PDA

View Full Version : The Survivor (build theory)



JellyPooga
2018-02-04, 10:09 AM
Off the back of the on-going "Point Buy" thread, I've been thinking about characters that are just plain good at living. Not a Tank or Coward but someone who, regardless of what's thrown at them, will always scrape through a perilous situation, whether it be combat, traps, environmental hazards or even a deadly battle of wits or persuasion (such as might be found in a courtroom). Here's some of my thoughts;

- HP. Hit Points are going to be important. This character will want either lots of them and/or ways to mitigate or avoid losing them. High AC may be part of this, but may not be a neccesity.

- Saves. This guy wants more than his regular two Save proficiencies and/or bonus(es) to them. Additional abilities that trigger off of successful Saves or that mitigate the effects of failed ones are also welcome.

- Rests. This character wants stamina; too many Long Rest based abilities may lead to an untimely death, so abilities that are always on or short rest based are preferable.

- Level. In order to be high level, you have to survive to that level. This build must be viable at all tiers of play.

- Ability Scores. No obvious dump stats, for a start. Con is clearly important for HP and resisting poison, disease and other "death" effects. Dex for evading traps and the like. Wis for mental fortitude. Cha for navigating social encounters or avoiding deadly encounters with a fast tongue or intimidatin' manner. Str and Int also have relevance, but can largely be relegated to lesser importance.

I'm posting from my phone right now, so will update later, but I'd like to hear any thoughts on race, class and general build.

PeteNutButter
2018-02-04, 10:47 AM
So... you’re looking for a paladin?

My paladin 6/hexblade 5 (currently) is the tankiest character I’ve ever played, and I play all tanks. 25 AC unbuffed (30 with shield spell), and saves averaging at +9. Lowest save is int at +6.

Point buy was 15, 8, 16, 8, 8, 16. Dump stats didn’t matter when you throw on cha and cloak and ring of protection, plus shield master for dex.

He’d outlive the party 3 times over.

Mortis_Elrod
2018-02-04, 10:58 AM
Should be looking for a ranger. I’d say revised ranger is best, probably gloom stalker or Horizon Walker.

I say should be because that should be the Rangers niche, the guy able to survive any encounter, any where, at any time, with any weapon style.

Not sure if it holds up as per phb though.

Edit: My go to for this type of character is Lizardfolk Gloomstalker. With maybe a dip into monk (1-6 levels just depends) and if available, Revised Ranger over PHB. Background just depends but bounty hunter/outlander/sailor/criminal/far traveler/ gladiator all fit thematically and for skills and feature.

Lizardfolk offers a lot for utility and surviving for a race. Swim speed, hold breath, extra language, AC, ways to make weapons, best unarmed strike at level 1, bonus action attack with temp hp as well, bonus skills, and Con and wis boost which is great for living.

Gloomstalker offers more damage and stealth early (and better initiative), and defense later on which pairs well with the low attack damage you’ll have early on without a +3 in attack stat early levels.

Mortis_Elrod
2018-02-04, 11:02 AM
So... you’re looking for a paladin?

My paladin 6/hexblade 5 (currently) is the tankiest character I’ve ever played, and I play all tanks. 25 AC unbuffed (30 with shield spell), and saves averaging at +9. Lowest save is int at +6.

Point buy was 15, 8, 16, 8, 8, 16. Dump stats didn’t matter when you throw on cha and cloak and ring of protection, plus shield master for dex.

He’d outlive the party 3 times over.

I think OP asked to not be a tank, and not have dump stats. Also magic items aren’t....dependable .

Very good build though

Wisefool
2018-02-04, 11:06 AM
Not exactly what you described in the OP, but I built my character for basic survival, giving him the Outlander BG (prof in Survival, plus a real nice feature that if the land allows, I can provide enough food and water for my entire party- I have used this a ton). When we find ourselves in inhospitable terrain, my character took the MI feat (Druid) for Goodberries. Optimistically, we save them to revive downed characters, then end of day health top offs, but if needed they also act as instant ramen, er, rations.

Unoriginal
2018-02-04, 11:19 AM
Sounds like a Zealot Barbarian/Rogue is what you want.

PeteNutButter
2018-02-04, 11:50 AM
I think OP asked to not be a tank, and not have dump stats. Also magic items aren’t....dependable .

Very good build though

I took his “no dump stats” as make sure you’re not horrible at saves, as the rest of that paragraph is mostly about saves. Cha makes up for it all, and shield master is a poor man’s evasion.

The build works without magic items. I was just pointing out what I had.

JellyPooga
2018-02-05, 04:44 AM
So... you’re looking for a paladin?

Paladin certainly fits the criteria. As another mentioned, I'm not specifically looking for a Tank, but Lay on Hands and Aura of Protection, on top of good HP and armour (among other less notable features) certainly make the Paladin a solid survivor in combat and out. For the "no nonsense" build, Paladin is a good choice.

