Dungeon Crawl Style Game, Class help! PHB ONLY!

[Bluuegg]

Hello! I am about to take part in a game that will be a series of 15 dungeons, starting at character level one and ending at character level 6. These dungeons will be full of traps, puzzles, and combat! I am looking for help optimizing one of a few ideas I had for the character I would like to play.

We are only using the 3.5 PHB and I am trying to narrow down a way to make a useful character.
The other party members have a good range of the required roles already covered;
Arcane Caster for damage and buffs
Cleric for heals and front line
Rogue for traps

We will have two more players, myself and one other. I was leaning towards the following three options;
Grappler (barb/monk?)
Corridor/Close Ranger Archer
Small sized mounted ranger (riding animal companion)

If any of these can become useful in the setting we will be playing in, I would greatly appreciate any insight the community has! I have never been keen on making a character particularly useful since I tend to focus way more on back story and flavor, but not this time!
Suggestions besides the above are also welcome!

Thank you all

[Telonius]

There are a couple of important questions you should probably clear with the DM before you make a pick. First, are these dungeons going to be all in a row (a la World's Largest), or will you have time to rest in between? Will there be opportunities to loot arrows, or are you stuck with what you have when you enter the dungeon? If ammunition is going to be an issue, that would be a big argument against ranged combat.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd advise against PHB-only archery. There's simply no support to do relevant damage. I can't see it being anything but a frustrating experience.
Grappling has similar issues. You need support to stay relevant against monsters (who often get racial Str boni and size boni over you) that simply aren't found in the PHB.

A mounted ranger could work though. Mounted combat has a decent selection of feats and gear, so you'll probably do okay as long as you pick those.

[ViperMagnum357]

What about ability scores? If you can get three good ones (16+), then you can go Chain Tripper Barb with a few levels of Fighter. Two-hander with area denial for the front line, and Enlarge Person will give you a 20ft/strike-adjacent reach, plus Combat Reflexes/AOO is very solid in Core. You really need good Str/Dex/Con, 15/16 or better, plus 13 in Int; but you can dump Wis/Cha in point buy or assigned. Dwarf or Human is good for that-either a feat or can make due with less points in Con, and speed is probably not a huge factor with less charging reliance.

Stay away from grappling-it is generally bad without Snatch/Improved Grab, and that is with Dragon and Dungeon Mags in play with all 1st party material; Core only is atrocious, and PHB only does not bear mentioning.

[zergling.exe]

What about ability scores? If you can get three good ones (16+), then you can go Chain Tripper Barb with a few levels of Fighter. Two-hander with Leap Attack and area denial for the front line, and Enlarge Person will give you a 20ft/strike-adjacent reach, plus Combat Reflexes/AOO is very solid in Core. You really need good Str/Dex/Con, 15/16 or better, plus 13 in Int; but you can dump Wis/Cha in point buy or assigned. Dwarf or Human is good for that-either a feat or can make due with less points in Con, and speed is probably not a huge factor with less charging reliance.

Stay away from grappling-it is generally bad without Snatch/Improved Grab, and that is with Dragon and Dungeon Mags in play with all 1st party material; Core only is atrocious, and PHB only does not bear mentioning.

Leap Attack is in Complete Adventurer, so a no-go there, and front line is already covered by the cleric.

[ViperMagnum357]

Leap Attack is in Complete Adventurer, so a no-go there, and front line is already covered by the cleric.

Bah, removed. So easy to forget what goes where. The rest is solid though-martials have few options in core without mounted or sneak attack, and they already have a Rogue-and mounts in dungeons are usually a headache. Also, at low levels I think a cleric alone is maybe too little for the frontline-at levels 1-6 without cohorts, animal companions, or bound creatures, that is a lot of focus on one character without access to persist spell or higher level buffs. A second beat stick is probably in order.

