A Song of Dice and Fire: Statistics for Game of Thrones Characters [Archive]

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the_brazenburn

2018-02-06, 02:18 PM

My favorite books of all time have been the Song of Ice and Fire saga, and I've always wanted them adapted to D&D. Inspired by Zonugal's stats for Marvel superheroes and Star Wars characters, I've made the stats myself, and share them with you here. Let me know which one you want me to do next.

Disclaimer: I have never watched the show, only read the books. If you disagree with my interpretation of a character's class, alignment, or any such thing, please alert me below in a calm and civil manner. Also let me know if there is something wrong with the stats, or if you really like this.

Jon Snow
Medium humanoid (human), neutral good

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 15
Languages: Common, Wildling, White Walker
Saves: Strength +6, Dex +4
Skills: Athletics +6, Survival, Perception, Insight, Animal Handling +5, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth +2

STR 16 (+3), DEX 13 (+1), CON 15 (+2), INT 11(+0), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 11 (+0)
AC 17 (scale, shield)
HP 52 (7d10+14)
CR 5

Primeval Awareness: Once per day, Jon Snow can sense whether aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fiends, fey, or undead are present within 1 mile of him.

Improved Critical: Jon Snow’s weapon attacks score critical hits on a 19 or 20.

Actions:
Multiattack: Jon Snow makes two attacks with Longclaw or two attacks with his longbow.
Longclaw (+1 Longsword): +7 to hit, 10 (1d8+6) slashing damage, or 9 (1d10+4) slashing damage if wielded with two hands.
Longbow: +4 to hit, 5 (1d8+1) piercing damage.

Jon Snow has Ghost, a direwolf that he can command to take an action as a bonus action on his turn.

Arya Stark
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic neutral

Speed: 30 feet
Senses: Darkvision 120 feet, Passive Perception 15
Languages: Common, Braavosi, Thieves’ Cant
Saves: Dexterity +7, Intelligence +4
Skills: Acrobatics, Stealth +10, Sleight of Hand +7, Insight, Perception, Deception +5

STR 11 (+0), DEX 18 (+4), CON 10 (+0), INT 12 (+1), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 15 (+2)
AC 14
HP 31 (7d8)
CR 5

Sneak Attack: If Arya hits an opponent who is adjacent to an ally of Arya’s or has advantage on the attack roll, she deals an additional 10 (3d6) damage.

Assassinate: Arya has advantage on attack rolls against any opponent who hasn’t taken an action yet in combat. In addition, any hit she scores against surprised opponents is a critical hit.

Spellcasting:
Arya is a 2nd level spellcaster (+5 to spell attacks, save DC 13). She knows the following spells from the warlock list.
At will: Disguise Self, Blade Ward, True Strike
1st level (2 slots): Shield, Wrathful Smite, Hex

Actions:
Needle (+1 Rapier): +7 to hit, 8 (1d8+4) piercing damage.

Bonus Actions:
Cunning Action: Arya can take use her bonus action to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action.

Baleful Curse: Once per day, Arya can place a curse on an opponent within 30 feet, which lasts for 1 minute. While cursed, Arya gains +3 to damage rolls against the target, and any attack roll against the target is a critical hit on a 19 or 20. If the target dies, Arya regains 4 hit points.

Reactions:
Uncanny Dodge: If Arya is hit by an attack, she can use her reaction to half the attack’s damage.

Eddard Stark
Medium humanoid (human), lawful good

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 15
Languages: Common, High Valyrian, Rhoynar
Saves: Str +7, Con +6
Skills: Athletics +6, Perception, Persuasion +5, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth +3, History +2

STR 17 (+3), DEX 12 (+1), CON 16 (+3), INT 9 (-1), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 14 (+2)
AC 17 (chain mail)
HP 68 (8d10+24)
CR 7

Improved Critical: Eddard’s weapon attacks score critical hits on a 19 or 20.

Second Wind: Once per day, Eddard can use a bonus action to draw healing energy from his stamina, regaining 13 (1d10+8) hit points.

Action Surge: Once per day, Eddard can take an extra action on his turn.

Actions:
Multiattack: Eddard makes two attacks with Ice.
Ice (+2 Greatsword): +9 to hit, 13 (2d6+6) slashing damage.

Ser Barristan Selmy
Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 11
Languages: Common, Rhoynar
Saves: Wis +5, Cha +6
Skills: Athletics +7, Intimidation, Persuasion +6, Insight +5, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth +3

STR 16 (+3), DEX 12 (+1), CON 14 (+2), INT 12 (+1), WIS 12 (+1), CHA 15 (+2)
AC 17 (half plate, shield)
HP 75 (10d10+20)
CR 7

Improved Critical: Selmy’s weapon attacks score critical hits on a 19 or 20.

Divine Sense: Three times per day, Barristan can use a bonus action to sense the location of any celestial, fiend, or undead, in addition to any land that has been consecrated or desecrated, within 60 feet of him. He knows the type of that creature or land, but not its specific identity.

Divine Aura: Selmy and any of his allies within 10 feet of him gain the following benefits:
They gain a +2 bonus to saving throws (included in Selmy’s stat block), can’t be frightened, are immune to disease. In addition, each round, one of them, chosen by Selmy, regains 5 (1d6+2) hit points. Any enemies in the aura can’t move more than 30 feet away from you unless they make a Wisdom save. If an ally in the aura takes damage, Barristan can use his reaction to take the damage himself.

Actions:
Multiattack: Barristan makes two attacks with his longsword.
Longsword: +7 to hit, 8 (1d8+4) slashing + 4 (1d8) radiant damage.

Lay on Hands: Barristan restores hit points to a creature. He has a pool of 50 hit points, and can restore them in any combination. Selmy regains all spent hit points at the next dawn.

Strong Belwas
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic neutral

Speed: 40 feet
Passive Perception 10
Languages: Common, Ghishan
Saves: Str +8, Con +7
Skills: Athletics +8, Intimidation, Performance, Acrobatics +6

STR 18 (+4), DEX 14 (+2), CON 20 (+5), INT 8 (-1), WIS 10 (+0), CHA 14 (+2)
AC 17 (natural armor, shield)
HP 93 (9d12+35)
CR 7

Rage: Four times per day, Belwas can enter a rage that lasts for 1 minute. While raging, Belwas has advantage on initiative rolls, Strength checks and Strength saving throws, can’t be charmed, surprised or frightened, and has resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. In addition, he can make an extra attack each turn as a bonus action and gains a +3 bonus to damage rolls (included in the attack). When his rage ends, Belwas gains one level of exhaustion.

Reckless Attack: When Belwas attacks, he can choose to attack recklessly. If he does so, he gains advantage on the attack roll, but attack rolls against him have advantage until his next turn.

Danger Sense: Belwas has advantage on Dexterity saves against effects that he can’t see.

Brutal Critical: Belwas deals an additional 9 (2d8) damage on a critical hit, rather than the ordinary amount.

Actions:
Multiattack: Belwas makes three attacks with his arakh.
Arakh: +8 to hit, 11 (1d8+7) slashing damage.

Sandor Clegane
Medium humanoid (human), neutral

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 16
Languages: Common, Rhoynar
Saves: Str +7, Con +6
Skills: Athletics +7, Perception, Insight +6, Intimidation +2

STR 18 (+4), DEX 14 (+2), CON 16 (+3), INT 10 (+0), WIS 16 (+3), CHA 8 (-1)
AC 17 (chainmail, shield)
HP 51 (6d10+18)
CR 4

Improved Critical: Clegane scores a critical hit on an attack roll of 19 or 20.

Second Wind: Once per day, Clegane can use a bonus action to draw healing energy from his stamina, regaining 11 (1d10+6) hit points.

Action Surge: Once per day, Clegane can take an extra action on his turn.

Actions:
Multiattack: Clegane makes two attacks with his longsword.
Longsword: +6 to hit, 7 (1d8+3) slashing damage.

Gregor Clegane
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic evil

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 16
Languages: Common, Rhoynar
Saves: Str +12, Dex +3, Con +10, Int +3, Wis +5, Cha +4
Skills: Athletics +9, Perception, Insight +6, Intimidation +5

STR 20 (+5), DEX 10 (+0), CON 18 (+4), INT 10 (+0), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 12 (+1)
AC 16 (chain mail)
HP 104 (11d10+44)
CR 8

Second Wind: Once per day, Clegane can use a bonus action to draw healing energy from his stamina, regaining 11 (1d10+6) hit points.

Action Surge: Once per day, Clegane can take an extra action on his turn.

Indomitable: Once per day, Clegane can reroll a failed saving throw and must use the new roll.

Actions:
Multiattack: Clegane makes three attacks with his greatsword.
Greatsword: +9 to hit, 15 (2d6+1d4+5) slashing damage.

Shae
Medium humanoid (human), neutral

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 10
Languages: Common
Skills: Deception, Persuasion +3, Insight +2

STR 10 (+0), DEX 10 (+0), CON 10 (+0), INT 10 (+0), WIS 10 (+0), CHA 12 (+1)
AC 10
HP 4 (1d8)
CR 0

Actions:
Unarmed Strike: 1 bludgeoning damage

Oberyn Martell
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic neutral

Speed: 45 feet
Passive Perception 11
Languages: Common, Dornish, High Valyrian
Saves: Str +6, Dex +8
Skills: Acrobatics +12, Persuasion +11, Stealth +8, Insight, History +5

STR 12 (+2), DEX 18 (+4), CON 14 (+2), INT 12 (+1), WIS 12 (+1), CHA 16 (+3)
AC 17
HP 71 (11d8+22)
CR 11

Evasion: If Oberyn succeeds on a Dexterity saving throw and would take half damage, he instead takes no damage. If he fails, he only takes half damage.

Dornish Skill: Oberyn has 8 skill points. He can use his skill points for the following benefits:
Flurry of Blows: Oberyn can spend one skill point to make two extra attacks on his turn.
Patient Defense: Oberyn can use one skill point to give attack rolls disadvantage against him for one round.
Step of the Wind: Oberyn can spend one ki point to increase his speed by 45 feet for one round.
Stunning Strike: Oberyn can spend one ki point to force an opponent that he hits to make a DC 15 Constitution save or be stunned for one round.
Precise Strike: Oberyn can use one ki point to deal an additional 3 (1d6) damage on his attack.

Sneak Attack: If Oberyn has advantage on his attack roll or attacks an opponent adjacent to an ally of his, he deals an extra 7 (2d6) damage.

Assassinate: Oberyn has advantage against any enemy who hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit against a surprised enemy is a critical hit.

Actions:
Multiattack: Oberyn makes three attacks with his spear.
Spear: +8 to hit, 8 (1d8+4) piercing damage + 16 (3d10) poison damage.
Still Mind: Oberyn causes one effect that is making him charmed or frightened.

Reactions:
Deflect Missiles: Oberyn reduces the damage taken from a ranged attack by 17 (1d10+12).
Slow Fall: Oberyn reduces any falling damage he takes by 40.

Daenerys Targaryen
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic good

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception
Languages: Common, High Valyrian, Draconic
Saves: Con +2, Cha +2
Skills: Persuasion +5, History +4, Insight, Animal Handling +3

STR 8 (-1), DEX 13 (+1), CON 10 (+0), INT 14 (+2), WIS 12 (+1), CHA 17 (+3)
AC 14
HP 18 (4d6+4)
CR 4

Mother of Dragons (+6 to attacks, DC 14):
At will: Fire Bolt, Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights, Message, Mage Hand
1st (4): Burning Hands, Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile
2nd (3): Scorching Ray, Dragon's Breath, Hold Person
3rd (3) Fireball, Fly

Blood and Fire: Daenerys has 6 dragon points, which she regains each dawn. Daenerys can spend the points in the following ways:
Daenerys can spend 2 points to create a 1st level draconic slot, 3 for a 2nd level, or 5 for a 3rd.
Daenerys can spend one dragon point after she rolls damage for a dragon effect to reroll 3 of the dice. She must use the new rolls.
Daenerys can spend one dragon point to cause a dragon effect that only targets one person to target two.
Daenerys can spend one dragon point to gain resistance to fire damage for 1 hour.

Fire Affinity: Whenever Daenerys deals fire damage, it deals an additional 3 damage.

Actions:
Dagger: +4 to hit, 3 (1d4+1) piercing damage.

Bran Stark
Medium humanoid (human), neutral good

Speed: 5 feet
Senses: Passive Perception 15, Darkvision 120 feet
Languages: Common, Rhoynar, Sylvan, Telepathy 30 feet
Saves: Wis +7, Cha +5
Skills:, Perception +7, History, Religion, Persuasion +5

STR 11 (+0), DEX 9 (-1), CON 13 (+1), INT 15 (+2), WIS 18 (+4), CHA 14 (+2)
AC 9
HP 27 (5d8+5)
CR 2

Spellcasting:
Bran is a 5th level spellcaster (+7 to spell attacks, save DC 15). He knows the following spells from the warlock list.
At will: Speak with Animals, Detect Magic, Friends, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion
3rd level (2 slots): Dissonant Whispers, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, Detect Thoughts, Clairvoyance, Sending, Suggestion

Actions:
Club: +3 to hit, 2 (1d4) bludgeoning damage.

Bran has the direwolf Summer as a familiar. He can see through Summer’s eyes, and can forego his attack to allow Summer to make an extra attack.

Tyrion Lannister
Small humanoid (human), chaotic good

Speed: 25 feet
Senses: Passive Perception 15
Languages: Common, Rhoynar, High Valyrian
Saves: Dex +2, Cha +6
Skills: Persuasion, History +9, Investigation, Nature, Deception, Religion, Arcana +6, Perception +4

STR 12 (+1), DEX 8 (-1), CON 14 (+2), INT 16 (+3), WIS 13 (+1), CHA 16 (+3)
AC 10 (leather)
HP 45 (7d8+14)
CR 2

Spellcasting:
Tyrion is a 7th level spellcaster (+6 to spell attacks, save DC 14). He knows the following spells from the bard list.
At will: Friends, Vicious Mockery, Blade Ward
1st (4 slots): Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Heroism
2nd (3 slots): Suggestion, Calm Emotions, Detect Thoughts
3rd (3 slots): Nondetection, Tongues, Hypnotic Pattern
4th (1 slot): Compulsion, Freedom of Movement

Dwarf’s Inspiration: Three times per day, Tyrion can use a bonus action to choose one other person within 60 feet of him. Once in the next 10 minutes, that person can add a d8 to an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw that they make, if they are an ally of Tyrion’s. If not, they subtract a d8 from their next attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.

Speech of Rest: Tyrion can spend 20 minutes making an inspirational speech. At the end of the speech, every allied creature that listens to it regains 3 (1d6) hit points.

Actions:
Handaxe: +4 to hit, 4 (1d6+1) slashing damage.
Light Crossbow: +2 to hit, 3 (1d8-1) piercing damage.
Countercharm: Tyrion warns his allies about the dangers of being charmed. For the next 30 minutes, Tyrion and any allied creatures within 30 feet of him have advantage on saving throws against being charmed.

Jaime Lannister
Medium humanoid (human), neutral

Speed: 30 feet
Senses: Passive Perception 14
Languages: Common, Rhoynar
Saves: Str +7, Con +7
Skills: Athletics, Intimidation, Persuasion +6, Perception +4

STR 16 (+3), DEX 16 (+3), CON 16 (+3), INT 13 (+1), WIS 10 (+0), CHA 14 (+2)
AC 19 (half plate)
HP 85 (10d10+30)
CR 7

Second Wind: Once per day, Jaime can use a bonus action to draw healing energy from his stamina, regaining 15 (1d10+10) hit points.

Action Surge: Once per day, Jaime can take an extra action on his turn.

Indomitable: Once per day, Jaime can reroll a failed saving throw and must use the new roll.

Actions:
Multiattack: Jaime makes two attack with his longsword or makes one attack and uses Commander’s Strike once.
Longsword: +5 to hit, 15 (1d8+1d10+5) slashing damage.
Commander’s Strike: An allied creature that can hear Jaime can immediately use its reaction to make an attack. If it hits, its damage increases by 5 (1d10).

