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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Casting mineralize warrior on a familiar



PeyEll
2018-02-06, 02:52 PM
I want to use the spell mineralize warrior from the underdark book on my familiar but the spell targets humanoids only. Often, such things are not a problem for the familiar since the "share spells" feature allows you to cast effects on your familiar even when the spell doesn't normally effect creatures of the familiar's type.

My first question, can you choose to cast a spell on yourself (that doesn't have a target of "you") and choose to have it affect only your familiar? I don't particularly want the mineral warrior template myself.

Another problem is that mineralize warrior has a weakly worded clause that implies, or maybe denotes, that you cannot cast it on yourself (see below). This is opposed to a similar spell, Nar Fiendbond, which states plainly, and not in parenthesis, that you cannot cast it on yourself for reasons they don't need to explain.

"The subject may have no more Hit Dice than you do, and it must be restrained in a coffinlike enclosure of stone for the duration of the casting.
(Thus, you cannot be the subject of your own spell)."

Since this parenthetical aside words it as a consequence of the normal casting of the spell rather than a hard fast rule about how the magic of the spell works, is it possible that you could cast it on your familiar through yourself as a conduit and only the final recipient (the familiar) needs to be motionless in the coffin?

Similarly, could you conceivably cast it on yourself if you use still spell metamagic (which would allow you to cast spells even while restrained in a coffin)?

If you could cast it on yourself through still spell, would it be possible to cast it in conjunction with a contingency spell and "share" the contingency spell with the familiar using the second option under share spells (which allows you to have personal spells effect the familiar and not yourself) so that only the familiar gains the template?

Finally, if I somehow manage to pull any of this off, will the XP cost be based off of my HD because I had to channel the spell through share spells, based off of my HD anyway since my familiar effectively has my HD for calculating most effects, or based off of the original creature's HD (6 in this case because it is a winter wolf)? I'm pretty sure I won't have to pay for our combined HD since the cost is based off of the creature that is actually the ultimate recipient of the spell "XP Cost: 250 XP per HD of the mineral warrior created."

Crake
2018-02-06, 05:25 PM
From reading mineralize warrior, I don't believe you can cast it on the familiar and not have it also affect yourself. Arguably though, you could cast polymorph on yourself, then cast mineralize warrior, have it affect both yourself and the familiar, and then when you revert to your normal form, you'd lose the mineral warrior template?

Lapak
2018-02-06, 05:30 PM
Except he explicitly cannot cast the spell with himself included as a target because of the ‘target immobilized in a coffin’ clause.

sleepyphoenixx
2018-02-06, 05:40 PM
You're overcomplicating it. Just cast Polymorph Any Object on your familiar to turn it into a humanoid, then cast Mineralize Warrior on it.
Casting Polymorph can also work if you manage to raise your CL to 31 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444635-Raising-Caster-Level) and Extend Spell (possibly from an item like Doppelganger Bile (CC)).

Crake
2018-02-06, 05:49 PM
You're overcomplicating it. Just cast Polymorph Any Object on your familiar to turn it into a humanoid, then cast Mineralize Warrior on it.
Casting Polymorph can also work if you manage to raise your CL to 31 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444635-Raising-Caster-Level) and Extend Spell (possibly from an item like Doppelganger Bile (CC)).

The problem with using polymorph any object on your familiar followed by mineralize warrior is that if the familiar ever returns to it's normal form, it would lose the mineral warrior template, because the template was applied to the polymorphed form, and is an instantaneous effect. It would be like casting a hypothetical spell that removes a creature's limb instantaneously while the familiar is polymorphed. As soon as it returns to it's normal form, it would have all it's limbs.

PeyEll
2018-02-06, 11:05 PM
Indeed. The idea of casting polymorph on the familiar was considered but discarded in a previous thread. I would link the thread but apparently I need to have posted 10 times first. :smallfrown: You can look up "polymorph and EXISTING templates".

Thank you for the suggestion about casting polymorph on myself though. I hadn't thought about that, but then I worry I WOULD have to pay XP for our combined HD.

The question still remains, can I cast mineralize warrior on myself through still spell metamagic? I'm not sure why I would need a ridiculously high caster level to do that. It's only a spell level increase of one I thought.

I suppose it was too much to hope that a changing the ultimate recipient through share spells would be enough to warrant allowing me to cast it on myself initially without still spell. Maybe I can run it by the DM but I don't see it happening by RAW.