What would be a good Shadow Blade build?

[sflame56]

What I mean is a class that uses the shadow blade spell as their main weapon/spell and uses it all the time. Other spells would just help support you. What it does, for those wondering, is 2d8 psychic dmg on a hit and if you use 3-4th slots its 3d8, 5-6 4d8, and 7th and higher 5d8. It counts as a simple melee weapon, finesse, light, and thrown (rance 20/60) can re-summon with bonus action if dropped or thrown and yes you become proficient in it when summoned. This means you will have to use dex or str to use unless your a hexblade which means cha. It also requires concentration and range is self so sadly no twinning it and it is a second lvl spell that is an illusion spell.

What I was thinking is either Eldritch knight or Arcane trickster are good ideas though eldritch would only get it lvl 8 while arcane would get it lvl 7. Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards get it lvl 3. Hexblade is another good option. Cool thing is you can still duel wield with it for even more dmg. Sadly bards doesn't get it so you will have to magical secrets at 10 to nab it but its still an option for college of swords. Could multi to get it early. Anyway what do you think I should do to go ham with it?

[Solunaris]

A Warlock can't use Charisma to attack with the Shadow Blade since the Hexblade's ability requires you to touch the weapon at the end of a Long Rest to select it as the weapon benefiting from that feature. (Except in the case of a summoned Pact Weapon)

[sflame56]

A Warlock can't use Charisma to attack with the Shadow Blade since the Hexblade's ability requires you to touch the weapon at the end of a Long Rest to select it as the weapon benefiting from that feature. (Except in the case of a summoned Pact Weapon)

Oh ya totally forgot about that. Thanks for pointing it out. So only str and dex for the weapon. This is because it doesn't say "make a melee spell attack" It just says its a weapon you have. You still add bonuses from str and dex luckily depending on which is better.

[Quoz]

A little tricky to pull off, but I think this build could do wonders with a two man combo.

The worst drawback of the spell is that it takes concentration, and most characters capable of using it well have better uses. Play an elf champion fighter, get a ring of spell storing, and have the party warlock recharge before any short rests. This weapon benefits from trivantage crits more than any other. If you want to do it purely by yourself, go bladesinger 3/champion X.

Crazy/stupid thought aside: paladin streeds and high level beastmaster companions have share spells and can theoretically benefit from this as well but may have some issue wielding. I can totally see the spell augmenting a unicorn horn or giving a monkey a big knife, but I'm not sure a horse holding the blade in its teeth is a great idea.

[sflame56]

A little tricky to pull off, but I think this build could do wonders with a two man combo.

The worst drawback of the spell is that it takes concentration, and most characters capable of using it well have better uses. Play an elf champion fighter, get a ring of spell storing, and have the party warlock recharge before any short rests. This weapon benefits from trivantage crits more than any other. If you want to do it purely by yourself, go bladesinger 3/champion X.

Crazy/stupid thought aside: paladin streeds and high level beastmaster companions have share spells and can theoretically benefit from this as well but may have some issue wielding. I can totally see the spell augmenting a unicorn horn or giving a monkey a big knife, but I'm not sure a horse holding the blade in its teeth is a great idea.

Oh god if you use it with a wolf you go full on dark souls in dnd XD

What I am hoping on more is being able to pull this off without any help. I mean haste would help a lot. Samurai could help by giving advantage and half orc would just increase the dmg.

[Malifice]

Blade singers love this spell. As do arcane tricksters and eldritch knights.

Wizard 9/ EK 11 is pretty nice too.

It sucks on blade locks as it's not their pact weapon and can't benefit from thirsting blade, hex warrior, or life drinker.

[Zene]

Eldritch knights destroy with it; even moreso if they multiclass at mid-high levels. It’s laid out pretty well here: https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/7ssbz6/comment/dtb4y9e?st=JD493XGR&sh=ce068fd1

[Dr. Cliché]

I think the issue with Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights is that they have so few spell slots.

Even at Lv8, they've still got just 2 lv2 slots. That's just 2 minutes of Shadow Blade each day.

I mean, I'm sure both of those classes would like this spell, I just don't think they can really build around it.

Personally, I'd lean towards a Bladesinger/Arcane Trickster.

The Bladesinger gets you more and higher level spell slots, allowing more consistent use of Shadow Blade. The Arcane Trickster gets you Cunning Action (so you can dive in, attack, and then retreat) and Sneak Attack. Both classes can also make good use of Booming Blade.

Alternatively, if you're high enough level, you could use Bladesinger with Eldritch Knight. You lose out on mobility, but War Magic would let you cast a cantrip (e.g. Booming Blade) and then attack again.

I prefer the Arcane Trickster because, even with the bonuses from Eldritch Knight, I don't think you'd want to be on the frontline, soaking up damage. Also, since you'll want high Dex, I think a rogue is a good choice in general (take it as your first level for all of the skills).

