1v1 Brawl with a Troll

[the_brazenburn]

In my campaign, trolls have a very defined society based on brawling. In a single combat with no weapons, the most powerful trolls are discovered and become the leaders of their tribes. This obsession with fighting pervades even their reactions to outsiders: if a non-troll challenges a troll to a weaponless brawl, all hostilities between the parties cease until the fight ends.

Would an unarmed single combat against a troll be a fair challenge, and if so, for what level? If you can think of a particular build that would be useful against this, what would it be?

[bc56]

Monk, way of the 4 elements, so you can get some sort of fire ability. Don't know what level.

[Potato_Priest]

Although a totally unoptimized choice for almost anything else, the Storm path (desert) Barbarian from Xanathar's guide would excel here since they deal a small amount of reliable fire damage every round.

[danpit2991]

trolls are weak sauce ron freaking weasley took one out his first year at hogwarts

[Afrodactyl]

Anything that can deal fire damage whilst unarmed, and maaaybe a barbarian if it can withstand a slugging match.

Potentially taking an average of 25 damage per turn would not be fun for most PCs.

[Arvin Natsuko]

An unarmed level 5 wizard can Fly and Firebolt the troll til death no problem... :smallwink:

[Ivor_The_Mad]

In my campaign, trolls have a very defined society based on brawling. In a single combat with no weapons, the most powerful trolls are discovered and become the leaders of their tribes. This obsession with fighting pervades even their reactions to outsiders: if a non-troll challenges a troll to a weaponless brawl, all hostilities between the parties cease until the fight ends.

Would an unarmed single combat against a troll be a fair challenge, and if so, for what level? If you can think of a particular build that would be useful against this, what would it be?

Well if you remember a few weeks ago in Tomb of Horrors the troll battle that one of my characters had? He was 13th level weretiger fighter and he did fine.

[Unoriginal]

If it's the only encounter of the day, I think you're looking for a 7-8th level character, probably a Monk.

[Wryte]

A few more clarifying questions:

Is armor allowed?
Is magic allowed?
When does the fight end? Is it to the death? To yield? To the pain? Ring out?

[No brains]

A few more clarifying questions:

Is armor allowed?
Is magic allowed?
When does the fight end? Is it to the death? To yield? To the pain? Ring out?

Even though trolls are chaotic evil, it's probably good to define what counts as 'armed' and 'cheating'.

Is it a race to see who can get the other to 0 HP faster? Do the trolls brawl for days until exhaustion rules come into play? Can respect still be earned for going the distance and fighting without fear?

Another point to bring up is whether the troll's natural weapons count as cheating. You did say 'brawling' so some form of blunt impact is implied. The odds could be significantly evened if a PC had the skill to convince a troll to either forgo or take up a weapon that favors the PC. A troll's unarmed strike still does 1+str damage.

In fact, since this is a kind of social challenge, persuasion, deception, and intimidation could probably be used at different points in the challenge. Not only to decide on what's fair for the duel, but also to convince the troll to give up at a certain point. A PC with expertise in a social skill might be able to solve this fight sooner than anyone else.

[JackPhoenix]

Troll brawling sounds like it should take advantage of troll regeneration. They do not just try to dominate each other, they'll try to literally tear each other apart. Going into that with non-regenerating character doesn't sound like a good idea.

[LeonBH]

A Light Cleric can cast Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and Burning Hands. I think he can handle that troll just fine.

[trctelles]

If magic is allowed, I think most casters would be just fine at soloing it. If not, I think maybe a Paladin Smite-punching COULD work, but I would put my best bet on the Monk, since they don't really need weapons to do consistent damage. Maybe some other class with a race that give natural weapons, like the Lizardfolk, Tabaxi or Tortle, the Lizardfolk beign the best one of the three, since you get 1d6+STR as unarmed attack, Natural Armor and you can use Hungry Jaws to get a bit of extra tankiness and damage.

As other people said, Storm Herald is great if you take the Fire Aura, but I think the class in itself is not great, and Fire Aura is the worst of them all, since a LOT of other monsters have resistance to fire. You would have to build just for this one brawl, and I don't think thats very wise...

