Halfling strength dual wielder?!

[Spacehamster]

So how would you go about building a feral perhaps insane halfling that instead of slicing you up with finesse, instead hacks you to pieces with long swords or battle axes?! Always try to make something with the optimal race but wanted something different yet ofc still playable, setting is point buy, free level 1 feat, start at 10, mc allowed, 2 rare magic items and 1 uncommon.

Were thinking 6 champion 4 Zealot with 15/17/14/8/12/8 starting stats, free feat dual wielder, the 3 ASI’s into 20 STR and 18 DEX. Dual wielding two flame tounge longswords as his two rares and an cloak of protection as his uncommon and Half plate armor. Should pack a punch with increased crit range and at will advantage.

Thoughts of better builds in this vein? Oh and it has to be a Halfling. :)

[Unoriginal]

Halflings can use Strength builds just fine. I'm not sure why you selected a Champion Fighter multiclass, but any Barbarian build would fit that character.

[Spacehamster]

Halflings can use Strength builds just fine. I'm not sure why you selected a Champion Fighter multiclass, but any Barbarian build would fit that character.

Cus 19-20 crit and at will advantage is liek the best thing in existance? :3

[Potato_Priest]

Halflings can use Strength builds just fine. I'm not sure why you selected a Champion Fighter multiclass, but any Barbarian build would fit that character.


I think the champion fighter MC is to take advantage of the large number of critical dice that get dished out by a flame tongue sword.

My question is why you’re putting ASIs into dexterity rather than constitution, since Con would increase your HP, AC, and con saves while dex is pretty much redundant on this character apart from saving throws.

[Spacehamster]

I think the champion fighter MC is to take advantage of the large number of critical dice that get dished out by a flame tongue sword.

My question is why you’re putting ASIs into dexterity rather than constitution, since Con would increase your HP, AC, and con saves while dex is pretty much redundant on this character.

15/16/16/8/10/8 suits your taste better? Free feat squat nimbleness from xanathars for 16 at start then +4 STR and dual wielder from his three ASI’s? :)

[strangebloke]

So how would you go about building a feral perhaps insane halfling that instead of slicing you up with finesse, instead hacks you to pieces with long swords or battle axes?! Always try to make something with the optimal race but wanted something different yet ofc still playable, setting is point buy, free level 1 feat, start at 10, mc allowed, 2 rare magic items and 1 uncommon.

Were thinking 6 champion 4 Zealot with 15/17/14/8/12/8 starting stats, free feat dual wielder, the 3 ASI’s into 20 STR and 18 DEX. Dual wielding two flame tounge longswords as his two rares and an cloak of protection as his uncommon and Half plate armor. Should pack a punch with increased crit range and at will advantage.

Thoughts of better builds in this vein? Oh and it has to be a Halfling. :)

I mean, it's strong for sure. The bonus action attack helps clean up the barbarian's otherwise sloppy action economy and you're not missing any ASI's. Grabbing two flametongues is probably not the most efficient use of two rare magic items, but I ain't gonna fight you over that.

Brutal Crit ain't gonna give you much extra damage here, however, if you're crit-fishing, but that isn't really a cause for alarm. Your crits will certainly be strong enough as-is. Better question: why pump DEX up to 18? This is a pure strength build, right? I'd start 15/13(+2)/15(+1)/8/12/8 and ending with 20/16/16/8/12/8. CON is a better stat than DEX, after all, especially if you're wearing half-plate.

Halflings do fine with any strength build, though. The thing is, there isn't much reason to go STR-based duel-wielder in general. This build is about the only effective one I can think of, except maybe a funky champion/paladin build.

[Spacehamster]

I mean, it's strong for sure. The bonus action attack helps clean up the barbarian's otherwise sloppy action economy and you're not missing any ASI's. Grabbing two flametongues is probably not the most efficient use of two rare magic items, but I ain't gonna fight you over that.

Brutal Crit ain't gonna give you much extra damage here, however, if you're crit-fishing, but that isn't really a cause for alarm. Your crits will certainly be strong enough as-is. Better question: why pump DEX up to 18? This is a pure strength build, right? I'd start 15/13(+2)/15(+1)/8/12/8 and ending with 20/16/16/8/12/8. CON is a better stat than DEX, after all, especially if you're wearing half-plate.

