Wis/con Grave domain cleric seems pretty awesome, am I missing a catch?

[Tetrasodium]

It seems like you could do a great battle cleric type thing that doesn't bother with strength/dex beyond being able to carry stuff & cap out medium armor. with toll the dead (d8s/d12s wis save necrotic) & word of radiance(d6's but multitarget con save radiant) you have some real options for cantrip damage beyond just sacred flame (d8s dex save radiant). at level 8 grave cleric gets to add their wisdom mod to cleric cantrip damage too. With the right race pick you could even get some useful benefits like invis & such from firbolg to boot

is there some catch I should be concerned about that I'm missing?

[strangebloke]

It seems like you could do a great battle cleric type thing that doesn't bother with strength/dex beyond being able to carry stuff & cap out medium armor. with toll the dead (d8s/d12s wis save necrotic) & word of radiance(d6's but multitarget con save radiant) you have some real options for cantrip damage beyond just sacred flame (d8s dex save radiant). at level 8 grave cleric gets to add their wisdom mod to cleric cantrip damage too. With the right race pick you could even get some useful benefits like invis & such from firbolg to boot

is there some catch I should be concerned about that I'm missing?

Nothing any other cleric can't do. The pure WIS build is and has always been pretty strong for clerics.

[polymphus]

I mean, that's all pretty normal cleric stuff. Lots of clerics get +Wis to cantrips and your spell list is pretty underwhelming.

It's still solid, because cleric is a solid base, but it's pretty middle-of-the-road.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I mean, that's all pretty normal cleric stuff. Lots of clerics get +Wis to cantrips and your spell list is pretty underwhelming.

It's still solid, because cleric is a solid base, but it's pretty middle-of-the-road.
Pretty much. Toll the Dead is a great cantrip, but it's not really linked to Grave beyond thematically. Death domain is pretty nasty with Toll the Dead, since you can blast two guys at once, but Grave is... eh? Your best bet for a cantrip Cleric is probably Arcana for the expanded options. Or Nature Cleric, letting you nab Shillelagh to rock Wis-based melee. Or better yet, Arcana Cleric with Magic Initiate (Druid) + Booming/Green-Flame Blade; that gives you, at 8th level 2d8+2*Wis melee damage, plus riders.

[jaappleton]

Grave is tricky in that the biggest thing it has going for it is the Channel Divinity, but it requires synergy with the party.

Like...

1. Any spellcaster casting Hold Person or a Monk using Stunning Strike (Or anyone doing anything to force a creature to auto-fail a Dex save)

2. Grave uses Channel Divinity on that creature

3. Someone else casts Disintegrate

What’s that do again, something like 8d8 + 40 Force damage? I likely got the dice wrong, but now it’s doubled via Grave, so that 40 Force damage becomes 80 plus those dice are doubled.

Or... and this one is really hard to pull off. But it’s AWESOME if it works.

Someone builds the following PC, it’s best for a lv20 one shot (Like ‘Let’s try to kill ______’ one shots)

Assassin 3 / Tempest 2 / Sorcerer 17
Chromatic Orb, lv9
Twinned
Against a surprised target
That somehow has been hit with Grave’s CD
(How you’ll surprise a target that’s been hit with CD is on you, work with me here!)

That’s 11d8 Of almost any damage type. Doubled via Assassin, since that’s not restricted to weapon attacks. So 22d8, maximized via Tempest. And it was another Cleric’s CD for Grave, so that’s 176 Thunder or Lightning damage. And the target is vulnerable, so that’s 352 damage.

And that’s not a Saving Throw. Legendary Resistance can piss off in this instance.


TL;DR
Grave rules but it’s Channel Divinity makes it a Support character. If you’re cool making everyone else around you that much better through teamwork, it’s utterly amazing. If you don’t work as a team, it’ll be wasted potential.

[Strangways]

Grave is pretty awesome, but more for defensive abilities than for the reasons you cite. Max healing on people at zero HP and the ability to “uncrit” (convert crits into non-crits) is very strong. The stuff you cite is good, but lots of clerics can do that. Cleric is just a very solid class overall.

[Citan]

Pretty much. Toll the Dead is a great cantrip, but it's not really linked to Grave beyond thematically. Death domain is pretty nasty with Toll the Dead, since you can blast two guys at once, but Grave is... eh? Your best bet for a cantrip Cleric is probably Arcana for the expanded options. Or Nature Cleric, letting you nab Shillelagh to rock Wis-based melee. Or better yet, Arcana Cleric with Magic Initiate (Druid) + Booming/Green-Flame Blade; that gives you, at 8th level 2d8+2*Wis melee damage, plus riders.


Grave is pretty awesome, but more for defensive abilities than for the reasons you cite. Max healing on people at zero HP and the ability to “uncrit” (convert crits into non-crits) is very strong. The stuff you cite is good, but lots of clerics can do that. Cleric is just a very solid class overall.
Pretty much this is my opinion too. :)

I you like the domain, go for it, you won't regret it, and you will be a great asset to the party because any Cleric can be considered as such (well, unless you actively try to be incompetent of course ;)).

As for me, I understand its strengths (especially multiclassed with 2 levels of Necromancer Wizard for a melee Vampiric Touch build, or as a "big dig" for a Sorcerer specializing in necrotic spells such as Bestow Curse or Finger of Death), but as a pure-class it's just not my cup of tea. For example, provided I reach that nice 17th level, I'd have trouble knowing how and when to use the ability for maximum profit. And honestly it seems to me a bit underwhelming for a 17th level (it's great to spare a good chunk of HP over a day, but will rarely make a difference in tough fights of that level). ;)

[ShikomeKidoMi]

As some others have said, Grave's Wisdom to damage is something several other Cleric domains get. It's a good ability, but not where Grave excels. Where it shines is in it's ability to keep other party members from dying and in its ability to synergize it's Channel Divinity effect if you have party member(s) with heavy damage single attacks. Paladins and Rogues are good for this, some Wizards can be as well.

A pure Wisdom build for Grave is usually worthwhile, though.