[BobZan]

Bladesinger is great with it. Awesome, I'd say. The chassis fits perfectly.

Also, a Sorcerer could do some nice stuff with it. Twin Booming Blade + Quicken GFB!

An EK/Sorcerer could Twin BB + War Magic Bonus Attack + Action Surge + Twin BB for some insane nova damage.

[sflame56]

Eldritch knights destroy with it; even moreso if they multiclass at mid-high levels. It’s laid out pretty well here: https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/7ssbz6/comment/dtb4y9e?st=JD493XGR&sh=ce068fd1

Sweet thanks on the link. It looks like going 6 bard lvls for psychic blade could be devastating. Max out Str/dex then maxing out cha would just nuke all that go after me. That gives me 5 inspiration which would be 3d6 extra psychic dmg. If I go 14 lvls into ed fighter and 6 into whispers bard I get 3 attacks and I will have 5 lvls slots from multi classing. This means you would be doing 12d8 and 3d6 psychic dmg. This would mean if all hit you are doing 135 max with dueling and stat mods included if you had max dex or str and 36 min if you roll all ones. With action max would be 270 and min would be 72. This is not including if you crit on top of that or if you have a belt of giant strength increase you. This is insane amount of dmg. If your hasted you just wreck even more. For race you can either be a half elf and grab elven accuracy for higher crit chance or half orc for better crit and orcish fury for even more dmg. You just save that for crits and hope on the rng gods. God just have a divination wizard on your team and have him give you a nat 20 if they roll one.

All you need is short rests to get back your bardic inspiration and action surge so you are pretty set to do this often. You also got a lot of spell slots to waste for it.

[Spiritchaser]

What I mean is a class that uses the shadow blade spell as their main weapon/spell and uses it all the time. Other spells would just help support you. What it does, for those wondering, is 2d8 psychic dmg on a hit and if you use 3-4th slots its 3d8, 5-6 4d8, and 7th and higher 5d8. It counts as a simple melee weapon, finesse, light, and thrown (rance 20/60) can re-summon with bonus action if dropped or thrown and yes you become proficient in it when summoned. This means you will have to use dex or str to use unless your a hexblade which means cha. It also requires concentration and range is self so sadly no twinning it and it is a second lvl spell that is an illusion spell.

What I was thinking is either Eldritch knight or Arcane trickster are good ideas though eldritch would only get it lvl 8 while arcane would get it lvl 7. Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards get it lvl 3. Hexblade is another good option. Cool thing is you can still duel wield with it for even more dmg. Sadly bards doesn't get it so you will have to magical secrets at 10 to nab it but its still an option for college of swords. Could multi to get it early. Anyway what do you think I should do to go ham with it?

I’d go fighter (probably EK) sorcerer (draconic is probably best, but divine soul (shar) would be cool, and shadow would be a great fit thematically, though your primary weapon will compete with your signature sorcerer ability for your concentration slot.)

Quickened GFB with two attacks is great, and ultimately, quickened GFB with three attacks is diabolical.

Ignore INT and take EK spells that don’t depend on int.

[Throne12]

Why not the good old sorcadin. Start with paladin for heavy armor fighting style dueling. Then take levels in sorcerer.

Paladin 2 levels
Sorcerer 3 levels
Paladin 3 more levels
Sorcerer then finish.
So you are 5 paladin 15 sorcerer
You get 2 attacks then you can quicken a BB or GFB. Then use spell slots for utility, sp, smite, and blade.

[Aett_Thorn]

Would Shadow Blade work with Monk at all? I know it might not be optimal, but since it's a simple melee weapon, wouldn't it qualify for Martial Arts and the other features?

[Crgaston]

Would Shadow Blade work with Monk at all? I know it might not be optimal, but since it's a simple melee weapon, wouldn't it qualify for Martial Arts and the other features?
Heck yeah! Shadow Monk/Shadow Sorcerer... Use Shadow Step to get advantage with Shadow Blade. It’s quite MAD, but doable.

Start as a Vuman Sorcerer, 8 15 12 8 13 15, +1’s in Dex and Cha and Resilient Wis for your feat.

The unexplained emergence of your dark powers frightened your parents (and you) so you were sent to a monastery to learn some discipline. While there, you were recruited by a secret faction in the order who taught you to embrace and control your inner magic.