Halflings do fine with any strength build, though. The thing is, there isn't much reason to go STR-based duel-wielder in general. This build is about the only effective one I can think of, except maybe a funky champion/paladin build.

Yeah re-thought the DEX thing and prob most optimal starting attributes with the racials and +1 from squat nimbleness: 16/14/16/8/13/8, going 16 champ 4 barb and pick up resilient WIS at some point? Curious what rare items you would take instead? :)

[strangebloke]

Yeah re-thought the DEX thing and prob most optimal starting attributes with the racials and +1 from squat nimbleness: 16/14/16/8/13/8, going 16 champ 4 barb and pick up resilient WIS at some point? Curious what rare items you would take instead? :)

No, flametongue is good, it's just an inherent inefficiency of TWF that you need to get two enchanted weapons.

[Spacehamster]

No, flametongue is good, it's just an inherent inefficiency of TWF that you need to get two enchanted weapons.

Yeah true, always liked TWF so were quite sad at its power compared to GWF and archery, the thought of a 3,5 ft tall muscled meatball wielding two flaming swords almost as big as him is amazing tho so feel I have to try it lol

[Joe the Rat]

I'd be tempted to go with boots of striding and springing, because nothing says crazy like a halfling with a 15' vertical (and the potential 60' long jump). And nothing can slow you down.

Any chance you can get the flametongue as a more esoteric weapon? flaming swords are cool and all, but I'd be partial to a flaming morningstar ("It's a baseball bat with nails. On fire"), or flaming flails.

[Spacehamster]

I'd be tempted to go with boots of striding and springing, because nothing says crazy like a halfling with a 15' vertical (and the potential 60' long jump). And nothing can slow you down.

Any chance you can get the flametongue as a more esoteric weapon? flaming swords are cool and all, but I'd be partial to a flaming morningstar ("It's a baseball bat with nails. On fire"), or flaming flails.

Afb atm are springing and striding boots uncommon? Also do you need to attune to them? If not I can probably buy them in some major city since we are going to use a high magic setting where at least uncommon magic items are fairly
easy to find in bigger cities from stores. :) Love the idea of this furious little ball of all muscle just pouncing on the enemy tho so all for those boots, just the cloak is plain better gameplay wise so think ill go with that but look to get the boots
in game. :)

I like swords so will go with that, will have them have a jagged nasty appearance tho to go with his feral nature. :)

[Joe the Rat]

They are uncommon (which is why I brought them up), but they do require attunement. That would pretty much eat up all your slots.
Yeah, practically speaking, the cloak is a better choice. But if you can get a jump spell running...


My players include a gnome with a belt of hill giant strength, and a strength 8 goblin with the boots. They have leaping contests.

[Spacehamster]

Okay created the character now.

Name: Ridon Backbreaker
Race: Stout halfling
1st level feat: Squat nimbleness(acrobatics and +1 STR)
Background: Outlander
Barbarian proffesions: Animal handling and perception
ASI 1&2: +4 STR
ASI 3: Dual wielder feat.
Ability scores at level 10: 20/14/16/8/13/8
Levels: 6 Champion / 4 Zealot
Equipment: Fang(flametounge), Claw(flametounge), cloak of protection and a half plate giving 19 AC.
Fighting style: TWF

Standard attack turn with rage active: 1d8 + 2d6 fire + 1d6 radiant/necrotic from zealot + 7 * 3, can ofc action surge if the mobs really need to die.
Aware radiant from zealot is one attack per turn when raging. :)

Will just go straight 10 more champion levels for those sweet 7 ASI´s total, will take +2 CON, Tough, Resilient(WIS) and mobile, not decided order yet.

[Citan]

So how would you go about building a feral perhaps insane halfling that instead of slicing you up with finesse, instead hacks you to pieces with long swords or battle axes?! Always try to make something with the optimal race but wanted something different yet ofc still playable, setting is point buy, free level 1 feat, start at 10, mc allowed, 2 rare magic items and 1 uncommon.

