[3.PF] Far Realmsy Stuff, and Very Old Creatures

[Malimar]

Two brainstorming questions that I'm posting in one post because they're semi-related (insofar as they pertain to the same campaign). I can use 3e/3.5e and PF answers (the campaign is PF but liberally uses earlier content). I generally prefer first party sources but if you can think of something good from third party then go ahead and pipe up.



First question: I've got a recurring villain who's trying to do Far Realms-related stuff. He's currently just a vampire bard 5. He's currently significantly stronger than the level 3 PCs, but they'll level up and he needs to keep up to remain a threat (and by "a threat" I mostly mean "capable of fighting for a few rounds and then escaping" -- Invisibility as a spell known and at-will Gaseous Form won't do it forever).

For setting reasons, NPCs are limited to level 7-8ish, so I can apply at most three more class levels over the course of the campaign. I think I'm going to start with applying some aberrationy grafts, and he'll gradually grow more and more aberrant as the campaign goes on, eventually acquiring more class levels and one or more templates.

I can use ideas for grafts, items, feats (also, recommendations on how many free bonus feats constitutes a +1 CR bump), and classes/PrCs, but mostly my main question is: what sorts of templates might I apply to this guy as he gets more aberrant? I know about the two Pseudonatural templates, but "mostly normal but capable of transforming into a weird blob thing" isn't really what I'm looking for.



The other question pertains to where the PCs are going next. They've figured out the gist of the basic premises of the villain's plan, but they're eventually going to need to dig up more information to have some more puzzle pieces to put together. This involves learning about things that happened before the beginning of time as they know it, somewhere between 1000 and 3000 years ago (it makes more sense in context).

They've already found just about the only surviving text from the relevant time period (at least, the only surviving text that has anything to do with what they're trying to learn). I want to give them a "make a Knowledge check. ok, you can think of these creatures that might have the knowledge you seek" thing.

Who might they consider consulting who would have memories that far back? So far, I can think of the following:
some of the gods (not all of them are that old, but some are)
an aboleth (individual aboleths aren't that old, but with their genetic memory, they'd have the necessary recollection)
a mind flayer elder brain (an individual elder brain probably wouldn't be this old, but the brains might have passed this information from elder brain to elder brain)
most Outsiders are immortal (but between all the wars between each other Outsiders get into, I don't know how likely it is for one to survive that long -- it'd probably have to be, like, a balor or a pit fiend or a solar or something strong like that)
Any other ideas?

[lord_khaine]

Well.. how about the spirits of the dead.. ? an epic necromancy ritual to speak with someone that died several millenia ago?
Or an artifact that allows you to peer into the past?

[Aka-chan]

A great wyrm dragon might potentially be old enough? Or a powerful fey. There might be constructs lurking in the ruins of some ancient dead civilization that were constructed that far back.

I think Lords of Madness has a "half-farspawn" template that gives some aberrationy features. I don't remember much about it, though, so I can't say whether it would be better for your purposes than the pseudonatural template.

[peacenlove]

Liches can be that old. Faerunian humanoid liches can date back to 5000 years and more, and there is a sarruk lich (one of the creator races) out there.
They can be polite enough to explain anything about the period the PCs are interested in ... for a price.
And they are manipulative and intelligent enough to color it with their own views in order for the PCs to help in their long term plans.

For the aberration stuff there is a spell that turns one creature into aberration for its duration (in BoVD). There are also Aberrant feats in Lords of Madness.

[tadkins]

Tentacles.

That is all.

[Quarian Rex]

To the first question, I might recommend the Eldritch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/eldritch-cr-varies/) template. Flexible and covers all the bases. Could be a lot of fun. Not sure what to do about the actual class levels though. Not a whole lot to add that would make much of a difference in three levels (at least not off the top of my head).