Reactions:
Parry: if Jaime is hit by a melee weapon attack, he can choose to parry the blow, reducing the damage by 8 (1d10+3). If it deals no damage, the attack misses.

Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish
Medium humanoid (human), neutral evil

Speed: 30 feet
Senses: Passive Perception
Languages: Common, Rhoynar, High Valyrian, Dornish, Braavosi
Saves: Dex +4, Int +7
Skills: Persuasion, Deception +9, Investigation, History +7, Intimidation +6, Insight +5

STR 9 (-1), DEX 13 (+1), CON 11 (+0), INT 18 (+4), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 17 (+3)
AC 13
HP 36 (8d8)
CR 2

Sneak Attack: If Littlefinger hits an enemy who is 5 feet away from an ally, or if he has advantage on the attack roll, he deals an extra 14 (4d6) damage.

Cunning Action: Littlefinger uses a bonus action to take the Dash, Hide, Help, or Disengage action. If he takes the Help action, he can affect an ally within 30 feet, rather than 5.

Evasion: If Littlefinger is forced to make a Dexterity save against a spell or effect that deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage, or half damage on a failed save.

Actions:
+1 Dagger: +5 to hit, 4 (1d4+2) damage.

Reactions:
Uncanny Dodge: If Littlefinger is hit by an opponent he can see, he can halve the damage dealt to him.

Melisandre
Medium humanoid (human), lawful evil

Speed: 30 feet
Senses: Passive Perception 18
Languages: Common, Celestial, High Valyrian, Pentoshi
Saves: Con +6, Cha +9
Skills: Deception, Insight +9, Religion, Arcana +8

STR 9 (-1), DEX 11 (+0), CON 13 (+1), INT 16 (+3), WIS 17 (+3), CHA 18 (+4)
AC 10
HP 67 (15d6+15)
CR 5

Spellcasting (+9 to attacks, DC 17):
At will: Fire Bolt, Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights, Message, Control Flames, Create Bonfire
1st (4): Burning Hands, Bless, Cure Wounds, Divine Favor
2nd (3): Prayer of Healing, Continual Flame
3rd (3): Revivify, Clairvoyance
4th (3): Divination, Conjure Shadow Demon
5 (2): Immolation, Raise Dead
6 (1): Investiture of Flame
7 (1): Resurrection
8 (1): Sunburst

Eye of the Flame: Melisandre has 15 divine points, which she regains each dawn. Melisandre can spend the points in the following ways:
Melisandre can spend 2 points to create a 1st level spell slot, 3 for a 2nd level, 5 for a 3rd, 6 for a 4th, or 7 for a 5th.
Melisandre can spend one point after she casts a spell with a duration of one minute or longer to double its duration, up to a maximum of 24 hours.
Melisandre can spend one point to cause a spell with only one target to target two targets at once.
Melisandre can spend one point when she casts a spell with verbal or somatic components to cast it without them.
When an ally within 5 feet of Melisandre rolls to determine the number of hit points a spell restores, she can spend one point to reroll any of them once. She can only use this once per round.

Favored By the Gods: When Melisandre fails a saving throw or misses with an attack, she can repeat the roll. Once she has used this feature, she can’t use it again until the next dawn.

Otherworldly Presence: When an opponent makes an attack against Melisandre, they must make a DC 17 saving throw or be frightened for one round. If they fail, they must repeat the save, and on a failure the attack that activated this ability automatically misses.

Actions:
Dagger: +5 to hit, 2 (1d4) damage.

Khal Drogo
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic neutral

Speed: 40 feet
Senses: Passive Perception 18
Languages: Common, Dothraki
Saves: Con +6, Cha +9
Skills: Athletics +8, Intimidation +6, Animal Handling, Survival +4

STR 18 (+4), DEX 13 (+1), CON 15 (+2), INT 9 (-1), WIS 11 (+0), CHA 14 (+2)
AC 13
HP 85 (10d12+20)
CR 5

Rage: Four times per day, Drogo can enter a rage that lasts for 1 minute. While raging, Drogo has advantage on initiative rolls, Strength checks and Strength saving throws, can’t be charmed, surprised or frightened, and has resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. In addition, his movement speed increases to 45 feet and he deals an additional 3 damage on melee attacks (included in the stat).

Reckless Attack: When Drogo attacks, he can choose to attack recklessly. If he does so, he gains advantage on the attack roll, but attack rolls against him have advantage until his next turn.

Danger Sense: Drogo has advantage on Dexterity saves against effects that he can’t see.

Brutal Critical: Drogo deals an additional 9 (2d8) damage on a critical hit, rather than the ordinary amount.

Horse Whisperer: Drogo can cast the spells Beast Sense, Commune with Nature and Speak with Animals as rituals.

Actions:
Multiattack: Drogo makes two attacks with his arakh.
Arakh: +8 to hit, 11 (1d8+7) damage.

nickl_2000

2018-02-06, 02:21 PM

Based on how many times he has come back Beric Dondarrion will need to be Path of the Zealot Barbarian at least level 3 wielding a Flametounge sword.

Mikal

2018-02-06, 02:22 PM

Based on how many times he has come back Beric Dondarrion will need to be Path of the Zealot Barbarian at least level 3 wielding a Flametounge sword.

Actually going by the books that'd be the complete opposite. The entire point of ASoIF resurrection is that there's always a price to pay for it.

nickl_2000

2018-02-06, 02:23 PM

Actually going by the books that'd be the complete opposite. The entire point of ASoIF resurrection is that there's always a price to pay for it.

There is always a price to pay for the person who is brought back to life. There is no price to pay for the person bringing them back to life though (not that I remember at least).

the_brazenburn

2018-02-06, 02:25 PM

Based on how many times he has come back Beric Dondarrion will need to be Path of the Zealot Barbarian at least level 3 wielding a Flametounge sword.

From what I can tell, Dondarrion has been resurrected by Thoros of Myr several times. He could be a Zealot, but I don't think so. The firesword is also the work of Thoros, probably a semi-permanent magic weapon spell.

Mikal

2018-02-06, 02:30 PM

There is always a price to pay for the person who is brought back to life. There is no price to pay for the person bringing them back to life though (not that I remember at least).

Actually, it took quite a bit out of Thoros of Myr as well, weakening him as he did it repeatedly IIRC.
Plus when Beric gave it to Stoneheart he died from it.

Either way, doesn't really fit the whole "resurrect for free" ability the zealot has.

Oramac

2018-02-06, 02:32 PM

Jon Snow
Medium humanoid (human), neutral good

Speed: 30 feet
Passive Perception 15
Languages: Common, Wildling, White Walker
Skills: Athletics +6, Survival, Perception, Insight, Animal Handling +5, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth +2

STR 16 (+3), DEX 13 (+1), CON 15 (+2), INT 11(+0), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 11 (+0)
AC 17 (scale, shield)
HP 52 (7d10+14)
CR 5

Primeval Awareness: Once per day, Jon Snow can sense whether aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fiends, fey, or undead are present within 1 mile of him.

Improved Critical: Jon Snow’s weapon attacks score critical hits on a 19 or 20.

Colossus Slayer: If Jon Snow hits an opponent that has less than its hit point maximum with a weapon attack, it takes an additional 4 (1d8) damage.

Steel Will: Jon Snow has advantage on saving throws against being frightened.

Actions:
Multiattack: Jon Snow makes two attacks with Longclaw or two attacks with his longbow.
Longclaw (+1 Longsword): +7 to hit, 10 (1d8+6) slashing damage, or 9 (1d10+4) slashing damage if wielded with two hands.
Longbow: +4 to hit, 5 (1d8+1) piercing damage.

Looks good. My only [slight] criticism would be that I don't ever recall Snow using a shield. Maybe he did in the books. I never read them. But in the show, I don't think he ever did.

I'd say Littlefinger would have to be a Mastermind Rogue. Tyrion Lannister, maybe a Halfling Bard? Not sure.

nickl_2000

2018-02-06, 02:35 PM

Actually, it took quite a bit out of Thoros of Myr as well, weakening him as he did it repeatedly IIRC.
Plus when Beric gave it to Stoneheart he died from it.

Either way, doesn't really fit the whole "resurrect for free" ability the zealot has.

Fair enough :)

Looks good. My only [slight] criticism would be that I don't ever recall Snow using a shield. Maybe he did in the books. I never read them. But in the show, I don't think he ever did.

I'd say Littlefinger would have to be a Mastermind Rogue. Tyrion Lannister, maybe a Halfling Bard? Not sure.

That seems decent for Tyrion in my mind, considering that one Tyrion's more famous lines from the show is (paraphrased) "It's what I do, I drink and I know stuff"

the_brazenburn

2018-02-06, 02:38 PM

Looks good. My only [slight] criticism would be that I don't ever recall Snow using a shield. Maybe he did in the books. I never read them. But in the show, I don't think he ever did.

I'd say Littlefinger would have to be a Mastermind Rogue. Tyrion Lannister, maybe a Halfling Bard? Not sure.

Honestly, I can't remember if Snow used a shield. I assumed he sometimes did, based on common logic and the tradition of the time, but it's not necessarily true.

I agree with your analysis of Littlefinger and Tyrion, except that the Imp is technically a horribly deformed human, not a halfling. I might be willing to compromise on a dwarf, based on his use of an axe in the first book.

Varys the Spider is an Inquisitive Rogue/ Whispers Bard for sure.

Mikal

2018-02-06, 02:41 PM

Fair enough :)

You bring up fair points too though, in that does change the Resurrection mechanic. it's just an opinion thing after all.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-06, 02:41 PM

So far, I've got Jon Snow, and I'll be working on Eddard Stark and Daenarys Targaryen next.

Quite a way to go then!

I'd like to see Melisandre of Asshai statted up as a Light Cleric 1 / Shadow Sorcerer X. As one of very few genuine spellcasters in the setting, I think she'd be worth doing.

nickl_2000

2018-02-06, 02:46 PM

What about Arya Stark?

Straight up Rogue Assassin?
Does she need Warlock to get the Mask of Many Faces invocations?
Kensai Monk?

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-06, 03:00 PM

I think straight assassin works for Arya. The face thing could be represented by Magic Initiate for disguise self.

nickl_2000

2018-02-06, 03:13 PM

I think straight assassin works for Arya. The face thing could be represented by Magic Initiate for disguise self.

That would do the trick. Do you think she is all the way up to level 14 to have gotten Blindsense? She shows this when she is training in the temple and loses her eyes.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-06, 03:15 PM

Hard to say. I don't really remember that part very clearly - it's been years since I read A Dance with Dragons. Didn't she cheat the blind training by warging into cats, though?

Zardnaar

2018-02-06, 03:17 PM

What about Arya Stark?

Straight up Rogue Assassin?
Does she need Warlock to get the Mask of Many Faces invocations?
Kensai Monk?

Rogue:Assassin with a custom feat exclusive to members of the B/W house.

Most of them would not be over level 4-8.

white lancer

2018-02-06, 03:23 PM

strangebloke

2018-02-06, 03:44 PM

The unfortunate thing about this is that given the lack of true spellcasters (aside from Melisandre), most of these will have to be fairly typical martial classes, mostly Fighters. A few ideas:

Jaime/Oberyn - Battlemaster Fighter
Brienne/Barristan - Oath of Devotion Paladin (without the spells)
Robert - Champion Fighter
Gregor - Frenzy Barbarian
Sandor - Champion Fighter?
Robb and Eddard - Hunter Ranger
Bran - Divination Wizard
Bronn - Could see Ranger or Battlemaster

The other problem is that a lot of the important characters have little or no demonstrated fighting ability (Varys, Littlefinger, Cersei, Catelyn, Daenerys, Tyrion to an extent). So while thematically a Rogue or Bard might fit Varys, for instance, the abilities won't really be close.

I'd actually stat barristan as a swashbuckling rogue:
He's very much so portrayed as 'skilled' as opposed to 'strong' which is more of a DEX build thing. He is a very dangerous man with or without his armor.
His nickname, "Barristan the Bold" just screams swashbuckler to me.
Moreso than Jaimie or the Hound, he's valued for his knowledge, skill and political acumen. He runs a complex PR campaign against the Smiling Knight.

I'd stat him as a Swashbuckler in Medium armor with mediocre STR but decent INT and good CHA.

Bran to me feels more like a GOOlock. Telepathy, mind control like effects...

Actually I think most of the casters work better as warlocks. Forbidden knowledge, they only get a few spells that are nonetheless powerful...

Side note: shouldn't Jon be a beastmaster?

the_brazenburn

2018-02-06, 03:46 PM

Side note: shouldn't Jon be a beastmaster?

Argh! I'm so stupid. I'll fix that right away.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-06, 03:59 PM

Bran to me feels more like a GOOlock. Telepathy, mind control like effects...

Actually I think most of the casters work better as warlocks. Forbidden knowledge, they only get a few spells that are nonetheless powerful...

Hmm. Bran and Jojen are an interesting issue. They're certainly not wizards, so diviner is out. The greensight seems to be something you're born with, but the flavour is somewhat Lovecraftian... I would say though that Bran's transformation under Bloodraven could be represented by a warlock pact. You very much got the impression that he was signing his life away when he first drank the weirwood paste.

Vogie

2018-02-06, 04:47 PM

I would build Arya, mechanically as

Ranger 2 / Undying Warlock 2 / Assassin Rogue 3

The first is taught to her by Syrio Forel: Dueling Fighting Style & Favored Enemy: Humanoids
Invocations: Mask of Many Faces & Gaze of Two Minds (slightly modified to allow non-humanoids)

That allows her to see through a cat, gives her the spare the dying cantrip (as part of the house of black and white, to be the "white" to contrast the "black" of Assassin training), and the ability to steal faces at will.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-06, 05:17 PM

It seems like there's been a lot of demand for Arya, so I'll build her next and save Eddard for another day.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-06, 05:20 PM

Yeah, the sooner you build Ned, the sooner people will start killing him again. Give the guy a break... :smalltongue:

white lancer

2018-02-06, 05:27 PM

I'd actually stat barristan as a swashbuckling rogue:
He's very much so portrayed as 'skilled' as opposed to 'strong' which is more of a DEX build thing. He is a very dangerous man with or without his armor.
His nickname, "Barristan the Bold" just screams swashbuckler to me.
Moreso than Jaimie or the Hound, he's valued for his knowledge, skill and political acumen. He runs a complex PR campaign against the Smiling Knight.

I'd stat him as a Swashbuckler in Medium armor with mediocre STR but decent INT and good CHA.

Bran to me feels more like a GOOlock. Telepathy, mind control like effects...

Yeah, I agree on Bran, come to think of it. I actually thought a bit about Druid for him because his powers are nature-themed, but it fits flavorfully without actually fitting mechanically very well.

Feels weird to give one of the most honorable people in the series the Rogue class--Sneak Attack just doesn't fit Barristan at all IMO. If we wanted to focus more on skill/Dex than on strength (which makes some sense, though I do feel like he'd be in heavy armor), you could make him a Battlemaster Fighter. The maneuvers really capture the feeling of a skilled fighter to me as opposed to the brute force of the Champion (hence the Battlemaster Jaime vs. Champion Hound in my original post).

Come to think of it, though, the Swashbuckler seems to fit Bronn pretty well...

the_brazenburn

2018-02-06, 05:32 PM

Yeah, I agree on Bran, come to think of it. I actually thought a bit about Druid for him because his powers are nature-themed, but it fits flavorfully without actually fitting mechanically very well.

Feels weird to give one of the most honorable people in the series the Rogue class--Sneak Attack just doesn't fit Barristan at all IMO. If we wanted to focus more on skill/Dex than on strength (which makes some sense, though I do feel like he'd be in heavy armor), you could make him a Battlemaster Fighter. The maneuvers really capture the feeling of a skilled fighter to me as opposed to the brute force of the Champion (hence the Battlemaster Jaime vs. Champion Hound in my original post).

Come to think of it, though, the Swashbuckler seems to fit Bronn pretty well...