Were thinking 6 champion 4 Zealot with 15/17/14/8/12/8 starting stats, free feat dual wielder, the 3 ASI’s into 20 STR and 18 DEX. Dual wielding two flame tounge longswords as his two rares and an cloak of protection as his uncommon and Half plate armor. Should pack a punch with increased crit range and at will advantage.

Thoughts of better builds in this vein? Oh and it has to be a Halfling. :)
Hi!
Interesting build, and good stats. ;)
Free level one feat is dandy. ^^

Depending on how you envision your character I'll have some ideas.
For example...
- STR Versatility? Grab Battlemaster 6 / Thief Rogue 4 with Dual Wielder, Sharpshooter, Healer and +2 STR (or Brawny if allowed) feat, stats 16-17 / 14 / 16 / 8 / 13 / 8.
Thief is here so you can heal others as well as keep up with thrown attacks if you go up to Fighter 11.
It's a "martial-only" niche though. If you go for optimization there are other ways. ;)

- Self-buff? Considering your concept, Bless may be hard to fluff, however spells like Divine Favor, Longstrider, Magic Weapon or Haste would be easily refluffed as you being unnaturally focused or enraged.
In other words, Barbarian is for sure the easiest way to translate a raging madman into mechanics so if it's the perfect fit forget about my suggestions, but if you'd like some spellcasting you could do without it instead.

- Halfling made powerful through a Giant Belt?
Take Belt of Giant Strength as one of your rare.
On the minus side, you create a very strong single point of failure as far as your STR-based concept goes (although, honestly it can be fun if the DM knows how to make it interesting rather than just punishing).
On the plus side, it means you can dump STR hard unless you pick Barbarian as a subclass. Which however you could be damn tempted to do. ^^

Soooo... If the main things for you are "being enraged" and "don't care about ranged, melee always and only" I'd say your build is a pretty nice one.
I'd suggest a slight change though: make Barbarian the main class instead, so Barbarian 6 / Champion 4 (or even push Barb to 7 if you like advantage on Initiative and want to push to 9 for more critical damage anyways).
Why? You "lose" one feat to instead gain...
- 10 extra feet (the more speed the better, especially for someone who cares only about melee).
- Another rage (seems not much, but at that level there is still a low chance to lose your concentration. Best case, that means another full encounter of rage. ;)).
- An "Indomitable" like ability, which you get more often than Fighter, earlier than Fighter. What's not to like?

Also, I'd suggest Dual Wielder (duh) for free feat, and grabbing the Belt, so you can take feats or bump other stats without worrying on your attack efficiency (with Belt of Giant Strengh, you could start with 13 STR so more points to spend on DEX / WIS / CON.
For example, you could start with even stats and just pick Mobile (another 10 feet + better Initiative) and Mage Slayer.
Or Resilient: Wisdom (to cover that weakness) and Inspiring Leader to be the cold-fury Halfling that makes the motivating opening for the party.
Last suggestion, which I reaaaally recommend if your DM allow UA feats: Sentinel + Fell Handed with two handaxes. Pair that with Athletics skills (so YOU are not restrained/prone), that 21 STR score and Reckless Attack when needed, and your enemies will hate you while your party will love you (well, unless everyone else in your party are ranged attackers XD).
Depending on how your DM understands the interaction between both, you could even grab Bountiful Luck instead of Sentinel to further increase the chance of having an auto-effect activating.

[Potato_Priest]

Also, I'd suggest Dual Wielder (duh) for free feat, and grabbing the Belt, so you can take feats or bump other stats without worrying on your attack efficiency (with Belt of Giant Strengh, you could start with 13 STR so more points to spend on DEX / WIS / CON.
For example, you could start with even stats and just pick Mobile (another 10 feet + better Initiative) and Mage Slayer.
Or Resilient: Wisdom (to cover that weakness) and Inspiring Leader to be the cold-fury Halfling that makes the motivating opening for the party.
Last suggestion, which I reaaaally recommend if your DM allow UA feats: Sentinel + Fell Handed with two handaxes. Pair that with Athletics skills (so YOU are not restrained/prone), that 21 STR score and Reckless Attack when needed, and your enemies will hate you while your party will love you (well, unless everyone else in your party are ranged attackers XD).