[Driftw00d]

Sweet thanks on the link. It looks like going 6 bard lvls for psychic blade could be devastating. Max out Str/dex then maxing out cha would just nuke all that go after me. That gives me 5 inspiration which would be 3d6 extra psychic dmg. If I go 14 lvls into ed fighter and 6 into whispers bard I get 3 attacks and I will have 5 lvls slots from multi classing. This means you would be doing 12d8 and 3d6 psychic dmg. This would mean if all hit you are doing 135 max with dueling and stat mods included if you had max dex or str and 36 min if you roll all ones. With action max would be 270 and min would be 72. This is not including if you crit on top of that or if you have a belt of giant strength increase you. This is insane amount of dmg. If your hasted you just wreck even more. For race you can either be a half elf and grab elven accuracy for higher crit chance or half orc for better crit and orcish fury for even more dmg. You just save that for crits and hope on the rng gods. God just have a divination wizard on your team and have him give you a nat 20 if they roll one.

All you need is short rests to get back your bardic inspiration and action surge so you are pretty set to do this often. You also got a lot of spell slots to waste for it.
Not a bad idea, though I would prefer College of Blades. Defensive flourish adds damage AND AC too making your damage 12d8 +21 +1d6. AC for dex in studded leather 12+5dex+2Shield+1Defence Fighting style= 20 (21 if using mage armor instead of Studded Leather)then add 1d6 to that and can add another 5 as reaction from shield making your AC as high as 31/32 without magical items. I wouldn't go over 12 in fighter though, you get more from additional Bard levels- 1 more 5th level slot and 1 6th level slot AND another ASI for a total of 6 ASI's. Or you could go Eldritch Knight12/Bard5/Assassin3 losing the 6th level slot and a 5th level slot but giving a crazy good first strike. 4d8+7 X3attacks X2 from action surge +2d6 sneak attack all critting due to assassination for average damage of around 265 with a max damage of 450.
I like the idea of using a Lightfoot Halfling for this build but then I like the idea of everyone hiding behind a really short tank!

Shadow Blade makes class combos work that might not normally go together. Basically any class that gets 2+ attacks per round can exploit it.

Rangers, especially Hunters and Horizon Walkers, can make nasty use of this spell. Yes, it is not on the Ranger spell list but it only takes 3 levels of Wizard or Sorc to pick it up. And since Rangers are 1/2 casters to Eldritch Knight's 1/3 casters, a Ranger 12/Sorcerer 8 gets a 7th level slot for 5d8 + Mod Per swing. Horizon Walkers get 3 attacks per round as long as they attack different creatures, and Hunter's Gets Horde breaker for a third attack and whirlwind attack which can give a crazy number attacks!

Another interesting use is on a monk. Shadow blade are simple finesse weapons, that makes them Monk weapons as well. An interesting combo would be Shadow Monk 12/Shadow Sorc 8 making a super shadow ninja that uses actual shadows to kill people.

[Driftw00d]

Why not the good old sorcadin. Start with paladin for heavy armor fighting style dueling. Then take levels in sorcerer.

Paladin 2 levels
Sorcerer 3 levels
Paladin 3 more levels
Sorcerer then finish.
So you are 5 paladin 15 sorcerer
You get 2 attacks then you can quicken a BB or GFB. Then use spell slots for utility, sp, smite, and blade.
The problem with a Sorcadin as a chassis for Shadow Blade is there is serious competition for the spell slots. Your going to want to use your slots for Shield, smites and casting/recasting Shadow Blade those slot's are going to go fast. It's probably doable but you're going to run out of gas fast.

[Driftw00d]

I’d go fighter (probably EK) sorcerer (draconic is probably best, but divine soul (shar) would be cool, and shadow would be a great fit thematically, though your primary weapon will compete with your signature sorcerer ability for your concentration slot.)

Quickened GFB with two attacks is great, and ultimately, quickened GFB with three attacks is diabolical.

Ignore INT and take EK spells that don’t depend on int.Something about using Divine soul you could pick up Thaumaturgy as a way to give yourself permanent advantage. Shadow Blade give advantage in Dim Light and you could use Thaumaturgy to dim all the lights in a room.

[Vogie]

That would be really neat. I like the fact that the Shadow Blade is boosted by being in Dim light/ Darkness. I could see a couple options here:

Shadow Sorcerer 3 / Eldritch Knight X
Can't be disarmed, Darkvision/Darkness combo, TWF, 2 attacks per action, Allows you to use Shadow blade (or Darkness) twice as much using sorcery points, plus stronger casting than EK by itself.

Raven Queen Blade Warlock 3 / Swashbuckler Rogue X
Can never be truly disarmed, Darkvision/Darkness combo (once per short rest) (without the Invocation- Darkvision given by Raven), Lesser TWF, refresh SB at short rest. Additional initiative bonus, way to avoid opportunity attacks and additional uses of Sneak Attack during battle.

Tiefling Deep Stalker Ranger 5 / Bladesinger Wizard 3 (would require DM allowance for a Tiefling Bladesinger)
Darkvision/Darkness combo (once per long rest), TWF, Three attacks on first round action, 2 attacks per action afterward. No huge reason to go down either path beyond 5/3, save spell availability, so could be a foundation of a Triple-class into Cleric, Druid or Rogue.