[zergling.exe]

Bah, removed. So easy to forget what goes where. The rest is solid though-martials have few options in core without mounted or sneak attack, and they already have a Rogue-and mounts in dungeons are usually a headache. Also, at low levels I think a cleric alone is maybe too little for the frontline-at levels 1-6 without cohorts, animal companions, or bound creatures, that is a lot of focus on one character without access to persist spell or higher level buffs. A second beat stick is probably in order.

If it's actually useful to martial classes, it's probably not in core. Easy metric to remember. :smalltongue:

[Doctor Awkward]

Druid.

Supplemental healing for when the cleric runs dry.
Turn into a rat to slip through cracks in the walls.
If you think there is a trap, Summon Monster I (Celestial Monkey) to spring it.

[vasilidor]

in a 3.5 core only game? either two handed great sword (do not bother with cleave) or a druid for a melee build. druid will perform better over time than the two handed great sword wielder.

[Bluuegg]

First : Thank you everyone for all the replies! Its all greatly appreciated

We will have time to recover between dungeons and ammo is a non issue. We will reach sort of "check points" between dungeons to resupply and spend our gains.

Stats will be rolled, but the best player rolled stats will be used as a curve to bring the rest up to within 2 total modifiers (IE - 18/16/14/13/13/8 = +10 total | so everyone with raise stats by +1 until they are at at least +8)

I never considered a melee Druid, that might be interesting to play! With the advice given so far I think either the druid or the Mounted Ranger might be what I go for!

If anyone else has any input, please feel free to add in! thank you all again

[Bucky]

At level 1, the druid herself doesn't need to melee constantly. The animal companion isn't quite a Fighter, but it can plug a hall just fine and the wolf can even lock down bipeds that try to move past it.

Protip: slings are cheap. Carry a few.

[DMVerdandi]

who are all these DM's making these types of games [what the heck].

Alright, Imma level with you. This sounds DIFFICULT. LEVEL 5 is about the level where you have enough resources to really survive enough encounters per day, and really, the survivability of many PHB classes is rather low. I hope by dungeons, you really mean dens, because it doesn't sound like there is going to be enough cure for everybody.

Someone suggested a druid, and I agree completely. Get Dragonscale plate armor as soon as possible. If you are confined to PHB feats, then I am sorry. Make druid an elf so that you can get longbow proficiency. stay away from enemies. Pelt them with arrows, and have your animal companion act as the primary damage dealer. Start with wolf, move up to leopard at level 4. Now your animal companion can pounce.

Also, being a druid allows you some pretty decent low level healing, and the variety to tackle various challenges by swapping out your spells.

[Bluuegg]

Hello again! Sorry for the thread revival, but I am looking for some more advice on this campaign.

We have seen 5 dungeons so far, and many deaths! I am trying to come back from my most recent run in with Death and make my 3rd character.

The party is level 4 now, using a 76 point buy. We are able to have one 18 and only allowed to take one stat to 8. The rest have to be 10 or higher
18
1x
1x
1x
1x
8

Healing is no longer covered and I am intrigued how one would put together the "Melee Druid" menionted above or even another useful character at level 4!

Any and all help is appreciated!!! Thank you

[Nifft]

Druids are great, very survivable and they don't depend on equipment as much as other classes do.

There's a nicely written, fairly comprehensive Druid guide here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook


Are you still stuck in Core-only?

There are basically two good low-level Core animal companion types:
- Dog-types which have one attack, you can sometimes ride them, and they get free Trip on their Bite attack.
- Cat-types which have three attacks, you can't ride the smaller ones, and they get free Pounce when Charging.

Dog-Trippers are good for a small Druid who takes Mounted Combat -- in Core that's a Halfling or Gnome, both are good but Gnome is probably better. They're best if you expect longer fights against humanoids who are vulnerable to Trip, and if you have many party members who can benefit from the Trip condition that your animal inflicts. With the Mounted Combat feat, you can deflect some attacks on your beast, so it's better for longer, drawn-out battles against tougher foes.

