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View Full Version : DM Help How much should I reveal about the lone resident of a planet sized prison?



MonkeySage
2018-02-02, 07:40 PM
My players have landed on a planet that was home to an ancient colony. They're following a team of humans, who earlier landed on the planet and haven't been heard from in a few weeks.
The humans found the ruins of this ancient colony and, foolishly, restored full power to it. This was after getting past killer security robots and traps. They then decided to reopen a valve that the ancient colonists seemed to put a great deal of effort into keeping closed.

Whatever was locked up inside the planet, it appears to be gone now.

Mike Miller
2018-02-02, 10:01 PM
How did you plan on revealing the information about the lone resident? What role did you intend for the lone resident? Is this main plot, optional plot, or transitional plot?

MonkeySage
2018-02-03, 01:14 AM
It's basically an amoral destructive force that believes that the creation of life was a mistake. It aims to correct that mistake by acting as a corrupter, or a puppet master. My players will find out about it via apocalyptic log- a prison terminal which tells them that the currently open vault door once kept something dangerous locked inside.

As for plot importance- it's sort of the big bad. Currently, its possessing a scientist- the only survivor from the original team of humans who came here and discovered ruins.

That scientist is already placed in a suspicious position, though. He very likely was the one who murdered at least three of his crew members, and abducted the captain.

Steel Mirror
2018-02-03, 07:14 PM
I think you should reveal as much as you reasonably can about the BBEG, as soon as you can. Basically, if you are on the fence about revealing a particular nugget of info even a little bit, opt for revelation instead of keeping it hidden in the hopes of making things mysterious.

A lot of GMs make the mistake (IMHO of course) of playing with their world-building cards too close to the vest, thinking that a lack of information will make things more intriguing or make a planned eventual Big Reveal more dramatic. In practice, what usually happens is that players won't even realize that there are secrets to be found out, or will assume that if they can't find information on a subject it probably isn't important, and they will move on to another subject like a flock of ADD pigeons. Likely they will find some obscure corner of your world which you have no background information on or future plans for, and somehow become convinced that it is of dire importance, and fixate on it even after you tell them that the main plot is in the other direction.

I can't really give a more exact answer than that without knowing more about the scenario, but just find a bunch of ways to reveal as much info as possible to your characters. Use the apocalyptic log. Have the possessed scientist himself be a font of information about the entity, after all he is quite the expert, and sharing data about the imprisoned creature will throw some suspicion off him as being possessed if the players think he is sharing priveleged info. Be generous with handing out clues as the result of skill checks. Show the aftermath of the struggle to contain the being in the ruins of the previous colony. Have the entire area around the prison be covered in brightly colored warnings telling people that, no, it's a really bad idea to open this, no seriously stop it, this will end all life in the universe, why are you still even walking by these signs.

Honestly, even then I've played with plenty of groups that wouldn't have gotten or taken the hint. But at least they won't be able to say they weren't warned XD.

Nifft
2018-02-03, 07:45 PM
While the BBEG was imprisoned, it entertained itself by creating art.

The message of the art should be fairly easy to figure out.

Pick an art form that you're good at as an example.

Wasteomana
2018-02-04, 10:23 PM
Steel Mirror gives excellent advice. I'd second basically everything they said.

I'd also be really hesitant to use the 'is crazy unexplainable irrational evil' thing as it tends to be one dimensional, boring and not lead to people attempting to understand any of the cool secrets or Easter eggs you set up for the PCs. A great villain has a purpose and finds a way to justify their purpose. A great DM gives a great villain the setup needed to get the PCs to doubt themselves and see things from the villain's point of view (IMNSHO).

I am running a campaign where the BBEG for most of the beginning of the campaign (read: First 3 real life years) was trapped in a box for tens of thousands of years. He was driven a bit loopy, but also was a powerful psionic force. Once he got out, job 1 was making sure he was never trapped ever ever again. He had a lot of time to think about not getting trapped again and went to extreme lengths to make sure nothing could put him in a corner ever again. Then, and sometimes also, he thought of revenge. The best way to spread himself so he was never trapped again was to break parts of himself into pieces and spread them around. The best way to get his revenge was to use his power and knowledge as a devil's bargain type deal to aid people pursuing their wishes to become stronger with the understanding that, when the time came, they would help him strike back at those that imprisoned him.

The PCs frequently found themselves agreeing with the villain, sometimes working with him, sometimes against. When the people who put the villain in a box come calling, they even use the villain to help them at a critical moment knowing they can rely on his need to get revenge.