[dejarnjc]

I see all these other build ideas but it's hard to imagine any of the any of them topping either a straight EK, an EK/Bladesinger (or EK/Sorcerer), or just a straight bladesinger IMO.



College of swords bard might be good but the low AC and no shield or the spell shield probably means you'll be spamming defensive flourish every fight. Doesn't come on-line till 10th level though right?

Sorcadin might be OK but you delay your multi-attack for a while w/ most Sorcadin builds meaning you won't get full value out of shadowblade till the mid levels.

Hexblade won't benefit from their invocations

Arcane Trickster is a good choice but it doesn't come on line till the mid levels and you don't get to utilize multi-attack to double the efficacy of the spell.

[rbstr]

I feel like it's pretty hard to beat the extra attacks fighter gets as far as using this spell.
So really you want 11 levels of Fighter. EK can do it on its own or you can add 3+ levels of whatever caster to Samurai/BM/Cavalier.

I guess a Paladin-heavy sorcadin might like it a lot. Rangers are probably going to want to spend concentration on other stuff a lot.

Most things that have lots of slots and higher level spells are going to have much better things to do with their concentration. Like adding it to Swords or Valor bard sounds cool but at a 3-level dip or high level magic secrets? Warlock can't make good use, even as blade-pact since Thirsting Blade only works with your pact weapon.

[DivisibleByZero]

I'm a big fan of ArcaneTrickster13/Bladesinger7 for a Shadow Blade master (if you're not limited to +1 like in AL).
6th level slots (up to 4d8+Dex per), plenty of spells, Extra Attack, and 7d6 Sneak Attack.

[Driftw00d]

I see all these other build ideas but it's hard to imagine any of the any of them topping either a straight EK, an EK/Bladesinger (or EK/Sorcerer), or just a straight bladesinger IMO.



College of swords bard might be good but the low AC and no shield or the spell shield probably means you'll be spamming defensive flourish every fight. Doesn't come on-line till 10th level though right?

Sorcadin might be OK but you delay your multi-attack for a while w/ most Sorcadin builds meaning you won't get full value out of shadowblade till the mid levels.

Hexblade won't benefit from their invocations

Arcane Trickster is a good choice but it doesn't come on line till the mid levels and you don't get to utilize multi-attack to double the efficacy of the spell.
The point of EK mixed with full caster is to get higher level slots to cast with and get them faster. Straight EK doesnt get their first 3rd level slot till 13th level and 4th level slot till 20th level. Where an EK 8 Wizard 3 gets 3rd level slots 2 levels earlier. At EK 11/Wizard 4 you get your first 4th level slot, and get 5th level slots that straight EK's never see as soon as 17th level.

I agree that EK/Bladesinger might be the most potent combo but for players restricted to Pbh+1 in AL it's only available for home games.

[Spiritchaser]

Why not the good old sorcadin. Start with paladin for heavy armor fighting style dueling. Then take levels in sorcerer.

Paladin 2 levels
Sorcerer 3 levels
Paladin 3 more levels
Sorcerer then finish.
So you are 5 paladin 15 sorcerer
You get 2 attacks then you can quicken a BB or GFB. Then use spell slots for utility, sp, smite, and blade.

Sorcadins are always worth appreciating, and it’s never a bad choice... but in this case, the extra damage from shadow blade is a very strong motivation to maximize the number of attacks you get.

And EK sorcerer gets one more (presuming you take EK far enough)

Edit: though I’ll grant that if oathbreaker is on the table the math is shifts a bit

[sflame56]

Sadly I mostly play al so locked to only +1 but shadow sorc 6 ek 12 and warlock 2 sounds like a good idea. Warlock two to get dark vision in normal and magical. All the options do help when I am not playing al.

[Finlam]

There's been a lot of good ideas in this thread; in particular EK and Bladesinger look extremely promising.


It got me thinking, can we make an effective Mystic (Wu-Jen) that uses Shadow Blade?

Let's see how it pans out by level 8:
44 psi points
4 disciplines known (Any Mystic Disciplines)
2 bonus (Wu-Jen) disciplines
6 psi-limit
3 wizard spells known
Potent Psionics (add 1d8 1/round to an attack)

A Wu-Jen works as a single-classed character because they spend 3pp to gain a second level spell slot (or up to 5pp at level 8 to gain a 3rd level spell slot) which lasts until the end of their next Long Rest. Create as many spell slots as needed i.e. 3 or 4.