I've thought about this for a couple minutes, and I just can't figure out if there's supposed to be some sort of synergy between fell handed and sentinel. I know that sentinel reduces enemy speed to zero on an opportunity attack and fell handed has a chance to knock things prone if you're attacking with advantage, but because reckless attack only applies to attacks you make on your turn (and would thus not apply to sentinel opportunity attacks) I don't see what they really do for each other. Are you just recommending them because they're good individually?

It's also worth noting that the OP's build with the flame tongues is going to do dramatically better damage (as well as losing less of their offensive power if they lose their magic items), perhaps at the cost of crowd control, which this suggestion seems better at.

[opaopajr]

Exploit Lance and Halfling Luck & Size. Find a mount you like. Take Dual Wielder feat and Two-Weapon Style. Now you have 2x 1d12+STR Attacks that re-roll 1s on the attack roll.

Later take Mounted Combatant to preserve your mount -- and maybe buy a big mount like an elephant and have advantage vs. smaller unmounted things.

There's class overlap for the Two-Weapon Style, so knock yourself out with how you want to build from there. But since you're houserule given a free feat at lvl 1 this whole thing comes online by lvl 1. As for multiclassing, sure!, what's your passion? :smallcool:

With the Adv and re-rolls, taking Lucky or Champion are interesting options. :smallsmile: As for magic items? Whatever makes you happy, and maybe a magic lance.

[Spacehamster]

Exploit Lance and Halfling Luck & Size. Find a mount you like. Take Dual Wielder feat and Two-Weapon Style. Now you have 2x 1d12+STR Attacks that re-roll 1s on the attack roll.

Later take Mounted Combatant to preserve your mount -- and maybe buy a big mount like an elephant and have advantage vs. smaller unmounted things.

There's class overlap for the Two-Weapon Style, so knock yourself out with how you want to build from there. But since you're houserule given a free feat at lvl 1 this whole thing comes online by lvl 1. As for multiclassing, sure!, what's your passion? :smallcool:

With the Adv and re-rolls, taking Lucky or Champion are interesting options. :smallsmile: As for magic items? Whatever makes you happy, and maybe a magic lance.

Even as dw lances is strong it feels so unrealistic so I would prob not enjoy playing that build, thanks for the suggestion tho. :)

[Wryte]

The only major roadblock to playing a strength-based halfling is that you can't use heavy weapons effectively. Otherwise, I have a halfling barbarian that I had a great time playing before I dropped AL for a home game.

Aggraga the Tiny, 4th level Stout Halfling Barbarian:

STR 14
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 10

Background: Outlander
Proficiencies: Athletics, Perception, Survival, Intimidation, Drums
Languages: Common, Halfling, Orcish
Feats: Dual Wielder

Barbarian Path: Totem Warrior
Totem Spirit: Eagle

Put all this together, and I had a 2'8" girl tearing her way through packs of orcs with impunity. Her high Dex and Con scores, plus the AC bonus from Dual Wielder and a Cloak of Protection I scored early on gave me an unarmored AC of 18 at 4th level, while the combination of Halfling Nimbleness (able to move through the space of any creature larger than herself) plus the Eagle Totem Spirit (opportunity attacks against her are made at disadvantage while she's raging and not wearing heavy armor) made her impossible to trap or pin down. The Eagle's ability to Dash as a bonus action also helped make up for the lower base movement speed of a Small creature. Her damage output was slightly behind optimal, with only 14 strength, but she blew other barbarians away defensively.

Beside all that, Aggraga's defining trait was that, having been raised by an orcish barbarian tribe, she was a resourceful survivalist who MacGyvered her own pseudo-magical items out of spoils of battle, bits of the environment, and pieces of monsters. She collected a bunch of glowing mushrooms off a cave wall and stuck them on an antler headdress she'd taken off an evil druid to make a hands-free headlamp that cast dim violet light for 10 feet. She collected the tentacles of a roper the party killed to fashion a whip with 20 foot reach. She collected different animal hides to build a collection of bikinis including wolf fur, black dragon leather, and allosaurus trimmed with red dragon wyrmling scales.