For the second question, how about an Amphibious Aboleth (from Lords of Madness p.20). Say that he was cursed by something similar to a Helm of Opposite Alignment making it both more helpful and more likely to spill the beans on the eldritch status quo (chaotic good can be useful like that). For extra fun, have it meet the PCs in its mountain retreat and have them interact with a masked sage that recounts all of the interesting details. The aboleth can be in a curtained off part of the room just behind, working the 'sage' like some kind of horrible muppet. Opposed perception checks vs. bluff or slight of hand can lead to fun details like perceptive players noticing that his elbows sometimes bend in the wrong place (it's hard to remember where the articulation is supposed to be when you have tentacles), or that his chest doesn't seem to move like he's breathing, even when he speaks (though there is movement...), etc., yet have him speak in a friendly and helpful manner the entire time. This could lead to a great pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain moment.

Just some thoughts.

[DrMotives]

You can get away with a much younger person or creature from the distant past if they were petrified. Maybe not intentionally, but being turned into a statue, if someone comes along later to fix it is like a dollar store stasis. Give them a wand of stone to flesh, and an old medusa lair to find their sage in. Then they may need to revive the correct statue, some might be a bad idea to un-petrify.

[hamishspence]

Damage to the statue carries over to the un-petrified being though.

It doesn't have to be severe damage either - even mild weathering carries over.

In Elder Evils (3.5 splatbook) we see a goblin who's been un-petrified after some weathering - he now has no eyelids, and needs to keep his eyes moisturised with salve. His skin is now somewhat scarred as well.

[DrMotives]

Damage to the statue carries over to the un-petrified being though.

It doesn't have to be severe damage either - even mild weathering carries over.

In Elder Evils (3.5 splatbook) we see a goblin who's been un-petrified after some weathering - he now has no eyelids, and needs to keep his eyes moisturised with salve. His skin is now somewhat scarred as well.

That's not terrible for an NPC for a Lovecraft-themed campaign though. I mean, it sucks for them, but it's good mood setting.

As far as your vampire goes, you might weird him up a little with the horror vampire template from Dragon #348 instead of standard. It's mostly the same, but the energy drain does Wisdom damage instead of negative levels. And they look creepier; empty eye sockets that weep live insects, the entire mouth filled with multiple rows of fangs.

[Malimar]

Well.. how about the spirits of the dead.. ? an epic necromancy ritual to speak with someone that died several millenia ago?
Or an artifact that allows you to peer into the past?
Ooh, those are ideas!


A great wyrm dragon might potentially be old enough? Or a powerful fey. There might be constructs lurking in the ruins of some ancient dead civilization that were constructed that far back.
Oh, yes, great wyrm dragons do get that old, don't they. They're also epic level encounters, and thus unlikely to have anything to ask of level 3 adventurers in trade, but I might be able to work something out. Might find one on one of the other planes, most likely.


I think Lords of Madness has a "half-farspawn" template that gives some aberrationy features. I don't remember much about it, though, so I can't say whether it would be better for your purposes than the pseudonatural template.
Ah, yes, half-farspawn. Very possible! Upon investigation, still has the "can turn into a weird blob" deal that pseudonatural has, but also gets tentacles and a bunch of other goodies -- basically pseudonatural but much more so.


Liches can be that old. Faerunian humanoid liches can date back to 5000 years and more, and there is a sarruk lich (one of the creator races) out there.
They can be polite enough to explain anything about the period the PCs are interested in ... for a price.
And they are manipulative and intelligent enough to color it with their own views in order for the PCs to help in their long term plans.
Any lich that survived that long is likely to be not intent on nefarious activities like taking over the world that would attract adventurer attention, and therefore might plausibly be amenable to helping, yes.


For the aberration stuff there is a spell that turns one creature into aberration for its duration (in BoVD). There are also Aberrant feats in Lords of Madness.
Too bad aberrate only changes type and gives natural armor, otherwise it could be a cool hulking-out sort of trick.

If I were to give him free bonus Aberrant feats, any sense of how many free feats constitutes +1CR? (I wouldn't want to overdo it and leave his HP in the dust -- though there is one Aberrant feat that gives you extra HP for every Aberrant feat you have...)


Tentacles.

That is all.
Well, yes.