Paladin does, however, lack a certain...I don't know, finesse? It's like taking a hammer to the problem; it'll get the job done with no frills, but the hammer only has one use; hitting things, or in this case raw numbers. Paladin gets bonuses to all Saves and good HP, but if he rolls badly or gets out of his comfort zone, he doesn't really have much else to fall back on, unlike...


Sounds like a Zealot Barbarian/Rogue is what you want.

I don't have XgtE, so can't comment on the Zealot part, but this build has what the Paladin doesn't; a wider range of skills to deal with multiple styles of encounter, Expertise in some of those skills to catapult the chance of success somewhere into the stratosphere, it has mobility through Cunning Action, damage mitigation with Rage, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion and even a bonus to Initiative (going first helps you live longer). What it lacks, however (excepting any boons from Zealot, which as stated, I'm unfamiliar with), is the raw numbers the Paladin offers. Barb/Rogue has just two Save proficiencies without feat investment (because this build likely wants a 7/13 split or similar and will probably miss out on Slippery Mind) and no bonus to them either.

I'm kind of surprised no-one jumped in with straight Long Death Monk; it has remarkable durability and a lot of "frills" like bonus action Dodge, Evasion and faster movement that contribute to a Survivor character, not to mention eventual proficiency in all Saves and the Long Death features themselves.

Fighter deserves an honourable mention for Second Wind and Action Surge; that extra action goes a long way.

I think Bard needs a shout out too; JoaT adding to straight ability checks is pretty unique and could be critical against certain environmental hazards. That they have Expertise and a wide skill base is points in the Bards favour too. Like the Rogue, they lack the raw bonus to Saves, but can make up for that somewhat with spells (with the caveat of being long rest limited). Like the Paladin, they lack some frills (no Evasion, no CA, etc.).

Thanks for all the replies; food for thought. Keep it coming, I'm still thinking this one through.

Slayn82
2018-02-05, 07:50 AM
Isn't that pretty much a Hill dwarf cleric? High constitution, extra HP, decent weapons, can use shields and medium armor (and even if his strength is lower than required, he can use heavy armor and doesn't lose speed from it), can use smith tools, so if you have time he can craft other useful tools as needed, including weapons or parts for traps.

Double Proficiency in History for stoneworks is almost always good enough for clues about the dungeon.

Guidance can help him or allies to pass skill checks. Sacred flame can usually damage high armored enemies, and radiant damage usually is the vulnerability of undead and demons, usually the hardest enemies to deal. Thaumaturgy's antics can often be used to give an opportunity for another action - and is an excellent distraction.

And then you add spellcasting and domain powers. Even the basic life domain makes him very durable, and he can share this with the party.

And let's not mention Dwarf Resilience + periapt of Wound Closure combo.

Throne12
2018-02-05, 08:07 AM
A hill dwarf long death monk is what you want. Your hp is a d8+1 so you have Average hp. Monks are hard to keep pen down. Everything is back on short rest. Higher level get more saving throws. AC isn't Terrible.

Waffle_Iron
2018-02-05, 08:32 AM
This might be an unpopular suggestion, but here goes:

Rock Gnome: The bonus to intelligence lets you have an int 10, with no points spent. So no penalty there. and a point of Con is good, too.
Advantage on saves vs magic vs mental stats is pretty important, too. Having a free Zippo lighter is handy.
Outlander Background: Won't starve, won't get lost.
Rogue, levels 1-5:
Level three: Thief. No, but really. If you're clever, it's a great feature in actual play. If not to your flavor, take Arcane Trickster.
Level four: resilient wisdom
level five has the sweetness, uncanny doge. Er, dodge.
Paladin, levels 1-15:
Level three: Oath of the Ancients
Season to taste.

S:14, D:14, C:12, W:11 (12 at level 4), I:10, C:14

You can go medium armor, to use the +2 from dex, and continue to use stealth.
You'll probably use a light crossbow midway between the party front liners and backliners. Until level ten, then maybe a short bow for the extra attack. In melee switch to short sword/rapier.
Paladin 4,8,12 can go towards cha, cha, con, I think.
Your rogue expertise can go towards stealth, and your choice of investigation/history/perception based on party comp/role-play.

Surviving in the woods
Surviving in urban environs
Stealthing encounters
Damage avoidance and light healing
Auras and good saves, and advantages
No real dump stats
Expertise in a skill of your choice
OK damage between sneak attack and smite

It's a first pass at the build, but might be good.

GlenSmash!
2018-02-05, 06:31 PM
I'm looking at the Zealot. Not only is there the Barbarian's high HPs and resistance, but the Zealots ability to rage beyond death is certainly helpful or surviving when others couldn't. The ability to re-roll a save isn't bad either, both do requiring raging however which does refresh on a long rest.

