The Third Pillar-- What Games Are Best At Exploration?

[Grod_The_Giant]

D&D designers have tossed around the idea of "three pillars" of gameplay: combat, socializing, and exploration. Pretty much every mainstream system devotes plenty of attention to the first pillar (combat). I've seen games that support the second pillar (socializing) quite well too-- and of the three aspects, it's certainly the easiest to fake*. It's the third pillar that seems to be the most elusive. I've thought about running scenarios with the players, say, lost in a jungle, or battling a winter storm, and I have run them, in a variety of systems... but there's always been something a bit, I dunno, off about the whole experience. Mostly I've seen it come down to skill challenge type stuff, which is never really as satisfying as it ought to be, somehow. And there are certainly rules around for overland travel type things, but those tend to be more of a long-term spreadsheet type challenge, rather than an engaging scene being played out. I've tried to write such rules in my own STaRS, and they seem to work out okay, but... there must be better things out there.

So my question is this: what systems have the best mechanics for exploration? What games are the best at modeling how characters interact, not just with each other, but with the world as a whole?




*Arguments about freeform roleplaying vs rules for social stuff aside.

[JellyPooga]

My obligatory shout out to The One Ring was inevetable; it's got a whole subsystem for overland travel that I, at least, find nail-biting. If you fluff the travel (which includes both player choice and skill challenges/luck to determine the success of), then you can be really stuffed when you get to where you're going. That said, it is little more than a series of skill challenges when you get down to the nitty gritty and it is abstracted rather than played out (e.g. your route is pre-planned and there's no "ooo, let's divert off and explore this random and interesting thing we've come across), per se, though you could theoretically do that at any given point along the way).

Many rules light/abstract games like FATE and Wushu treat exploration the same way as anything else, theoretically making them ideal for games with a heavy focus in that area. It just takes a creative and compelling GM to make the exploration exciting. Again, though, you're essentially looking at a series of skill challenges to resolve it.

I don't think I've heard of a game that specifically calls out a different sub-system for the exploration pillar in the way you're looking for, though there's no reason it couldn't be done. Resolving it similarly to combat, with obstacles and encounters being treated like monsters are in combat; a challenge to overcome with fixed stats and different methods to deal with them. Add a longer time-span for it (minutes where combat has seconds, hours in place of rounds, perhaps) and you've got the foundations of a sub-system that might work.

Hmmm....worth a little cogitation. I'll get back to you on this one...

[Grod_The_Giant]

That's roughly how I wound up handling it in STaRS-- you use the basic conflict rules, just changing up what sorts of skills you use to "attack" and "defend," but I'm looking for ideas to mine for expanded rules and such.

[Knaight]

Torchbearer is pretty decent - it's very logistical in its exploration, where there's a lot of resources that are very useful for exploration and a lot of ways for exploration going poorly to compromise these resources.

[NichG]

Abstracting a bit, exploration ultimately depends on having meaningful transitions from things being unknown to things being known. If there aren't questions whose answers matter, exploration will tend to feel like generic survival gameplay.

Questions can matter in a lot of ways. One is a plain sense of wonder - if you can experience something mind-blowing, that can drive the urge to go over that next hill. Another is if the questions drive matters of plot concern - is there an invading army on the march, is there a hidden cult, etc? Both depend explicitly on the DM in that case.

Another way questions can matter is if, explicitly and mechanically, knowledge is power. For example, I was in a campaign with a combinatoric magic item system. Learning about the potential combinations directly resulted in increases in the party's mechanical capabilities. Another example is in old school dungeon crawls, finding secret passages and shortcuts could directly reduce the risk and resource expenditure of backtracking, meaning that it had a direct consequence on the party's ability to rest, remove heavy treasure, etc.

So that's what I'd look for - ways to make fine-grained knowledge mechanically significant somehow, and then build the game under the assumption of acquiring knowledge as a primary mode of gaining power or agency.

[RFLS]

...like FATE and...

...compelling GM...

I see what you did there.

[Florian]

So my question is this: what systems have the best mechanics for exploration? What games are the best at modeling how characters interact, not just with each other, but with the world as a whole?

