weapon finesse mages

[Greenflame133]

So I like taking weapon finesses on mages such as sorcerer or wizard. The reason why I use that I already got high dex to land ranged spells and taking weapon finesses allows me to land touch spell without str.

I use especially often on things like pixie (-4 str and touch spell from grater pixie powers).

Making Str a worst start is what I do since heaviest thing I tent to carry around on mage is light crossbow leaving survival gear to rest of the team.

Anyways I’m not big on optimizing so I don’t know how useful is that feat from perspective of power, so what do you guys think about that?

[weckar]

The fact that you're using both rays and touch spells is something to be examined. That will gnaw on your resources two ways.

That said, are touch spells even finessable?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Not worth it on a pure mage. What are you even doing in melee range? Get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Reach Spell instead if you have to have those spells.
Maybe on a dex-based gish, but even then i'd rather take something else and buy a Feycraft weapon.

Feat slots are precious and there aren't that many melee touch spells (least of all any that'd make it worth going into melee range as a squishy) so spending a feat on a minor and situational bonus like that is a waste.
Not to mention there's tons of ways to boost attack rolls.

That could've been Uncanny Forethought, a metamagic feat, metamagic reducer, item creation or one of tons of other more useful and powerful wizard feats instead. Or even Improved Initiative.

[DrMotives]

That said, are touch spells even finessable?

Sure. You can deliver them with an unarmed strike, which is a light weapon. Without the strike, a touch is still a light weapon.

[Goaty14]

The fact that you're using both rays and touch spells is something to be examined. That will gnaw on your resources two ways.

That said, are touch spells even finessable?

Touchy spells aren't so bad if you use spectral hand. The disembodied hand won't even get hit unless they ready an action to do so, hit you with an area spell, or are genuinely up in your face (which they shouldn't be).

[Psyren]

That said, are touch spells even finessable?

Neither edition does the best job of spelling this out. Pathfinder does reference the natural attack rules immediately after describing touch attacks, which would allow them to inherit those qualities.

[ayvango]

Just buy eternal wand of heroics

[Crake]

So I like taking weapon finesses on mages such as sorcerer or wizard. The reason why I use that I already got high dex to land ranged spells and taking weapon finesses allows me to land touch spell without str.

I use especially often on things like pixie (-4 str and touch spell from grater pixie powers).

Making Str a worst start is what I do since heaviest thing I tent to carry around on mage is light crossbow leaving survival gear to rest of the team.

Anyways I’m not big on optimizing so I don’t know how useful is that feat from perspective of power, so what do you guys think about that?

Str is always important for not dying to shadows in one hit.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Str is always important for not dying to shadows in one hit.

I'd be more worried about not being able to take my spellbook (or anything else) out of my haversack without going into medium load.
Str below 8 (on a medium character) is seriously annoying to actually play if you track carry weight.

[death390]

Neither edition does the best job of spelling this out. Pathfinder does reference the natural attack rules immediately after describing touch attacks, which would allow them to inherit those qualities.

Actually Complete Arcane does talk about weaponlike spells p72& 85. spells can crit (20 x2) be used for sneak attacks, ect.
lots of feats work for them,
weapon focus (ranged spells/ touch spells)
Weapon Finesse (touch spells)
Point blank shot
improved critical
Point blank shot (yes ranged spells take -4 firing into melee)
Improved unarmed strike (can use standard AC attack to add melee damage to melee spell attack)
Stunning Fist (when using IUS to hit standard AC, can use Stunning fist DC 10+1/2 char lvl + Wis Mod)

Theoretically other feats could be applied (check with DM first since not listed, though many came out after CArc)
weapon specialization (requires Fighter 4)
Improved Precise Shot (BaB +11)
Power Attack (if used with IUS to hit standard AC i dont see why not)
[Greater] Cleave (without the spell unless it has charges remaining like Chill Touch)
Deadly Defense (+1D6 dmg when using defensive fighting using a light weapon, IE Unarmed strike)



Combos with the strike but separate
Arcane strike (burn a slot as free action to get +x atk & xd4 damage to a melee attack)
Knowledge Devotion +1-5 damage based on Knowledge check.