I'd really love to play her again someday.

[Solunaris]

I gave the build a look over and I see one glaring flaw in it. Flametongue takes a bonus action to ignite the sword before it'll do any Fire damage. So unless you walk around with two flaming swords at all times you won't get to make a second attack in any given round with TWF until you've drawn and activated both blades. So turn 3 at the earliest; turn 4 if you Rage.

Since those early turns tend to be the most crucial might I suggest getting the cold version for the off-hand? It does one less die in damage but you'll come online a whole turn earlier for the TWF attack and the main hand (which will get twice as many attacks as the off hand) will still have the higher damage. That way you can draw and activate the Flametongue on turn one (taking your two attacks) and then draw the off-hand weapon the next round for the TWF attack.

Also, having both a Fire Sword and an Ice Sword is a cooler image for me than two Fire Swords imo.

[Spacehamster]

I gave the build a look over and I see one glaring flaw in it. Flametongue takes a bonus action to ignite the sword before it'll do any Fire damage. So unless you walk around with two flaming swords at all times you won't get to make a second attack in any given round with TWF until you've drawn and activated both blades. So turn 3 at the earliest; turn 4 if you Rage.

Since those early turns tend to be the most crucial might I suggest getting the cold version for the off-hand? It does one less die in damage but you'll come online a whole turn earlier for the TWF attack and the main hand (which will get twice as many attacks as the off hand) will still have the higher damage. That way you can draw and activate the Flametongue on turn one (taking your two attacks) and then draw the off-hand weapon the next round for the TWF attack.

Also, having both a Fire Sword and an Ice Sword is a cooler image for me than two Fire Swords imo.

Well when in enemy territory I will probably have them ignited all the time and there should be nothing that stops you from igniting both at once with the same bonus action since you hold them both and speak the same command word, thats how I would rule it at least.

[Arkhios]

Well when in enemy territory I will probably have them ignited all the time and there should be nothing that stops you from igniting both at once with the same bonus action since you hold them both and speak the same command word, thats how I would rule it at least.

If I were you, I would at the very least confirm that with your DM instead of making any assumptions on your own. Essentially I see nothing wrong in that, but it's always better to ask, not assume.

[Spacehamster]

If I were you, I would at the very least confirm that with your DM instead of making any assumptions on your own.

I am the DM most of the time and we usually go by my calls so should not be any problem. :) (And almost never have any stealth members in the party so having them ignited all the time would not be much of a hassle either)

[Arkhios]

I am the DM most of the time and we usually go by my calls so should not be any problem. :) (And almost never have any stealth members in the party so having them ignited all the time would not be much of a hassle either)

Still, it's common courtesy to let the DM decide, even if you were the DM most of the time otherwise.

[Solunaris]

Well when in enemy territory I will probably have them ignited all the time and there should be nothing that stops you from igniting both at once with the same bonus action since you hold them both and speak the same command word, thats how I would rule it at least.

Well, just be aware that you may not always know when a fight is imminent and if/when you are caught with your flames quenched you will have a painful start-up time. Also, if you want to use your hands in a fight for anything other than swinging your swords it'll be a bit of a pain because sheathing the sword or dropping it turns the fire off.

And if the DM allows you to ignite both at the same time then that is great. If it were my game they'd have different command words unless they were specifically crafted together by the same artisan for the purpose of being used together as a pair. Even then, I'd be hesitant to allow that since the sword is a substantial buff slightly counterbalanced by the action economy required to get it functional.

[Citan]

I've thought about this for a couple minutes, and I just can't figure out if there's supposed to be some sort of synergy between fell handed and sentinel. I know that sentinel reduces enemy speed to zero on an opportunity attack and fell handed has a chance to knock things prone if you're attacking with advantage, but because reckless attack only applies to attacks you make on your turn (and would thus not apply to sentinel opportunity attacks) I don't see what they really do for each other. Are you just recommending them because they're good individually?