I think Bran is a Nature cleric with a bunch of divination spells. I'll probably wait a while before making him; he seems a bit too complex.

Barristan is probably a Crown paladin without spells. I can't picture him as a rogue at all.

Bronn will probably end up a Champion/Swahbuckler. He relies equally on strength and dexterity, and I definitely think a multiclass fits his mechanics.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-06, 07:07 PM

Foe Barristan, when fighting at the end of Dance with Dragons, he takes on a much younger and faster foe by letting his plate armor do most of the work for him, actively parrying with his longsword only the blows that would be effective against his armor. Heavy Armor Master feat or Defense Fighting Style makes sense to me.

Probably a fighter imho. like a Battlemaster or Banneret. Oath of the Crown sans spells would certainly work too.

hamishspence

2018-02-06, 07:14 PM

Feels weird to give one of the most honorable people in the series the Rogue class--Sneak Attack just doesn't fit Barristan at all IMO.

"Sneaking around" as well as disguises, on the other hand, is something he's surprisingly good at, in his backstory. He snuck into Darklyn Castle and rescued an imprisoned Aerys II. And in the "present day" he disguises himself as a squire for Strong Belwas (novel-verse).

Vogie

2018-02-06, 09:06 PM

I'd like to see Melisandre of Asshai statted up as a Light Cleric 1 / Shadow Sorcerer X. As one of very few genuine spellcasters in the setting, I think she'd be worth doing.

I think Divine Soul Sorcerer would work. That way she can get both Conjure Shadow Demon (UA) and Raise dead.

I think Bran is a Nature cleric with a bunch of divination spells. I'll probably wait a while before making him; he seems a bit too complex.

The only class & Subclass who looks like that can get Dominate Person, Dominate Beast, AND Scrying is GOO Warlock. Gaze of Two Minds will also fit. I wish there was some way to get the Visions of the Past bonus (knowledge Cleric) on another blend, though...

Malifice

2018-02-06, 09:17 PM

Based on how many times he has come back Beric Dondarrion will need to be Path of the Zealot Barbarian at least level 3 wielding a Flametounge sword.

Nope just a fighter.

Thoross can cast Raise Dead as a ritual (in SoFandI this drains the recepient of 2 points of Con and Cha each time its cast taking a shard of both spirit and body) without resorting to any material components.

Eric Diaz

2018-02-06, 09:25 PM

Oberyn - Battlemaster Fighter

Needs monk to be able to finesse a spear IMO.

EDIT: oh man, 5e has 500 spells but not 50 melee weapons. I don't know if it would be the best fit for GoT. Not that GoT is about melee weapons...

The other problem is that a lot of the important characters have little or no demonstrated fighting ability (Varys, Littlefinger, Cersei, Catelyn, Daenerys, Tyrion to an extent). So while thematically a Rogue or Bard might fit Varys, for instance, the abilities won't really be close.

Mastermind maybe?

EDIT: I'd think Varys is certainly capable of assassination... Stealth, poison.... Now, I do agree that it would be nice to have a warlord in 5e, but I say that in every thread...

Malifice

2018-02-06, 10:34 PM

Bronn; Swashbuckler.

strangebloke

2018-02-07, 01:21 AM

"Sneaking around" as well as disguises, on the other hand, is something he's surprisingly good at, in his backstory. He snuck into Darklyn Castle and rescued an imprisoned Aerys II. And in the "present day" he disguises himself as a squire for Strong Belwas (novel-verse).

This was my thought. Jamie is a fighter and a tactician, whereas barristan is a bold adventurer with big brass balls. He is as honorable as is possible, but he's an adept liar, disguise artist, and is mostly famous for his clever tricks and narrow escapes. He persuaded the commoners to turn over the smiling Knight. He escaped Kings landing and stole a horse and tracked down Danny a full continent away. He assumed an identity and persuaded some others to go along with his disguise. He rescued arys from captivity using mostly stealth.

Rogues can be honorable. Also, in ASOIAF, anyone can wear plate. Irl, plate isn't something you have to be Hercules to wear. Barristan is an old dog who was never a large man to begin with. I'd put him as a Dex swashbuckler in half plate.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-07, 10:13 AM

Arya Stark is up!

Comment on my interpretation if you see fit, and also if there's somebody you especially want me to do next.

strangebloke

2018-02-07, 11:12 AM

Arya Stark is up!

Comment on my interpretation if you see fit, and also if there's somebody you especially want me to do next.

Our first spellcaster!

IMO the warlock levels aren't necessary; magic initiate should be sufficient. It isn't like she can just spam her disguise ability. That said, the magic you gave her is all about hitting people better and channeling her anger into her fighting which is very consistent with her personality, so it sorta works.

Zonugal

2018-02-07, 11:43 AM

My favorite books of all time have been the Song of Ice and Fire saga, and I've always wanted them adapted to D&D. Inspired by Zonugal's stats for Marvel superheroes and Star Wars characters, I've made the stats myself, and share them with you here.

Hey, that's me!

Good job in here!

I've got some items of my own but I don't want to step on your toes, so keep it up!

white lancer

2018-02-07, 12:11 PM

Needs monk to be able to finesse a spear IMO.

Ooh, monk sounds great for Oberyn! Maybe mix in some levels of Assassin for Cunning Action and poisoner's/disguise kit proficiencies?

This was my thought. Jamie is a fighter and a tactician, whereas barristan is a bold adventurer with big brass balls. He is as honorable as is possible, but he's an adept liar, disguise artist, and is mostly famous for his clever tricks and narrow escapes. He persuaded the commoners to turn over the smiling Knight. He escaped Kings landing and stole a horse and tracked down Danny a full continent away. He assumed an identity and persuaded some others to go along with his disguise. He rescued arys from captivity using mostly stealth.

Rogues can be honorable. Also, in ASOIAF, anyone can wear plate. Irl, plate isn't something you have to be Hercules to wear. Barristan is an old dog who was never a large man to begin with. I'd put him as a Dex swashbuckler in half plate.

We definitely see Barristan a different way, then. I think the Darklyn thing is the exception rather than the rule for him--the Smiling Knight campaign I believe had more to do with Arthur Dayne, his escape of King's Landing basically consisted of him killing the people who stood in his way, and IIRC him tracking down Dany under a false identity was arranged by Illyrio...plus, I don't recall the descriptions of him/his disguise in the book, but I don't imagine the disguise was especially elaborate, since no one in Essos would have reason to suspect that the old man with the stick was a knight from Westeros. It's not like they had pictures of the guy, after all.

What comes to mind to me when I think of Barristan is his confrontation with Khrazz, and what he thinks directly before that is effectively, "screw all these politics and maneuvers, this is what I'm good at." He's a warrior, first and foremost, who occasionally has to engage in politics and tricky maneuvers because of his position (can be represented with reasonable CHA and maybe a Stealth proficiency). When Mero threatens Dany's life, Barristan doesn't strike him by surprise as a Rogue might do--he calls him out and has a straightforward (albeit short) fight. The impression that I got from the books is that he's much more likely to face someone head-on in single combat and beat them simply because he's better and more experienced than they are, because he's the last of the Dayne era of quintessential knights in the series and is the picture of honor. I think the Paladin fits him best thematically, while the Battlemaster might give a better impression of his skill.

Point taken on the plate mail, though. I suppose we shouldn't be beholden to keeping anyone in full plate, since the ASOIAF realm basically would have almost everyone who could afford it wearing full plate (I think even the Ironborn wore it during ship combat?) while D&D has plenty of reasons why you wouldn't. Side note: was Barristan really referred to as not being a large man? I don't remember ever getting the impression that he was smaller/weaker than one would expect a knight to be, just that he was older.

white lancer

2018-02-07, 12:24 PM

Arya as a Warlock seems weird to me at first glance too, but I kinda don't hate it. Obviously the Disguise Self at will invocation is a way to capture the Faceless Men training, and I also like the idea of her marking her targets (i.e. the people on her "list") with spells like Hex and the Baleful Curse. Do think that the Arya of the books especially was not especially charismatic, though maybe it's necessary to have some to give her the ability to deceive easily (maybe she should have the Actor feat)? Could also see her STR/CON being well below average, given that she's 11 or so as of ADWD and is noted to be especially skinny.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-07, 12:24 PM

"screw all these politics and maneuvers, this is what I'm good at." He's a warrior, first and foremost, who occasionally has to engage in politics.

Worth pointing out that this is the default position of every single highborn male in Westeros. The nobility is a warrior cult that disdains pretty much anything that isn't war. Hence why Tywin Lannister is more strongly remembered for his defeats of the Reynes and Tarbecks than for decades of sound fiscal policy as hand of the king.

With that in mind, the fact that Selmy spends 90% of his life doing politics probably should inform his build in D&D. It differentiates him from his peers.

strangebloke

2018-02-07, 12:33 PM

Side note: was Barristan really referred to as not being a large man? I don't remember ever getting the impression that he was smaller/weaker than one would expect a knight to be, just that he was older.

He's not referred to as being large, as to Sandor, Gregor, Hotah, Tormund, Jorah, Brienne, little Walder, Grenn, Duncan the Tall, Belwas, Victarion, Robert, and many others are. He is not described as small either, but most of the good-at-fighting characters are BIG.

I think Loras, Arya, and Syrio Forel are the only good-at-fighting-guys who are described as short or small. Robb, Theon, and Jon probably aren't huge but they haven't hit their mid-twenties yet so that tracks with what we know.

The only guy who might be shorter than Barristan that could possibly beat him in a fight is Jamie, or maybe Oberyn Martell.

I'm guessing the difference in statting we're seeing comes down to how we understand the classes. I don't see rogue as neccesarily the sneaky-dishonorable-indirect type. Particularly the swashbuckler I see as a duelist. An accomplished combatant with a wide base of skill, and the ability to find very punishing hits. Champions and Battlemasters to me are more at home on the front line of a war. Barristan has done that as well, but he's best known for his one-on-one smackdowns and feats of daring.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-07, 12:46 PM

Hey, that's me!

Good job in here!

I've got some items of my own but I don't want to step on your toes, so keep it up!

If you've got some, feel free to attach a link. I don't want the show stolen from me, but I'd obviously appreciate some extra discussion fodder, since I don't plan to write any over the weekends.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-07, 12:53 PM

Rogues can be honorable. Also, in ASOIAF, anyone can wear plate. Irl, plate isn't something you have to be Hercules to wear. Barristan is an old dog who was never a large man to begin with. I'd put him as a Dex swashbuckler in half plate.

Rogues can certainly be honorable.

Anyone in 5e can where full plate too. There are just consequences for not being proficient and having a sufficient strength score.

Also Fighters are not required to be large men, or even have high strength. Barristan fought in Full Plate with a Longsword and was very proficient at doing so.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-07, 01:14 PM

I've seen a lot of debate over Barristan the Bold recently. Want me to do him next?

white lancer

2018-02-07, 01:19 PM

Worth pointing out that this is the default position of every single highborn male in Westeros. The nobility is a warrior cult that disdains pretty much anything that isn't war. Hence why Tywin Lannister is more strongly remembered for his defeats of the Reynes and Tarbecks than for decades of sound fiscal policy as hand of the king.

With that in mind, the fact that Selmy spends 90% of his life doing politics probably should inform his build in D&D. It differentiates him from his peers.

Fair point, but I kinda see Barristan as the most pure example we're given of someone who subscribes to that culture without being horrible. Most of the knights in the series are deconstructions of the knight archetype, but Barristan is mostly played straight. And I think he was involved in politics mostly out of necessity, rather than out of choice (as indicated by his thoughts in the Khrazz fight)--I doubt very much that he was all that interested in the political aspect of things before he was kinda forced to be when he became the Lord Commander...still, I think Paladin encompasses the political aspect of his job while still capturing his essential nature as a warrior.

I don't want to belabor the large characters vs. small characters thing as it was a pretty minor point, but I think you could pull a similar list of fighters whose size isn't really emphasized similar to Barristan (could be wrong on some of these, but Ned, Brynden, Arthur Dayne, Bronn, Balon Swann, etc.--and isn't book-Tormund kinda short?). But yeah, he probably doesn't rely on pure strength as much as those characters do, though it doesn't mean he's not strong himself.

I think that might have something to do with our disagreement, yeah. I agree that the Champion is more of a front-line fighter type, but I see both the Battlemaster and the Swashbuckler as duelists. The Battlemaster to me emphasizes the pure skill element of dueling/swordfighting while the Swashbuckler would be a duelist who fights with guile, using surroundings and maneuverability to their advantage (hence Bronn). I don't see a lot of guile/maneuverability in Barristan, so I see Battlemaster as fitting him more mechanically while Paladin (Devotion or Crown) fits him more thematically.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-07, 01:22 PM

strangebloke

2018-02-07, 01:25 PM

Rogues can certainly be honorable.

Anyone in 5e can where full plate too. There are just consequences for not being proficient and having a sufficient strength score.

Also Fighters are not required to be large men, or even have high strength. Barristan fought in Full Plate with a Longsword and was very proficient at doing so.

15 STR is required to handle heavy armor without drawbacks. A 15 STR dnd character can 'break a small stone statue into pieces with his bare hands.' A 15 STR guy can run as fast with 120 pounds of gear on his back as he can run without. 15 STR is stronk by dnd standards.

Plate was actually not that heavy. 30-50 pounds, excluding specialized jousting armor, and it was very well-distributed. The heavier (real) armor was closer in weight to (dnd) half-plate than (dnd) full plate. By contrast a modern marine carries 97 to 135 pounds of kit around with him that is pretty poorly distributed. Granted, they aren't expected to fight with as wide a range of movement as a knight, but nonetheless, plate armor isn't that restrictive. I have a friend who's a grad student studying medieval armor. The guy is like 5'5" and although he's healthy, he's shrimpy as heck. Nonetheless, he can put on one of these suits and practice swordplay for a few hours.

It's an area where dnd mechanics don't closely reflect reality.

As to weapon choice... eh. Barristan uses an arming sword, quarterstaff, and lance. Same thing as with plate. Mechanically, you need strength for those three. IRL, you need both strength and skill. I'm only arguing that Barristan is more defined by his skill than by his physical strength. He's physically much weaker than anyone who can take him in a fight. Gregor, Sandor, Jamie, (who's much younger) etc. Maybe you reflect that with more class levels, but lower physical stats. I don't know.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-07, 01:25 PM

Also, I don't want to turn this into an alignment thread, but you asked for input in the OP and I cannot recall any evidence that supports a 'good' alignment for Arya. She seems pretty much textbook CN to me.

No, I definitely want input. I had a difficult time with Arya's alignment. On the one hand, she does kill without qualms, but she only kills evil people. She also genuinely seems to care about some of her allies, and most of the murders she commits are based on vengeance for her friends.

That being said, you could definitely make an argument for CN, especially in the later books/seasons. If you can find somebody else to second your opinion, I'll change it.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-07, 01:28 PM

especially in the later books/seasons.

In fairness, I was meaning book!Arya as of the end of ADWD.

strangebloke

2018-02-07, 01:31 PM

Also, I don't want to turn this into an alignment thread, but you asked for input in the OP and I cannot recall any evidence that supports a 'good' alignment for Arya. She seems pretty much textbook CN to me.
She's very concerned with following her own sense of right and wrong, though. Chaotic Good is all about that internal moral compass. She's genuinely kind to those who haven't grievously wronged her, and even has it in her to (mostly) forgive Sandor. She does kill one 'innocent' in the form of that one loan shark in Bravos, but eh. With that one exception everyone she wants to kill has personally killed or tried to kill a close friend of hers. Sandor killed Micah, Jamie broke Bran's back, Cersei and Tywin orchestrated Rob's death and would have executed Sansa. Gregor and his troops tortured and raped her fellow prisoners within her line of sight. By dnd standards she's a pretty gracious person.

I don't really have a dog in this race, but I can see the argument.

...And I've never seen the show, so that's a factor.

white lancer

2018-02-07, 02:25 PM

I've seen a lot of debate over Barristan the Bold recently. Want me to do him next?