If I were making one that just surviving and decent saves, I would want the Lucky feat and resilient Wisdom. I'd go Half-elf for Race as immunity to the Sleep spell adds a great defense for a Barbarian. Point buy can get you 14,14,14,12,13,10 With Resilient eventually bumping that Wis to 14.

The a fore mentioned Rogue adds always on utility and survivability with Uncanny dodge.

But if I were more concerned with making saves, a Paladin 6/Monk 14/ will get Proficiency + Cha bonus to all saves and re-roll with the cost of a Ki point. Standard human and point buy could start you with 14, 13, 14, 12, 14, 14 wearing plate and shield for AC of 20

You would use armor and forgo Martial Arts and monk movement. Other monk abilities will work fine in armor. Again grabbing the Lucky feat is a great way to increase survivablity. 3 ASIs to max Charisma. It would be pretty solid. You could play it as a straight Paladin then switch to Monk, I think it'd be pretty playable from level 1.

Rhynear
2018-02-05, 07:13 PM
If probably go with Rogue Scout 13/Gloom Stalker Ranger 7. Start with an 8/15/15/8/15/8 point but and go Half Elf meaning you have an array of 8/16/15/8/16/10. Take Rogue first before taking the Ranger levels and then finishing off with Rogue, 4 expertise including nature and survival, take resilient Con at level 4 and you are proficient in all saves except strength and charisma by level 14 while having Uncanny Dodge and Evasion along with extra movement and all of the base rogue and ranger bonuses. Other feats that you could take are Tough, Lucky, Alert and Observant depending on what you want out of them.

Whit
2018-02-05, 09:30 PM
I hope you play your dumped stats correctly.
Because when it comes to intelligence wisdom charisma people tend to play who they are and NOT what the character stats are. It’s up to the DM to make sure they Check the player as well.

LeonBH
2018-02-06, 01:15 AM
Regardless of build, you probably want the Lucky feat. It's a long rest resource, but you get three a day which you use only to turn nat 20's into misses. Nat 20's against you should be rare, so 3/day should cover most instances of this.

I'd like to offer the Half-Orc into the mix, who can get up from 0 HP once per long rest. It's another long rest resource, but it's potentially enough to give you a chance to recoup any HP lost or get away before you die for good.

A Rogue/Barbarian should be incredibly resilient. Thief/Bear Totem offers resistance to all damage except psychic, gives you upward mobility via 2nd Story Work, and gives you a bonus action heal via healing potions. It can die unlike the Zealot, but Lucky and Half Orc will make that a hard upward battle.

sithlordnergal
2018-02-06, 02:58 AM
Hmmm, I have a nutty build that might work here:

Race: Human

Stats:

Str - 15

dex - 10

con 14

Int -13

wis 10

Cha- 16

Classes:

Oath of the Ancients Paladin: 8
Divination Wizard: 2
Draconic Sorcerer: 10

Feats Needed:
War Caster
Any feat that gives Skill proficency and Expertise

How it works:

Oath of the Ancients allows you to survive pretty much all spell damage. You have no real weakness, meaning your Charisma mod can make up for a lack of saving throws. Also, take Defense Fighting Style for higher AC

Divination Wizard provides a few things. The first, out of combat cantrips like Light and Mage Hand. Second, you can ritual cast any 1st level spells, nd write such spells in your book. Third, you have the two Portent rolls which could help out of tough situations and survive

Sorcerer provides more spell casting, more spell slots, metamagic, and whatever benefits are gained from your sorcerer subclass. You can really take any subclass you want here. Even though your spells will be limited, you really only need to focus on ritual and buffing spells, with one or two ranged attack spells and fireball. You'll use most of your slots to smite.

Benefits:

You'll eventually have the spell slots of a 16th level caster, have a bit of the versatility of a wizard, and the survivability of a paladin. The Sorcerer can help shore up Paladin weaknesses, such as their pitiful ranged options, while providing you a great way to buff yourself.

You also have high AC to help mitigate your somewhat lower HP, and can always boost it with a combination of Shield of Faith or Haste and Shield. As a Paladin you'll also have Lay on Hands, Cure Wounds, Lesser Restoration, and a few other curative spells.

Best part is this works at all tiers of play, though it comes online very late. Level 15 at the earliest if you count 3rd level spells as coming online. Up until then you'll be a Paladin for most of the time before branching out.

Talionis
2018-02-07, 10:36 PM
7 Nature Paladin/ 3 Chain Warlock / 10 Lore Bard.