He ended up being my favorite bad guy that I've ever used in any game bar none and I think a huge part of that was putting myself in his shoes and going "what is the best way to achieve my goal", "How does this character see himself as the good guy afterall" and then run with it.

MonkeySage
2018-02-04, 11:36 PM
Well, the big thing I wanted to emphasize is that this entity is very alien- it isn't evil, per se, as it has no concept of good and evil. It has no interest in suffering, it sees mortal life as annoying little insects. The reason it wants to end mortal life is that it believes it can regain its own divine power by doing so. In its current form, it was weak enough to be pinned down, and imprisoned. Under the right circumstances, it could potentially be killed. But, it used to be a true immortal, a nigh omnipotent deity. It was stripped of its divine status by the other deities in this setting, when it expressed disdain for mortal life.

That is why instead of manifesting physically once it was set free, it chose to possess the nearest mortal vessel- and actually, by doing so, it's sacrificed much of the strength it had. It willingly weakened itself so that it would have the time to regain its bearings.

The people who ultimately locked it up 4000 years ago had no idea that it was once a god- they didn't really know a whole lot about it, beyond the fact that it was clever, powerful, and bent on ending all life. They didn't even know its name- they had to make one up. They specifically chose a backwoods planet, and spent a fortune turning that planet into a near perfect prison over the course of several decades.

Wasteomana
2018-02-05, 12:00 AM
So I'm gonna break this down from the perspective of 'we are designing a game/campaign'.


Well, the big thing I wanted to emphasize is that this entity is very alien- it isn't evil, per se, as it has no concept of good and evil.
How are you going to use this concept to make your campaign interesting? Do you have specific things that show the alien 'otherness' to your PCs and do they have a meaningful way to interact with it?


It has no interest in suffering, it sees mortal life as annoying little insects. The reason it wants to end mortal life is that it believes it can regain its own divine power by doing so. In its current form, it was weak enough to be pinned down, and imprisoned. Under the right circumstances, it could potentially be killed. But, it used to be a true immortal, a nigh omnipotent deity. It was stripped of its divine status by the other deities in this setting, when it expressed disdain for mortal life.

Again, same answer. Do the players have a reasonable way to learn this? Are you setting the campaign up in such a way that the players will have access to this information? If they have no way to know, none of this matters. This is good information, but the PCs have to know it. Holding any of these cards to your chest is going to double down on the non-interactivity of this element.


That is why instead of manifesting physically once it was set free, it chose to possess the nearest mortal vessel- and actually, by doing so, it's sacrificed much of the strength it had. It willingly weakened itself so that it would have the time to regain its bearings.

See this is something you could use to play around with. If the creature knows that it is weak and needs to bide its time, what is it doing to make that possible? How long does it think it needs? What are its plans going forward and how will those plans be shown to your players? If the players can put a wrench in things, do they have a reason not to do so? If not, why not?

One of the big things here is player agency. Basically that boils down to making a choice matter. If it is an evil alien, unknowable thing that wants to destroy all life then there is never any ambiguity over what to do with it. An enemy to all things is boring, even Vader had redeeming qualities and those qualities are what made him an interesting character and good bad guy.


The people who ultimately locked it up 4000 years ago had no idea that it was once a god- they didn't really know a whole lot about it, beyond the fact that it was clever, powerful, and bent on ending all life. They didn't even know its name- they had to make one up. They specifically chose a backwoods planet, and spent a fortune turning that planet into a near perfect prison over the course of several decades.

This sounds like a part where you are willing/able/prepared to tell the players this, but also the lack of having any redeeming qualities makes it all so much more boring than it could be. If it was completely alien, maybe it doesn't even understand what it is doing is harmful (like a 4D creature interacting in a 3D world). Maybe some of the papers or documents could show a purpose for the creature or hypothesize on one. Maybe Faction A wanted to use it against Faction B.

What I'm trying to say is that the more facets you put into this thing the better it is going to be and the more angles you have to display this entity to your PCs. If its ONLY facet is "unreasoning absolute evil", why should the PCs care about any of the details? None of the details change their approach, nothing happens when they learn more and so there is no reason to try to invest more energy. You might have PCs that are naturally curious, but if they keep getting the same answer every time they dig back a layer you are giving them a huge disincentive to investigate.