To the first question, I might recommend the Eldritch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/eldritch-cr-varies/) template. Flexible and covers all the bases. Could be a lot of fun. Not sure what to do about the actual class levels though. Not a whole lot to add that would make much of a difference in three levels (at least not off the top of my head).
Ooh, interesting! This may do very nicely indeed.


For the second question, how about an Amphibious Aboleth (from Lords of Madness p.20). Say that he was cursed by something similar to a Helm of Opposite Alignment making it both more helpful and more likely to spill the beans on the eldritch status quo (chaotic good can be useful like that). For extra fun, have it meet the PCs in its mountain retreat and have them interact with a masked sage that recounts all of the interesting details. The aboleth can be in a curtained off part of the room just behind, working the 'sage' like some kind of horrible muppet. Opposed perception checks vs. bluff or slight of hand can lead to fun details like perceptive players noticing that his elbows sometimes bend in the wrong place (it's hard to remember where the articulation is supposed to be when you have tentacles), or that his chest doesn't seem to move like he's breathing, even when he speaks (though there is movement...), etc., yet have him speak in a friendly and helpful manner the entire time. This could lead to a great pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain moment.

Just some thoughts.
Interesting, interesting. Even a regular evil aboleth might be amenable to deal-making, but a HoOA-ed one would quite probably be more so.


You can get away with a much younger person or creature from the distant past if they were petrified. Maybe not intentionally, but being turned into a statue, if someone comes along later to fix it is like a dollar store stasis. Give them a wand of stone to flesh, and an old medusa lair to find their sage in. Then they may need to revive the correct statue, some might be a bad idea to un-petrify.
Funnily enough, the first sessions involved the demiplane mansion of 700-years-ago princess, her and all the guests at her 16th birthday party petrified because she was unwise enough not to invite her evil medusa godmother to the party. Unfortunately, this is at best half a millenium short. Still, I suppose one or more petrified guests could be elves...


As far as your vampire goes, you might weird him up a little with the horror vampire template from Dragon #348 instead of standard. It's mostly the same, but the energy drain does Wisdom damage instead of negative levels. And they look creepier; empty eye sockets that weep live insects, the entire mouth filled with multiple rows of fangs.
Ooh, that's potentially a good first step of transformation.

[Bohandas]

What about constructs? Those last a long time provided they're not damaged

[Malimar]

What about constructs? Those last a long time provided they're not damaged
Interesting suggestion. This requires the construct in question to a.) have been invented in the time before time began, b.) be intelligent enough to understand and answer questions, and c.) last long enough without being destroyed. Not impossible, but a tall order. Maybe an Inevitable.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Bohandas
What about constructs? Those last a long time provided they're not damaged….


Originally Posted by Malimar
This requires the construct in question to a.) have been invented in the time before time began, b.) be intelligent enough to understand and answer questions, and c.) last long enough without being destroyed. Not impossible, but a tall order.

A construct that was damaged and fell (or was thrown) into a silty river could be gently covered by sediment and preserved for ages. All it takes is dwarves, kobolds, or some other mining race to uncover it, maybe cast a mending or repair object, and the construct could revive as if no time had passed.

This doesn’t have to take place with your PCs present; this could be a construct that was discovered centuries ago by a clan of dwarves, who put it to work and kept it safe deep in their mines. If it’s reasonably intelligent and designed to answer questions truthfully, that could be all you need.

[Feantar]

Expanding on the construct angle, how about an intelligent item? Not a weapon, but something akin to "the scrying orb of the Head Librarian of Xilenaal (Netherese Enclave)" - something knowledge oriented (and with the knowledge ranks special power).

[Malimar]

Expanding on the construct angle, how about an intelligent item? Not a weapon, but something akin to "the scrying orb of the Head Librarian of Xilenaal (Netherese Enclave)" - something knowledge oriented (and with the knowledge ranks special power).
Ooooooh, there's an idea.

Does Pathfinder have anything equivalent to Weapons of Legacy?

[J-H]

Intelligent and reasonable undead. Mummies come to mind.