1/2 damage. Keep spells like Dissonant and Heat metal and shatter but I'd switch out a thunderwave for a cure wounds. Also don't be afraid to get in there with that 17 dex and swing that sword/bow around a bit.

Edit: Periapt of Wound Closure that helps quite a bit when it comes to the whole living party thing.

I don't like the cantrip feat that much just cause a level 1 spell seems a bit lackluster when you can already cast 4 spells.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I would go to a magic shop and buy some more support type spells. and use your lvl 8th ASI on 20 CHA.

Bards make good 1/2 supports & 1/2 damage. Keep spells like Dissonant and Heat metal and shatter but I'd switch out a thunderwave for a cure wounds. Also don't be afraid to get in there with that 17 dex and swing that sword/bow around a bit.

By go to a magic shop and buy more support spells do you mean trade into them as I level up? I was considering swapping in Shatter instead of something as I'm leveling this time if the DM won't let me Swap Revivify for Fly since the Cleric left.

[jjadned]

By go to a magic shop and buy more support spells do you mean trade into them as I level up? I was considering swapping in Shatter instead of something as I'm leveling this time if the DM won't let me Swap Revivify for Fly since the Cleric left.

Yea I don't switch spells alot cause I don't normally pick up spells out of my normal pool. Shatter is good AOE damage and heat metal and dissonant are good single target. I would talk to your DM about getting fly because it has its uses. Don't be afraid to reason with your DM, I am a big stickler about just saying NO. Unless its just super ridiculous

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Hex combo'd with a multi attack like eldritch blast seems great. What is the 2nd best Warlock Cantip? Friends I think?

[Hootman]

There's no reason for you to take Warlock cantrips while having that Oathbow.

Eldritch Blast, 2 attacks at +7, if both hit you deal about 11 damage, 18 with Hex up and assuming you focus on one target until it dies. That's solid, but if you lose Concentration on Hex or have another encounter later in the day, you'll feel your power drop a bit.
Oathbow, 1 attack with Advantage at +6 ignoring cover, if hits deals an average of 17.5 damage (assuming you focus on one target until it dies), using no resource besides arrows.

Remember that Eldritch Blast doesn't add Cha to damage unless you have at least 2 levels in Warlock (to get the Invocation). Your bow is crazy-strong; if you want to deal damage, that's the most efficient way at your disposal. You can also throw a Heat Metal on the same or another target to pump out damage with your bonus action if you want.

I'd recommend either a "half feat" (+1 one Dex, and whatever additional effects) or the +1 Dex/+1 Con you mentioned. That would make your bow at the same +7 as your spell attacks, and you'll get a lot more damage out of it if that's what you want to do.

As for the spell-swap, it's technically against the rules, but I'd definitely allow it at my table. Trading out the encounter-crushing potential of Fly for the party-saving power of Revivify is great from the DM's perspective. They can throw hard encounters without being worried that players are super likely to die, and make puzzles and fights that would be trivialized by flying players stay fun and challenging.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

There's no reason for you to take Warlock cantrips while having that Oathbow.

Eldritch Blast, 2 attacks at +7, if both hit you deal about 11 damage, 18 with Hex up and assuming you focus on one target until it dies. That's solid, but if you lose Concentration on Hex or have another encounter later in the day, you'll feel your power drop a bit.
Oathbow, 1 attack with Advantage at +6 ignoring cover, if hits deals an average of 17.5 damage (assuming you focus on one target until it dies), using no resource besides arrows.

Remember that Eldritch Blast doesn't add Cha to damage unless you have at least 2 levels in Warlock (to get the Invocation). Your bow is crazy-strong; if you want to deal damage, that's the most efficient way at your disposal. You can also throw a Heat Metal on the same or another target to pump out damage with your bonus action if you want.

I'd recommend either a "half feat" (+1 one Dex, and whatever additional effects) or the +1 Dex/+1 Con you mentioned. That would make your bow at the same +7 as your spell attacks, and you'll get a lot more damage out of it if that's what you want to do.

As for the spell-swap, it's technically against the rules, but I'd definitely allow it at my table. Trading out the encounter-crushing potential of Fly for the party-saving power of Revivify is great from the DM's perspective. They can throw hard encounters without being worried that players are super likely to die, and make puzzles and fights that would be trivialized by flying players stay fun and challenging.

Agreed. For any ONE battle I love the Oathbow. Our DM always counts arrows shot from it as magical for immunity reasons but I sit on its primary too often waiting to see if we find another bigger badder guy that day.

Man, the +1dex +1con would help. Plus give me 8 more hitpoints for hitting the next modifier if I understand right.

Its neat having more than one path to choose from!

