Battle master/Swashbuckler optimisation.

[Turbologic]

I am building a 14 lvl character.
I don' know if i should take 3 levels on fighter just for the battlemasters basics abilities or 4 for the extra feat/attributes or go 5 lvl for extra attack.
I prefer my rogue swashbuckler higher level.
Note:My character is a vice admiral if the background matters.

[Quoz]

So the options you are debating are Fighter(BM) 3/Rogue(Swashbuckler) 11 vs 4/10 vs 5/9

3/11 or 5/9 both grant one ASI, so which is more valuable to you: and extra sneak attack die and reliable talent or extra attack?

4/10 grants neither, but gives an extra ASI.

Even on a single target striker like a rogue extra attack can be very useful. It gives an extra chance at sneak attack, and for a swashbuckler let's you avoid an extra opportunity attack. It also can be used for a shove (still a melee attack to trigger fancy footwork) to reposition or prone. Since you said your background is an admiral, I'm guessing you may find yourself fighting in the kind of places where shoving someone over a railing will be useful often.

Reliable talent is the ultimate skill monkey ability. If you plan on filling in utility roles or using combat related skill checks regularly, this is a very nice pickup.

An extra ASI is always useful. If you go 4/10 you will have had 4 total, enough to probably max out your primary stat and get some nice feats to compliment your chosen playstyle.

You aren't wrong with any choice, and either way by 16th level I would probably aim for Fighter 5/ Rogue 11. Both classes plateau a bit after, and you're not going to reach any capstones. Ultimately it's up to your playstyle where you go from there.

[Arkhios]

Swashbuckler's 9th level feature is actually pretty good and Extra Attack is huge improvement for weapon users, so I would go with Fighter 5/Rogue 9 split at lvl 14.

Next level is pretty much up to you, as either grants an extra ASI. Whichever you take, I would recommend taking the other immediately after that because who wouldn't like two ASI at consequent levels!

However, as a BM I wouldn't probably bother with 7th level fighter because Know Your Enemy is pretty bad. Even though you would also learn two more maneuvers and gain one more superiority die along with it.
I would instead keep taking rogue levels from that point forward.

[WickerNipple]

Swashbuckler's 9th level feature is actually pretty good and Extra Attack is huge improvement for weapon users, so I would go with Fighter 5/Rogue 9 split at lvl 14.


Fighter 5/Rogue 9 would also be my recommendation. Extra Attack on a rogue is far too valuable to pass up.

[Specter]

Definitely 5/9.

You get 3 ASI's this way, which is what you want for max DEX and feats (if you're out of ideas, Tough, Alert and Lucky are always good).

Also Extra Attack is important, because you want another chance of landing Sneak Attack even if you miss your first attack.

[Dudewithknives]

I will go against the grain and say swashbuckler 11 battlemaster 3.

Reliable talent is just that good, especially if combined with their level 9 ability.

Next level you get an ASL no matter what, and can get another the next if you split them up.

Take two weapon fighting as you style and just dual wield, for when you need the extra attacks.

ASI just up your dex to 20 and your cha should be a 16 anyway.

With precision attack and twf you can live without the normal second attack.

[Arkhios]

I will go against the grain and say swashbuckler 11 battlemaster 3.

Reliable talent is just that good, especially if combined with their level 9 ability.

Next level you get an ASL no matter what, and can get another the next if you split them up.

Take two weapon fighting as you style and just dual wield, for when you need the extra attacks.

ASI just up your dex to 20 and your cha should be a 16 anyway.

With precision attack and twf you can live without the normal second attack.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that makes an infinite number of us.

I would much rather take Extra Attack as soon as possible and wait a couple of levels for Reliable Talent than the other way around. Additional attack per turn is much more valuable for Rogue, than a permanent "take 10" in skills.

[Waazraath]

I will go against the grain and say swashbuckler 11 battlemaster 3.

Reliable talent is just that good, especially if combined with their level 9 ability.

Next level you get an ASL no matter what, and can get another the next if you split them up.

Take two weapon fighting as you style and just dual wield, for when you need the extra attacks.

ASI just up your dex to 20 and your cha should be a 16 anyway.

With precision attack and twf you can live without the normal second attack.

