Spore Druid?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Has anyone played with the new(ish) Spore Druid subclass? The whole "melee Druid without Wild Shape" bit really appeals to me (and is a good excuse to finally play a Lizardfolk), but are there any unexpected pitalls (beyond the "all your bonus damage is poison" bit) or strengths (Polearm Master)?

[Mith]

I've not played it, but it occurs to me that the Elemental Adept could work well with this subclass to boost up the power of your poison attacks.

[Scyrner]

I've not played it, but it occurs to me that the Elemental Adept could work well with this subclass to boost up the power of your poison attacks.

Save for the unfortunate fact that, according to the feat:

"When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder.

Spells you cast ignore resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.

You can select this feat multiple times. Each time you do so, you must choose a different damage type."

you cannot select poison damage, and it only works on spells.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Works best with more attacks so.... Monk multiclass.

Any excuse is a good excuse to go gator. Pick up a few monk levels and it’s great without many levels invested since you start with 1d6 unarmed strike as gator.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Save for the unfortunate fact that, according to the feat:
Not RAW, but worth asking about all the same, one supposes. Still, I figure Druids have enough spells (and zombies, now!) to pull them through when poison gets shut down.

EDIT:

Works best with more attacks so.... Monk multiclass.

Any excuse is a good excuse to go gator. Pick up a few monk levels and it’s great without many levels invested since you start with 1d6 unarmed strike as gator.
Ehh... I dunno. Polearm Master and a level of Monk both give you a 1d4 bonus action attack, but on a primary caster in particular an ASI seems like a much lower cost than a level or two. Lizardfolk* doesn't quite tip the scale, even with the higher unarmed damage-- you're gaining a cantrip (and a start-of-combat bonus action) back, but losing out on being Wis-SAD and using a shield.

On the other hand, dipping Spore Druid 2 on a Monk is seems like a slam dunk, especially after level 5-6. It sure beats Ranger 2 or Warlock in terms of damage boosting, plus all the Druid utility goodness.



*The most frustrating thing about Lizardfolk, from my optimization standpoint, is that it's really hard to make a build featuring both their bite (which defaults to Str) and their natural armor (which encourages Dex). It's pretty much limited to "dipped Monk but less than 16 Wisdom," which is honestly a pretty narrow spectrum.

[Scyrner]

Not RAW, but worth asking about all the same, one supposes. Still, I figure Druids have enough spells (and zombies, now!) to pull them through when poison gets shut down.

Oh, is my information out-dated?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh, is my information out-dated?
Spore Druid gets Animate Dead, and can potentially pick up temporary zombie minions with their 6th level feature. (Especially if you're evil. If you get a bunch of commoners in one place, you can make ten zombies a minute with no upper bound.)

[Scyrner]

Spore Druid gets Animate Dead, and can potentially pick up temporary zombie minions with their 6th level feature. (Especially if you're evil. If you get a bunch of commoners in one place, you can make ten zombies a minute with no upper bound.)


Sorry, I meant regarding Elemental Adept, but realized afterwards that you meant that you couldn't get poison with Rules as Written but it would be worth asking your DM about. I had read it as "what you have written is not RAW". I'm tired, forgive me.

I like the zombie tricks. Zombies are cool.

[Vogie]

Has anyone played with the new(ish) Spore Druid subclass? The whole "melee Druid without Wild Shape" bit really appeals to me (and is a good excuse to finally play a Lizardfolk), but are there any unexpected pitalls (beyond the "all your bonus damage is poison" bit) or strengths (Polearm Master)?

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can still Wild Shape. The verbiage

When you use your Wild Shape feature, you can awaken those spores, rather than transforming Makes it sound like you have the choice to either wild shape OR become the Symbiotic Entity.

[Mith]

About Element Adept, I see that I was remembering wrong. I had thought it was written to specifically boost Draconic Sorcerers, including Black Dragons. I don't think it would break to just make it extend to all elemental attacks. It would even work with Dragonborn breath weapons that way, which I do not think breaks anything.

[strangebloke]

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can still Wild Shape. The verbiage
Makes it sound like you have the choice to either wild shape OR become the Symbiotic Entity.

If you don't like wildshape, though, why would you?

Lizardfolk spore druid is so appropriate... Makes me think of the komodo dragon and how they slobber bacteria onto their food so that it decomposes quickly and is nice and soft when they eat it.

[GooeyChewie]

If you don't like wildshape, though, why would you?


Because you are in a pinch and your enemies are immune (or at least resistant) to your poison damage. Wild Shape wouldn’t be your go-to tactic, but it does provide some versatility.

[Vogie]

Because you are in a pinch and your enemies are immune (or at least resistant) to your poison damage. Wild Shape wouldn’t be your go-to tactic, but it does provide some versatility.

Yeah - there's many reasons why you'd still want to have Wild shape in your back pocket.

Honestly, I wish they'd add more such abilities to the Circles (other than Moon) as well.

[clash]

Yeah - there's many reasons why you'd still want to have Wild shape in your back pocket.

Honestly, I wish they'd add more such abilities to the Circles (other than Moon) as well.