It's also worth noting that the OP's build with the flame tongues is going to do dramatically better damage (as well as losing less of their offensive power if they lose their magic items), perhaps at the cost of crowd control, which this suggestion seems better at.
Well, you are right. There is no special synergy, apart from the fact it creates a very strong catch-22 for those enemies. So for someone who usually wants to keep enemies close to him, I think it's good.
I also liked the fact that you still deal damage even if you missed because of a disadvantage, but I was not thinking straight into OP's context: between high STR and Reckless Attack, he should usually attack at advantage, or at worst without it (RA canceling a source of disadvantage).

You are also totally right in saying that dual Flame Tongues will deal more damage, no argue about it. In your own turn that is.

But what would prevent OP to combine both? If enemies are resistant for fire, the bonus will be moot anyways, while the prone effect on hit will always be useful for him and whole party (and considering character stats it should happen more often than once).
So put in balance, on one side the additional 2d6 damage of the off-hand attack made with FlameTongue.
On the other side, the additional damage of every attack made by allies with advantage thanks to the prone, with one of the roll being a miss and the other being a hit.

That's all there is to it. Against a creature that is easy to hit anyways, Flametongue is better. Against any creature that is hard to hit, Axe with Fell Handed will be better. So any combination may be better than the others depending on party composition and how OP sees himself fighting, either as a loose cannon, a tank or something in-between.

Finally, as for the Belt creating a weakness: well, sure, you're right, but if you had carefully read my post, I didn't say otherwise. I suggested it because a) OP would start with it, so only risk is losing it, b) it can provide some interesting strings to pull or RP scenes with the DM and c) it could actually provide the perfect background as to why a Halfling, usually seen as an agile creature, is actually smashing skulls as good as would a regular Half-Orc. ;)

[Spacehamster]

Well, just be aware that you may not always know when a fight is imminent and if/when you are caught with your flames quenched you will have a painful start-up time. Also, if you want to use your hands in a fight for anything other than swinging your swords it'll be a bit of a pain because sheathing the sword or dropping it turns the fire off.

And if the DM allows you to ignite both at the same time then that is great. If it were my game they'd have different command words unless they were specifically crafted together by the same artisan for the purpose of being used together as a pair. Even then, I'd be hesitant to allow that since the sword is a substantial buff slightly counterbalanced by the action economy required to get it functional.

In light of all the comments I swapped dual wielder feat for GWM, swapped one of the flametounges for a ring of protection and twf style for defence, thatway he has a shot on bonus action attacks from GWM, 1 more AC and +1 on all saves compared to the older version.

[Arkhios]

In light of all the comments I swapped dual wielder feat for GWM, swapped one of the flametounges for a ring of protection and twf style for defence, thatway he has a shot on bonus action attacks from GWM, 1 more AC and +1 on all saves compared to the older version.

GWM + small race is slightly problematic because while small race can wield heavy weapons, they have disadvantage on attack rolls with them, and the GWM's -5 attack/+10 damage works only with heavy weapons.

That said, the bonus action is still usable with any melee weapon, so if you're fine with not being able to benefit from half of the feat for the most part, then go for it.

[Spacehamster]

GWM + small race is slightly problematic because while small race can wield heavy weapons, they have disadvantage on attack rolls with them, and the GWM's -5 attack/+10 damage works only with heavy weapons.

That said, the bonus action is still usable with any melee weapon, so if you're fine with not being able to benefit from half of the feat for the most part, then go for it.

Yeah very aware, just the bonus action attack from crits and killing I were after so. :)

[Wryte]

GWM + small race is slightly problematic because while small race can wield heavy weapons, they have disadvantage on attack rolls with them, and the GWM's -5 attack/+10 damage works only with heavy weapons.

That said, the bonus action is still usable with any melee weapon, so if you're fine with not being able to benefit from half of the feat for the most part, then go for it.

I really hate that rule, as it all but prohibits multiple races from playing a basic archetypal role. I house rule that heavy weapons have a minimum strength requirement according to their damage die to wield without disadvantage, instead: 11 for d8, 13 for d10, and 15 for d12/2d6. It still favors non-small races for heavy weapons, as every small race has bonuses in Dex instead of Str, but it doesn't totally lock them out.