It´s interesting that you associate "exploration" with "world exploration". D&D is pretty well equipped to handle "dungeon exploration" of any kind and in various details.

Pathfinder received some sub-systems that, when combined, make for good "world exploration" game (Caravans - Jade Regent, Exploration and Survival - Ultimate Wilderness, Resreach - Ultimate Intrigue).

The One Ring has already been named, Splittermond uses a very similar system to handle it. Beyond that? Maybe Traveler, especially 2300AD.

[Fri]

Not sure if it's any good for your purpose, but you might check Ryuutama if you haven't, it's an RPG specifically designed around exploration. Might be good for inspiration at least.

http://kotohi.com/ryuutama/

It looks cute, but can be quite brutal. Someone described it as "Oregon Trail: The RPG"

Another thing is a game that's currently still under development but I'm really waiting for the finished product, forgot the title, but IIRC it's by the dev of "Costume Fairy Adventure." I don't really remember the exact detail, since it's on development, but it's basically about dungeon delving, the game has socializing part where you collect resource for your adventure, and then the adventure part, where you use your resources. Basically you use "obstacle checks" or what you call it and resources you collect from the "town" part to get past obstacles in your adventure part, and the thing is, monster can be considered obstacles as well, you can basically get past them using the same way and resources you'd solve say, broken bridge or climbing cliffs. BUT you can also fight monsters in a detailed rpg combat. And I guess the GM can "force" the players to deal with "boss encounters" as combat, you can't exactly solve a goblin chief the same way you pass a goblin patrol.

When you get defeated, you get thrown out of the "exploration" part and back to town for chance to get more resources.

Resources here includes spiritual and moral resources, and I think you can basically die or decide to retire and be a barkeep, I guess, if you're defeated in exploration and you're out of... say, the willpower to continue.

Once again, it's just what I half remember from the top of my head on this specific system.

[Pelle]

For exploration to be interesting, there need to be interesting things to explore. Does the rule system matter that much? I would think it is more important to have an environment that is fleshed out with enough content, so that informed decisions can be made on where to explore further.

As for rule system, I guess it depends on what the challenge is supposed to be. Just to survive, to discover hidden stuff, etc

[Grod_The_Giant]

"Exploration" might not be quite the right word for what I'm looking for. I'm thinking about... hmm... I was rereading some Mercedes Lackery books recently, and one of her favorite scenarios seems to be "surviving a terrible snowstorm." I tried fitting something like that into a 5e campaign I'm running with fairly limited success, and I'm wondering if there are systems that can handle things like that a little better than "roll X successes before Y failures."

[Fri]

"Exploration" might not be quite the right word for what I'm looking for. I'm thinking about... hmm... I was rereading some Mercedes Lackery books recently, and one of her favorite scenarios seems to be "surviving a terrible snowstorm." I tried fitting something like that into a 5e campaign I'm running with fairly limited success, and I'm wondering if there are systems that can handle things like that a little better than "roll X successes before Y failures."

Yeah, that's what Ryuutama is basically about.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yeah, that's what Ryuutama is basically about.
I shall have to check it out, then. Thanks!

[Knaight]

"Exploration" might not be quite the right word for what I'm looking for. I'm thinking about... hmm... I was rereading some Mercedes Lackery books recently, and one of her favorite scenarios seems to be "surviving a terrible snowstorm." I tried fitting something like that into a 5e campaign I'm running with fairly limited success, and I'm wondering if there are systems that can handle things like that a little better than "roll X successes before Y failures."

I wouldn't have recommended Ryuutama before, as it's really not about exploration, but about journeying. Dealing with the obstacles on a journey though? That is Ryuutama's bread and butter.

FATE also works surprisingly well here, and the fashion in which it does can be transported nicely back to Fudge, if you favor non-narrative systems (which is the impression I've gotten; besides I like Fudge better and preferentially recommend it anyways).

[Quertus]

Well, I'm disappointed. "Exploration" is my favorite of Angry's 8 aesthetics, but this thread has almost nothing to do with that. :smallfrown:


Abstracting a bit, exploration ultimately depends on having meaningful transitions from things being unknown to things being known. If there aren't questions whose answers matter, exploration will tend to feel like generic survival gameplay.