7th level spell slots and 2nd level recharging Warlock spell slots. You can use Armor of Agathys in these high slots and keep AoA up longer using spells like Stone Skin and Warding Bond (works well in a ring of spell storing). Lore Inspiration can further reduce incoming damage. Heavy Armor Mastery might be an option for this character. Chain Improved Familiar should grant you the Advantage on Spells and Magical saves. This doubles up with the Auras from Nature Paladin.

You also get Bards Song of Healing and the ability to take any spell from any class with Bard magical secrets. So Paladin 3rd level Aura of Vitality could be an option. This might pair well with the new invocation from Xanathar that maximizes healing effects.

I think you are seeing the pattern that Nature Paladin 7 is a recurring theme in many suggestions.

the secret fire
2018-02-07, 11:37 PM
Start as a Halfling. Their ability to re-roll natural 1s adds quite a lot to your chances of survival. Make him a Stout. Now you've got a Con bonus and advantages on saves vs. fear and poison, and you can move through the space of any creature that is larger than you, which is most creatures, making you very difficult to corner. As far as classes go, Monk is probably your best bet. Ki to dodge can keep you alive, Slow Fall can keep you alive, Catch Arrows, as well. Monks have excellent defensive abilities generally. Not being seen is a good way of not dying, so there is a lot to be said for the Shadow Monk as a subclass. A Monk of the Long Death is eventually almost un-killable, though it'll take a while to get there (11th level). Whichever way you go, you will also eventually have proficiency in all saves. Also, you don't need weapons or equipment of any type, really, so you can more easily defy all the different bits of bad luck that cause characters to lose their gear.

Lucky and Mobility are probably your go-to feats. Mobility is wonderful when combined with the Monk's high movement and Halfling Nimbleness for getting yourself out of tight spots, and all the attacks that a Monk gets with flurry of blows means you can step through a bunch of enemies without eating AoOs. Lucky is quite obvious. Other than that, Alertness will keep you from getting ambushed.

Yeah, that's probably your best bet. Stout Halfling Monk, either Shadow or Long Death, with Lucky, Mobility and Alertness for feats. Start with the following stats:

Str: 10
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Take a background which gives you Persuasion and Perception (ask your DM!), and you should be good to go.

strangebloke
2018-02-08, 12:43 AM
Play a blacksmith.

not a forge cleric. Not an artificer. An NPC blacksmith who makes arms and armor and lives in a relatively stable city like Waterdeep.

1. Nobody kills a blacksmith. Everyone needs a guy who can make arms and armor.
2. Upper middle class life style ensures good nutrition.
3. Physical labor that doesn't place undo strain on back or endanger head.
4. He will never be anywhere remotely close to any place that has a name remotely resembling "The tomb of horrors."

Seriously, as I see it, you want three big things:

-Resistances, HP, and AC. Take/dodge more hits than your neighbor. Win the day.
-Saves. You got hold person cast on you? you're dead. You got hit with Maze? You're trapped.
-Mobility. People forget this one. If you're at the bottom of a greased pit, having a billion HP won't do you much good.
-"No, I did not die" resources. How many panic buttons do you need?

My builds:
Bear Totem Barbarian 4, Rogue 2, Long Death monk 14,
Vhuman(Tough)
Final stats: 20 DEX, 20 CON, 13 STR, 12 WIS just cause technically you're supposed to be wise.

-20 AC, can dodge as a bonus action, has great hp, Can halve all incoming damage for three encounters a day.
-Proficient in all saves. Can reroll a failed save if things get bad. Should never fail a save.
-Fast as hades. Can jump a thirty foot chasm without a check. Can slow his own fall. Can disengage, hide, and dash as a bonus action.
-His weakest category. still, he can avoid dropping unconcious with a single ki, has rage, and can blow through ki to run away even more efficiently

-Tough, slippery bastard, but can't teleport or cast shield or anything like that.

Hexblade 1, Rogue 2. Abjurer 17
Vhuman(tough)
Final stats: 20 INT, 14 DEX, 20 CON. 12 WIS for saves

-18 AC without shield spell. Between he and his Simulacrum, he has 78 hp in his arcane ward that he can recharge on a short rest. He can upcast Armor of Agathys at up to eighth level, meaning that until both his ward and his 40 hp from armor of agathys runs out, he deals 40 damage to anyone who hits him. Shield spell and absorb elements. Contingent Polymorph.
-Dumpy saves. Who neeeds them? Advantage on all saves against magic, which are the only saves that matter. Advantage on counterspell attempts, which is even better.
-Can teleport and fly as needed.
-Has more buttons than anyone.

-Main weakness is if he can't cast for some reason.

--Hexblade 1, Ancients Pally 7, Draconic Sorcerer 12 is an obvious choice, but others have already spoken to that.