[Spacehamster]

I really hate that rule, as it all but prohibits multiple races from playing a basic archetypal role. I house rule that heavy weapons have a minimum strength requirement according to their damage die to wield without disadvantage, instead: 11 for d8, 13 for d10, and 15 for d12/2d6. It still favors non-small races for heavy weapons, as every small race has bonuses in Dex instead of Str, but it doesn't totally lock them out.

Yeah its a **** rule with the whole small races have disadvantage when attacking with heavy weapons thing. :(

[sambojin]

Another way to do it is to make "small" heavy weapons. Just basically drop the damage die by one (so 2d6 becomes 2d4). Yeah, you lose two points of average damage, but if you're essentially crit fishing anyway, it might not be too bad for you.

Or you could drop the Champion idea all together and go Battlemaster for trip attack. The advantage will nullify the disadvantage. Plus, you can still prone large targets, which a small character can't do by shoving.

Or, you could do both (small heavy weapons + BM). Damage is damage, and advantage is a lot nicer than disadvantage, or even crit fishing, a lot of the time.

Plus, then you can bring a backup bow, for when raging ball of fury ISN'T the answer to a situation. Because, sometimes (rarely), it isn't. Sometimes you have to prone them out of the air and THEN dice them up finely on the ground.

[Arkhios]

Another way to do it is to make "small" heavy weapons. Just basically drop the damage die by one (so 2d6 becomes 2d4).

Actually, I kinda like the 3.X way of dropping damage die by "one" more than the assumed change from size in 5e. 2d6 is essentially same as 1d12, with only 0.5 more average damage. dropping 1d12 by one would make it 1d10 instead of 2d4 (2d4 is essentially same as 1d8, with -- again -- only 0.5 more average damage, so that would be a drop of two steps instead of one).

[sambojin]

Yeah. Run it by your DM. There's plenty of historical and even 5e game evidence (enlarge/reduce spell) that big and small weapons do have in-game stats.

In 5e's case, a small greatsword actually does 2d6-1d4 damage.

Seriously, if you're going to use that, bring an autoroller app on your phone to every session. Admittedly, that tends to average out to about 2d4 though. But "officially", that's what a small greatsword does in 5e. Large ones get +d4 damage.

[Arkhios]

In 5e's case, a small greatsword actually does 2d6-1d4 damage.

Seriously, if you're going to use that, bring an autoroller app on your phone to every session. Admittedly, that tends to average out to about 2d4 though. But "officially", that's what a small greatsword does in 5e.

That is exactly why I prefer 3.X way of increased/reduced damage die due to size to 5e equivalent. It's much more simple and you don't need an autoroller app.

The average of 2d6-1d4 is 5.5 ....which in itself, is exactly same as the average of 1d10. Frankly said, 5e way of doing this is just convoluted and stupid.

[sambojin]

Exactly.

I actually think that just sticking with the original concept but changing champion to BM is probably the best. You still get your bonus action attack, you tripping/shoving stuff is essentially crit fishing (two rolls, two chances for a natural 20, not too far from 19-20 crits), but you get all the extra features as well. While keeping flaming whirlwind of fury as the main focus. You can just do a bit of other stuff too.

It might not be "optimal" due to GWM being so good in comparison to nearly anything else, but I don't think you'll be unhappy with the build.

[Spacehamster]

Another way to do it is to make "small" heavy weapons. Just basically drop the damage die by one (so 2d6 becomes 2d4). Yeah, you lose two points of average damage, but if you're essentially crit fishing anyway, it might not be too bad for you.

Or you could drop the Champion idea all together and go Battlemaster for trip attack. The advantage will nullify the disadvantage. Plus, you can still prone large targets, which a small character can't do by shoving.

Or, you could do both (small heavy weapons + BM). Damage is damage, and advantage is a lot nicer than disadvantage, or even crit fishing, a lot of the time.

Plus, then you can bring a backup bow, for when raging ball of fury ISN'T the answer to a situation. Because, sometimes (rarely), it isn't. Sometimes you have to prone them out of the air and THEN dice them up finely on the ground.

Or simply make versatile d10 weapons count as heavy for small races, boom solved elegantly and simply. :)

[sambojin]

That's a good idea. There's lots of ways of doing this, but simple is good.