MonkeySage
2018-02-05, 01:54 AM
I was taking entirely the wrong approach by thinking of this character as an entity that just wanted to destroy life. I just figured it out and the answer was right there: It's a god. Whether it actually wanted this or not, it brought the galaxy to the brink just by being present. perhaps i can use it to represent the dangers of fanaticism? perhaps rather than being possessed, the scientist has acted of his own accord.
How could I make that work, though?

Wasteomana
2018-02-05, 03:07 AM
I was taking entirely the wrong approach by thinking of this character as an entity that just wanted to destroy life. I just figured it out and the answer was right there: It's a god. Whether it actually wanted this or not, it brought the galaxy to the brink just by being present. perhaps i can use it to represent the dangers of fanaticism? perhaps rather than being possessed, the scientist has acted of his own accord.
How could I make that work, though?

See my previous post about making this interesting for your players. Think about what would be a way to make the god something that players might side with or sympathize with and go from there.

Does the Entity have the ability to reason? Does it hate its nature, but the very divinity that makes it powerful also drives it to do the things it does? What drove it to the farthest reaches of fanaticism in the past? Is that something you can use and would the players understand/sympathize with it? Can you mirror the path the heroes are taking with the path the entity took as it fell from grace or devolved into fanaticism? Does it know if it ever regains power or prominence that it will bring the universe back to the brink? If it knows, does it still want to? If it doesn't want to, what stops it from killing itself? Maybe the entity thinks that the domain it represents will always exist, that a new God of Endings will always come in time but it is better that it be the creature with the power because it can fight the desire to use that power to end everything.

The more real you make this entity and the more nuance and perspective you give it the better the story will be. The more angles you have to show your players. I'm trying not to say "just do this" beyond saying "think about it and make it interesting".

KillianHawkeye
2018-02-09, 09:54 AM
It's a god. Whether it actually wanted this or not, it brought the galaxy to the brink just by being present. perhaps i can use it to represent the dangers of fanaticism? perhaps rather than being possessed, the scientist has acted of his own accord.
How could I make that work, though?

Here's a thought: The scientist has some great potential to sort of be the true villain of the adventure.

No matter how much the original imprisoners wanted to keep this prison secret, some records of the place must exist (even after thousands of years). Rumors of a powerful force like that may have led to the creation of a cult or secret society devoted to bringing it back (similar to the reveal a couple seasons ago on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. that Hydra was originally founded to bring back the original Inhuman who was trapped in space because it was immortal). Alternatively, maybe the scientist just pieced things together on his own from some recent archaeological discoveries.

So now you can say that the scientist (or some group he is a part of) was responsible for people being on this planet. You can give him some really human reasons for wanting to release this fallen god, too. Like maybe he doubts or doesn't know its true nature and think he can use its power to bring back his dead family or something. Or some other motivation that your players could relate to.

Now, was the first team specifically sent to find this ancient colony, and if so did they know about the fallen god? Or were people just exploring and stumbled into it? Perhaps the previous team was not the first team to come to this planet? It could have been colonized recently before the ruins were discovered, or maybe there was just a simple survey team who came by and took note of some interesting ruins without trying to open them up. Either way, that's enough for your scientist guy to get wind of it and organize a mission to study the ruins in order to satisfy his secret goal of releasing the entity.

So now you have this two-part villain. On one hand, the scientist may be responsible for several deaths in his quest to release the fallen god. He might have pushed himself to the breaking point because of grief or some other strong emotion, and things got out of hand. Or maybe the deaths only began after the scientist was possessed, and the scientist got way more than he bargained for when the entity was released. Perhaps he is a victim of his own arrogance and hubris. On the other hand, an entity that wants to destroy all mortal life, but needs a receptive host to hide out in for a while. A dark spirit who is a real danger to life in the galaxy, or will be once he's had time to collect himself.

An interesting twist could be if the scientist regrets what he's done now that he sees the creature for what it really is, but now he's stuck in a bad situation because of the entity possessing him. But what if the possession goes both ways? What if the scientist can also exert some influence on the entity? Maybe it is less of a possession and more of a fusion of the two? There are a lot of different ways you could go with this kind of idea.

denthor
2018-02-09, 02:05 PM
I 2nd over welling information. We are currently attempting to unravel a 1,000 year mystery. Nobody cares the DM is pushing it. All we have is Black Bart a legendary thief. No other information is available.

We are currently being eaten by dragons for not knowing the answers. Guess what time to end the campaign. If you as a DM get off on hard unsolvable problems and do give ready easy clues to solve them I mean big glowing 550 foot tall neon signs that can be seen from the other side of your game world. I do not care.

Let's go kill something weaker roll dice.