For disciplines we can pick:
Mastery of Light and Darkness
+5 other disciplines

This gives us the following passive (psionic focus):

While focused on this discipline, natural and magical darkness within 30 feet of you has no effect on your vision.
Nice, it's like a Warlock 2 dip, but Mystic 1 instead and no dip required. Our eyes may not be quite as good as the Warlock's, but we didn't have to spend an invocation on Devil's sight and we have 5 other passives we can switch to any time we want.

But more importantly, we can also do this:

Darkness (1–7 psi). As an action, you create an area of magical darkness, which foils darkvision. Choose a spot you can see within 60 feet of you. Magical darkness radiates from that point in a sphere with a 10-foot radius per psi point spent on this ability. The light produced by spells of 2nd level or less is suppressed in this area.
So our 8th level Wu-Jen can drop up to 6 pp on a 60ft radius darkness, to which they are almost entirely immune, and cast Shadow Blade in the same round. The best part is, the amount of darkness you need can be tailored to the combat. Fighting on a boat? 40ft of darkness. In a cave? 20ft of darkness? In an open plane? 60ft of darkness.

Our Wu-Jen can now attack for 3d8 (Shadow Blade) + 1d8 (Potent Psionics) per attack, while completely invisible inside the darkness.

But wait! There's more!

If we take the Brute Force discipline, it opens open the potential for a smiting effect.

Knock Back (1–7 psi). When you hit a target with a melee attack, you can activate this ability as a reaction. The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be knocked 10 feet away from you per psi point spent. The target moves in a straight line. If it hits an object, this movement immediately ends and the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage per psi point spent.

Though the effectiveness will vary greatly depending on the battlefield (i.e. counter-productive in an open field, but amazing in an enclosed space), up to an extra 6d6 damage on a single hit is pretty nice. Since we'll have advantage on each attack, we'll be criting more often and will be able to Brute Force Smite (BFS) on crits more reliably.

All this by level 8. And we're still pretty much a full caster with 5 other disciplines to buff our saves, resistances, AC, and movement.

All in all, not too bad. Is it better than a straight Bladesinger? I'd say yes, at and before level 8, but I'm not sure about afterwards.

Either way, go-go psionic cheese!

[EDIT]
I thought it tasted a little too cheesy. I did some digging and found out that the darkness effect is supposed to require concentration. Build BUSTED!
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/03/14/mastery-of-light-and-darkness-has-no-specified-duration/

would it also have concentration since it is so similar to the darkness spell and the light feature also has concentration?

Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Yes, concentration is part of an effect's duration.

Seriously though, WoTC, get at least one more proof read in these things please.

[sflame56]

Thanks for all the help guys. By suggestions and tips I think my build will be as follows.
Half-elf for +2 cha +1 dex and +1 con
Big reason also for this is dark vision. I need it if I am in darkness and shadow sorc one only works on your darkness
Stats will be
8 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 12 int, 8 wis, 17 cha or 8 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 17 cha

Starting class fighter.
Go to lvl 2 in fighter then 3 into shadow sorc to get shadow blade and extend/quicken meta magic then 3 more into fighter
First abi grab resilient (cha) to get cha to 18 and get pro in saving throws.
Next finish up sorc to lvl 8 for 2 abis, shadow hound, and more spell slots. Max cha and then go into dex. Rest goes into fighter for lvl 8 abi and 12 abi.
My ending stats should be
8 str
20 dex
16 con
12/10 int
8/10 wis
20 cha

I will have spell slots up to 12th lvl casting with 5th and 6th lvl spell slots for shadow blade. If I go 10 fighter 10 sorc I lose an abi but gain a 7 lvl slot and one more meta magic empowered. So how does this look?

[Zene]

Thanks for all the help guys. By suggestions and tips I think my build will be as follows.
Half-elf for +2 cha +1 dex and +1 con
Big reason also for this is dark vision. I need it if I am in darkness and shadow sorc one only works on your darkness
Stats will be
8 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 12 int, 8 wis, 17 cha or 8 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 17 cha

Starting class fighter.
Go to lvl 2 in fighter then 3 into shadow sorc to get shadow blade and extend/quicken meta magic then 3 more into fighter
First abi grab resilient (cha) to get cha to 18 and get pro in saving throws.
Next finish up sorc to lvl 8 for 2 abis, shadow hound, and more spell slots. Max cha and then go into dex. Rest goes into fighter for lvl 8 abi and 12 abi.
My ending stats should be
8 str
20 dex
16 con
12/10 int
8/10 wis
20 cha

I will have spell slots up to 12th lvl casting with 5th and 6th lvl spell slots for shadow blade. If I go 10 fighter 10 sorc I lose an abi but gain a 7 lvl slot and one more meta magic empowered. So how does this look?

A couple comments:
-By Fighter, you mean Eldritch Knight subclass, right?
-Shadow sorc gives you darkvision at L1, so no need to go half-elf just for that reason. It’s still the optimized choice, though, because of the stat boosts and...
-Elven Accuracy. I’d suggest taking that instead of resilient cha to give you superadvantage in darkness. It still gives you the +1 cha, and I think it’ll be more useful to you than Resilient Cha.