I'm not sure that Barristan's actual statblock would be all that interesting/complex--it's just that we had different perspectives on his character (and on some of the classes), so just nailing down his core class is trickier than I thought. Personally, I like the idea of simply giving Barristan more class levels than most other martial classes while having worse physical stats (which would reflect his age vs. his experience).

Arya's alignment is a tough one for sure, not least because she's been influenced by so many different viewpoints (most of whom were super ambiguous themselves--the Faceless Men, for instance, espouse a viewpoint that's probably TN, but taking money to murder people probably lands them along the Evil side of things). I think she's been shifting toward Neutral rather than Good for most of the series, though that's probably more emphasized in the show than the books (where her revenge killings are truly brutal). Alignment in general strikes me as veeeeeery tricky with regards to ASOIAF, though--what alignment would you stick Jaime with? Sandor? Tyrion? Robert? Ambiguity, particularly along the Good-Evil scale, is one of the hallmarks of GRRM's writings, such that you could probably write pages of analysis on the alignment of some of these characters.

Eric Diaz

2018-02-07, 03:28 PM

The main issue is there is no "middle ground" for some stuff in 5e. For example, there is very little reason to have high Str AND Dex - like MANY characters do. Fortunately, we have a feat for expertise now, but any decent maester must be a rogue, which is strange (although I DO think they would fight like rogues...). Se below for another example of a character that could be an assassin (maybe) and also swashbuckler.

Also, 90% of classes are spellcasters, which doesn't really fit GoT...

Ideally, a GoT version would get the AiME treatment, with classes for scholars, schemers (masterminds maybe) and warlords. OTOH I don't think you'd need a class for the night's watch, golden cloaks, etc. Maybe a few tips for faceless men and a selection of spells for red priests.

Also, more detailed rules for poison, alchemy, and armies, I guess.

Anyway, since these are NPCs, you can probably do what you want.

Ooh, monk sounds great for Oberyn! Maybe mix in some levels of Assassin for Cunning Action and poisoner's/disguise kit proficiencies?

Yeah, probably! I am not really a fan of MCing, but to resemble the characters in the books, I reckon you'd need to do that. One level in monk doesn't seem like a great benefit, but at least you get a bonus action attack - greater chance of sneak attack.

Maybe we could skip fighter altogether and go monk 1/rogue assassin x. But sneak attack is suboptimal for dueling, so maybe swashbuckler? Also, it is strange to think Oberyn wouldn't have proficiency with a sword or have disadvantage when using heavy armor - at tourneys, for example.

EDIT: nope, cannot sneak attack with spear or unarmed... too bad. Back to fighter I guess. I wish 5e was a bit more flexible about these things.

Zonugal

2018-02-07, 03:46 PM

If you've got some, feel free to attach a link. I don't want the show stolen from me, but I'd obviously appreciate some extra discussion fodder, since I don't plan to write any over the weekends.

I don't have any full character builds for Game of Thrones, and I'm only familiar with the series via the television show, but this is probably how I would approach it.

No character would be above ninth level (except for Melisandre & Jaqen H'ghar), with most of them being around 3rd, 4th or 5th level:

Eddard "Ned" Stark: Human 'Cavalier' Fighter 5
Catelyn Stark: Human 'Mastermind' Rogue 3
Jon Snow: Human 'Hunter' Spell-less Revised-Ranger 5
Sansa Stark: Human 'Mastermind' Rogue 3
Arya Stark: Human 'Swashbuckler' Rogue 4
Robb Stark: Human 'Beastmaster' Spell-less Revised-Ranger 5
Bran Stark: Human 'Great Old One' Warlock 7
Theon Greyjoy: Human 'Hunter' Spell-less Revised-Ranger 3
Robert Baratheon: Human 'Champion' Fighter 5
Sandor "The Hound" Clegane: Human 'Champion' Fighter 5
Brienne of Tarth: Human 'Samurai' Fighter 5
Barristan Selmy: Human 'Battlemaster' Fighter 6/Rogue 1
Syrio Forel: Human 'Swashbuckler' Rogue 4
Tywin Lannister: Human Fighter 1/ 'Mastermind' Rogue 4
Jaime Lannister: Human 'Battlemaster' Fighter 6/Rogue 1
Cersei Lannister: Human 'Mastermind' Rogue 3
Tyrion Lannister: Human 'Mastermind' Rogue 5
Bronn: Human Spell-less Revised-Ranger 2/'Swashbuckler' Rogue 4
Qyburn: Human 'Artificer' Wizard 5
Daenerys Targaryen: Human 'Draconic' Sorcerer 5
Jorah Mormont: Human 'Cavalier' Fighter 4
Grey Worm: Human 'Battlemaster' Fighter 5
Stannis Baratheon: Human 'Samurai' Fighter 5
Davos Seaworth: Human 'Scout' Rogue 4
Melisandre: Human 'Divine Soul' Sorcerer 9
Khal Drogo: Human 'Totem Warrior' Barbarian 5
Tormund Giantsbane: Human 'Totem Warrior' Barbarian 4
Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish: Human 'Mastermind' Rogue 4
Varys: Human 'Mastermind' Rogue 4
Ramsay Bolton: Human 'Hunter' Spell-less Revised-Ranger 5
Gregor Clegane: Human 'Champion' Fighter 5/Barbarian 2
Oberyn Martell: Human Rogue 2/'Kensai' Monk 5
Beric Dondarrion: Human 'Banneret' Fighter 5
Thoros of Myr: Human 'Life' Cleric 5
Jaqen H'ghar: Human Revised-Ranger 2/'Assassin' Rogue 7

Because of the nature of the setting, most of these characters are going to share a very similar builds. Which means all the excitement comes from how they role-play them & how the dice dictate fate.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-07, 03:47 PM

15 STR is required to handle heavy armor without drawbacks. A 15 STR dnd character can 'break a small stone statue into pieces with his bare hands.' Is that a quote from 5e or a previous edition? I don't remember having seen it.

A 15 STR guy can run as fast with 120 pounds of gear on his back as he can run without. 15 STR is stronk by dnd standards.

Without using the Variant encumbrance rules, sure. I do think that if I was doing ASOIAF in 5e I would use both the Encumbrance and Gritty Realism variants.

Plate was actually not that heavy. 30-50 pounds, excluding specialized jousting armor, and it was very well-distributed. The heavier (real) armor was closer in weight to (dnd) half-plate than (dnd) full plate. By contrast a modern marine carries 97 to 135 pounds of kit around with him that is pretty poorly distributed. Granted, they aren't expected to fight with as wide a range of movement as a knight, but nonetheless, plate armor isn't that restrictive. I have a friend who's a grad student studying medieval armor. The guy is like 5'5" and although he's healthy, he's shrimpy as heck. Nonetheless, he can put on one of these suits and practice swordplay for a few hours.

It's an area where dnd mechanics don't closely reflect reality.

All very true. 5e balances Plate with a strength requirement which is not really accurate with real life. Still we aren't talking about how to model Barristan in Real Life, but how to model him in 5e.

Now, if you are arguing that 5e Plate is closer to Tournament plate, and 5e Half-Plate is closer to Field Plate, I can see some merit in the argument. A lot of merit actually.

Still as far as I know Swashbuckler's do not get Medium Armor Proficiency either.

As to weapon choice... eh. Barristan uses an arming sword, quarterstaff, and lance. Same thing as with plate.

It's been a while since I read A Dance with Dragons, but I remember Barristan fighting with two hands on his sword. While it's perfectly possible to use an Arming sword with two hands, it don't lend as much advantage as a sword with a longer hilt. I think he is not using an arming sword in this instance, but my memory may be faulty.

Mechanically, you need strength for those three. IRL, you need both strength and skill. I'm only arguing that Barristan is more defined by his skill than by his physical strength. He's physically much weaker than anyone who can take him in a fight. Gregor, Sandor, Jamie, (who's much younger) etc. Maybe you reflect that with more class levels, but lower physical stats. I don't know.

Certainly true! I think it's fair to say he has a higher level than most if not all of the knights in the series by virtue of his greater experience. I would represent that difference in skill with higher Proficiency bonus and possibly Superiority Dice. Although I lean more toward a Banneret than Battlemaster to represent his persuasiveness and courtly skill even if it seems like he picked up the latter later on in life.

I could easily see him as a level 9+ fighter walking around in a world of level 1-5 fighters. With somebody like the Sword of the Morning being the definition of a 20th level fighter.

Looking at what the Swashbuckler offers it seems much more suited IMHO to a Bravo than an Experienced Knight of Westeros to me, even one that is exceptional like Barristan.

Now as far as stats go, 15 Strength would just offset the Speed penalty right? I could see that representing Barristan having lost a step over the years. I don't think 14 Strength would be too of the mark for the character. Combined with a Proficiency bonus of say +4 or higher and he's hitting as often as an 18 Strength Novice would.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 09:41 AM

Eddard Stark is up! As usual, please comment on how/whether you liked him, and any advice/criticisms you have.

I'll probably finish writing Barristan Selmy later today; keep an eye out!

strangebloke

2018-02-08, 10:30 AM

Now, if you are arguing that 5e Plate is closer to Tournament plate, and 5e Half-Plate is closer to Field Plate, I can see some merit in the argument. A lot of merit actually.

Still as far as I know Swashbuckler's do not get Medium Armor Proficiency either.

This was exactly my argument.

As to proficiency in medium armor, there's a feat for that!

Upon review, I do agree with many of your points. My post was riddled with errors.

Barristan Selmy
Level 9 Banneret
Str 12, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 16
Vhuman(Prodigy)
Background:Noble(knight)
Half plate
dueling style

skills:stealth, acrobatics, handle animal, history(expertise), persuasion, and stealth.
tools: disguise

AC: 17 without shield
HP: 63

He's a tough old bird with a wide base of skill and knowledge. (side note, I love the prodigy feat.)

Eddard Stark is up! As usual, please comment on how/whether you liked him, and any advice/criticisms you have.

I'll probably finish writing Barristan Selmy later today; keep an eye out!
Not much to 'ol Ned, eh?

That said, I'd swap the Int and Wis stats. Sure, he blunders the political game, but overall I'd describe him as a very centered person with a deep understanding of people. His weakness was not that he failed to see Cersei for what she was, but that he took compassion on her when he should have been hard.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 10:49 AM

Not much to 'ol Ned, eh?

That said, I'd swap the Int and Wis stats. Sure, he blunders the political game, but overall I'd describe him as a very centered person with a deep understanding of people. His weakness was not that he failed to see Cersei for what she was, but that he took compassion on her when he should have been hard.

I think you may be right. I'll switch those stats now.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 10:53 AM

Okay, I've finished Barristan's stat block.

Let the arguments commence!

Also, any requests for my next one?

hamishspence

2018-02-08, 10:56 AM

Him being LN is plausible - he had to turn a blind eye to acts done by Aerys, a lot.

However - how's Faceless Ones era Arya Good if he's Neutral? She does worse things than him, for worse reasons.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 11:02 AM

Him being LN is plausible - he had to turn a blind eye to acts done by Aerys, a lot.

However - how's Faceless Ones era Arya Good if he's Neutral? She does worse things than him, for worse reasons.

All these stat blocks are for the end of ADwD. At that point, Arya was leaving the House of Black and White.

She did do worse things, but pretty much only to people who had wronged her personally (with a few exceptions i.e. the merchant she was contracted to kill by the HoBaW). She is perfectly nice to anybody who isn't evil. In fact, many of the names on her kill list are people who killed or hurt people like Gendry, Hot Pie, and the other boys Yoren was escorting to the wall. She didn't like those people very well, but she still avenged them.

td;rl: I agree that there is some ambiguity in Arya's alignment, but I think she's CG overall. However, since I did say that if Ninja_Prawn could find somebody to second his/her opinion, I'd change it.

Arya is now CN.

strangebloke

2018-02-08, 11:18 AM

Him being LN is plausible - he had to turn a blind eye to acts done by Aerys, a lot.

However - how's Faceless Ones era Arya Good if he's Neutral? She does worse things than him, for worse reasons.

Selmy is a good guy, he's just that his goodness and honor are in conflict somewhat frequently. He's very selfless and devoted to doing the 'right' thing as determined by society. While his judgement of what the right thing is isn't always correct, he is trying.

And alignment is all about intentions. If you give money to a homeless person hoping that he'll get food, but he instead buys drugs and overdoses, you've still done a good act.

Faceless Ones are True Neutral in the extreme, but Arya is better than them. She has love and kindness in her heart, and every one of the personas she adopts is generally kind to the people that she interacts with. Her thirst for vengeance is a neutral aspect of her, but her kindness and empathy for the common folk is one of her most essential traits.

I'd put both Selmy and Arya down as solidly good. Gendry and Quentyn and Oberyn and others are more neutral. Sandor moves from Lawful evil to Chaotic Good. (If you follow the gravedigger storyline)

Side Note:I think you should have a little more confidence in your builds, @the_brazenburn. I do disagree with Selmy as a paladin for a number of reasons, (he can't heal people with magic) but own it, man. Defend your thesis!

white lancer

2018-02-08, 11:41 AM

I like Barristan as LG as well (and the build looks good to me). Arya I think is a little less clear, but I could see her going either way.

Ned I guess works fine as a Champion, though I would have liked to see him as a Hunter Ranger instead (the North in general would be full of Rangers/Barbarians rather than Champions IMO, since it's less civilized and not really focused on traditional tournament combat). Is it crazy to think of him as an Ancients Paladin? That archetype is unfortunately less focused on law, so maybe not, but the Ancients flavor in particular evokes the old gods to me (which of course are nature-focused).

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 12:42 PM

Side Note:I think you should have a little more confidence in your builds, @the_brazenburn. I do disagree with Selmy as a paladin for a number of reasons, (he can't heal people with magic) but own it, man. Defend your thesis!

Okay, defending my builds.

Selmy's healing ability represents not physical healing, but the inspiration he gives to the people around him. This devotion allows them to fight longer and harder, not actually curing their wounds. As people have pointed out on different threads many different times, hit points reflect more than just physical health. They also show luck, ability to survive, and will to keep on living. Barristan's ability reflects these secondary aspects rather than the first.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-08, 01:01 PM

This was exactly my argument.

As to proficiency in medium armor, there's a feat for that!

Upon review, I do agree with many of your points. My post was riddled with errors.

Barristan Selmy
Level 9 Banneret
Str 12, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 16
Vhuman(Prodigy)
Background:Noble(knight)
Half plate
dueling style

skills:stealth, acrobatics, handle animal, history(expertise), persuasion, and stealth.
tools: disguise

AC: 17 without shield
HP: 63

He's a tough old bird with a wide base of skill and knowledge. (side note, I love the prodigy feat.)

Now we're finding common ground! I could see him having Medium armor Master to since he seems to be well practiced in armor, and pretty sneaky.

Selmy is a good guy, he's just that his goodness and honor are in conflict somewhat frequently. He's very selfless and devoted to doing the 'right' thing as determined by society. While his judgement of what the right thing is isn't always correct, he is trying.

Selmy is the classic example of what an LG character does when Lawful and Good don't align. Does he stay loyal to an evil King because he is the king? Does he now serve the new usurper because he has the strongest claim to the throne of any known noblemen still in the kingdom? Neither of these would have been easy decisions for him.

He reminds me a lot of the real life knight William Marshall who served several Princes, Kings, and Queens on different sides of battle but whose personal honor was above reproach. He eventually becomes regent when King John dies, despite having previously served Richard who John certainly did not like, and before that Henry II their father whom Richard went to war against, and before that Henry's wife Eleanor who supported her sons in rebellion against their father, and before that Henry's First son, also Henry who also rebelled against his father the King.

Man loyalty in feudal systems can be confusing.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-08, 01:16 PM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 01:22 PM

On Selmy's alignment: I'd say he just about squeaks into lawful good, but he's really not far away from true neutral. I'm thinking my interpretation of 'neutral' is a lot wider than most people's though...

I also have some issues with giving Ned a 9 in Intelligence. I'd have put him at 10, and maybe cut the Wisdom to 13. And unless you need 18 Strength to prop up his CR, that seems an overestimate, too. Sandor Clegane and the Greatjon Umber (and maybe people like Strong Belwas and the Magnar of Thenn) are 18 Strength; most of the other 'big guys' are 16-17, for me.

