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Finback
2018-02-02, 03:51 AM
So, the big T herself. I know what the printed material says, but where do people feel her alignment sits?

On one hand, she's clearly Chaotic Evil, what with her home in the Abyss, etc, where chaos reigns supreme.
But on the other, she's definitely got a Lawful streak - she clearly likes being the Power for evil dragons, has an organised cult, etc.

So is she perhaps best classed as Neutral Evil? She plays both sides of the fence - she does what she wants, when she wants, but she expects a modicum of organisation, with herself at the top?
JackPhoenix
2018-02-02, 06:55 AM
...what.

Tiamat is lawful evil. She lives in the first layer of the Nine Hells, and she does not want chaos, she wants dominion over the mortals ( which she think is right fully hers).

I have no idea where you read the stuff you posted, but it isn't 5e lore

5e Tiamat still lives in Nine Hells, but she's CE.
Unoriginal
2018-02-02, 07:08 AM
5e Tiamat still lives in Nine Hells, but she's CE.

Oh, you're right, my bad.

In this case, Tiamat is chaotic evil, not neutral evil.

Having an organised cult isn't something chaotic beings are unable to have. Tiamat is extremely intelligent, she knows a bunch of yahoos on their own aren't going to accomplish anything.
Millstone85
2018-02-02, 07:39 AM
5e Tiamat still lives in Nine Hells, but she's CE.Not according to the 5e PHB, which lists her as LE.

But her stat block in RoT does call her chaotic evil.

I haven't read or played the rest of the adventure. Does she shift in alignment at some point?
Unoriginal
2018-02-02, 08:10 AM
Not according to the 5e PHB, which lists her as LE.

But her stat block in RoT does call her chaotic evil.

I haven't read or played the rest of the adventure. Does she shift in alignment at some point?

I think they just changed it/decided chaotic evil was more fitting.

It's not like alignment matters much, anyway.
Davrix
2018-02-02, 04:14 PM
I like to think it shifts depending on her mood. Having 5 heads an all you could easily assume that depending on which head is calling the shots, shifts her alignment slightly.

That being said I would call it a shifting scale of chaotic evil. Sometimes she is a little more lawful, other times she simply doesn't care. Which in essence makes her unable to predict and thus chaotic.
RazDelacroix
2018-02-02, 04:31 PM
Evil. But not chaotic, not lawful, and CERTAINLY not neutral. Oh no....

Draconic Evil!

The sort of evil that is absolutely assured of itself, and has no problems with being called evil.
JackPhoenix
2018-02-02, 08:05 PM
I like to think it shifts depending on her mood. Having 5 heads an all you could easily assume that depending on which head is calling the shots, shifts her alignment slightly.

That being said I would call it a shifting scale of chaotic evil. Sometimes she is a little more lawful, other times she simply doesn't care. Which in essence makes her unable to predict and thus chaotic.

Green and blue dragons are lawful evil, black, white and red are chaotic evil. Green and blue handle worshippers, the rest is responsible for her personal behavior.
Sigreid
2018-02-02, 11:41 PM
If I were writing her I would make her neutral evil. Possibly playing her with nearly a multiple personality disorder, changing her behavior as different heads take the lead.
Lombra
2018-02-03, 08:26 AM
Chaotic only means that she has no code of conduit, and she doesn't, it doesn't mean that she likes to randomly destroy random things, it means that she does as she pleases whenever she wants. Having a cult does not mean that you have to be lawful, your cultists may be lawful towards you, but Tiamat herself keeps the cult because she needs/wants it, she is the goddess of chromatic dragons, and generally chromatic dragons represent chaotic evil beings, so it makes sense that she would be chaotic evil, doing what she does for herself only without respect towards others.
Unoriginal
2018-02-03, 08:29 AM
If I were writing her I would make her neutral evil. Possibly playing her with nearly a multiple personality disorder, changing her behavior as different heads take the lead.

Tiamat only has one mind, even if multiple heads. It's Demogorgon who has one mind per head.

Sure, you can play her as you wish, but IMO it's not really Tiamat if you remove her identity to give her defining characteristic of other classic D&D characters.
Sigreid
2018-02-03, 12:38 PM
Tiamat only has one mind, even if multiple heads. It's Demogorgon who has one mind per head.

Sure, you can play her as you wish, but IMO it's not really Tiamat if you remove her identity to give her defining characteristic of other classic D&D characters.

I didn't really mean playing her with different minds, just emphasizing different traits of different dragons as aspects take the lead.
Finback
2018-02-05, 01:26 AM
I didn't really mean playing her with different minds, just emphasizing different traits of different dragons as aspects take the lead.

This is how I've played her when she appeared to a player in a vision. Each head was a different personality - white was animalistic, black was maliciousness, green was greed, cunning and political, blue was vanity and imperious, while red was anger and rage.
Malifice
2018-02-05, 02:38 AM
She's obvioiusly Lawful Good becuase she thinks she is doing good things.

Thats how it works right?
Sigreid
2018-02-05, 08:43 AM
She's obvioiusly Lawful Good becuase she thinks she is doing good things.

Thats how it works right?

Never get tired of throwing that bomb and starting that argument?
Envyus
2018-02-05, 11:47 AM
Just going to get this out of the way. Cause we have a bunch of misinformation going around.

Tiamat lives in Hell not the Abyss and Tiamat is Lawful Evil. The Chaotic Evil on her Rise of Tiamat stat block was an error. (There were quite a few in the book.)
Naanomi
2018-02-05, 12:34 PM
And Tiamat is very keyed into the 'Good VS Evil' on the Cosmic Scale conflict... she knows she is doing Evil things that hurt others and are 'bad' and is quite happy to be doing so. Many villains think they are doing the 'right' thing in their villainy, Tiamat is not one of them
KorvinStarmast
2018-02-05, 05:42 PM
Given that she's a deity, and a dragon of some importance, I'd say Tiamat's alignment is whatever she says it is.
You want to argue with her?
I won't forget (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YRdxHHFKvQ)to put roses on your grave (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YRdxHHFKvQ). :smallbiggrin:

(Hmm, I was trying to get the link to only open at the 3:50 mark, but I gooned it up. With work on it later).