fiendish vigor question

[Lance Tankmen]

i used search but found no threads to answer my question.


The invocation says
"You can cast False Life on yourself at will as a 1st-level spell, without expending a spell slot or material components"


with this he gets False life for free and it doesn't count towards his spells known but he cant cast it at a higher level ? or he must pick it as one of his spells known?

[Sigreid]

For free. Doesn't cost a spell known. I don't believe it can be upcast using one of your warlock spell slots. Is a horrible, horrible waste of an invocation.

[Tanarii]

Is a horrible, horrible waste of an invocation.
That's crazy. 8 extra hps going into every single battle that has a minute or more before it is 40-48 hps in a typical adventuring day. For a typical second level Warlock that's a 50% boost in hps starting every single battle, and a 200%+ boost in total hit points available across the adventuring day from base+HD. It's a fantastic early invocation, which can easily be swapped out when it starts to lose its luster as you gain enough levels.

[Lance Tankmen]

okay ty, i dont think its a waste. hes level 2, i make players roll for hp . hes at 22hp so he can have 27 to 30 hp at level two. hes hexblade so he'll get hit sometimes

[Tanarii]

hes at 22hp so he can have 27 to 30 hp at level two. s
It's at will, so he can keep casting it until he gets 8 temp HPs. Unless he only has a single round to act. Which isn't typical if you're precasting it long before combat starts.

[Lance Tankmen]

eh id give him two attempts if the party is in a hurry to enter a building or room

[Tanarii]

eh id give him two attempts if the party is in a hurry to enter a building or room
Why wouldn't he just cast it at the end of the previous combat? It lasts an hour.

There's very few situations in which it's unreasonable for the Warlock to take a minute to cast it 10 times at some point in the hour prior to combat, and for them to do that once an hour. If repeated casting bother you, just consider it a one minute casting time in that situation. Unlike casting Guidance once a minute, it's hardly abuse.

[Xetheral]

Because the spell includes a die roll, some might consider it contrary to RAI to immediately cast it again just to be able to reroll.

[Malifice]

For free. Doesn't cost a spell known. I don't believe it can be upcast using one of your warlock spell slots. Is a horrible, horrible waste of an invocation.

It's an extremely strong invocation at low levels.

You are guaranteed to have an extra 8 hit points going into every battle. Even on an adventuring day featuring only five encounters, that's an extra 40 hits points per day. That is a lot of oomph in tier one play.

It runs out of steam pretty rapidly and is generally swapped out at around fifth level when better invocations come online.

[Malifice]

Because the spell includes a die roll, some might consider it contrary to RAI to immediately cast it again just to be able to reroll.

The rules are clear that when you obtain a source of temporary hit points you can choose to either keep the ones you already have or gain the new ones.

If you were casting false life normally and were unhappy with the result you could expend another spell slot to roll again if you wanted to.

The invocation is no different.

[Alderic78]

Great at lvl 2 when those 17 hit points become 25 and now you jave more than the fighter. Can easily be replaced for mage armor, or s enother sweet invocation... but I've found out it still helps at lvl 7.

And yes... one hour duration and free casting basically means 8 temp hp every time you start an encounter .

[Waazraath]

From what I've seen in play, it's a great invocation at low levels. As for the OP, no, you don't need to use a 'spell known' for it, it's at will, and you can't cast it from your spell slots (so you can't upcast it).

[Tanarii]

Because the spell includes a die roll, some might consider it contrary to RAI to immediately cast it again just to be able to reroll.I'm fairly sure most people won't have any problems with recasting until you get max HPs being the RAI for an at-will spell cast out of combat, when temp HPs explicitly overwrite the old value if they're better. But some are always trying to ice skate uphill. But do what you like or makes you happy, and all that jazz.

It's worth noting any caster could theoretically do the same thing. There's just the small matter of it costing a spell slot to do it that way. :smallamused:

[Vogie]

It's brilliant for an early-level warlock, specifically a bladelock, if your patron isn't Fiend or Celestial. You start the encounters with extra HP, you can use a "wasted" action while running between targets to reapply it during a fight.

[Mikal]

Have to echo the others in that it's a great low level invocation, but it loses its effectiveness in later levels.
Which is why when you hit said levels you trade it for something better.

[Daithi]

For those mentioning it is great at low levels, which invocations do you take? You only get 2 invocations from 2nd to 4th level, so Agonizing Blast and Fiendish Vigor?

I take it that Armor of Shadows isn't taken at all? Devil's Sight and Mask of Many Faces would have to wait until 5th level or later (or never). Eldritch Spear is another one I like. Something else you prefer? Which 2 do y'all recommend starting with?