The strength is necessary to keep his CR high. It doesn't seem right to have him weaker than his children...

I do see your point about the "big guys", though. I probably won't get to make them for a while, though, since they are, for the most part, minor characters (excluding the Hound, of course).

white lancer

2018-02-08, 02:13 PM

Victarion's another of the "big guys" that's more of a major character. Not to mention Robert Baratheon, Brienne, or Khal Drogo.

I agree that Ned shouldn't be weaker than his sons...not sure his sons have to be all that physically strong, though. Always thought Jon was better than those he fought mostly because he had actual training, as compared to basically everyone else around him. Plus they're both still young enough as of ADWD that they wouldn't have come into their full strength yet. Jon and Robb are both really hard to gauge as fighters because we don't see them do it much--they have to have some skill since they both survive battles, but Mance still manages to take Jon down without breaking a sweat.

I was wondering if Ned's CHA might be a bit too high. It's weird because he's good at some elements of CHA (being a general), but he doesn't seem to be all that personally likable. The Northern lords (and some of the Southern ones) respect him for his strength, character, and acumen, not necessarily because he was enjoyable to be around. After all, he's variously described as aloof, cold, quiet, etc...

Any ideas where Rhaegar fits in? If it weren't for the lack of spellcasting, I would have thought him a dead ringer for a Valor Bard, but...

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-08, 02:38 PM

I was wondering if Ned's CHA might be a bit too high. It's weird because he's good at some elements of CHA (being a general), but he doesn't seem to be all that personally likable. The Northern lords (and some of the Southern ones) respect him for his strength, character, and acumen, not necessarily because he was enjoyable to be around.

I feel like I can get behind 14 for Ned's Cha. He seems likeable enough, and getting someone to respect you for your character is something that takes Charisma. And, like, Ned is loved by almost everyone who has met him personally. I think his ability to politik and generally 'manage' the northern lords is also more impressive than it seems. There are a lot of competing interests and cunning operators up there, as the Hornwood crisis demonstrated.

strangebloke

2018-02-08, 02:41 PM

GRRM sure loves his big guys...

My take

20 STR: Unrealistically strong and large. They're past the peak of what a normal person can achieve.
-Gregor
-Hodor

18 STR: Huge guys who are more... realistic. The highest you can get by rolling
-Sandor
-Khal Drogo
-Robert
-Mance (pastes Jon to the wall with about three seconds work.)

16 STR: Strong but normal people. The highest that you get with a standard array.
-Brienne: She's an absolute monster compared to other females, but she's not so huge. Jaimie is genuinely surprised that she's stronger than him, even after he's been starved and beaten.
-Jaimie
-Ned
-etc. etc.

Rob and Jon could be 16 or lower, depending.

nickl_2000

2018-02-08, 02:44 PM

20 STR: Unrealistically strong and large. They're past the peak of what a normal person can achieve.
-Gregor
-Hodor

Yes, but what would you put Hodor's int and char at? 6 each?

strangebloke

2018-02-08, 02:47 PM

Yes, but what would you put Hodor's int and char at? 6 each?

Hodor can't form words. Six is probably appropriate.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-08, 02:49 PM

white lancer

2018-02-08, 03:23 PM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 03:44 PM

Sure, I guess Ned's leadership abilities are justification enough to give him a higher-than-average CHA. I never saw him as being a gregarious or even especially friendly guy, but thinking about it, everyone who dislikes him personally was either an enemy of his (Cersei, Joffrey) or felt he had personally wronged them (Jaime, Jorah, Lady Dustin). That would be true of virtually everybody.

I like the strength chart as well. Victarion, Hotah, the Greatjon (and the Smalljon, for that matter), Tormund, and Belwas would probably join the 18s. I imagine Belwas would have a 20 CON, but below-average mental stats.

6 at maximum on INT and CHA seems fair for Hodor. He wouldn't have any class levels, though.

I've always loved Belwas, for whatever reason. I think I'll make him next, even though he's sort of minor.

As far as Strength scores go, there seems to be a general consensus that 18 is too high for Ned. I don't really want to put him at 16, though. I'll compromise at 17. This way, he could beat Jon Snow in an arm-wrestle, but is equally effective at sword-swinging.

RSP

2018-02-08, 04:03 PM

My 2 cents:

I'd keep alignment to the basics: does the character tend toward Order and Law, or Personal Freedom? Does the character kill only when necessary or does others' lives not matter to them? Littlefinger probably truly cares for Sansa (in his own weird way) and wants her to succeed, but that doesn't make him Good. I'd go with Arya as CG. Selmy as LG (borderline LN), and Ned as NG.

For Ned as NG, I go with he repeatedly tries to do what's good regardless of law/order or personal freedom from taking the position of the Hand, to giving Cersi a chance to leave with her children.

Also, keep in mind Charisma isn't just social skills but also confidence or "strength of personality." As a lot of these characters turn into strong personas, they'd have higher Charismas than if it were just a measure of eloquence.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-08, 04:13 PM

I think Ned can be friendly, it just happens off-screen. Like, Catelyn thought he was cold and aloof at first, but she ended up loving him once she got to know him better.

As well as likeability and influence, Charisma also measures confidence and sense of self, which Ned has in spades. He has no doubts at all about who he is. Gah, ninja'd! :smallsigh:

Plus, like, 14 is hardly superhuman. You probably know people IRL with 14 Charisma. And as a reference, the 'knight' in the MM has 15 Cha and the 'noble' has 16.

strangebloke

2018-02-08, 05:02 PM

I've always loved Belwas, for whatever reason. I think I'll make him next, even though he's sort of minor.

As far as Strength scores go, there seems to be a general consensus that 18 is too high for Ned. I don't really want to put him at 16, though. I'll compromise at 17. This way, he could beat Jon Snow in an arm-wrestle, but is equally effective at sword-swinging.

Yes, Belwas is the best. One of the many sins of the show that he got cut.

With Ned it's just that... he's never once mentioned as strong, you know? If anything (and this is easy to forget, since he's played by Sean Bean) he's described as short. At least, shorter than his brother, who is a Northman. (which are shorter than the Andals to the south on average.)

We don't have a lot of granularity to work with here so a lot of people of pretty disparate strength levels are going to get thrown together.

Either way, your rationale is fine. He should be stronger than Jon&Robb.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-08, 05:28 PM

Yes, Belwas is the best. One of the many sins of the show that he got cut.

With Ned it's just that... he's never once mentioned as strong, you know? If anything (and this is easy to forget, since he's played by Sean Bean) he's described as short. At least, shorter than his brother, who is a Northman. (which are shorter than the Andals to the south on average.)

We don't have a lot of granularity to work with here so a lot of people of pretty disparate strength levels are going to get thrown together.

Either way, your rationale is fine. He should be stronger than Jon&Robb.

Wait, Belwas got cut? :smalleek: I haven't watched the show, so I didn't know.

Ned should be very strong. He wields a broadsword, for crying out loud!

strangebloke

2018-02-08, 05:35 PM

Wait, Belwas got cut? :smalleek: I haven't watched the show, so I didn't know.

Ned should be very strong. He wields a broadsword, for crying out loud!

Mmmm. I haven't seen it either, but I believe that his fight with the champion was given to Daario.

I mean, Ned can probably knock the piss out of me, but then, so could most GoT characters.

RSP

2018-02-08, 05:41 PM

.
Ned should be very strong. He wields a broadsword, for crying out loud!

Wasn't Ned wielding a two-handed sword? I think Ice is bigger than Jon's Longclaw.

Per Wiki: "as wide across as a man’s hand, and taller even than Robb" I'd say that's a Str build for Ned

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-08, 05:51 PM

white lancer

2018-02-08, 05:57 PM

Fair enough re: Ned and Charisma. I always got the sense that he wasn't much of a people-person, but he has to have some ability in it in order to be as effective a leader as he was...could be simply that he's more serious and introverted, but still has the abilities for leadership. I could see him starting out with lower CHA (as the "quiet wolf" in Meera's story) and bumping it as he leveled/grew into his position as a general and the Lord of Winterfell once Brandon died.

Belwas did indeed get cut from the show. I think the showrunners decided that there wasn't a need for him once they decided they couldn't effectively pull of Barristan's "disguise" on screen (since watchers would recognize him even if Dany would not). Regardless, I think a build for Belwas (and other minor characters such as Meera Reed) could be more interesting than those of a lot of major characters, since he's a lot less of a traditional fighter-type.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-08, 06:14 PM

I could see him starting out with lower CHA (as the "quiet wolf" in Meera's story) and bumping it as he leveled/grew into his position as a general and the Lord of Winterfell once Brandon died.

Yeah, that's probably what happened.

I think the showrunners decided that there wasn't a need for him once they decided they couldn't effectively pull of Barristan's "disguise" on screen (since watchers would recognize him even if Dany would not). Regardless, I think a build for Belwas (and other minor characters such as Meera Reed) could be more interesting than those of a lot of major characters, since he's a lot less of a traditional fighter-type.

+1 for Meera builds!

And have the showrunners never heard of dramatic irony? I can't believe those two are still allowed to work in TV. :smallannoyed:

GlenSmash!

2018-02-08, 06:15 PM

Ice was, like, the biggest sword in Westeros. When they melted it down, there was enough metal to make two longswords. GRRM was clearly in full-on Fantasy mode when he wrote that. Still, 16 or 17 Strength should be plenty to wield it.

in 5e Proficiency with Greatswords regardless of Strength score is enough to wield it.

To wield it well on the other hand... I'd say 14 minimum but more is better.

Nidgit

2018-02-08, 06:16 PM

Ned isn't any less intelligent than at least the average person. He's bad at picking people to trust and he lacks experience in political maneuvering. In other words, his Intelligence should probably be an 11 or 12 and his Wisdom no higher than 12.

We also don't have that much insight into his fighting style but Champion seems kind of wrong. I'd probably go Banneret 5/Oath of the Ancients 3.

Selmy is also way more of a Battlemaster than Champion, at least in his current state. Rather than give him Champion features, why not just give him the Martial Adept feat?

GlenSmash!

2018-02-08, 06:17 PM

Ned isn't any less intelligent than at least the average person. He's bad at picking people to trust and he lacks experience in political maneuvering. In other words, his Intelligence should probably be an 11 or 12 and his Wisdom no higher than 12.

We also don't have that much insight into his fighting style but Champion seems kind of wrong. I'd probably go Banneret 5/Oath of the Ancients 3.

He certainly failed some Insight checks, that's for sure.

Nidgit

2018-02-08, 06:21 PM

He certainly failed some Insight checks, that's for sure.
Littlefinger: "Don't trust anyone, even me"
Ned: rolls Insight, narrowly succeeds.
DM: "He's probably lying about something but you're not sure what."
Ned: I bet he's lying about it being able to trust him! :)

GlenSmash!

2018-02-08, 06:44 PM

white lancer

2018-02-08, 07:30 PM

To be fair, Littlefinger 100% has Expertise in Deception, and Cersei's at least proficient. Failing an Insight check against those two isn't too surprising, even with a positive Wisdom score!

By most accounts Ned was a pretty good ruler, so I think a reasonable Wisdom makes sense for him.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-09, 03:31 AM

Littlefinger: "Don't trust anyone, even me"
Ned: rolls Insight, narrowly succeeds.
DM: "He's probably lying about something but you're not sure what."
Ned: I bet he's lying about it being able to trust him! :)

That's one of those where you roll a 14 and look pleadingly at the DM...

But I'm with white lancer. Ned's wisdom is pretty good. He definitely knows the southern politicians are a bunch of snakes. He's plenty suspicious and he tries to be cautious, he just makes a couple of mistakes, mainly because he's set in his ways and things are done differently in the north. Anyone can blow a couple of dice rolls...

strangebloke

2018-02-09, 08:57 AM

That's one of those where you roll a 14 and look pleadingly at the DM...

But I'm with white lancer. Ned's wisdom is pretty good. He definitely knows the southern politicians are a bunch of snakes. He's plenty suspicious and he tries to be cautious, he just makes a couple of mistakes, mainly because he's set in his ways and things are done differently in the north. Anyone can blow a couple of dice rolls...

If we're gamifying that interaction with little finger, it should be noted that littlefinger has at least expertise in deception, and could easily have additional class features.

Granted, in the text of what he says, it doesn't seem like a master bluff, but it isn't like Ned was the first guy he tricked.

hamishspence

2018-02-09, 09:01 AM

Selmy is the classic example of what an LG character does when Lawful and Good don't align. Does he stay loyal to an evil King because he is the king? Does he now serve the new usurper because he has the strongest claim to the throne of any known noblemen still in the kingdom? Neither of these would have been easy decisions for him.

They might not be easy - but he still does them - when faced with "the choice between Law and Good" he tends to choose Law.

Knaight

2018-02-09, 09:16 AM

Ned should be very strong. He wields a broadsword, for crying out loud!
Essentially every melee weapon is designed such that an average strength person can use it just fine. "A broadsword" doesn't mean much at all, that describes a standard armament used by a standard soldier, and there's no reason to think that it requires exceptional strength to use.

There are a few explicit ridiculous fantasy weapons in the books, most notably Robert's war-hammer getting described as hard for a normal person to even lift, let alone wield, and Gregor being described as using a proper two handed sword in one hand. Those cases are indicative of extreme strength. Just using any standard weapon, including big polearms and two handed swords? Not so much.

Ice was, like, the biggest sword in Westeros. When they melted it down, there was enough metal to make two longswords. GRRM was clearly in full-on Fantasy mode when he wrote that. Still, 16 or 17 Strength should be plenty to wield it.
He pretty consistently uses terms like "longswords" to refer to one handed weapons, and Valyrian steel appears to be kept pretty well in reforging processes. This could easily be something like a 2kg sword making two 1 kg swords, which isn't particularly unreasonable in terms of sheer mass.

The quote about being taller than Robb and as wide across as a man's hand is more of a size indicator. The height isn't that exceptional, 6' two handed swords weren't particularly uncommon by the late medieval period, and again, they could be used by someone of average strength just fine. It's the width that's really high here, and the first real suggestion of Ice being a bit of a ridiculous fantasy weapon (apart from the whole fictional supermetal thing).

the_brazenburn

2018-02-09, 01:22 PM

Strong Belwas, my personal favorite character, is up now!

As usual, comment on my build and offer advice or criticisms, as well as any requests for Monday's build (I'm taking the weekends off).

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-09, 02:13 PM

As usual, comment on my build

I think someone mentioned he should have abnormally high Con? Like maybe even 20? From what I can remember he was described as very tanky. And it took like 5 metric tonnes of poison to take him down.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-09, 02:15 PM

I think someone mentioned he should have abnormally high Con? Like maybe even 20? From what I can remember he was described as very tanky. And it took like 5 metric tonnes of poison to take him down.

I had thought that that would be the point. It slipped my mind for a moment, that's been fixed.

white lancer

2018-02-09, 02:33 PM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-09, 02:46 PM

Yeah, I think CON was kinda Belwas's "thing." Especially with the whole "I'll let them hit me once" schtick. I was originally going to question the CHA, but I think it's right since Belwas was definitely a showman in addition to being a warrior.

Yeah, that was part of my reasoning for making him a berserker. The "let them hit me once" for me perfectly resembles Reckess Attack.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-09, 02:51 PM

https://images.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,q_auto:good,w_600/svhgauripaapelhh5y8x/top-10-game-of-thrones-characters-from-the-books-that-should-be-on-the-show-possible-spoilers.jpg

RedMage125

2018-02-09, 11:18 PM

hamishspence

2018-02-10, 02:33 PM

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but back in 3.0 days (well before the show was a thing), Dragon Magazine did stats for several ASoIaF characters. Stannis, as I recall, was a Paladin. Book Stannis certainly seems to be a Paladin, despite a low CHA.