JellyPooga
2018-02-08, 05:37 AM
On Race;
- I was initially inclined toward Hill Dwarf for the solid ability score bonuses, additional HP and resistance/advantage vs. poison, but Stout Halfling is a very good shout; that Halfling Luck is literally a life-saver and being Small is no bad thing for getting out of a scrape or two. Thanks for that suggestion the secret fire.

- Half-orcs and they're ability to simply not die once in a while, is also a good shout LeonBH.

- I like the Gnome suggestion Waffle_Iron; the advantage on Saves vs. (mental) magic is definitely worth consideration. Not sure I'd go with Rock Gnome, though. Svirfneblin has a decidedly better "survivalist" package going on, including the option of a Feat granting de facto permanent Non-detection; if they can't find you, they can't hurt you, after all.

On Feats;
- Lucky is a good get-out-of-jail card; whether that should come early or late in the build is open to debate.

- Dungeon Delver is one I've been considering. Fringe though the benefits might be, it does offer advantage on all Saves vs. traps, regardless of the actual Save in question; Poison trap? Advantage. Fireball trap? Advantage. Swinging death-blade of doom with falling rocks, mind-fuddling gas spores in a paralysing magic aura that requires six Saves, one of each Ability Score? Yeah, got advantage on that too. Resistance against all trap damage if you do fail the Save(s) is nice too. Probably not an early pick; there are less focused Feats that will apply more generally and more frequently, but one worthy of consideration, I think.

- Alert and it's "no surprise" clause is clearly a temptation.

- Mobility is not one I was putting at the top of the list, but with Halfling (and their 20ft speed) on the table, I'm taking another look. In many situations, speed is life and until higher levels when flight (whether from spell, mount or item) is common, that slow speed could be a killer. Mobility + Cunning Action is all sorts of awesome too, if Rogue enters the equation.

On Class;
- Warlock has me intrigued for this build. Particularly the Undying Patron. Permanent anti-Undead-Sanctuary is circumstantially nice; don't attack them and they can't attack you (Cha Save pending). More pertinent is getting access to a short rest based Death Ward. It would require a 7 level investment, which is pretty steep, but basically being able to have Death Ward up 24/7 is a tempting proposition. Warlock also has some very nice survival spells; Gaseous Form is one of my favourite spells and is great for getting out of all sorts of scrapes, not to mention Protection from E/G, Misty Step and Dimension Door, all accessible on a short rest basis. I'm a little concerned about how few spells per rest are available, however; a "true" full-caster has greater access to a range of effects at any one time, even if they are long-rest dependent.

- I'd completely overlooked the Diviners Portent, so thanks for reminding me sithlordnergal.

Thanks for further replies; cogitation still on-going so keep it coming. Cheers! :smallbiggrin:

Talionis
2018-02-08, 11:23 AM
On Class;
- Warlock has me intrigued for this build. Particularly the Undying Patron. Permanent anti-Undead-Sanctuary is circumstantially nice; don't attack them and they can't attack you (Cha Save pending). More pertinent is getting access to a short rest based Death Ward. It would require a 7 level investment, which is pretty steep, but basically being able to have Death Ward up 24/7 is a tempting proposition. Warlock also has some very nice survival spells; Gaseous Form is one of my favourite spells and is great for getting out of all sorts of scrapes, not to mention Protection from E/G, Misty Step and Dimension Door, all accessible on a short rest basis. I'm a little concerned about how few spells per rest are available, however; a "true" full-caster has greater access to a range of effects at any one time, even if they are long-rest dependent.

- I'd completely overlooked the Diviners Portent, so thanks for reminding me sithlordnergal.

Thanks for further replies; cogitation still on-going so keep it coming. Cheers! :smallbiggrin:

If you go Warlock don't forget the Aura that the Chain Familiar can provide, giving you advantage to saves.

JellyPooga
2018-02-08, 12:10 PM
If you go Warlock don't forget the Aura that the Chain Familiar can provide, giving you advantage to saves.

Debatable. I'm not sure which side of the fence I sit on, but many GM's don't allow that particular sidebar as paet of the Class Feature.

History_buff
2018-02-08, 02:07 PM
So I’ve posted about my favorite character build before, and I think this will tick most of your boxes.

It takes until char level 9 for this to really come online, and character level 13 for you to be an absolute terror in a fight being hard to kill doing decent damage/spell casting.

Bard College of Swords X/ Eldritch Knight fighter 3 or 4

Race- Half-Elf (if you want better Cha and darkvision) or Variant human (if you want an extra feat)

Starting ability scores
Str- 8 or 10
Dex- 16
Con- 13 (if taking resilient con) or 14
Int- 8 or 10
Wis- 11 (if taking resilient wisdom) otherwise 10 or 12
Cha- 14 if human, 16 if half elf

Equipment
Rapier
Shield
Studded Leather

Skills- go nuts. Acrobatics, stealth, heck even athletics with expertise would be decent (think Shield Master feat)

You’ll be 3 levels behind bard spell progression but here’s what you get in return. Fighting style (take defensive because you’ll get dueling from swords bard), second wind, action surge!, and... shield spell, absorb elements, and one other (expeditious retreat is good), three/four levels of d10 hd, weapon bond, shield proficiency.

