The sides of the law vs. chaos conflict

[Amdy_vill]

so law has modron(LN) devils(LE) and angles(LG). what does Chaos have. i know they have the Slaadi(CN) and Demons(CE) but what do they have in the good slot.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Eladrin. Core has a few, but most of the good ones are in BoED.

[Amdy_vill]

Eladrin. Core has a few, but most of the good ones are in BoED.

so these elves are the main stay of the CG outer-planer creature. thanks

[Gullintanni]

It's worth noting that of all these factions, only the Devils and Demons are actively at war with each other.

The good and neutral elements are more or less content to keep to themselves as long as the Blood War remains in Baator and the Abyss.

[Zaq]

so these elves are the main stay of the CG outer-planer creature. thanks

Eladrin didn’t turn into “hyper-elves” until 4e. In 3.x they’re very much full celestials. Many don’t particularly resemble elves at all. BoED has been already mentioned, but it is indeed the best source for a lot of them. I think there’s at least a couple in the weird “3.25” monster books (MM2/FF).

[DrMotives]

CG has a few other oddballs too, like the Lillend and the Asura. And while Modrons are the classic LN exemplar, 3e tries to switch it up to the Formians instead, most of which are in the FF, I think.

[Kelb_Panthera]

CG has a few other oddballs too, like the Lillend and the Asura. And while Modrons are the classic LN exemplar, 3e tries to switch it up to the Formians instead, most of which are in the FF, I think.

The manual of the planes web enhancement has the 3e data on modrons. It's still available on the WotC archives.

[DrMotives]

The manual of the planes web enhancement has the 3e data on modrons. It's still available on the WotC archives.

Oh I know. I have that one and bunch of others in a folder on my laptop, using "save as pdf" from the WotC site. It's easier than looking them up online everytime. I'm just saying they tried to push the Formians as a foremost exemplar race. Although, with so little variety in the MM compared to fiends and celestials, it seems pretty half-hearted.

I actually have an adventure idea on the backburner, involving an axial dragon breeding with a formian queen to make a xenomorph-like nest of Law-obsessed creatures. The axial dragon looks like it was inspired by HR Giger anyway. And I know it's called out in the text as the only planar dragon that doesn't make half-dragons, but come on. That's a ridiculous line that I fully plan to ignore.

[Dalmosh]

A lot of the actual combatants would have been genie-like races from the Inner Planes, and later on elementals marshalled by the Elemental Princes. The Vaati specifically seem to have been pretty essential to the side of Law.

[Feantar]

A correction to your original point. Angels are not lawful - they are "Always good(any)". They can be lawful but they are exemplars of good, not law, and they don't have ethical alignment subtypes (chaotic, lawful). If they belonged anywhere they would belong in the neutral good slot (with guardinals).

PS: Unless that wasn't a typo, and there's some exemplar group of lawful good angles out there.:smallbiggrin:

[sleepyphoenixx]

A correction to your original point. Angels are not lawful - they are "Always good(any)". They can be lawful but they are exemplars of good, not law, and they don't have ethical alignment subtypes (chaotic, lawful). If they belonged anywhere they would belong in the neutral good slot (with guardinals).

PS: Unless that wasn't a typo, and there's some exemplar group of lawful good angles out there.:smallbiggrin:

Archons are the LG celestials.

[Eldan]

CG has a few other oddballs too, like the Lillend and the Asura. And while Modrons are the classic LN exemplar, 3e tries to switch it up to the Formians instead, most of which are in the FF, I think.

Their actual history, however, is that they aren't even from Mechanus. Formians originally came from Arcadia and have only begun to invade Mechanus when one of the layers of Arcadia fell. That came up in the background of several Planescape adventures.
(It was a really stupid reason, too. The Harmonium tried to redeem evil individuals by basically stick them in prison camps on Arcadia. They didn't redeem a lot of people, but instead made a good chunk of Arcadia fall.)

The actual very first chaos war consisted mainly of the Obyrith on one side and the Vaati on the other.

Angels, unlike the other races mentioned, are not Exemplars and do not have a defined alignment, except good. They serve the gods, though, and various gods have at various times tried to meddle in the blood war and other law-chaos conflicts.

Edit: Angles sound like they should be related to Moignos and native to Mechanus.

[martixy]

The actual very first chaos war consisted mainly of the Obyrith on one side and the Vaati on the other.

I'm fairly familiar with planar history, but this is the first time I'm hearing of the Vaati. What the heck are they?
I know the Obyrith got steamrolled by the Eladrin at some point in (I think it was) one of Asmodeus' ploys to take over all lower planes.

[DrMotives]

I'm fairly familiar with planar history, but this is the first time I'm hearing of the Vaati. What the heck are they?
I know the Obyrith got steamrolled by the Eladrin at some point in (I think it was) one of Asmodeus' ploys to take over all lower planes.

Vaati are the Wind Dukes, creators of the classic artifact, the Rod of Seven Parts. I think there was a whole campaign based around it. They fought the Queen of Chaos and her consort, Mishka the Wolf-Spider.

[Inevitability]

I'm fairly familiar with planar history, but this is the first time I'm hearing of the Vaati. What the heck are they?
I know the Obyrith got steamrolled by the Eladrin at some point in (I think it was) one of Asmodeus' ploys to take over all lower planes.

They're mostly a 1st/2nd edition thing. In a very, very, very old law-chaos war (possibly the one where devils split off from celestials, possibly not), the Vaati were one of the more powerful races on the Lawful side. This war depopulated them to the point that barely a few remain today.

At this point in time, they're best known for creating the Rod of Seven Parts, which was used to slay the Queen of Chaos's (another of those super-powerful background characters, best known for creating Demogorgon) champion.

Interestingly enough, they weren't Lawful outsiders proper, but rather LN inhabitants of the Plane of Air.

[Amdy_vill]

A correction to your original point. Angels are not lawful - they are "Always good(any)". They can be lawful but they are exemplars of good, not law, and they don't have ethical alignment subtypes (chaotic, lawful). If they belonged anywhere they would belong in the neutral good slot (with guardinals).

PS: Unless that wasn't a typo, and there's some exemplar group of lawful good angles out there.:smallbiggrin:

thank you for this i will move them to the neutral faction.

[daremetoidareyo]

titans? they're chaotic outsiders