[SWSE] New to the Game, Need Help With a Build

[silvertree]

Hey All,

My group is starting a Star Wars Saga Edition game in two weeks, so I'm rolling up a character. My main game is 5e at the moment, and I've played plenty of 3.x back in the day, but this is my first SWSE game.

The other players in my group were pretty quick to decide what they wanted to play, so I'm leaning in the direction of a role that didn't seem to be sought after: the Tank. From what I can tell, the Armor Specialist Talent Tree is where I'll be living mostly. There is a talent in the Commando Tree I'd like to emphasize early, however. And that's where I'd like some help. It's Draw Fire.

To be good at it, I need to boost my Persuasion skill - which isn't a class skill. So, I'm thinking of starting with a level of Noble to get Persuasion, playing as a Pau'an to get Skill Focus (Persuasion) for free, and then going Soldier the rest of the way.

Does that sound viable? What other synergies should I look for? We'll probably be starting at level 5. I don't know what equipment we'll have access to yet.

[Pleh]

Point of order: SWSA usually gets posted to the AD&D/Other subforum rather than the d20 subforum.

[emeraldstreak]

The other players in my group were pretty quick to decide what they wanted to play, so I'm leaning in the direction of a role that didn't seem to be sought after: the Tank. From what I can tell, the Armor Specialist Talent Tree is where I'll be living mostly. There is a talent in the Commando Tree I'd like to emphasize early, however. And that's where I'd like some help. It's Draw Fire.

To be good at it, I need to boost my Persuasion skill - which isn't a class skill. So, I'm thinking of starting with a level of Noble to get Persuasion, playing as a Pau'an to get Skill Focus (Persuasion) for free, and then going Soldier the rest of the way.

Does that sound viable? What other synergies should I look for? We'll probably be starting at level 5. I don't know what equipment we'll have access to yet.

Level 5? You might look into the Mandalorian builds for my Old Republic play-by-post game; they were all pretty scary heavy armor users whether ranged or melee. Their officers in particular used Draw Fire, for example the one wearing purple armor in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19906992&postcount=611)

[silvertree]

Level 5? You might look into the Mandalorian builds for my Old Republic play-by-post game; they were all pretty scary heavy armor users whether ranged or melee. Their officers in particular used Draw Fire, for example the one wearing purple armor in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19906992&postcount=611)

Mandalorian via Elite Trooper looks like it's right up my alley, thanks! That gives me a more directed search for sure. I wasn't able to find a specific build in the thread you linked, however. I confess I did not read all 809 posts.

[emeraldstreak]

Mandalorian via Elite Trooper looks like it's right up my alley, thanks! That gives me a more directed search for sure. I wasn't able to find a specific build in the thread you linked, however. I confess I did not read all 809 posts.

Hahaha, no, that was just a preview to see if it's the right style for your game. I'll dig up my notes and send you the actual builds soonish.

[emeraldstreak]

I've DMed SWSE a fair amount, and my advice for non-Force games is to incorporate all the equipment-tinkering rules into your campaign. Force users have a lot to deal with all the powers, saber attacks, styles, and whatnot; while non-Force users really benefit from the depth equipment can offer.

Now, back to Mandalorians. They come roughly in two tiers, one at levels 4-5, one at levels ~10 who enter Prestige Classes.

The first tier features three roles: a melee brute who works best with two more of his kind; a ranged soldier armed with a weapon capable of devastating area attacks (several fit the bill, we'll review one of the more cinematic); and the Mandalorian NCO whose goal is to draw fire and boost the ranged soldiers he leads.

The Brute
Armor color: Red (colors have significance in Mandalorian culture)



Attributes 20 14 14 12 10 8
Levels in order of taking: soldier 1, soldier 2, soldier 3, scout 1, soldier 4

Talents: Squad Superiority, Melee Assault, Prudent Escape
Feats (from class, level, and Human): starting ones for Soldier, Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Proficiency:Advanced, Follow Through, Great Cleave

Weapon: cortosis power hammer (superior accuracy&enhanced energy projector) att +11 dmg 2d12+12
Armor: mandalorian battle armor 25 lb (reinforced armor; armorplast, powered exoskeleton, climbing claws, internal generator, shockweb, repulsorlift) +1 Fortitude

Hit points 61
Fortitude 21 Reflex 23/21 Will 15

Brutes in action 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19956127&postcount=697) 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19956022&postcount=696)
Tactics: these Mandalorians use the Scout talent and Follow Through to be constantly on the move. When ganging up they flat-foot opponents, knockdown&add even more dice to their already high damage.
Adaptation to other campaigns: as the key is to have a small squad, the concept is best adapted when a friend or two are also up for melee builds, or a Player character can have a couple of melee NPCs under command. Nevertheless, elements of the build are universal, be it using shockweb to brush off weak enemies in melee, or granting extra mobility to your allies.