With defensive flourish you’re getting a bardic inspiration die to AC. You also have shield.

With Dex 18 and even with no magic armor or weapons you will have an AC of 19. 24 with shield spell, add a d6/8/10 if you flourish.

You have great Dex saves, and with shield master feat no damage on a save (might drop absorb elements if you get shield master). Resilient Con helps with concentration and not dying. Resilient Wis is another option.

Basically you are an incredibly tough gish with a lot of skills. When you get dimension door you can bug out if you’re in a bad spot.

Easy_Lee
2018-02-08, 02:28 PM
Make a rock gnome barbarian.

Barbarian (Bear) 5 / Rogue (thief) X

Barbarians can give themselves free advantage and with Sneak Attack you do decent damage as long as you land one attack per round. This makes up for not having +2 to an attack attribute.

If you take the Healer feat, you can use healer's kits as a bonus action to heal yourself and others. You can do the same with healing potions if your DM allows. If he does, you could skip Healer and take Lucky instead.

With rage + uncanny dodge, you can cut the damage from an attack down to one quarter. I think this speaks for itself.

Gnomes have advantage on most of the saving throws that you aren't good at. That's about a +3 to your weak saves - nice.

You also gain an extra feat at rogue 10 and slippery mind at rogue 15 (if your game goes all the way to 20). Resilient dexterity at rogue 10 would be wise, if you haven't already taken it. The combination of rogue + barbarian (danger sense) produces some astounding Dex saves.

Run around with two daggers and be a lethal ankle biter, a pint-sized Drax the Destroyer.

strangebloke
2018-02-08, 02:54 PM
Make a rock gnome barbarian.

Barbarian (Bear) 5 / Rogue (thief) X

Barbarians can give themselves free advantage and with Sneak Attack you do decent damage as long as you land one attack per round. This makes up for not having +2 to an attack attribute.

If you take the Healer feat, you can use healer's kits as a bonus action to heal yourself and others. You can do the same with healing potions if your DM allows. If he does, you could skip Healer and take Lucky instead.

With rage + uncanny dodge, you can cut the damage from an attack down to one quarter. I think this speaks for itself.

Gnomes have advantage on most of the saving throws that you aren't good at. That's about a +3 to your weak saves - nice.

You also gain an extra feat at rogue 10 and slippery mind at rogue 15 (if your game goes all the way to 20). Resilient dexterity at rogue 10 would be wise, if you haven't already taken it. The combination of rogue + barbarian (danger sense) produces some astounding Dex saves.

Run around with two daggers and be a lethal ankle biter, a pint-sized Drax the Destroyer.
I like this, but taking Resilient: DEX seems kind of redundant when you already have advantage, danger sense, and +5 DEX. I guess I would pick up mobililty or magic initiate or something.

Easy_Lee
2018-02-08, 03:24 PM
I like this, but taking Resilient: DEX seems kind of redundant when you already have advantage, danger sense, and +5 DEX. I guess I would pick up mobililty or magic initiate or something.

Only if you max Dex. This build would attack with strength due to Reckless Attack.

the secret fire
2018-02-08, 03:32 PM
More in favor of the Monk: Stillness of Mind allows you to throw off charm and fear effects even if you fail your save, which largely makes up for not gaining Wis save proficiency until 14th level. Also, Dex save proficiency plus Evasion. At 10th level, you become straight-up immune to disease and poison, again helping cover for not getting Con save proficiency until later. Most of the Monk's abilities are defensive, and the class gets a whole lot of them.

I should add that the 60 foot bonus action teleport the Shadow Monk gets is incredibly useful for escaping danger, and dim light is very common, in my experience.

The Monk of the Long Death might be even more hardy. Gaining Wis + Monk Level temporary HP every time you reduce a creature to 0 HP comes online at 3rd level, and obviously the 11th level ability makes them the hardest class in the game to actually kill. The at-will fear effect gained at 6th level also provides excellent battlefield control, and can clear out a lot of enemies if you happen to get surrounded. If you're looking for a class that provides great survivability that comes online early and continues to improve, it is really, really hard to beat a single-classed Monk of the Long Death. Their un-killability is right there in the name of the subclass.

mormon_soldier
2018-02-08, 03:34 PM
What I'm seeing from the wide variety of suggestions is that most race/class combos are fairly resilient if you build them right. Are there any that are especially prone to frailty?