Other than that, looks pretty good. I predict some folks will tell you to hold off on sorc 3 until you get your second attack (fighter 5), and then to hold off on more sorc levels until you get third attack (fighter 11). And that may technically be optimized from a damage perspective. But I think bumping up your spellpower and versatility via sorc early, like you have planned, is a good route too.

[XmonkTad]

-Elven Accuracy. I’d suggest taking that instead of resilient cha to give you superadvantage in darkness. It still gives you the +1 cha, and I think it’ll be more useful to you than Resilient Cha.

Definitely this. Resilient cha isn't useful for much, cha saves just don't come up enough, as your CHA will be fairly solid anyway.

But yeah, no way to use darkness and shadow blade at the same time, which I've seen a few ppl post. Also, if you can shadowstep to a target, you get advantage anyway.

[Driftw00d]

A couple comments:
-By Fighter, you mean Eldritch Knight subclass, right?
-Shadow sorc gives you darkvision at L1, so no need to go half-elf just for that reason. It’s still the optimized choice, though, because of the stat boosts and...
-Elven Accuracy. I’d suggest taking that instead of resilient cha to give you superadvantage in darkness. It still gives you the +1 cha, and I think it’ll be more useful to you than Resilient Cha.

Other than that, looks pretty good. I predict some folks will tell you to hold off on sorc 3 until you get your second attack (fighter 5), and then to hold off on more sorc levels until you get third attack (fighter 11). And that may technically be optimized from a damage perspective. But I think bumping up your spellpower and versatility via sorc early, like you have planned, is a good route too.Since you are getting darkvision from race anyways and you can't have Darkness and Shadow blade going at the same time I would suggest Divine Soul instead of Shadow Sorc, picking up thaumaturgy as a cantrip. Shadow Blade gives advantage in darkness AND Dim light and thaumaturgy can be used to dim the lights, giving you advantage in just about any fight that's not outside in the day. It is also not a concentration spell. Quicken cast as a bonus action you can still get your attack action same round.
I would also suggest not taking any Sorc levels till after Eldritch Knight 8. This give you 2 attacks Shadow Blade as magical secrets and 3 ASI's by 8th level. Max your Dex and Elven accuracy for superadvantage by 8th level? Yes please! Then go Sorc 4 for your spell slots and 4th ASI. Then Fighter 12 for third attack and 5th ASI.

[the secret fire]

People seem to be ignoring the fact that Shadow Blade grants advantage in dim light and darkness. While advantage is always useful, it is most powerful on a rogue for reasons which should be obvious. With that in mind, I think the class Shadow Blade benefits most is probably going to be an Arcane Trickster. A straight AT can't spam the spell as some other builds can, but if he picks his spots, he can use it to devastating effect.

[DivisibleByZero]

People seem to be ignoring the fact that Shadow Blade grants advantage in dim light and darkness.

I gathered that, since pretty much every post here has mentioned it....
:smallamused:

[the secret fire]

I gathered that, since pretty much every post here has mentioned it....
:smallamused:

Well, then they're not thinking deeply about who that actually benefits most. The Rogue doesn't need advantage to land a sneak attack, but because he relies on a single powerful attack per round, advantage matters much more to the Rogue, effectively doubling his chance of landing all of his damage (or tripling it, if he's got Elven Accuracy). Free and easy advantage in melee, without the need for pushing shenanigans or owl familiar cheeze, is incredibly valuable to an AT, more so than it is to the other classes.

[DivisibleByZero]

Well, then they're not thinking deeply about who that actually benefits most. The Rogue doesn't need advantage to land a sneak attack, but because he relies on a single powerful attack per round, advantage matters much more to the Rogue, effectively doubling his chance of landing all of his damage (or tripling it, if he's got Elven Accuracy). Free and easy advantage in melee, without the need for pushing shenanigans or owl familiar cheeze, is incredibly valuable to an AT, more so than it is to the other classes.

Maybe that's why I specifically said that my personal Shadow Blade master is a Rogue13/Wiz7.
Please don't tell me what I'm not thinking about when I've already stated my thoughts earlier in the thread.

And above, in blue, italicized, followed by a smiley? That was sarcasm. :smallwink:

[the secret fire]

Maybe that's why I specifically said that my personal Shadow Blade master is a Rogue13/Wiz7.
Plesae don't tell me what I'm thinking about when I've already stated my thoughts earlier in the thread.

Good lord, you're sensitive.