In the end of the day, monk is really the only class that is made for this kind of battles (if you can't cast spells/cantrips)

[Alderic78]

Moon Druid would probably work too, I doubt the trolls are going to complain about claws and bites... unless the fight is really about unarmed attacks, in which case Monk wins easily.
As for level... I don't have the stats for a troll atm, so no idea.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Here are the troll stats for those who don't have them.
Troll
Large giant, chaotic evil
Armor Class 15 (natural armor) Hit Points 84 (8d10 + 40) Speed 30 ft.
STR 18 (+4)
DEX 13 (+1)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 7 (- 2)
WIS 9 (- 1)
CHA 7 (-2)
Skills Perception +1
Senses darkvision 60ft., passive Perception 11 Languages Giant
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP)
Keen Smell. The troll has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Regeneration. The troll regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn. If the troll takes acid or fire damage, this trait doesn't function at the start of the troll's next turn. The troll dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn't regenerate.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. The troll makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.

Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slash ing damage.

[JackPhoenix]

In the end of the day, monk is really the only class that is made for this kind of battles (if you can't cast spells/cantrips)

Druid, actually. Primal Savagery involves biting and clawing, has only somatic component, so trolls propably won't notice you've cast a spell, and causes acid damage. The change of damage type was weird, but it looks as if the cantrip was re-designed for this exact scenario

[Lvl 2 Expert]

If a troll is CR5 it should under normal circumstances be a regular challenge for 4 lvl 5 characters, 2 lvl 7's or 1 lvl 9. An unarmed brawl is probably going to push that balance around a bit in the troll's favor. So say lvl 10. Maybe even higher if this is a particularly impressive champion troll. You can bring it back down again by letting the party pick who fights, making the rules such that they don't in the least need fire or acid to win and by plain not minding it will be a hard encounter. If your players optimize that helps bring it down as well. It could probably go as low as level 6 without too much trouble. So where on that scale it sits depends entirely on factors not included in the brief premise.

[trctelles]

Druid, actually. Primal Savagery involves biting and clawing, has only somatic component, so trolls propably won't notice you've cast a spell, and causes acid damage. The change of damage type was weird, but it looks as if the cantrip was re-designed for this exact scenario
I fail to see how Primal Savagery is not a cantrip. If you read the final part of my post, you can see I specifically say IF YOU CAN'T CAST SPELLS/CANTRIPS. It has somatic components, so it count as casting, as far as I can tell. It all depends on how the rules will be set by the DM. I wouldn't go as far as "oh, they just might not notice it, so it's K".

As it seems, in his campaign Trolls have a society, so they might have encountered a caster or two, or have some of their own. So I think you're counting too much on NOT A SINGLE ONE of the trolls that will be watching the fight won't scream "hey, he's using magic, that's cheating! Kill them all".

Also, OP just left a very generic question, with no information on how the thing will go

[the_brazenburn]

I fail to see how Primal Savagery is not a cantrip. If you read the final part of my post, you can see I specifically say IF YOU CAN'T CAST SPELLS/CANTRIPS. It has somatic components, so it count as casting, as far as I can tell. It all depends on how the rules will be set by the DM. I wouldn't go as far as "oh, they just might not notice it, so it's K".

As it seems, in his campaign Trolls have a society, so they might have encountered a caster or two, or have some of their own. So I think you're counting too much on NOT A SINGLE ONE of the trolls that will be watching the fight won't scream "hey, he's using magic, that's cheating! Kill them all".

They have a society, but it's a loose society. They're still CE, and won't pay much attention to cheaters.

[JackPhoenix]

I fail to see how Primal Savagery is not a cantrip. If you read the final part of my post, you can see I specifically say IF YOU CAN'T CAST SPELLS/CANTRIPS. It has somatic components, so it count as casting, as far as I can tell. It all depends on how the rules will be set by the DM. I wouldn't go as far as "oh, they just might not notice it, so it's K".

As it seems, in his campaign Trolls have a society, so they might have encountered a caster or two, or have some of their own. So I think you're counting too much on NOT A SINGLE ONE of the trolls that will be watching the fight won't scream "hey, he's using magic, that's cheating! Kill them all".

Asuming they understand the guy flailing his arms around before he bites the troll he's grappling with is actually casting a spell. Even if they've encountered casters before, it's different from a wizard standing there, mumbling some words while also flailing his hands full of bat **** around before Fireballs starts flying.

Trolls are dumb.

[MeeposFire]

They have a society, but it's a loose society. They're still CE, and won't pay much attention to cheaters.

I would not count on that. Being CE I would be that they care very much about cheating when it hurts them and are very willing to ignore it when it benefits them. In this case it benefits them to probably not ignore it especailly if it gives them an excuse to attack en mass.