Easy_Lee
2018-02-08, 03:42 PM
What I'm seeing from the wide variety of suggestions is that most race/class combos are fairly resilient if you build them right. Are there any that are especially prone to frailty?

It's more the case that any class can be built for resilience. Races are another story as there's nothing particularly resilient about tieflings.

JellyPooga
2018-02-08, 03:44 PM
It's more the case that any class can be built for resilience. Races are another story as there's nothing particularly resilient about tieflings.

Except Fire Resistance...

Easy_Lee
2018-02-08, 03:49 PM
Except Fire Resistance...

Sure, depending on the campaign.

Jack Bitters
2018-02-08, 05:28 PM
My two bits for the Champion as the Sole Survivor:
1) The level 18 ability is called Survivor.
2) You have good versatility because of your two extra feats as a fighter and half proficiency on Str, Dex, and Con skill checks. Also, any weapon you use will be deadlier than normal.

That being said, for true resilience... I would go with Forest Gnome for the advantage on mental saves against magic, pick up Magic Initiate: Warlock and grab Hex, Blade Ward, and Prestidigitation.

Ability scores start with 13 14 13 12 13 13 –> increase with six feats to 16 18 16 12 14 14. Fighting styles defensive and archery. For skills I'd take Perception and Survival, then use your background to pick two more mental-stat ones, like Deception and Insight.
With indomitable, at least against some spells, you'll have three chances to save against terrible effects like hold person or feeblemind.
Use hex to give enemies disadvantage on skill checks, like Insight, Athletics, or Stealth, and provide yourself with damage.

The weakness of this fighter is the 25 foot movement speed and relatively low armor class. All other bases are pretty much covered.

strangebloke
2018-02-08, 05:33 PM
It's more the case that any class can be built for resilience. Races are another story as there's nothing particularly resilient about tieflings.

Eh, wild sorcerer is pretty frail, and the opportunity cost for making him hardy is pretty high. (maxed DEX, mage armor, shield, absorb elements)

Yes, you can multiclass, or get medium armor proficiency or extra hit points through your race, but the Wild sorc itself has very little to offer in terms of survivability.

I could say the same of GOOlocks.

Even battlemasters don't have any abilities that mitigate damage other than high AC, high HP, and second wind. They get absolutely slaughtered by certain types of spells.

XmonkTad
2018-02-09, 01:01 PM
Svirfneblin Abjurer with the Deep Gnome racial magic feat. Having arcane ward is nice, but having one that's always full is much better. That, plus having nondetection up all the time, as well as blur when you need it.

Ritorix
2018-02-09, 10:44 PM
I'll take a crack at this. Stated goals were:
-HP
-Saves
-Short rest dependency
-Viable at all levels
-No dump stats unless str/int.

Consider a samurai archer. To start at level 1:
Half elf fighter, archery fighting style.
10Str/16Dex/14Con/8Int/16Wis/10Cha after racials (+1dex/+1wis/+2cha)

Skills:
perception/insight (half elf)
survival/animal handling (fighter)
stealth/acro (folk hero background, slots are freed up by fighter choices)

Level 3: Samurai chosen. Persuasion gained. Fighting Spirit gained (3/day).
Level 4 ASI: Sharpshooter. Gimmick is to use this with Fighting Spirit, Action Surge and Elven Accuracy all at once.
Level 6 ASI: Elven Accuracy, +1Dex
Level 7: Gains wisdom save proficiency. Gains WIS bonus to Persuasion.
Level 8 ASI: Resilient DEX, +1Dex
Level 10: Tireless Spirit; 1 use of Fighting Spirit when you roll init.

You start off a typical archer. By level 8 you end up with:
-DEX/CON/WIS save proficiency (the big 3)
-Fighter HP, THP from samurai, second wind from base fighter.
-Huge burst dps from Sharpshooter + Elven Accuracy + Samurai advantage + Action Surge.
-Melee options with scimitar and whip. Build could be tweaked for pure melee.
-Has a big variety of competent skills for social, exploration and combat. Pumping Dex and Wis makes that possible.

Cons? It's a fighter. Not as sexy as a paladin/warlock multiclass beast.

Also can be reworked as a stout halfing if you really want lucky and the Luck feat. Would use a shortbow (not a big DPS loss; most is from Sharpshooter), misses out on Elven Accuracy but rerolls 1s, and has 2 fewer skills. Can get Sharpshooter at level 4, Resilient:Dex and 18 Dex at 6, Lucky at 8.

LeonBH
2018-02-09, 11:36 PM
Eh, wild sorcerer is pretty frail, and the opportunity cost for making him hardy is pretty high. (maxed DEX, mage armor, shield, absorb elements)

Yes, you can multiclass, or get medium armor proficiency or extra hit points through your race, but the Wild sorc itself has very little to offer in terms of survivability.