I've got that issue - 307, May 2003. Not many alignment specifications - lots of class and level though. Game Stannis's Charisma was pretty high: 17. Wisdom was lower though: 12, and Intelligence even lower (11)

Stannis Baratheon: LG Paladin 10
Daenerys Targaryen: NG Sorcerer 6
Jon Snow: LG Fighter 2/Ranger 3/Ranger of the Night's Watch 2 (PRC invented for the issue)
Melisandre: LE Cleric 9
Tyrion Lannister: LN Aristocrat 6/Fighter 5
Sandor Clegane: N Fighter 14

Davos Seaworth: Rogue 7
Salladhor Saan: Fighter 5/Rogue 5
Euron Greyjoy: Barbarian 7/Fighter 5
Victarion Greyjoy: Fighter 8
Aeron Damphair: Cleric 9
Barristan Selmy: Fighter 18
Daario Naharis: Fighter 8
Sansa Stark: Aristocrat 1
Arya Stark: Fighter 1
Beric Dondarrion: Paladin 4
Thoros of Myr: Cleric 5
Brienne of Tarth: Fighter 16
Addam Marbrand: Fighter 8
Olenna Tyrell: Aristocrat 7/Rogue 5
Jaime Lannister: Fighter 16
Cersei Lannister: Aristocrat 12
Gregor Clegane: Fighter 13
Lord Walder Frey: Aristocrat 4/Fighter 4
Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish: Aristocrat 2/Rogue 5

Knaight

2018-02-10, 02:51 PM

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but back in 3.0 days (well before the show was a thing), Dragon Magazine did stats for several ASoIaF characters. Stannis, as I recall, was a Paladin. Book Stannis certainly seems to be a Paladin, despite a low CHA.

I wouldn't use that class for any of the characters - it brings in the idiosyncrasies of D&D magic, which maps extremely poorly to ASoIF magic.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-10, 02:52 PM

Game Stannis's Charisma was pretty high: 17. Wisdom was lower though: 12, and Intelligence even lower (11)

Gotta say I disagree with that. Stannis is smart and well-read, at least 12 or 13 Int. And honestly, his Cha isn't that great. There are times when he doesn't know his own mind, and he generally struggles to influence people or impose his will on the world. Most of his successes come when he takes a step back and applies his Intelligence to problems - the open letter about the incest, realising that the threat north of the wall was more important, etc.

Melisandre: LE Cleric 9

Worth noting that Meli hadn't had a POV chapter yet in 2003. The more we learn about her, the more clear it becomes that her 'divine miracles' are largely sleight of hand and shadowbinding, rather than cleric magic. So I would definitely argue against cleric 9 for her today.

Tyrion Lannister: LN Aristocrat 6/Fighter 5

...I've not played 3.0. Did you need 5 levels of fighter before you were allowed to put on armour and carry a shield? :smallconfused:

Knaight

2018-02-10, 02:55 PM

...I've not played 3.0. Did you need 5 levels of fighter before you were allowed to put on armour and carry a shield? :smallconfused:

He does have some battle experience, decentish combat instincts, etc. Fighter 5 seems excessive, but a level of Fighter can be justified pretty easily.

hamishspence

2018-02-10, 03:02 PM

Gotta say I disagree with that. Stannis is smart and well-read, at least 12 or 13 Int.

Keep in mind that 13 is the best possible stat for somebody using the average array rather than the elite array.

So, an expert NPC at the start of their career, would be expected to have Int 13 if their career is based around Knowledge.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-10, 03:06 PM

Keep in mind that 13 is the best possible stat for somebody using the average array rather than the elite array.

So, an expert NPC at the start of their career, would be expected to have Int 13 if their career is based around Knowledge.

Fair enough, but you said they put his Charisma at 17. And in relative terms, I'd say his Int should be higher than his Cha.

And I see no particular reason why any of these builds should be tied to any starting array. We're trying to represent the characters as stat blocks, not build optimised PCs for people to play.

hamishspence

2018-02-10, 03:09 PM

The point is that the arrays define the average people of the world. Most 1st level NPCs will have a 13 as their best starting stat. A very few will have a 15 as their best starting stat. And only "PCs" will have higher.

strangebloke

2018-02-10, 03:10 PM

I think someone mentioned he should have abnormally high Con? Like maybe even 20? From what I can remember he was described as very tanky. And it took like 5 metric tonnes of poison to take him down.

And he didn't even die to the poison. The guy is straight up the tankiest 'normal' character in ASOIAF, leaving aside freaks like Hodor and Gregor.

I think your statblock looks great, the_brazenburn. Belwas is a BEAST.

Knaight

2018-02-10, 03:11 PM

And I see no particular reason why any of these builds should be tied to any starting array. We're trying to represent the characters as stat blocks, not build optimised PCs for people to play.

It's not that they should be, it's that in setting a 13 is supposed to actually be pretty impressive. There's some real number inflation going on with these characters, both in terms of being way too high level and in having stupid high attributes all around. There's a couple that deserve it; Littlefinger, Tywin, Tyrion, and Varys probably should have very high intelligence; Gregor and Robert probably should have very high strength, Rhaegar, Daenerys, and Jon Snow probably should have very high charisma, etc. Most characters though? Most of them can get by with a 13 for their best stat.

hamishspence

2018-02-10, 03:12 PM

It's not that they should be, it's that in setting a 13 is supposed to actually be pretty impressive.

My guess is that after deciding that the Lord Of Light's representatives are best defined as divine casters, they then picked Paladin for him rather than cleric because he's more martially skilled than she is, and then decided that, as the Paladin's prime requisite, Charisma had to be his best stat.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-10, 03:18 PM

a 13 is supposed to actually be pretty impressive.

Yeah. I think Stannis' Intelligence is sort of impressive (I'd have settled for 12).

My guess is that after deciding that the Lord Of Light's representatives are best defined as divine casters, they then picked Paladin for him rather than cleric because he's more martially skilled than she is, and then decided that, as the Paladin's prime requisite, Charisma had to be his best stat.

I suspect you're right. I'd still suggest that the OP does not follow this logic, though.

hamishspence

2018-02-10, 03:20 PM

Littlefinger, Tywin, Tyrion, and Varys probably should have very high intelligence; Gregor and Robert probably should have very high strength, Rhaegar, Daenerys, and Jon Snow probably should have very high charisma, etc.

Dragon Magazine only statted a few.

Jon: Str 13, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16
Melisandre: Str 11, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16
Tyrion: Str 13, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 9
Sandor: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 7
Stannis: Str 17, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 17
Daenerys: Str 11, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 15

So Tyrion is high Int, Jon is high Cha, as is Daenerys.

Knaight

2018-02-10, 03:23 PM

Dragon Magazine only statted a few.

Jon: Str 13, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16
Melisandre: Str 11, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16
Tyrion: Str 13, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 9
Sandor: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 7
Stannis: Str 17, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 17
Daenerys: Str 11, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 15

So Tyrion is high Int, Jon is high Cha, as is Daenerys.

My point is that a lot of the characters shouldn't be so high. Just look at this list - Melisandre has Str 11 and Dex 14? Why? She's a scholar and a priest, there's no sign either of those are particularly impressive for her chosen vocation, if anything they should be low. Sandor has Dex 16? Sandor? Has there ever been a sign of him being particularly dexterous? So on and so forth.

hamishspence

2018-02-10, 03:24 PM

They probably used the elite array for all, added points as the characters levelled up, and subtracted a point for Sandor for some reason.

For Melisandre I would guess Dex is high because she's an unarmored caster and they need Dex.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-12, 10:57 AM

Sandor "The Hound" Clegane is finished! As always, comment on your thoughts, and if you have a request for tomorrow's post. If you have one you want, ask soon, because I'm going on vacation next week.

Vogie

2018-02-12, 11:02 AM

Maybe using the UA Brute fighter will allow more variation than just a parade of Champions. Cavalier would also be acceptable for people like the Hound who are also used to fighting on horseback...

the_brazenburn

2018-02-12, 11:05 AM

Maybe using the UA Brute fighter will allow more variation than just a parade of Champions. Cavalier would also be acceptable for people like the Hound who are also used to fighting on horseback...

Fighting on horseback? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember the Hound ever fighting on horseback (outside of tourneys).

And I would consider Brute, but I'm worried about the balance. I probably will use that for Gregor, but the Hound doesn't quite fit. I do understand where you're coming from, though.

Vogie

2018-02-12, 11:21 AM

Fighting on horseback? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember the Hound ever fighting on horseback (outside of tourneys).

And I would consider Brute, but I'm worried about the balance. I probably will use that for Gregor, but the Hound doesn't quite fit. I do understand where you're coming from, though.

The fact that so many were tournament-level knights does lend to that designation, yes. But mechanically, Unwavering Mark and Warding Maneuver would work just as well on foot in the battlefield. I actually thought of the Cavalier for Sandor thinking of him fighting alongside Arya in the tavern in Storm of Swords (Season 4 episode 1, I think).

white lancer

2018-02-12, 11:34 AM

I think Sandor should be higher level. He's arguably one of the 5 best fighters in Westeros at the time the series starts, and you could make a case for him being on the upper end of that group. Otherwise, I like the build. I think he's probably the closest thing ASOIAF has to a pure Champion Fighter.

Stannis at 17 CHA? They just didn't consider the personalities of these characters at all, did they? One of Stannis's defining traits is the fact that basically nobody actually likes him, aside maybe from Shireen and Davos. Based on personality I'd stick him at no higher than an 8. He's also said to be one of the best generals in Westeros, comparable to Tywin Lannister, so I think higher INT is appropriate.

I don't see why we should be using the average array for these characters. They're the "heroes" of their universe, so their stats should be higher than average IMO.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-12, 12:04 PM

I don't see why we should be using the average array for these characters. They're the "heroes" of their universe, so their stats should be higher than average IMO.

I am using the elite array from the PHB, then factoring in ASI as if I was making a character. Sometimes I'll tweak the stats, but they always average out to the same as a PC of comparable level.

One odd thing I noticed is that they always end up with a CR lower than their level. Is this supposed to happen?

Nidgit

2018-02-12, 12:10 PM

I am using the elite array from the PHB, then factoring in ASI as if I was making a character. Sometimes I'll tweak the stats, but they always average out to the same as a PC of comparable level.

One odd thing I noticed is that they always end up with a CR lower than their level. Is this supposed to happen?

Absolutely. The biggest difference between monsters and PCs of comparable levels is that monsters have much, much more HP. A PC's CR won't be more than 2/3 their level, tops, unless they have a ton of magic gear.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-12, 12:13 PM

Absolutely. The biggest difference between monsters and PCs of comparable levels is that monsters have much, much more HP. A PC's CR won't be more than 2/3 their level, tops, unless they have a ton of magic gear.

They also seem to have a higher DPR, at least according to the DMG tables. On the other hand, it's pretty easy for PCs to get high AC, which makes up for the low HP.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-12, 12:15 PM

I'm considering making Gregor Clegane tomorrow, to complete the set. Would people like this?

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-12, 01:25 PM

I'm considering making Gregor Clegane tomorrow, to complete the set. Would people like this?

I think so!

Fighting on horseback? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember the Hound ever fighting on horseback (outside of tourneys).

The text glosses over it a bit, but all of the Westerosi nobility fight on horseback by default. On my first read-through, I didn't realise this until the Battle of the Fords, when Gregor's elite heavy cavalry unit almost broke through. I think they also mention Beric receiving two fatal lance-wounds from Gregor. As for Sandor, specifically, we know that he led several sallies at the mud gate during the Battle of the Blackwater, which we have to assume are mounted given that Tyrion's later sally is mounted and he'd never have got back into the city alive otherwise. He also rode Micah down right at the beginning of the story.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-12, 01:51 PM

I think so!

Okay, I'll do him tomorrow.

The text glosses over it a bit, but all of the Westerosi nobility fight on horseback by default. On my first read-through, I didn't realise this until the Battle of the Fords, when Gregor's elite heavy cavalry unit almost broke through. I think they also mention Beric receiving two fatal lance-wounds from Gregor. As for Sandor, specifically, we know that he led several sallies at the mud gate during the Battle of the Blackwater, which we have to assume are mounted given that Tyrion's later sally is mounted and he'd never have got back into the city alive otherwise. He also rode Micah down right at the beginning of the story.

True, but the Hound has proven himself to be just as effective on foot as mounted (see the aforementioned tavern battle with Arya). I reserve Cavalier for those who fight almost exclusively while mounted. People like Loras Tyrell might be cavaliers. Clegane isn't.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-13, 12:24 PM

Gregor Clegane is up!

Any requests for later builds this week?

GlenSmash!

2018-02-13, 02:39 PM

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-13, 02:57 PM

strangebloke

2018-02-13, 03:07 PM

I feel you've undercooked Gregor Clegane there. A lower CR than Barristan and Ned? My recollection is that there isn't a single person on the planet who can stand up to Gregor in a fair fight. Jaime describes him as inhuman. Bronn point-blank refuses to fight him. He kills Beric twice. He literally walked through an artillery barrage at the Fords. Oberyn dosed him with enough poison to take down an elephant - and Gregor still kills him. I'm just not feeling that from that stat block.

You got the alignment right though. :smalltongue:

The more you look at them, the more those Dragon stats look like garbage. :smallyuk:

I assent to all of this.

The Hound is a serious badass who is widely considered to be one of the best fighters in the realm.
Gregor is a mythic monster who aside from being rather slow, is pretty much totally unbeatable.

To be fair, though, lots of people killed Beric.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-13, 03:16 PM

To be fair, though, lots of people killed Beric.

Haha, true. But I think he got reckless towards the end there. And weren't a coupe of them executions? The two times Gregor beat him, he was (I believe) fighting in earnest, and Beric is clearly no slouch. It looked like was out-fighting the Hound until his sword snapped. Plus by this point he's probably got more live-combat experience than anyone else in the land (especially experience fighting Gregor - not something many people can say).

white lancer

2018-02-13, 03:20 PM

strangebloke

2018-02-13, 03:24 PM

I think both Clegane brothers should be more powerful than Ned Stark, at least. IIRC, Ned was solid but not special as a swordsman, while nobody wanted to fight the Cleganes (aside from Oberyn, of course). Really only a handful of characters even belong in the same conversation as them in combat.

Ned is hard to stat. He did hold his own against Arthur Dayne, the 'greatest knight who Ned ever saw' but that was a fight he lost. He lost pretty handily to Jaimie as well. He's no slouch, but he's not, uh... his success rate isn't great.

Knaight

2018-02-13, 03:41 PM

Stannis has a higher strength than the Hound? Nothing I read in the books would indicate that.

It's sketchy, but we do see Robert described as a massive man with a massive weapon, Renly being described as much like him in physique, and Stannis being described as somewhat similar, while just being huge and brawny is presented as a common Baratheon trait. Stannis probably should have high strength, as should the Hound. It could really go either way.

The Hound is just one of many sizeable warriors (mostly knights other than him) who are also pretty strong. What sets him apart is being an incredibly skilled, incredibly aggressive fighter.

white lancer

2018-02-13, 03:41 PM

Yeah, it's true. Losing to Jaime and Arthur Dayne is nothing to be ashamed of, for sure (the fact that he survived that 7-on-3 against the Kingsguard is probably a mark in the "plus" column for Ned). But other than that, we don't really see him fighting. I think I remember seeing a GRRM interview where he stated that Ned was a much better general than a fighter and was only an average swordsman, so I've always thought of Ned as being about as good as your average trained fighter (maybe a little better because of the Kingsguard fight and his experience).

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-13, 03:57 PM

Re: Ned vs. Jamie in the streets of King's Landing... I don't remember the books that well, but my memory is saying Jaime didn't beat Ned, though he probably did have the edge over him; Jaime won the fight because Ned a) was demoralised after seeing Jory Cassel die and b) took a Sneak Attack from one of Jaime's men at a critical moment.

Plus wasn't Ned first into the breach during the Greyjoy rebellion? That must have been a pretty intense fight to come through unscathed.