What is the point in theory-crafting level 20 "bildz" like the one you posted? The OP didn't ask for that. Feels like were back in the dark days of 3.5 here. In the actual life cycle of a normal D&D character, 20th level sees so little play as to be functionally irrelevant. Over the span of an entire career, a straight Arcane Trickster is going to get the best use out of this spell. Mixing wizard levels in won't lead to a better outcome when talking about the use of this spell, as it slows down rogue progression, either severely (if you do it early) or for a questionable payout (if you do it late).

[Dr. Cliché]

Do you think the 'Thrown' portion of Shadow Blade is liable to see much use?

[DivisibleByZero]

Good lord, you're sensitive.

What is the point in theory-crafting level 20 "bildz" like the one you posted? The OP didn't ask for that.

You opened with an incorrect statement, claiming that everyone was ignoring something that was currently being discussed. I made a light joke about it.
You missed the fact that it was a joke, and followed with another incorrect statement claiming that they weren't thinking about the exact thing that I mentioned on page one.
Now you're claiming that I'm too sensitive, and following that with a claim that the OP wasn't asking about a build.

.... read the title of the thread.

[the secret fire]

Now you're claiming that I'm too sensitive, and following that with a claim that the OP wasn't asking about a build.

Your oversensitivity to perceived slight is a question for the jury.

OP was clearly not asking for a level 20 monstrosity when he posted this thread. That so many people (not just you) seem to think that questions of build/class should be addressed by going straight to 20th level characters is just silly, a persistent artifact of the power-gaming culture 3.5 unfortunately engendered. Unless specifically called for, how a character looks at 20th level should be a footnote, at best, in this kind of analysis.

[DivisibleByZero]

Your oversensitivity to perceived slight is a question for the jury.

OP was clearly not asking for a level 20 monstrosity when he posted this thread. That so many people (not just you) seem to think that questions of build/class should be addressed by going straight to 20th level characters is just silly, a persistent artifact of the power-gaming culture 3.5 unfortunately engendered. Unless specifically called for, how a character looks at 20th level should be a footnote, at best, in this kind of analysis.

That's one opinion.
I'd rathger not make assumptions about how high he may or may not want to see it, and just take a quick snapshot of the final overall build. You know, since he asked for a build.

[Dr. Cliché]

Your oversensitivity to perceived slight is a question for the jury.

OP was clearly not asking for a level 20 monstrosity when he posted this thread. That so many people (not just you) seem to think that questions of build/class should be addressed by going straight to 20th level characters is just silly, a persistent artifact of the power-gaming culture 3.5 unfortunately engendered. Unless specifically called for, how a character looks at 20th level should be a footnote, at best, in this kind of analysis.

I think it's useful to have some idea of what a character will look like at lv20, though mostly for the purposes of multiclassing (i.e. how many levels of each respective class you'd want to end up with).

Other than that, I don't think assuming a lv20 character is particularly useful.

Now, granted, the OP didn't actually specify a level. However, since he did point out that Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights don't get Shadow Blade until lv7 and lv8, respectively, I think it's fair to assume he's not looking for a high-level build.

[eversilentone]

A Shadow Blade build that I've been working on is Fighter 11 / Warlock 9. At level 20 that nets you 3 attacks and using a level 5 spell slot you'd striking with Shadow Blade at 4d8, castable 2x per short rest in a worst case scenario. Action Surge makes that a pretty potent nova attack. My suggestion would be taking Fighter 1st level for proficiency in Con to help with concentration checks, then 3 levels of Warlock to get Shadow Blade up and running, next would be 10 levels of Fighter to get those Extra Attacks then round off with 6 more Warlock levels. If you're not limited by PHB+1 you could take Booming Blade to compensate for being 3 levels behind on an Extra Attack.

Minimum stat requirement is 13 Str OR Dex plus 13 Cha. You can build an armoured Str build or you could go with a Dex build - given that you have 5 invocations one could easily be Armour of Shadows (which is fairly thematic), you could have a high AC (20 with shield) and it gives you the option to effectively throw the Shadow Blade if you need to. In either case, Devil's Sight is probably a good bet if you want to try to maximise the advantage giving element of Shadow Blade.

Similarly you don't actually need a high Cha - you certainly could and if you did that means you could attack from range (Eldritch Blast), in melee (Shadow Blade) and be defended (Armour of Shadows) without any mundane equipment, which personally is quite appealing.

Because you're not necessarily MAD, that means you can take the race you want - Tiefling is always thematic but if you're taking Devil's Sight then VHuman for the extra feat could be lovely; Savage Attacker allowing you to reroll weapon damage dice once per turn is quite nice, especially at later levels. Note that this build gets 5 ASIs thanks to Fighter bonus ASIs so it shouldn't be difficult to max Str/Dex and then seriously bump up Con and/or Cha as needed.