I could say the same of GOOlocks.

Even battlemasters don't have any abilities that mitigate damage other than high AC, high HP, and second wind. They get absolutely slaughtered by certain types of spells.

I disagree, assuming you manage to always trigger Wild Magic Surges (probably via Tides of Chaos). Just the threat of being in melee with a Wild Sorc who can surge next turn next to you is pretty frightening.

MeeposFire
2018-02-10, 12:22 AM
Except Fire Resistance...

And if you can spare a feat you can resistance to poison and cold too...

Derpldorf
2018-02-10, 05:37 AM
If your willing to put your downtime into learning to use the herbalism alchemists and poisoners tools you can take three levels in thief rogue and become a sort Alchemist lite able to use a bonus action to quaff/force potions down the throats of your allies or chuck a good range of alchemical items or poisons at your foes. On top of that, all the other things you can already do with your bonus action means you can basically have an answer to any situation.

If your planning on taking Rogue levels anyway, it's a good investment and lets you put your downtime to use making things that help you to not die.

History_buff
2018-02-10, 05:45 PM
If your willing to put your downtime into learning to use the herbalism alchemists and poisoners tools you can take three levels in thief rogue and become a sort Alchemist lite able to use a bonus action to quaff/force potions down the throats of your allies or chuck a good range of alchemical items or poisons at your foes. On top of that, all the other things you can already do with your bonus action means you can basically have an answer to any situation.

If your planning on taking Rogue levels anyway, it's a good investment and lets you put your downtime to use making things that help you to not die.

Also of note, if you’re a martially inclined character you can don and doff a shield as a bonus action with the thief third level ability. Nice little trick there if you want to switch hit with a bow.

JellyPooga
2018-02-11, 04:46 AM
Ok, so here's what I've got so far, with any defensive highlights or relevent choices noted;

Race: Svirfneblin (Deep Gnome)
- Gnome Cunning: Adv. on Int/Wis/Cha Saves vs. magic
- Stone Camouflage: Adv. on Stealth in rocky terrain
- Superior Darkvision: 120ft

Ability Scores
Str: 13
Dex: 13+1=14
Con: 13
Int: 10+2=12
Wis: 13
Cha: 13

Class
Ancients Paladin 8
- Save Proficiencies: Wis, Cha
- Lay on Hands: Healing
- Fighting Style (Defence): +1 AC
- Divine Health: Immune to Disease
- Aura of Protection: +Cha to Saves
- Aura of Warding: Resistance to magic damage
- Spellcasting ("Caster Level" 4):

- 1st: Bless, Heroism, Prot vs.E/G, Shield of Faith
- 2nd: Find Steed, Misty Step, Prot. vs.Poison

Lore Bard 6
- Skill proficiencies: +1
- Jack of all Trades: +(1/2 prof) to non-prof. checks
- College of Lore: +3 Skill prof.
- Cutting Words: penalise foes
- Expertise (Athletics, Perception): double prof.
- Spellcasting ("Caster Level" 10)

- Cantrips: Dancing Lights, Minor Illusion, Vicious Mockery
- 1st: Feather Fall
- 2nd: Calm Emotions, Enhance Ability, Invisibility, Silence
- 3rd: Dispel Magic, Hypnotic Pattern, Stinking Cloud
- Additional Magical Secrets: Gaseous Form, Pass Without Trace

Feats/ASI's
Paladin 4th - Resilient (Con): Save prof, +1 Con
Paladin 8th - ASI: +1 Wis, +1 Cha
Bard 4th - ASI: +2 Cha
I decided to go with Svirfneblin because the Superior Darkvision and Camouflage are great defensively and Gnome Cunning is obviously a massive boon vs. a lot of the more crippling magic, like Hold Person. Stout Halfling was a close second, but I figured that poison resistance has a spell for that, so if I'm expecting poison to be an issue I can just prep and cast that. Halfling Lucky was hard to pass up though.

Paladin and its Aura of Protection is just too good for this concept to pass up. Bard adds some much needed skills and general spellcasting ability. The Bard spells chosen, including Add.Magical Secrets, are possibly open to change, depending on the rest of the build. I'd like to squeeze Rogue in there for Cunning Action (mostly) and I'm still debating Warlock, which offers some remarkably defensive features. I'd rather avoid too much mini-dipping though, so just taking Bard to 12th or Paladin to 14th (or some combination in between) is also an option.

As far as ASI's go, ramping up Cha is probably a priority because it influences BI, AoP and spell save DC's, but there's also that odd Str score sitting there taunting me, so a half-feat to bump that up might be on the books and then there's any other obviously good choices like Alert, Lucky and Svirfneblin Magic (which in turn would make Abjurer Wizard a tempting proposition). Urgh...this is harder than I first thought!