So I'd argue that the evidence from the text does support Ned as a very respectable swordsman. Not Clegane level, obviously, but well above average.

white lancer

2018-02-13, 04:21 PM

Thought it was Thoros of Myr and Jorah Mormont who were first through the breach in the Greyjoy rebellion? I don't remember much of what GRRM wrote about that particular war, but I don't recall Ned being noted as especially impressive there. Point taken on the Jaime fight, though--I agree that it wasn't a conclusive fight.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-13, 04:52 PM

It's sketchy, but we do see Robert described as a massive man with a massive weapon, Renly being described as much like him in physique, and Stannis being described as somewhat similar, while just being huge and brawny is presented as a common Baratheon trait. Stannis probably should have high strength, as should the Hound. It could really go either way.

The Hound is just one of many sizeable warriors (mostly knights other than him) who are also pretty strong. What sets him apart is being an incredibly skilled, incredibly aggressive fighter.

Robert in his prime sure, and even Renly, but I don't remember a description of Stannis that had him at the same size.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-13, 08:33 PM

hamishspence

2018-02-14, 06:11 AM

Robert in his prime sure, and even Renly, but I don't remember a description of Stannis that had him at the same size.

Jon (average height?) describes Stannis as "towering over" him.

Maester Cressen's description, I'm told, emphasised Stannis being large and broad shouldered (though thinner than he normally was).

the_brazenburn

2018-02-14, 10:13 AM

As a Valentine's Day joke, and because I'm sick of making Strength fighters, I've statted out Shae :smallbiggrin:.

Comments on whether I made her correctly?

As a serious note, I could use suggestions for my next build. I'll make Dany tomorrow if there's no other suggestion.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-14, 11:08 AM

Jon (average height?) describes Stannis as "towering over" him.

Maester Cressen's description, I'm told, emphasised Stannis being large and broad shouldered (though thinner than he normally was).

Thinner than he normally was might be the part that's sticking in my mind. I always imagined him being skinny, and that might explain it.

DarthPenance

2018-02-14, 11:20 AM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-14, 12:11 PM

Since you've done so many STR-fighters, how about a dex one?
Oberyn Martell, and have him fight The Mountain

Okay, cool.

Nidgit

2018-02-14, 12:21 PM

GlenSmash!

2018-02-14, 12:44 PM

So, uh, why isn't the Mountain at least part Barbarian? He seems like a Battlerager to me.

I could see Reckless Attack fitting the Hound's very aggressive fighting style too.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-14, 12:58 PM

I would second the idea that Gregor might have some barbarian in him. I don't think it's strictly necessary, since his main thing is his ludicrous Strength score, but it's certainly not inappropriate. Also, in line with strangebloke's "The Hound is a serious badass / Gregor is a mythic monster" line, there's an argument to make him a level 20 barbarian with 24 Strength (the argument being that Gregor is not really a character, but a walking plot device).

One thought on Shae: isn't she a polyglot? I'm fairly sure I remember her having some facility with multiple languages.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-14, 01:26 PM

One thought on Shae: isn't she a polyglot? I'm fairly sure I remember her having some facility with multiple languages.

I don't remember that. It could be accurate...

It probably doesn't matter, though. I made her as a joke. Sorry, folks, you'll have to wait till tomorrow to get your crunchy stat block fix.

Vogie

2018-02-14, 01:31 PM

So, uh, why isn't the Mountain at least part Barbarian? He seems like a Battlerager to me.

I might suggest Oberyn as part Kensai Monk, or just giving him a bit of home brew. He's definitely a Dex fighter but his iconic fight is with a spear. Swashbuckler seems particularly appropriate if we're making exceptions.

Yeah, I could certainly see 3 levels in Berzerker Barbarian. That gives him the Frenzied Rage ability, which makes up for losing the third attack from a level 11 fighter.

I see Oberyn more as a Ranger. He wears armor, and still has a fighting style. Probably I'd make him a Hunter Ranger fighter. That'd give him Colossus Slayer and Multi-Attack Defense, which would show how he's able to survive the beating for so long.

white lancer

2018-02-14, 01:43 PM

I do like Berserker for Gregor...only problem being that he definitely wears armor, but then so would just about everyone else in this setting.

Kensai Monk is the direction I'd take Oberyn, perhaps with some sort of Rogue multiclass. Swashbuckler would be good since he's a very charismatic guy and a good one-on-one fighter, but Assassin gives him poison proficiencies.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-14, 03:11 PM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-15, 10:15 AM

As promised, Oberyn Martell is up. This one was hard to make, and the nova DPR is through the roof. Please comment on whether you like it or not.

I won't be taking any suggestions today, because I'm going to make Danaerys tomorrow. I feel like I've put off the Khaleesi too long anyway.

DarthPenance

2018-02-15, 10:53 AM

Oberyn actually is pretty cool, and I think considering his abilities and stats, he would probably win against Gregor.
Looking foward to Daenerys.

Nidgit

2018-02-15, 11:16 AM

Oberyn's probably a bit too strong. He should only be attacking twice without spending a bonus action, for instance, though I'm fine with interpreting the unarmed strike as a spear butt hit.

Gregor seems to be missing some Brute features. He should be hitting for 1d6 extra damage per hit, for instance, and he needs an extra fighting style (probably Defense)

the_brazenburn

2018-02-15, 12:02 PM

white lancer

2018-02-15, 12:22 PM

Oberyn looks awesome. I think he was always going to be one of the more interesting builds, since he's one of the only "unique" fighters in the series. Is the History proficiency a reference to his studies at the Citadel?

I'm interested to see the direction you take Daenerys, as I don't know what I'd do with it. Draconic Sorcerer obviously fits thematically (and with her high CHA), but she doesn't really cast spells, so...

the_brazenburn

2018-02-15, 12:44 PM

GlenSmash!

2018-02-15, 12:56 PM

I am planning on a low-level Draconic Sorcerer, but with spells refluffed as dragon effects or some sort of mundane thing.

So like Burning Hands would be Drogon tossing some fire around?

I like it!

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-15, 03:05 PM

"unique" fighters in the series

What about stats for someone who is noted more for their generalship than their individual fighting ability, like Randyll Tarly? Would he be an interesting build to see? In the absence of an official warlord class, how would you represent him?

the_brazenburn

2018-02-15, 03:18 PM

What about stats for someone who is noted more for their generalship than their individual fighting ability, like Randyll Tarly? Would he be an interesting build to see? In the absence of an official warlord class, how would you represent him?

Probably Mastermind/Battlemaster. Mastermind gives the ability to maneuver your allies around, and Battlemaster has all the techniques.

Tarly might have some ranger, though.

DarthPenance

2018-02-15, 03:20 PM

Talking about Randyll, I think what would the stats for Sam? Would he have a class or be like Shae?

white lancer

2018-02-15, 03:24 PM

Man, builds like that are super tricky, because D&D rarely goes into the realm of commanding armies and so it doesn't really have mechanical abilities to reflect that. You could do a little better in earlier editions with classes like the Warlord or 3.5's Marshal, or even the NPC classes like Expert or Noble, but there's not really an analogue for that in 5e. I think Tywin and even Stannis are similar characters to Randyll, though they probably were all knights (or at least had combat training), so they wouldn't be completely helpless in battle. I do like the Mastermind suggestion, though--it's not perfect, but it might be the best we can do.

strangebloke

2018-02-15, 03:25 PM

Talking about Randyll, I think what would the stats for Sam? Would he have a class or be like Shae?

Simple. He's a prodigy level 1 ranger with crap physical stats.

Guy's a wuss compared to Jon and co. but he's probably tougher and better trained than your average farmer.

Nidgit

2018-02-15, 03:56 PM

Talking about Randyll, I think what would the stats for Sam? Would he have a class or be like Shae?
Sam is a Wizard with one level in Ranger.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-15, 04:11 PM

Sam is a Wizard with one level in Ranger.

Isn't Sam going to Old Town to study under Marwyn? He might be about to put on a few more levels of wizard in the next book...

the_brazenburn

2018-02-15, 04:43 PM

Isn't Sam going to Old Town to study under Marwyn? He might be about to put on a few more levels of wizard in the next book...

When does the next book come out, anyway? I've been waiting ever since I finished A Dance with Dragons.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-15, 04:53 PM

When does the next book come out, anyway? I've been waiting ever since I finished A Dance with Dragons.

If we're lucky, 2019. I wouldn't count on it though.

nickl_2000

2018-02-15, 06:31 PM

If we're lucky, 2019. I wouldn't count on it though.

If we are lucky it will be sometime before GRRM does, but the way it's going right now it won't be

Ketiara

2018-02-15, 07:10 PM

yeah, the sooner you build ned, the sooner people will start killing him again. Give the guy a break... :smalltongue:

hahahaha :d

the_brazenburn

2018-02-16, 09:39 AM

Daenerys is up! My interpretation is fairly loose; please comment if you see fit.

I'm not going to be around next week, so I won't take any suggestions for then. Feel free to leave some for the week after that, though, and I'll see them when I return.

DarthPenance

2018-02-16, 09:52 AM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-16, 10:04 AM

Daenerys seem pretty good, but I think it's lacking her fire resistance, I think Draconic Sorcerer gets it at level 6, so you could up her level a bit, which would also give her acess to Flight, to simulate the dragon flight.
Additionally you could change the Cloud of Daggers spell for the Dragon Breath from Xanathar's, seems like it would make a little more sense.
I know she is hard to make as there really isn't a class that could truly represent her in the books, possibly only homebrew with the summoner, but it's really good.

Hmmm...

3rd level spells would be good, especially Fireball and Fly, and the fact that she gets access to Fire Resistance is a plus. On the other hand, I'm worried about the power spike at 5th, when she gets 3rd level spells. As I offered to Ninja_Prawn earlier, I'll change it if I can get somebody to second your opinion.

I have no argument with Dragon's Breath. That's been changed already.

white lancer

2018-02-16, 11:34 AM

DarthPenance

2018-02-16, 11:55 AM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-16, 12:04 PM

It's worth noting that book-Daenerys isn't immune to fire. So I don't think the fire resistance is strictly necessary...but if we were simulating her dragon connection via spells anyway, having Fly and Fireball seems fine.

Yeah, the Sith Redemption Paladin is correct. Book Dany may not be completely immune, but she is known to wade into huge bonfires and take little to no damage. The final scene of A Game of Thrones, in which she gives birth to the dragons in Khal Drogo's funeral pyre, is emblematic of this.

strangebloke

2018-02-16, 12:12 PM

Yeah, the Sith Redemption Paladin is correct. Book Dany may not be completely immune, but she is known to wade into huge bonfires and take little to no damage. The final scene of A Game of Thrones, in which she gives birth to the dragons in Khal Drogo's funeral pyre, is emblematic of this.

According to GRR she was only immune in that case because of the blood magic she was performing.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-16, 12:21 PM

According to GRR she was only immune in that case because of the blood magic she was performing.

Oh. Well, I still think it fits thematically, even if there isn't any textual evidence to back it up. My main reason for not buffing Dany a bit is that I consider her a low-CR NPC who happens to have a lot of powerful minions (Dothraki, the Unsullied, the dragons), and Fireball just sort of upsets that balance.

Nidgit

2018-02-16, 12:49 PM

Daenerys is generally fairly heat-resistant. She likes ridiculously hot baths, for instance, and I feel like I remember her not getting too burned in the Great Pit of Daznak.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-16, 01:08 PM

I think I saw somewhere that all Targaryens are naturally resistant to heat; that they don't burn as easily as other people. Must be useful, given how fair their skin is...

Vogie

2018-02-16, 02:04 PM

According to GRR she was only immune in that case because of the blood magic she was performing.

This is different from in the HBO Series, where her body is completely immune to fire and heat, seen several times, and seems to be based on her line in the first book/season of "Fire cannot kill a dragon".

the_brazenburn

2018-02-16, 02:33 PM

This is different from in the HBO Series, where her body is completely immune to fire and heat, seen several times, and seems to be based on her line in the first book/season of "Fire cannot kill a dragon".

In general, I prefer the books to the show (which I've never seen). In this case, however, I think GRRM is just pushing the low/evil magic feel of GoT, and I prefer the show's explanation. As requested, I'll bump Dany up to 6th level.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-18, 07:06 PM

Well, I'm not going to make any more builds this week, but I'd love to see some suggestions for when I come back. I've exhausted the ones I had been planning.

I also don't want this thread to die while I'm on vaca, so bump!

the_brazenburn

2018-02-22, 03:42 PM

I think I saw somewhere that all Targaryens are naturally resistant to heat; that they don't burn as easily as other people. Must be useful, given how fair their skin is...

Actually, I think they're supposed to be albinos, distorted by generations of inbreeding. Drow might be a reasonable approximation, if you substitute their spider fetish for a dragon fetish.

Side note: Since nobody has any particular preference towards the next build, I'll do Tyrion. Probably going to be a non-singing Bard.

DarthPenance

2018-02-22, 03:50 PM

Actually, I think they're supposed to be albinos, distorted by generations of inbreeding. Drow might be a reasonable approximation, if you substitute their spider fetish for a dragon fetish.

Side note: Since nobody has any particular preference towards the next build, I'll do Tyrion. Probably going to be a non-singing Bard.

Oh, I apologize, I thought you were going to be gone for longer, I do have a suggestion, if possible, since we have done so many close combat characters, how about Bran?

the_brazenburn

2018-02-22, 03:55 PM

Oh, I apologize, I thought you were going to be gone for longer, I do have a suggestion, if possible, since we have done so many close combat characters, how about Bran?

Okay, I'll do him. I kept putting him off earlier, but it's probably time to get him done.

History_buff

2018-02-25, 09:26 PM

Swashbuckler rather than assassin for Oberyn IMO, he has proficiency in poisoner’s kit.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-26, 04:44 AM

he has proficiency in poisoner’s kit.

Doesn't really show up in a stat block though, tool proficiencies.

Bran could be interesting, depending on which point in the story you take.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 08:48 AM

Doesn't really show up in a stat block though, tool proficiencies.

Bran could be interesting, depending on which point in the story you take.

I was thinking either GOOlock or Divination Wizard. Druid could also work, possibly.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 10:54 AM

Bran Stark is finished! Let me know what you think of him, and also tell me if you have a suggestion for later in the week.

Vogie

2018-02-26, 11:21 AM

Bran Stark is finished! Let me know what you think of him, and also tell me if you have a suggestion for later in the week.

So he's a Chain warlock with Voice of the Chain Master, and Summer is the Familiar? Or a Tome warlock with book of ancient Secrets and the Find familiar ritual?

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 11:24 AM

So he's a Chain warlock with Voice of the Chain Master, and Summer is the Familiar? Or a Tome warlock with book of ancient Secrets and the Find familiar ritual?

Chainlock. Summer is the familiar.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 12:02 PM

I'm planning to do Hodor tomorrow, to complement Bran. Anybody have a different suggestion, or does everyone like this?

If it's important, I might do Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Jaime later this week.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-26, 01:41 PM

Bran Stark is finished! Let me know what you think of him, and also tell me if you have a suggestion for later in the week.

Aside from dissonant whispers and clairvoyance, are any of those spells attested in the text? I can't really bring any instances of them to mind.

Also I might have gone for 5 ft base movement speed, since he can sort of drag himself along very slowly.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 02:05 PM

Aside from dissonant whispers and clairvoyance, are any of those spells attested in the text? I can't really bring any instances of them to mind.

Also I might have gone for 5 ft base movement speed, since he can sort of drag himself along very slowly.

Not particularly. There's not much attested to in the books, but some spells are needed to fill out the warlock chassis, so I picked the most relevant-seeming ones.

And you may have a point about the movement speed. I'll change that.

What does everybody think of the alignment? I thought neutral good seemed about right, though Bran hasn't had as many morally difficult choices to make as some of the other characters.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-26, 02:16 PM

Not particularly. There's not much attested to in the books, but some spells are needed to fill out the warlock chassis, so I picked the most relevant-seeming ones.

To be honest, I'd have been tempted to model greensight and warging as innate powers. So, an innate spellcasting feature with dominate beast, dominate person, divination, commune with nature, scrying, etc. And like, not give him any class levels at all.