The Phalanx
Armor color: Green



Attributes 14 18 14 12 10 8, backgrounds Stealth+Deception
Level order: soldier 1, scout 1, scout 2, soldier 2

Talents: Indomitable, Evasion
Feats: starting for Soldier, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus:Rifles, Shake It Off, Return Fire, Recurring Success:Return Fire, Combat Reflexes

Weapon: mandalorian blaster rifle, heavy assault 7 lb (superior damage; improved energy cell) +6 3d10+8 auto clip 100, A, I
Armor: mandalorian battle armor 20 lb (superior agile armor; armorplast, rangefinder, climbing claws, internal generator, weapon mount, shockweb, integrated equipment:binoculars) +1 Fortitude

Hit Points 53
Fortitude 21 Reflex 22/18 Will 14

Light Phalanx in action (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19909967&postcount=621), aided by their commander
Tactics: whether Light or the higher level Ghost, the Phalanx is about superior mobility, stealth, and firepower. With Return Fire and Recurring Success for it (and Combat Reflexes), they excel at retaliation.
Adaptation: even on its own, this is an OK build for a ranged character. Having the support of an Officer-type (see below) makes it even better. While Mandalorians face large enemy formations and so favor automatic fire or specialized shotguns and the like for the area attacks, the build also works with single target range weapons for, say, the less numerous encounters against crime underworld enforcers.


The Commander
Armor color:Purple



Attributes: as the Player sees fit
Level order: Soldier 1, Noble 1, Noble 2, Noble 3

Talents: Shield Expert, Cast Suspicion, Stolen Advantage
Feats: Soldier starting, Fortifying Recovery, Linguist, Stand Tall, Recurring Success: Stand Tall

Weapon: as the Player sees fit
Armor: mandalorian battle armor 21 lb (reinforced armor; armorplast, SR 20, climbing claws, internal generator, shockweb, integrated equipment:binoculars, repulsorlift) +1 Fortitude

Hit Points and Defenses: Depending on Attributes

NCO in action: see Phalanx example above as it is meant to support allies
Tactics: The NCO brings a few trump cards to the battlefield. With Cast Suspicion/Stolen Advantage it disables and turns around one of the best tricks of numerous weaker enemies against them. With Stand Tall and Recurring Success for it, he boosts the firepower of allies. With Shield Expert, Fortifying Recovery, and his armor shield, the NCO can reliably bait enemy fire and survive it (this level four build didn't have Draw Fire itself, but it's one way of further advancement).
Adaptation: That's a solid combat support chassis, not to mention it has a lot of free room for high social/skillmonkey Attributes. A note on shields, the integrated power armor is one possiblity; KotoR also has lighter personalized versions.

Next, I'll get around to post some of the higher (10-ish) level builds. The Mandalorian Sniper is a must-see for sniper builds, the Heavy Vanguard specializes in destroying enemy combat vehicles, and I might mention the Ghost Phalanx (line troops even better than the light Phalanx) and some long-distance support specialists.

[weckar]

IS it a non-Force game, though? Because Woo boy do Force users outclass anyone else by that level already.

[emeraldstreak]

IS it a non-Force game, though? Because Woo boy do Force users outclass anyone else by that level already.

They don't.

[emeraldstreak]

I've DMed the Mandalorian Wars campaign a few times, strictly for Jedi-only PC parties (Jedi-only is part of the overarching campaign story), and the Mandalorians are always a major challenge.

In-game example of a single turn of three Brutes v three Jedi:
1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20004320&postcount=736)
2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20004343&postcount=737)
3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20004367&postcount=738)
4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20004399&postcount=739)
5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20004430&postcount=740)

[weckar]

A Telekineticist Force User spec (which, by the way, is all about positioning and cannot really properly be captured in PbP) would wipe the floor hard.

[silvertree]

Thanks Emerald - this is great stuff! I appreciate the different flavors for sure.

One player has already indicated their interest in being a sniper, so I want to avoid stepping on her toes. Another player indicated an interest in being a diplomat of sorts, and the GM suggested noble for him, making him likely to be our face/commander type.