Questions can matter in a lot of ways. One is a plain sense of wonder - if you can experience something mind-blowing, that can drive the urge to go over that next hill. Another is if the questions drive matters of plot concern - is there an invading army on the march, is there a hidden cult, etc? Both depend explicitly on the DM in that case.

Another way questions can matter is if, explicitly and mechanically, knowledge is power. For example, I was in a campaign with a combinatoric magic item system. Learning about the potential combinations directly resulted in increases in the party's mechanical capabilities. Another example is in old school dungeon crawls, finding secret passages and shortcuts could directly reduce the risk and resource expenditure of backtracking, meaning that it had a direct consequence on the party's ability to rest, remove heavy treasure, etc.

So that's what I'd look for - ways to make fine-grained knowledge mechanically significant somehow, and then build the game under the assumption of acquiring knowledge as a primary mode of gaining power or agency.


For exploration to be interesting, there need to be interesting things to explore. Does the rule system matter that much? I would think it is more important to have an environment that is fleshed out with enough content, so that informed decisions can be made on where to explore further.

This is what I enjoy, more than "at what angle do we stack how many sticks? Does anyone have the knowledge and skill to start a fire?"

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is what I enjoy, more than "at what angle do we stack how many sticks? Does anyone have the knowledge and skill to start a fire?"
Oh, absolutely... the main thing I want (which, apparently, Ryuutama touches upon) is a way to make non-combat, non-social challenges interesting and dangerous. Preferably in a way that promotes an emergent narrative, rather than a purely linear "roll to find a campsite, roll to put up a tent, roll to start a fire..." (The main trouble I've had with skill challenge type mechanics is in marrying concrete descriptions of what you just accomplished with the abstract "five successes before three failures" structure)

[Pelle]

I'm not sure if 'skill challenges' can be very interesting, at least just making a series of skill checks without any real decisions is not.

However, if for example cought in a blizzard, the players can make the informed decisions which affects their chance of survival, it starts to get interesting. They can dig a snow cave where they are, dig a better snow cave in a snowdrift but risk an avalanche, keep walking and hope they can make it to a road or cabin, they know of a cave but not sure if it is inhabited etc. Their intel and character skills will inform what is a good decision, and the players can try to stack the odds in their favor, making it interesting. And whatever choice they make, also affects what the possible consequences are.

I have found in my own experience, that establishing interesting scenarios for (wilderness) exploration is the hard part. If I can't make something with interesting decisions points, and it just becomes a series of random rolls, I would rather just handwave it than spend time on playing it through.

[Florian]

Oh, absolutely... the main thing I want (which, apparently, Ryuutama touches upon) is a way to make non-combat, non-social challenges interesting and dangerous. Preferably in a way that promotes an emergent narrative, rather than a purely linear "roll to find a campsite, roll to put up a tent, roll to start a fire..." (The main trouble I've had with skill challenge type mechanics is in marrying concrete descriptions of what you just accomplished with the abstract "five successes before three failures" structure)

It´s generally problematic how to handle that kind of narrative and danger in TTRPG. If you can, take a look at the revamped CoC "At the Mountain of Madness" as done by Pegasus. Admirable on how it handles exploration and survival in-depth, but hard to imagine in a game world that has "Endure Elements" as a stable.

[Stan]

I remember both Mouseguard and the newest LOTR game cover travelling and environmental issues. But I can no longer remember how they do it. In Mouseguard, the environment can be a major danger - but most things are handled in an abstract side game, so it might not appeal to everyone.

If I still remember this thread on the weekend, I'll look them up.

I think AD&D had some pluses, in this regard, in emphasizing mapping and the possibility of getting lost and not being in the hex you thought you were. It's not the only way to approach it but a blank map creates more uncertainty. Players have to make decisions on imperfect information, not knowing when they will be able to resupply or whether they are close to a major threat.

One problem that I've run into is that exploration and travelling often come down to logistics, what to pack, how much to pack, etc. Some players love the spreadsheet aspects but most don't. It'd be nice to have a cinematic or abstract to handle supplies. Like, if roll well, you remembered to pack the shark repellent. On a crit fail, you've gone through all of your arrows.