What does everybody think of the alignment? I thought neutral good seemed about right, though Bran hasn't had as many morally difficult choices to make as some of the other characters.

It is tough, because he's so young and hasn't had to make many decisions. I'd probably lean towards NG, yeah. I can't recall him wishing much harm on anyone, he's on board with he self-sacrifice necessary to become the new Bloodraven for the good of Westeros, and he's kind of naïve, which is something you get sometimes with NG people.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 02:22 PM

To be honest, I'd have been tempted to model greensight and warging as innate powers. So, an innate spellcasting feature with dominate beast, dominate person, divination, commune with nature, scrying, etc. And like, not give him any class levels at all.

True. But that's a little too easy. If I do that, I'll be tempted to do that for everybody else.

Plus, Bran is clearly a PC (look at all the POVs he gets, even though he's one of the least interesting characters in the series), whereas innate powers are more of an NPC thing.

It is tough, because he's so young and hasn't had to make many decisions. I'd probably lean towards NG, yeah. I can't recall him wishing much harm on anyone, he's on board with he self-sacrifice necessary to become the new Bloodraven for the good of Westeros, and he's kind of naïve, which is something you get sometimes with NG people.

All right, NG was the right choice.

I'd be inclined to say that naïvety can be an LG thing too, especially in the young. People who believe that everybody is just as lawful as they are.

white lancer

2018-02-26, 02:32 PM

the_brazenburn

2018-02-26, 02:36 PM

I think you could easily go LG for Bran as well. Given who raised him, that's probably where he is likely to default...though I don't think we see much for him on the Law-Chaos axis either way. His initial dream was to become a classic knight, which may be an argument toward Lawful for him.

Possibly, though he had to adapt pretty quickly. I'd say that he was LG at the very beginning, then became NG after his fall and failed assassination.

IThe build seems fine to me--it runs into the classic ASOIAF vs. D&D problem of magical powers, but it's not too crazy for what Bran has been able to do.

Thanks!

IJust wish there was some way of giving it that nature flavor that is associated with warging/greensight.

I originally said druid, but it doesn't really work mechanically.

II don't think Hodor would have any class levels. He's really just a big commoner.

Yeah, I guess. Although it's hinted that he has some giant blood, I would consider using ogre stats.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-27, 08:33 AM

Okay, since Hodor is a no-go, I'll make Tyrion stats today. Any objections?

the_brazenburn

2018-02-27, 10:57 AM

Tyrion Lannister is finished! As usual, comment on my build and offer any suggestions for tomorrow's subject.

This stat block will probably be a controversial one.

DarthPenance

2018-02-27, 11:54 AM

Okay, since Hodor is a no-go, I'll make Tyrion stats today. Any objections?

No problem, I wonder how Tyrion would be.
Suggestion for after him could be either Bronn or Jaime, since you've done a few non-warrior ones.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-27, 12:06 PM

No problem, I wonder how Tyrion would be.
Suggestion for after him could be either Bronn or Jaime, since you've done a few non-warrior ones.

Yeah, I'm planning on doing Jaime for sure, and possibly Bronn as well.

Tyrion is up, by the way. What do you think?

DarthPenance

2018-02-27, 12:55 PM

I think he's good, however I don't know if his level is too high, I mean, it's higher than Daenerys, I know that levels don't necesserily signify power, but in the world of GoT I think he could be level 5 or 6.
Resisting alcohol is a con save correct? I don't know if he would have more resistance to alcohol since he drinks so much, but if possible.
Anyway it's just my opinion, I still think you're doing a very good job with the characters, I look foward to the next.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-27, 01:13 PM

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-27, 02:32 PM

in the world of GoT I think he could be level 5 or 6.

This is a problem we've run up against before. GRRM's world is low fantasy, and really doesn't line up very well to high fantasy settings like FR and DL. Pretty much everyone in the books is either level 1 or has no levels at all (certainly Tyrion would be a level 1 rogue). A select few would be level 2 or 3. A couple of the true spellcasters might touch the mid levels, but that's it.

That would be really boring for this exercise though, so it makes sense to inflate things a bit.

That said, I agree that Tyrion may have been inflated too far.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-27, 03:54 PM

This is a problem we've run up against before. GRRM's world is low fantasy, and really doesn't line up very well to high fantasy settings like FR and DL. Pretty much everyone in the books is either level 1 or has no levels at all (certainly Tyrion would be a level 1 rogue). A select few would be level 2 or 3. A couple of the true spellcasters might touch the mid levels, but that's it.

That would be really boring for this exercise though, so it makes sense to inflate things a bit.

That said, I agree that Tyrion may have been inflated too far.

Maybe. On the other hand, it seems wrong to have one of the most important protagonists be less than CR 2. Most of his spells and effects aren't combat-effective.

Knaight

2018-02-27, 04:14 PM

This is a problem we've run up against before. GRRM's world is low fantasy, and really doesn't line up very well to high fantasy settings like FR and DL. Pretty much everyone in the books is either level 1 or has no levels at all (certainly Tyrion would be a level 1 rogue). A select few would be level 2 or 3. A couple of the true spellcasters might touch the mid levels, but that's it.

More than that, the level framework simply doesn't work here. Plenty of people have combat skills consistent with high level characters, albeit without HP. Plenty of people are very skilled in noncombat tasks, which in 5e requires a high level rogue or bard. Worse, the skill selection doesn't match up. It's fundamentally a bad model.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-27, 06:36 PM

More than that, the level framework simply doesn't work here. Plenty of people have combat skills consistent with high level characters, albeit without HP. Plenty of people are very skilled in noncombat tasks, which in 5e requires a high level rogue or bard. Worse, the skill selection doesn't match up. It's fundamentally a bad model.

The Prodigy feat helps with someone being skilled but not a Rogue or a Bard, but it obviously won't help someone be an expert at a wide variety of skill, like a Maester.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-28, 08:58 AM

Today is Jaime Day! I know he's probably a fighter, but I'm highly tempted to make him an Oathbreaker paladin...

the_brazenburn

2018-02-28, 10:56 AM

Jaime's up, hooray! As usual, comments on the build or suggestions for tomorrow are appreciated.

If I don't get any suggestions, I'll do Littlefinger tomorrow.

Zonugal

2018-02-28, 11:39 AM

Today is Jaime Day! I know he's probably a fighter, but I'm highly tempted to make him an Oathbreaker paladin...

By what right does the wolf judge the lion? By what right?

the_brazenburn

2018-02-28, 02:30 PM

Jaime's up, hooray! As usual, comments on the build or suggestions for tomorrow are appreciated.

If I don't get any suggestions, I'll do Littlefinger tomorrow.

Nobody cares about Jaime?

GlenSmash!

2018-02-28, 02:42 PM

Nobody cares about Jaime?

I find his character arc to be one of the most interesting and enjoyable in the series, however as he has been somewhat relegated to a noncombatant I'm less interested in is statblock.

the_brazenburn

2018-02-28, 02:44 PM

I find his character arc to be one of the most interesting and enjoyable in the series, however as he has been somewhat relegated to a noncombatant I'm less interested in is statblock.

Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. My stat block is combat-relevant, though.

GlenSmash!

2018-02-28, 02:50 PM

Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. My stat block is combat-relevant, though.

Oh I know.

Just explaining how it's more interesting to me to think of what would a 5e Mountain or Hound look like because they are defined by fighting, as opposed to Jaime who has to come to terms with the fact that he is no longer defined by his combat prowess (which consequently has made him a more compelling character).

Ninja_Prawn

2018-02-28, 03:14 PM

Nobody cares about Jaime?

https://cinemafreakpage.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/jaime-lannister-3.jpg
https://em.wattpad.com/5f89314afc20b72b4de3897af30496a86e27ab76/687474703a2f2f7570726f78782e66696c65732e776f726470 726573732e636f6d2f323031332f30362f6a61696d652d6365 727365692e6769663f773d363530?s=fit&h=360&w=360&q=80
https://data.whicdn.com/images/115977636/large.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qViBM8FO_SU/T8IA10pCmOI/AAAAAAAAAqM/MWZkQq_5Cm4/s1600/vlcsnap-2012-05-27-12h08m11s64.png
http://78.media.tumblr.com/1a96559abf948cf93753724038de975f/tumblr_mzykihd6km1r0r176o1_500.gif
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2528678.1455230109!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/jaime-lannister.jpg
https://pre00.deviantart.net/575a/th/pre/f/2017/227/9/b/jaime_lannister_and_bronn__gif_spoil__by_chris_val entine_x-dbk41n6.png

the_brazenburn

2018-03-01, 10:15 AM

Littlefinger is posted!

I've been noticing a recent lack of interest in this thread. Do people want me to keep making stat blocks?

the_brazenburn

2018-03-02, 09:03 AM

With no recent responses, I'm not going to make a stat block today, or over the weekend. If people want this thread to continue, let me know!

GlenSmash!

2018-03-02, 11:53 AM

I've been noticing a recent lack of interest in this thread. Do people want me to keep making stat blocks?

Maybe all the interesting statblocks are done?

Or maybe a thread can't live past 7 pages without more controversy?

the_brazenburn

2018-03-02, 12:05 PM

Maybe all the interesting statblocks are done?

Or maybe a thread can't live past 7 pages without more controversy?

So, you don't want me to make more?

Ninja_Prawn

2018-03-02, 12:35 PM

Well, the novelty's worn off a bit, but if you're enjoying writing them, you should keep going.

Or move on to a different media franchise?

the_brazenburn

2018-03-02, 12:43 PM

Well, the novelty's worn off a bit, but if you're enjoying writing them, you should keep going.

Or move on to a different media franchise?

I somewhat enjoy making them, but it gets dull if people don't seem to care.

I might move on to a different franchise if this one dies off. Any suggestions?

Amdy_vill

2018-03-02, 12:46 PM

Knaight

2018-03-02, 03:58 PM

i feel snow is more of a fighter than a ranger. he never does any ranger like things. yes he has a pet but besides that he feels more fighter. maybe give him just enough levels to get a pet an then the rest in fighter

I consider the whole idea of using class levels a questionable decision here, but Snow also went ranging north of the wall in hostile environments repeatedly.

Ninja_Prawn

2018-03-02, 04:32 PM

Knaight

2018-03-02, 04:43 PM

Mhm. I think the rangers of the Night's Watch (plus Jon) in general have some of the aspects of D&D rangers, but not all of them. Part of the problem is that there isn't a huge difference, conceptually, between a fighter and a ranger. The main thing is 1/2 casting, and there are aspects of the NW that verge on magical (given the general low magic level of the setting).

They're generally one of many examples where ASoIF isn't a D&D setting, the characters aren't D&D characters, and as such the D&D classes don't fit them. The mechanics also generally don't, but there's at least a closer approximation to be found in there.

the_brazenburn

2018-05-01, 07:43 AM

nickl_2000

2018-05-01, 07:50 AM

I've left this long enough.

I kind of want to start making a few more of these, and I'm hoping that people will regain some interest since it's been dead for a while.

I'll probably make Melisandre next, as she's one that I somehow forgot to stat before. Hopefully she'll be up on Thursday.

It might be helpful to get some input on Melisandre's class, as I've heard some previous dissention on that topic. As far as I know, I'd make her a mid-high level Light Cleric, but I think somebody mentioned an Arcane Trickster with Magic Initiate? I could also see some sort of Bard as a possibility.

Hope you enjoy!

What about Divine Soul Sorcerer with Kossuth as her deity (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kossuth)? I think that would be just about perfect for her.

She has cast Resurrection spells (or at least raise from dead), so she needs to be at least 9th level.

the_brazenburn

2018-05-01, 08:02 AM

What about Divine Soul Sorcerer with Kossuth as her deity (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kossuth)? I think that would be just about perfect for her.

She has cast Resurrection spells (or at least raise from dead), so she needs to be at least 9th level.

That actually makes a lot of sense. That way you can get the fire spells and shadowbinding from Sorcerer and the rezzes for Cleric. Kossuth definitely looks like the right deity or her as well. Thanks for the response!

TheCleverGuy

2018-05-01, 11:17 AM

I've left this long enough.

I kind of want to start making a few more of these, and I'm hoping that people will regain some interest since it's been dead for a while.

I'll probably make Melisandre next, as she's one that I somehow forgot to stat before. Hopefully she'll be up on Thursday.

It might be helpful to get some input on Melisandre's class, as I've heard some previous dissention on that topic. As far as I know, I'd make her a mid-high level Light Cleric, but I think somebody mentioned an Arcane Trickster with Magic Initiate? I could also see some sort of Bard as a possibility.

Hope you enjoy!

I hadn't seen this thread before, but I just spent the last hour or so reading through the entire thing. I love it, and I think you're stats for the most part are dead on.

I think Melisandre makes sense as some mix of Cleric and Sorcerer. She definitely needs to able to cast Srcying or some other "see the future" type spells as rituals. I think high CHA is a must, but just enough WIS to be eligible for the Cleric multiclass, and not much INT.

Can I suggest you do one for Khal Drogo next? Barbarian being the obvious choice for class. I'd go with the Totem Warrior path--you could refluff the Elk totem as Horse.

the_brazenburn

2018-05-01, 12:32 PM

I hadn't seen this thread before, but I just spent the last hour or so reading through the entire thing. I love it, and I think you're stats for the most part are dead on.

I think Melisandre makes sense as some mix of Cleric and Sorcerer. She definitely needs to able to cast Srcying or some other "see the future" type spells as rituals. I think high CHA is a must, but just enough WIS to be eligible for the Cleric multiclass, and not much INT.

Can I suggest you do one for Khal Drogo next? Barbarian being the obvious choice for class. I'd go with the Totem Warrior path--you could refluff the Elk totem as Horse.

Absolutely! The Khal was another significant one I missed out on. I think a Horse Barb would work perfectly. If I'm lucky, he'll be done on Friday.

Glad you liked this thread!

GlenSmash!

2018-05-01, 12:55 PM

Drogo is an interesting guy. He doesn't talk a lot, but I'd argue he is pretty charismatic. Not that he has any Charisma based magic or anything.

Just a pretty charismatic non-magical guy. Also large and strong and all that.

the_brazenburn

2018-05-07, 09:12 AM

Melisandre is taking longer than I thought. I'll hopefully get her done later today.

I also can't sustain the statblock-a-day pace I used before. Tentatively, I'll post new ones twice a week, likely on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Hope people might have regained some interest!

the_brazenburn

2018-05-07, 12:23 PM

Melisandre's finished! Sorry it took so long. As always, comments are always much appreciated.

I'll hopefully have Khal Drogo done by Thursday.

the_brazenburn

2018-05-07, 01:23 PM

Nobody? I thought Melisandre would be a popular choice.

nickl_2000

2018-05-07, 01:26 PM

Nobody? I thought Melisandre would be a popular choice.

I don't see anything posted. Is it at the beginning or something?

the_brazenburn

2018-05-07, 01:29 PM

I don't see anything posted. Is it at the beginning or something?

All the stat blocks are on the OP. Sorry for the mix-up!

the_brazenburn

2018-05-10, 09:40 AM

Here you go, CleverGuy. Khal Drogo is finished!

His stats are on the OP, as always.

Any suggestions for Tuesdays stats, anybody?

TheCleverGuy

2018-05-10, 11:03 AM

Drogo is awesome, and Melisandre is great too. Is "Conjure Shadow Demon" a real spell?

I think you've got most of the major characters done, except maybe Samwell Tarly. I think I'd suggest Knowledge Cleric for him, but it might be sorta boring.

the_brazenburn

2018-05-10, 11:05 AM

Drogo is awesome, and Melisandre is great too.

Thanks!

Is "Conjure Shadow Demon" a real spell?

Yep, it's from UA.

I think you've got most of the major characters done, except maybe Samwell Tarly. I think I'd suggest Knowledge Cleric for him, but it might be sorta boring.

Maybe...

I could always do some interesting minor characters too.

Stormborn1929

2022-08-30, 06:58 PM

I was truly impressed with your character make ups, was wondering if at all possible you could do the companions of the hall 5e rules Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, catti-bri and regis

truemane

2022-08-31, 07:40 AM

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