So, I still plan on being the heavily armored tanky type, but trying to avoid stealing their thunder. Our GM has let us know we'll instead be starting at level 8, giving folks a chance to start in a Prestige Class.

My current plan is Solider 7/Scoundrel 1. Scoundrel is to get Persuasion on my list and the Point Blank Shot feat, a pre-req for Elite Trooper. My species selection and dice rolls yield a low strength score, so I imagine I'll be blasting from short range. As I only have D&D experience to draw upon, I don't know if this is a viable combat strategy or not. But it's the direction I'm heading in, sans dire warnings to turn back now.

Feats/talents appear to be what most would expect for a tanky guy, but neither Shield Expert nor Fortifying Recovery were on my list yet. This is what I've got so far. Comments/Criticism welcome:

Feats
Starting Soldier Feats +
Level 1 Feat: Improved Damage Threshold
Level 2 Soldier Bonus Feat: Extra Second Wind
Level 3 Feat: Armor Proficiency (heavy)
Level 4 Soldier Bonus Feat: Recovering Surge
Level 6 Feat: Skill Training (Persuasion)
Level 1 Scoundrel Feat: Point-Blank Shot
Level 6 Soldier Bonus Feat: Martial Arts I

Talents
Level 1 Soldier Talent: Armored Defense
Level 3 Soldier Talent: Improved Armored Defense
Level 5 Soldier Talent: Second Skin
Level 1 Scoundrel Talent: Advantageous Opening
Level 7 Soldier Talent: Draw Fire

At level 9 I could start taking Elite Trooper levels, which is the plan. I'll again point out my ignorance of the system and therefore the possible over/under estimation of the efficacy of these choices, and therefore invite you to point out any pitfalls on the edges of which I may be teetering.

[emeraldstreak]

Persuasion on my list and the Point Blank Shot feat, a pre-req for Elite Trooper. My species selection and dice rolls yield a low strength score, so I imagine I'll be blasting from short range. As I only have D&D experience to draw upon, I don't know if this is a viable combat strategy or not. But it's the direction I'm heading in, sans dire warnings to turn back now.

Feats/talents appear to be what most would expect for a tanky guy, but neither Shield Expert nor Fortifying Recovery were on my list yet. This is what I've got so far. Comments/Criticism welcome:

Feats
Starting Soldier Feats +
Level 1 Feat: Improved Damage Threshold
Level 2 Soldier Bonus Feat: Extra Second Wind
Level 3 Feat: Armor Proficiency (heavy)
Level 4 Soldier Bonus Feat: Recovering Surge
Level 6 Feat: Skill Training (Persuasion)
Level 1 Scoundrel Feat: Point-Blank Shot
Level 6 Soldier Bonus Feat: Martial Arts I

Talents
Level 1 Soldier Talent: Armored Defense
Level 3 Soldier Talent: Improved Armored Defense
Level 5 Soldier Talent: Second Skin
Level 1 Scoundrel Talent: Advantageous Opening
Level 7 Soldier Talent: Draw Fire

At level 9 I could start taking Elite Trooper levels, which is the plan. I'll again point out my ignorance of the system and therefore the possible over/under estimation of the efficacy of these choices, and therefore invite you to point out any pitfalls on the edges of which I may be teetering.

Advantageous Opening I rate pretty high. It's fun, and the more of you and them there are, the more powerful it becomes.

The rest is run-of-the-mill stuff for a tanky character. The thing is some choices depend on your DM's policy to gear will be...Shield Expert is useless without a shield, and Armor Proficiency (heavy) isn't worth it without a good heavy armor.

One warning: SAGA differs from DnD with the Condition Track levels. There are characters that can disable/kill you without ever bothering with your Hit Points (Mandalorian snipers can do this). Any serious tank must have 1 talent or feat for faster Track recovery.

Also, Evasion isn't as restricted as it is in DnD, and is very good v autofire, explosions. These are threats you may see a lot in a high tec setting.


As for offense, Ranged is fine. Consider grabbing weapons with different special abilities in time. A single target one, an area one, a sonic one that Jedi cannot deflect, etc.

[emeraldstreak]

A Telekineticist Force User spec (which, by the way, is all about positioning and cannot really properly be captured in PbP) would wipe the floor hard.

If anything PbP are better for tracking positioning with the detailed maps we use on Google Docs.

[silvertree]

Good deal, thanks Emerald!