[Hootman]

Oh, whoops, somehow I skimmed over the fact that the Oathbow only works 1/day. That makes it's power much more reasonable. Still, that puts it on par with Magic Initiate (Hex) only giving you a 1/day, so it kind of matches up.

[Drackolus]

I got it, but I took magic initate for bard so I could expand my spells known list a little, since if you get it for your own class you can use your spell slots for it. I also already has 20 cha and even stats.

[JBPuffin]

While we're here - does taking Magic Initiate count as knowing the 1st level spell you picked, allowing you to cast it in your normal spell slots (regardless of whether or not the class matches yours)? My DM's allowed it for my AT/Wizard (took MI at level 1), but I don't actually know if that's a house rule or not.

[LeonBH]

While we're here - does taking Magic Initiate count as knowing the 1st level spell you picked, allowing you to cast it in your normal spell slots (regardless of whether or not the class matches yours)? My DM's allowed it for my AT/Wizard (took MI at level 1), but I don't actually know if that's a house rule or not.

You only learn it if you picked it from your class spell list. So if you're a Wizard and you take Magic Initiate: Wizard, you'll also learn the spell and be able to cast it with your spell slots, on top of having a free 1/day casting of the spell.

But if you're a Wizard and you pick Magic Initiate: Cleric, you only have the 1/day casting, even if that spell is also on the Wizard's spell list.

[JBPuffin]

You only learn it if you picked it from your class spell list. So if you're a Wizard and you take Magic Initiate: Wizard, you'll also learn the spell and be able to cast it with your spell slots, on top of having a free 1/day casting of the spell.

But if you're a Wizard and you pick Magic Initiate: Cleric, you only have the 1/day casting, even if that spell is also on the Wizard's spell list.

Huh. Would classes which draw from the same spell list as a full-caster count? (AT and EK taking MI: Wizard, basically)

[LeonBH]

Huh. Would classes which draw from the same spell list as a full-caster count? (AT and EK taking MI: Wizard, basically)

Yes. AT and EK do not cast Rogue or Fighter spells, they cast Wizard spells. So taking from the Wizard spell list will give them a new known spell as well.

[JBPuffin]

Yes. AT and EK do not cast Rogue or Fighter spells, they cast Wizard spells. So taking from the Wizard spell list will give them a new known spell as well.

So it IS RAW (basically)! Hurray! Thanks, Leon.

[LeonBH]

So it IS RAW (basically)! Hurray! Thanks, Leon.

Yup, it's RAW. No problemo.

[BobZan]

Don't pick Magic Initiate on Level 8.

[holywhippet]

I'm thinking of taking ritual caster for my lore bard when I reach level 8. That way I can acquire a few different ritual spells from the wizard list. I will note that I'm doing this to free up a few spells known as I have several ritual spells I use frequently.

BTW your known spells count seems wrong. At level 7 you should have 10 spells known + 2 from magical secrets = 12. You have 13 spells known.

[Citan]

Previously the DM thought we were too new to 5e to take feats but I hear they might be allowed when we hit Level 8.

For my Lore Bard I'm considering taking Magic Initiate to round out the spell list.

The first part of the question is, "Should I?" As you'll see below my character has a number of odd stats and could benefit from a +1 to Constitution and Dexterity.

The second part of the question is, "what class's spells should I take?" The party recently traded a Cleric for a Monk so I feel my Healing Word bonus action is about to get abused big time. Our Wizard does have a ring of spell storing (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Ring%20of%20Spell%20Storing#content) I"m considering filling with Healing Words though if the DM won't let me trade Fly for Revivify.

My First thoughts onto what to take are Warlock spells. It would be nice to have Eldritch Blast as a permanent attack and Hellish Rebuke or Hex seem fun also.

About my party:

My Character
Level 7 Lore Bard: 9 STR, 17 DEX, 11 CON, 9 INT, 11 WIS, 18 CHA
Cantrips: Dancing Lights, Message, Vicious Mockery
Level 1: Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Thunderwave
Level 2: Heat Metal, Phantasmal Force, Shatter
Level 3: Bestow Curse, Counterspell, Fear, Fly, Stinking Cloud
Level 4: Polymorph

Magic Items:
Oath Bow
(https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Oathbow#content)Periapt of Wound Closure
(https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Periapt%20of%20Wound%20Closure#content)
My Party: Fighter, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Monk

Magic Initiate:
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard.
You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list.

In addition, choose one 1st level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again.

Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard.
Honestly, if you are allowed to take feats, considering you probably use concentration spells most of the time, I'd argue the best route is Resilient: Constitution. Not only will it help you in that aspect, it will also give you a nice HP bump.
Now, since you have great DEX, picking up Magic Initiate: Sorcerer/Wizard and grab Mage Armor along with two offensive (Sorcerer) or utility (Wizard) cantrips would work well too. ;)