Cat-Pouncers are good for any Druid, but they're not as team-play friendly. They're best if you're facing lots of weak, dispersed enemies -- like a back-row goblin wizard or skeleton archer -- since the Charge + Pounce thing works best when you can take down an enemy with one Charge. But using the Charge attack optimally means the beast won't be near you as often, so it's a bit riskier for the beast.

If you expect to face mostly large, tough, non-humanoids (hard to trip, not one-Pounce kills) then pick based on whatever best fits your character's style.


For stats, you want 18 Wisdom, 14+ Con, and enough Int to get all the skills you want (Concentration, Spellcraft, Survival, maybe Ride, plus you might want Kn:Nature, and Diplomacy could be useful if you've got a decent Charisma, and Spot + Listen are both amazing... and training your companion means Handle Animal... yeah it's good to be a Human with a decent Int).

What do you get in terms of gear? Druids can work quite well without any gear, but having the right gear is always better.

[MeimuHakurei]

I wanna chip in to give suggestion to frontline with a War+Strength Cleric focusing on martial feats and buff spells - lack of Divine Metamagic hurts your support ability, but that only means you need to give more thought when to use your Divine Power+Righteous Might self-buffs. Clerics are indeed versatile enough that two of them in a group can serve different roles, so if your group's Cleric already does a lot of meleeing, consider picking domains and feats more suitable for the supporting roles.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Please, please tell me that "PHB only" doesn't mean you're stuck with the magical gear you find?

If you are, for the love of Boccob pick a full caster or at least a bard. If you can buy and sell gear properly, maybe give a barb a shot. Even just from the PHB it hits pretty solid with a 2-hander and the HD and DR make him pretty tough.

[skunk3]

Bardadin. Paladin 1 / Bard 5.

[Bluuegg]

Bardadin. Paladin 1 / Bard 5.
Barbarians cant be Lawful :-(

We recently lost both of our offensive casters, so a Bard might be something I could look into!

A Cleric in full plate is looking so much better after all the death that has happened ×_×

Thank you everyone for the input!

[zlefin]

Hello again! Sorry for the thread revival, but I am looking for some more advice on this campaign.

We have seen 5 dungeons so far, and many deaths! I am trying to come back from my most recent run in with Death and make my 3rd character.

The party is level 4 now, using a 76 point buy. We are able to have one 18 and only allowed to take one stat to 8. The rest have to be 10 or higher
18
1x
1x
1x
1x
8

Healing is no longer covered and I am intrigued how one would put together the "Melee Druid" menionted above or even another useful character at level 4!

Any and all help is appreciated!!! Thank you

what have the deaths been due to? Knowing both what your, and other chars died to would help some with recommending a build.

and how does the wealth available for a new char work? (i.e. when there's lots of player deaths many GMs try to avoid the problem of looting every dead players gear so the PCs end up accumulating far more wealth than intended fro their level).

what's the current party composition?

[skunk3]

Barbarians cant be Lawful :-(

We recently lost both of our offensive casters, so a Bard might be something I could look into!

A Cleric in full plate is looking so much better after all the death that has happened ×_×

Thank you everyone for the input!

I didn't say Barbarian. I said Bardadin! :)

Paladin 1 / Bard 5. Alternatively, I think that taking up to 4 levels of Paladin would be a decent dip for a Bardadin. Paladin 4 / Bard 16 would be a nice and capable character.

[Nifft]

I didn't say Barbarian. I said Bardadin! :)

Paladin 1 / Bard 5.

Bards also can't be Lawful, so ... ?

[skunk3]

Bards also can't be Lawful, so ... ?
I guess the guy in my party playing that character is doing it illegally. Well, scratch that idea. We often don't require prerequisite fluff like that. I don't see why a bard would have to be non-lawful anyway.

Well, if your DM won't allow you to do a Paladin/Bard then just go with straight Cleric.