Sorcerer and Warlock vs Wizard

[ToastyTobasco]

I like CHA based characters, it's refreshing to not only be a powerful mage but to be the face of the party. Wizard just seems like the "I can do everything I want and the rest just goes into my little book" The power they bring just seems to dwarf the other casters. (Not counting Cleric, as I havent read a ton into them >.>). They dont seem to have a downside other than their book getting roasted. They even get some slots back on short rest and then there is the load of specializations.

Just looking for comparisons on what each class does really well.

What I think I know about these classes:

Warlock: OoC utility and shenanigans, good nova if party gets a decent rate of short rests and really neat build options on top of having awesome flavor for RP. If a Warlock gets optimal rests/day how do they compare? I thought the always casting at highest level would justify the lowered slots but Sorc and Wiz can upcast too. (Side question, how good are Warlocks at control/lockdown? Curious on a GOO Warlock focusing on manipulation spells). Warlock also gets cornered into EB spam easily.

Sorc: Like Warlock, doesnt have to memorize spells, has a really nice spell list and meta-magic. Also like the warlock; Sorc has limited spells per day but gets nothing back on short rest apparently.If played right Sorc has amazing power, control and support options but it requires a lot of thought to know when to cast. They seem they might suffer early game but then get really strong once those metamagic points add up. I'm really caught looking between Divine Soul and Fire Draconic for which is the top origin. Wild Magic seems REALLY DM dependant on when you might surge or if you ever do.

Wiz: Can do just about everything outside of Cleric stuff. (Healing, rez peoples).

This is kinda word vomit but it's a distraction from the stress of college. >.>

[Slayn82]

A well made Lore Bard can keep up well with Wizard's versatility to solve unexpected situations, either by magic, skills, or boosting someone else's rolls.

In raw, nova damage, Sorcerer beats Wizard easily.

Meanwhile, Tomelock can corner Wizard's (and everyone else's) ritual utility, while hitting hard with Eldritch Blast shenanigans, and the other invocations filling the niche of supplying utility of lower level spells, specially those invocations that offer skills or can be used at will. Light armor proficiency takes over mage armor's slot tax.

A Level 9 Tomelock can take: Agonizing Blast, Book of Ancient Secrets, Mask of Many Faces, Beguiling Influence, Beast Speech.

You have decent offensive powers, lots of utility, can arrange some animal minions to do your bidding, can be useful as party face and even swap your face. If you go Half elf, switch Beguiling Influence for Ascendant Step is a nice idea.

[Whit]

I understand why a bard would go off charisma but not a sorcerer or warlock.
Sorcerer seems to be based on constitution and a warlock on same or intelligence. But I guess if you make it con it provides fir a double dip for hit points and spell modifier.
Personally I like wizard because of more spell choices. Sorcerer is great with meta and to be honest I haven’t played warlock at all since I find the lack of spell casting to much

[Dr. Cliché]

Well, this is how I see them:

Wizard - By far the most flexible class in terms of spells. You have a lot of spells known, can add more as you go, and can swap them around as needed.

Sorcerer - Far less flexible in terms of spells (just a tiny pool of spells known), but can use Metamagic to augment those spells to some degree. Tend to be best suited to novaing - as they can use spell points to double up on spells (but of course this also means doubling-up on expended resources). They need to be very careful in which spells they choose, as they really can't afford to be lugging around situational ones.

Warlock - More flexible than the sorcerer in terms of spells known (though nowhere near the wizard), but inflexible in terms of how many they can cast each day. Since their spells are always cast at the highest level they can cast, their spells tend to have more impact (if they don't, you're probably not using them right ::smallbiggrin:). However, it also means that (especially at higher levels) they don't have spare, low-level slots for spells like Shield, Absorb Elements or Misty Step.

I'd probably describe Warlocks as endurance casters. They can't nova like sorcerers and they'll run out of spells before wizards or sorcerers, but they have the best damage cantrip in the game and their spell slots refresh on a short rest.

Warlocks also have additional options in terms of their Pact and Invocations, which can give them extra versatility or enhance their existing abilities.



I understand why a bard would go off charisma but not a sorcerer or warlock.
Sorcerer seems to be based on constitution and a warlock on same or intelligence. But I guess if you make it con it provides fir a double dip for hit points and spell modifier.

I'd agree about sorcerers, though letting them cast with Con could make them a bit too SAD.

Not sure about Int for Warlocks, though. There is a lot of study involved, but it could be that personality is still more important in terms of persuading the Patron to take them on as pseudo-apprentices in the first place.

Honestly though, you could probably justify warlocks using just about any stat. :smallwink:

[ThatDrowPlayer]

It comes down to the overall concept of the classes. The Wizard learns the most amount of spells and is the most versatile because s/he plays the long-run game. They spend their lives constantly studying and pouring over spells, tomes, and scrolls to accumulate a wealth of magic.

The Warlock, on the other hand, takes a short-cut - s/he bargains for greater power now from the patron, and in the short-run always seems to be strong. S/he gets the invocations to cast stuff freely, but only in small quantities (such as only the invisibility spell or mage armor but not the entire spell list), or they gain small yet powerful, short-term boosts or powerful permanent boosts to lesser spells. They are essentially leaching off the vast power that a great being has, rather than summoning or learning power of their own. In essence, they get but a fraction of that arcane power.

The Sorcerer lies somewhere in between, instead owing its source of magic to something beyond its control: birth. Sorcerers are often portrayed as out of control, because they manifest their abilities much like mutants do in X-Men comic books. They are powerful, or they are not, and they manipulate the physics and mechanics of magic because they possess raw, arcane energy, a connection with the metaphysical plane that Wizards and Warlocks lack. They can be quite destructive, but extremely unpredictable because they are forces of chaos.

Thus it makes sense that the Wizard has the most flexibility, as they learn to grow their abilities and develop their own individual ways to harness them and cast. The Warlocks seemingly have the least amount of flexibility because they are not getting the true source of the power, only someone else's few droplets of it. They are limited because they do not generate it for themselves, rather they are bequeathed small fragments of great power from a greater source of magic. The Sorcerers are in the middle because they possess the power and energy, but not always the focus and years of experience and study to find their full potential, but a proper build can make the difference.