To be honest, I agree, but not because of reliable talent. I tend to think that the most important part in Battlemaster is getting attacks as a reaction, effectively doubling your damage (since sneak attack is only 1/turn). Extra attack is just gravy. And as a swashbuckler, you can easily go two weapon fighting, using your bonus action to trigger your SA damage on your second (bonus action) attack, in case you miss. If you do that, you'll miss 2AC (since you can use a shield if you don't go 2wf - fighter gives proficiency). But that's not too big a deal imo.

[Dudewithknives]

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that makes an infinite number of us.

I would much rather take Extra Attack as soon as possible and wait a couple of levels for Reliable Talent than the other way around. Additional attack per turn is much more valuable for Rogue, than a permanent "take 10" in skills.

Reliable talent is not taking 10, it is roll whatever you get but if it is below 10 make it a 10, even on disadvantage.

You can still roll over 10, it is just that if you roll under 10 you get to consider it a roll of 10.

It is also on ever skill you are proficient in, which as a rogue and possibly a half elf on top that is a lot of skills.

You never have to worry about a bad roll screwing you over, you can't make a bad roll.

[Arkhios]

Reliable talent is not taking 10, it is roll whatever you get but if it is below 10 make it a 10, even on disadvantage.

You can still roll over 10, it is just that if you roll under 10 you get to consider it a roll of 10.

It is also on ever skill you are proficient in, which as a rogue and possibly a half elf on top that is a lot of skills.

You never have to worry about a bad roll screwing you over, you can't make a bad roll.

Did you not notice the quotation marks around that Take 10? I didn't mean it as a literal reference.

I'm aware what Reliable Talent does, thankyouverymuch. I would still take Extra Attack before Reliable Talent any day.

[Specter]

Did you not notice the quotation marks around that Take 10? I didn't mean it as a literal reference.

I'm aware what Reliable Talent does, thankyouverymuch. I would still take Extra Attack before Reliable Talent any day.

And the level distriburion also makes it one less ASI.

I don't get it when people say you don't need Extra Attack if you have Sneak Attack. More damage is more damage; dual-wielding with Extra Attack and Riposte, you can get up to for attacks in a round. That's massive.

[MrStabby]

And the level distriburion also makes it one less ASI.

I don't get it when people say you don't need Extra Attack if you have Sneak Attack. More damage is more damage; dual-wielding with Extra Attack and Riposte, you can get up to for attacks in a round. That's massive.

Well this just depends on the campaign and the limits of the party. If the danger to the party is not from an orc that wants to hit you with an axe but is instead from traps or hidden ambushes, or from hidden plotlines that need knowledge to decipher or any other area of the game then reliable talent is much better.

I see reliable talent supporting both social and exploration pillars of the game whereas extra attack only supports the combat pillar. If you are wanting to shove around enemies then reliable talent even supports that pillar as well.

[Mikal]

What race are you?
If of elven heritage, and you have an extra feat to burn, pick up magic initiate and get find familiar for an owl to generate advantage plus booming blade and greenflame blade, and get elven accuracy. Then you can go BM 3 or 4/Swashbuckler 11 or 10.

Otherwise, you'll probably get more out of BM 5/SB 9 due to Extra Attack.

The important thing to remember is that you want Extra Attack to land your Sneak Attack damage. If you can generate the same amount of attack rolls for a single attack, or even more attack rolls, then that's what you should focus on. In addition, a single attack allows you to pile on extra damage via BB and GFB whereas Extra Attack doesn't.

Personally, I'd try and eat the feat for Magic Initiate because then you get the combat utility and skill utility at once, unless it completely wrecks your build to do so, even if you aren't elven. While the Elven Accuracy feat is great, even consistent advantage gives you two attack rolls, equal to what Extra Attack normally provides.

And if the owl bites it, you still caused an enemy to waste an attack on it, and you can still cunning action hide and strike for advantage since you'll have reliable talent and a potentially great stealth score if expertised, and a good stealth score regardless, until you get a free hour to cast it again.

[Waffle_Iron]

Well this just depends on the campaign and the limits of the party. If the danger to the party is not from an orc that wants to hit you with an axe but is instead from traps or hidden ambushes, or from hidden plotlines that need knowledge to decipher or any other area of the game then reliable talent is much better.

I see reliable talent supporting both social and exploration pillars of the game whereas extra attack only supports the combat pillar. If you are wanting to shove around enemies then reliable talent even supports that pillar as well.

This is pretty much my position as well.
If your campaign is all combat, extra attack.
If it's a healthy mix or low combat, reliable talent.