After seeing spore druid immediately had thought of this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?549204-Circle-of-Demons-Because-druids-can-be-dark-too

[Mith]

Yeah - there's many reasons why you'd still want to have Wild shape in your back pocket.

Honestly, I wish they'd add more such abilities to the Circles (other than Moon) as well.

For Land Druids, perhaps a radius attack bolsters allies with a theme attached to the Land, and do equivalent to enemies in the area. So Desert grants resistance to cold damage (heat of desert) and blinds enemies (Dust storm) and marks all invisible creatures.

Circle of Dreams/Shepherd: No ideas at the moment.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Because you are in a pinch and your enemies are immune (or at least resistant) to your poison damage. Wild Shape wouldn’t be your go-to tactic, but it does provide some versatility.
I can't imagine it would be much good for combat without Circle of the Moon's boost-- my gut feeling is that 3*lv temporary hit points is worth more at, oh, lv 10 than turning into a CR 1 bear and tanking your to-hit, AC, and casting. Still a great scouting/utility ability to have in your back pocket, tho!

[Mortis_Elrod]

Not RAW, but worth asking about all the same, one supposes. Still, I figure Druids have enough spells (and zombies, now!) to pull them through when poison gets shut down.

EDIT:

Ehh... I dunno. Polearm Master and a level of Monk both give you a 1d4 bonus action attack, but on a primary caster in particular an ASI seems like a much lower cost than a level or two. Lizardfolk* doesn't quite tip the scale, even with the higher unarmed damage-- you're gaining a cantrip (and a start-of-combat bonus action) back, but losing out on being Wis-SAD and using a shield.

On the other hand, dipping Spore Druid 2 on a Monk is seems like a slam dunk, especially after level 5-6. It sure beats Ranger 2 or Warlock in terms of damage boosting, plus all the Druid utility goodness.



*The most frustrating thing about Lizardfolk, from my optimization standpoint, is that it's really hard to make a build featuring both their bite (which defaults to Str) and their natural armor (which encourages Dex). It's pretty much limited to "dipped Monk but less than 16 Wisdom," which is honestly a pretty narrow spectrum.


Ok well a few things to still notice here.

1. 14/6 is still pretty good mix for Druid/monk
2. Lizard folk has +2con +1 wis, so easy 16 in wisdom
3. 1 monk level and you get to use Dex over str for bite which is great for ac
4. Shields are over rated just use some ki points to run away
5. Polearm Master doesn’t give as many attacks as 5 levels of monk or stunning strike. Flurry of bites is key here.


Though you aren’t wrong Gatorpeople are hard to optimize but mostly because it’s unfortunate you do t get a +3 starting weapon stat. Tho... shillelagh ... Pam... maybe something there?

[strangebloke]

*The most frustrating thing about Lizardfolk, from my optimization standpoint, is that it's really hard to make a build featuring both their bite (which defaults to Str) and their natural armor (which encourages Dex). It's pretty much limited to "dipped Monk but less than 16 Wisdom," which is honestly a pretty narrow spectrum.

On the contrary, that spread is perfect for a barbarian who wants to dump CON.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ok well a few things to still notice here.
It's a good split for a primary-melee type; less so if you want full or near-full casting (which I do-- that's what's exciting about the Spore Druid, that you can be a competent melee fighter WITHOUT a bunch of Monk levels).


On the contrary, that spread is perfect for a barbarian who wants to dump CON.
But why would you do that?

Pretty sure the optimal Lizardfolk build would be something like Monk/Ranger.

[Mortis_Elrod]

It's a good split for a primary-melee type; less so if you want full or near-full casting (which I do-- that's what's exciting about the Spore Druid, that you can be a competent melee fighter WITHOUT a bunch of Monk levels).


But why would you do that?

Pretty sure the optimal Lizardfolk build would be something like Monk/Ranger.

i still think 17/3 is or 18/2 or 16/4 is good. Monk offers something for the druid at every level and lizard folk bridges these two classes well. If you're looking for more.....poison damage synergy or even some slight undead focus Dragon Sorcerer Green i think would be alright or maybe some necromancer levels.

i agree Optiomal Lizardfolk build IMO is Monk/Ranger and maybe if you really want BA hide a rogue dip.

[Grod_The_Giant]

i still think 17/3 is or 18/2 or 16/4 is good. Monk offers something for the druid at every level and lizard folk bridges these two classes well. If you're looking for more.....poison damage synergy or even some slight undead focus Dragon Sorcerer Green i think would be alright or maybe some necromancer levels.

i agree Optiomal Lizardfolk build IMO is Monk/Ranger and maybe if you really want BA hide a rogue dip.
Hmm. Something like Spore Druid 6/Monk 2-3/Druid 11-12 might be sweet. Or Lizardfolk Shadow Monk/Gloomstalker Ranger. (The ultimate chameleon?)

[strangebloke]

But why would you do that?

Pretty sure the optimal Lizardfolk build would be something like Monk/Ranger.

I was being facetious.

There aren't a lot of classes that need both STR, DEX, and a mage armor-esqu abilty. None, in fact. You're using one or the other and that's that.