[Quoz]

If the fight is just to a decisive victory, probably lvl 2+. A barbarian/rogue with rage and expertise in Athletics should be able to prone and grapple a troll and hold it down for quite some time. With just basic point buy you can have +3 Str, double proficiency and advantage while raging. +7 w/ advantage vs +4 for the troll. The troll will have disadvantage on attacks while prone and you have resistance. You can spend the rest of the rage taunting and working the crowd, or using sleight of hand to hog tie the unfortunate troll.

Obviously a few more levels for ASIs, higher proficiency and extra attack make this better. You can't really damage anything but the troll's pride this way. But if you are looking to get accepted by a bunch of trolls, no better way than grabbing one by the nose and dragging it around the ring like a rag doll.

[LeonBH]

The problem with not using a caster is they won't have a way to overcome the troll's regeneration. So the troll won't stay down for long. A Rage lasts a minute, but if the troll isn't dead by then, the Barbarian will be.

[MeeposFire]

The problem with not using a caster is they won't have a way to overcome the troll's regeneration. So the troll won't stay down for long. A Rage lasts a minute, but if the troll isn't dead by then, the Barbarian will be.

Well assuming the trolls play by the rules (which is a big if of course) then to the death will not be needed. Remember if two trolls fight for dominance they will not kill each other no matter how hard they try so unless the trolls change the rules (and it sounds like this is important to them so hopefully not) the character need just defeat the troll not have to kill it.

Of course with gaining back 10hp per round being able to stop that will make your job much easier.

[Malifice]

Well if you remember a few weeks ago in Tomb of Horrors the troll battle that one of my characters had? He was 13th level weretiger fighter and he did fine.

Im surprised you didnt castrate the troll and/or impregnate it.

[Unoriginal]

Trolls are dumb.

Trolls aren't that dumb.

INT 7 is lower than human average, but not that low.

[JackPhoenix]

Trolls aren't that dumb.

INT 7 is lower than human average, but not that low.

If you consider standard array, Int 7 is lower than possible human minimum. That's for PCs, obviously, but even commoners have 10's across the board.

[Unoriginal]

If you consider standard array, Int 7 is lower than possible human minimum. That's for PCs, obviously, but even commoners have 10's across the board.

Because Commoners are average everywhere. Though human Commoners have 11 everywhere, to be 100% accurate.

Point is, while 7 INT isn't bright, the beings with 7 INT in the MM aren't portrayed as completly stupid.

[Alderic78]

So, somewhere in between rock and a vase ?
I'd say it's pretty bad when a dumb player character (who now can't have less than 8 int) is still smarter than you.

That said, how smart do they need to be to figure out someting odd is going on when an ousider says some strange words and makes some odd gestures, and suddenly flames appear ?

If you want to cast a spell sublty in front of an audience... better do it "Sublty"

Money is still on the druid or monk.

I'll avoid the barbarian with the fire stuff... he might be disqualified for bringing a lethal weapon to a brawl.

[No brains]

Because Commoners are average everywhere. Though human Commoners have 11 everywhere, to be 100% accurate.

Point is, while 7 INT isn't bright, the beings with 7 INT in the MM aren't portrayed as completly stupid.

But Trolls don't just have 7 INT, they also have 9 WIS and 7 CHA. They aren't accustomed to any kind of thinking. Even Orcs have decent WIS and CHA. Trolls are beneath Kobolds in thinking power and are only slightly above Slaad. They are only vaguely wittier than Ogres and Hill Giants. In empirical standards among sapient creatures in 5e, Trolls are dumb.

A point can also be made that Trolls are dumb beyond their stats because they don't use any ranged weapon option, even though other creatures of similar dumbness can resort to slings, javelins, or unassisted rocks. Their extra points in INT versus Hill Giants and Ogres might just be a balance point. If their saves against spells are trash and they have no way to stay out of those spells, their might isn't going to amount to anything.

Should one choose to cheat in a fight with a Troll, not only might they not notice that a spell is different from any thrashing or snarling in a fight (WIS), they might not correlate the weird affect with their opponent's power (INT), and even if they do, they may not be able to make a clear case to other Trolls that they were cheated (CHA). Cheating in a fight with a Troll is an open door with a derelict guard who's having an audibly bad time the bathroom.

[Christian]

To the pain?
Frankly, I think the odds are slightly in the troll's favor at hand fighting.

[Estoma]

No advice on the character here but a word of warning: unarmed fights take a very long time! My fighter and an NPC barbarian spent so long slogging away at each other in a fighting ring that it just got boring (until she straddled him and I rolled a Nat 20 charisma check). Our DM ended up multiplying our attack damage to make it go along a bit faster. Depending on your level, it’ll take a long time to burn through HP. Maybe consider something like that :)