It doesn't require any particular archetypes on either side of the build, but obviously doesn't synergise with Hexblade as you can't use Cha to attack with a Shadow Blade. I'd lean towards Battle Master (Dueling) and Fiend (Pact of the Tome) because that gives you further magic and control options and a tiny bit of sustain with Dark One's Blessing, but there's no requirement.

Does any of that make any sense? Probably overlooked something, but always good to get feedback!

Edit: Pretentiously calling this Savage Shadow ;p Also suggest one invocation is Book of Ancient Secrets as level 5 rituals (as it rounds up) are a great thing :)

[Driftw00d]

Do you think the 'Thrown' portion of Shadow Blade is liable to see much use?The thrown portion allows leave your hand empty for a sword and board type character, making warcaster not quite as necessary. Just throw the weapon on your last attack, leaving a hand free to cast shield as reaction if necessary, then bonus action return to hand on next turn.

[Mortis_Elrod]

So question on whether or not familiars carry the concentration when casting a touch spell...

Cuz if so a Warlock/Paladin with chain pact can have a Holy Shadow Blade. Put Sorcerer in there too for more shenanigans. Not sure which Warlock patron but any might do. Celestial maybe, or GOO/Fey, perhaps even unding or fiend.

[sflame56]

I totally missed part where it said it gave you 120 dark vision. So should I be going sword and board then or duel wielding or just dueling?

Edit: Also should I be half elf or should I be a drow?

[CBAnaesthesia]

eldritch would only get it lvl 8 while arcane would get it lvl 7.
You can swap your "any school" spell from level 3 for Shadow Blade at level 7 as an EK, so it doesn't put you behind at that point. Plus you can use Booming/Greenflame Blade with Shadowblade too and really lay down the hurt.
I would probably go Fighter 1/Wizard 3 or 4/ EK X to get Shadowblade at Wizard level 3 (and a SCAG cantrip at level 2), which would obviously delay your extra attack, but give you Bladesinger or War Wizard goodies, or some Abjurer HP that you can easily heal with casting Shield, and quicker access to higher-level (empty) slots to get stronger Shadowblade. Going mostly Fighter gives you enough feats to comfortably take Warcaster to keep Concentration 99% of the time also.
If you take Wizard level 4, you also eventually get a 5th level slot to max out your Shadowblade damage, too (at Wiz 4/EK 15, but still).

[Crgaston]

I totally missed part where it said it gave you 120 dark vision. So should I be going sword and board then or duel wielding or just dueling?

Edit: Also should I be half elf or should I be a drow?
You use Dueling with a shield. +2 AC AND damage.

[Zene]

But yeah, no way to use darkness and shadow blade at the same time, which I've seen a few ppl post. Also, if you can shadowstep to a target, you get advantage anyway.

Lol! I said EA+shadowblade for superadvantage in "darkness", not in "Darkness", though the mixup is understandable. I suppose I should have said superadvantage in "areas of darkness and dim light" instead. :)

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ElatedImmaterialAustraliansilkyterrier-max-1mb.gif

[Citan]

What I mean is a class that uses the shadow blade spell as their main weapon/spell and uses it all the time. Other spells would just help support you. What it does, for those wondering, is 2d8 psychic dmg on a hit and if you use 3-4th slots its 3d8, 5-6 4d8, and 7th and higher 5d8. It counts as a simple melee weapon, finesse, light, and thrown (rance 20/60) can re-summon with bonus action if dropped or thrown and yes you become proficient in it when summoned. This means you will have to use dex or str to use unless your a hexblade which means cha. It also requires concentration and range is self so sadly no twinning it and it is a second lvl spell that is an illusion spell.

What I was thinking is either Eldritch knight or Arcane trickster are good ideas though eldritch would only get it lvl 8 while arcane would get it lvl 7. Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards get it lvl 3. Hexblade is another good option. Cool thing is you can still duel wield with it for even more dmg. Sadly bards doesn't get it so you will have to magical secrets at 10 to nab it but its still an option for college of swords. Could multi to get it early. Anyway what do you think I should do to go ham with it?
No time to think this thoroughly, but I'd go for Warlock 9 / whatever else (Rogue for spike damage, Paladin for smite, even Ranger or Bard could work well).
Simply because nothing is better than having 5th level short rest slots you can dedicate to this.
I'm guessing Sorcerer would be a very nice fit, maybe Battlemaster 3 if you really want Action Surge.

First turn (Sorcerer / Warlock): if you want some obscure area and nobody can create it for you, cast Create Bonfire with an action, Quicken Pyrotechnics for smoke effect. Done.
Second turn: hack away. ;)

Otherwise, as you said, just going Eldricht Knight is probably the easiest way: you won't be able to upcast it, but you can use it with a fair number of attacks when you get to 11, and you can just multiclass into Sorcerer after that so you can Quicken cantrips and get upcast possibility earlier.