[User_Undefined]

My human warlock took Devil's Sight and Fiendish Vigor as his first two invocations. Now at level 14, he has Devil's Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper, Maddening Hex, Otherworldly Leap (which works great with his Gauntlets of Ogre Strength), Lifedrinker, and a homebrew invocation that lets you pick a fighting style (I chose Mariner and both the climb speed and the swim speed have been useful).

[Mikal]

For those mentioning it is great at low levels, which invocations do you take? You only get 2 invocations from 2nd to 4th level, so Agonizing Blast and Fiendish Vigor?

I take it that Armor of Shadows isn't taken at all? Devil's Sight and Mask of Many Faces would have to wait until 5th level or later (or never). Eldritch Spear is another one I like. Something else you prefer? Which 2 do y'all recommend starting with?

Depends on what I'm doing.
If Blastlock, generally Agonizing Blast and either Devil's Sight, Repelling Blast or Eldritch Spear.
If Hexblade or Bladelock in general, Devil's Sight and Fiendish Vigor. I'll swap Vigor at level 5 for Thirsting Blade.
If Tomelock, I'll go Agonizing Blast and Book of Ancient Secrets.
I've not done a Chain so nothing there.

Mask of Many Faces is campaign specific and part composition specific, so I don't consider that a must have.
I can get at least light armor as a Warlock, so taking Armor of Shadows doesn't really do much for me.

[ad_hoc]

Great at lvl 2 when those 17 hit points become 25 and now you jave more than the fighter. Can easily be replaced for mage armor, or s enother sweet invocation... but I've found out it still helps at lvl 7.

And yes... one hour duration and free casting basically means 8 temp hp every time you start an encounter .

Mage Armour is a waste of an invocation.

False Life is best before level 5 but unless there is another source of temp. HP will still be better than Mage Armour after level 5.

+1 AC is never worth an invocation.

[Alderic78]

Mage Armor would be 2 AC for my warlock... don't expect to find a studded leather in CoS =_=
Still... 16 AC is not going to save you... I'll see @8th.

First invocations were of course agonizing and vigor, later I got the tome, repelling was the latest addition.

[ad_hoc]

Mage Armor would be 2 AC for my warlock... don't expect to find a studded leather in CoS =_=
Still... 16 AC is not going to save you... I'll see @8th.

First invocations were of course agonizing and vigor, later I got the tome, repelling was the latest addition.

While there are no armour merchants there is studded leather around. It is probably the most common armour (that or regular leather) to be found.

A number of NPCs wear it and it can probably be acquired through a number of potential allies.

[Tanarii]

For those mentioning it is great at low levels, which invocations do you take? You only get 2 invocations from 2nd to 4th level, so Agonizing Blast and Fiendish Vigor?
Depends entirely on what I'd be going to do with the warlock. Being an Agonizing Glass-jawalock is all well and good in the white room. But in a small low-level party in terrain where the enemy can get to you easily, but super long range combat isn't likely, that's as good as a death sentence.

In narrow dungeon tunnels with enough people, it's no problem at all. The -2 to hit for your allies providing the enemies with cover is balanced by them keeping you alive, and the bonus damage from Agonizing balances that out. But even then it can take a lot of people to be enough people. IMX the absolute most common Pcs to go down for keeps in Tier 1, even in six member parties in dungeons, are Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks.

Alternatively, if it's particularly open terrain and you expect to usually have a speed advantage, Agonizing plus the range extending invocation is a good kiting option. If I was going to run a mongol-analogue shaman who dealt with evil spirits on the regular, I'd certainly be tempted to make a Warlock like that.

[ad_hoc]

For those mentioning it is great at low levels, which invocations do you take? You only get 2 invocations from 2nd to 4th level, so Agonizing Blast and Fiendish Vigor?

I take it that Armor of Shadows isn't taken at all? Devil's Sight and Mask of Many Faces would have to wait until 5th level or later (or never). Eldritch Spear is another one I like. Something else you prefer? Which 2 do y'all recommend starting with?

I actually wouldn't take Agonizing Blast until 5th level.

I would rather have something like Misty Visions. At will Silent Image can be a game changer.

Agonizing Blast becomes a lot better with a 2nd attack and a higher Charisma that comes at levels 4 and 5.

At levels 1-4 I'm most partial to Fiendish Vigour, Misty Visions, and Book of Secrets (so pick 2). At level 5 trade out Vigour for Agonizing Blast and take a 5th level invocation for the 3rd one.