Is Hex actually good?

[Elric VIII]

I've been playing a Warlock for a while now and I just never find myself wanting to cast Hex. There are so many better concentration spells out there. I keep seeing people say that Hex is the "main spell" a Warlock wants to be casting, but I really don't see it. Can anyone convince me different?

[Lord Vukodlak]

I've been playing a Warlock for a while now and I just never find myself wanting to cast Hex. There are so many better concentration spells out there. I keep seeing people say that Hex is the "main spell" a Warlock wants to be casting, but I really don't see it. Can anyone convince me different?

"Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack."
Eldritch Blast is multiple rays rather then a singular attack so Hex can apply multiple times.

[Eloel]

I've been playing a Warlock for a while now and I just never find myself wanting to cast Hex. There are so many better concentration spells out there. I keep seeing people say that Hex is the "main spell" a Warlock wants to be casting, but I really don't see it. Can anyone convince me different?

It's an extra 1d6 damage on every Eldritch Blast for an hour (you can put it on new enemies when your current target dies), and it's a bonus-action cast.

[RSP]

It really depends on the build. A "blaster" Warlock who relies upon EB (and its multiple attacks/hits, as pointed out above), for the majority of their actions, gets good mileage out of Hex (esp when upcast and lasting through short rests).

A bladelock who is regularly in melee combat and risks losing concentration every hit, tends to see it as less useful than say AoA.

It does have out of combat uses as well, which can be good in intrigue encounters.

[rbstr]

It's overrated because it provides high white room single-target dpr when everything hits and you have optimal setup.
The reality is that single target DPR isn't the end-all use of spells so there are plenty of times where something else is better.

But it still is a really good spell on an eldritch-blast warlock particularly at higher levels when they have multiple beams. The EB lock doesn't have much using up its bonus action so Hex transfers don't gum anything up.
Plus, if the warlock keeps from taking too many hits it can last most of the day when upcast which can make it pretty slot efficient.

[Scyrner]

So I'm playing a Hexblade Warlock right now, and I understand what you're getting at with regards to not wanting to cast Hex. It's not a very interesting spell in most situations. It can have some interesting aspects, such as hexing a target's Wisdom for disadvantage to Perception, their Dex for disadvantage to Initiative, or their Cha in a social encounter.

That being said, I find myself casting Hex almost all the time, and am generally pretty satisfied that I did so, by the end of the session.

Let's think about it as though spells were something you "bought".

You've got 2 "dollars" to spend, as a Warlock, for most of your career. You want, in general, to spend those dollars on one of two things: 1) Whatever is the most important thing to be doing in any given moment or 2) Whatever gets you the best value for your dollar.

Hex is almost never a good example of 1, save in some of the situations I mentioned above, where you could combine it with a handy Enhance Ability from the party Druid or Bard and just wreck a social encounter (like, for example, convincing the King that you are innocent of all crimes while the prosecutor completely bungles his argument). Hex is, however, very often the best example of 2, especially as your spell level rise.

Spending your 1 dollar on Shatter, for example, gets you one quick effect. When you need it, you probably need it. However, you're now out 1 dollar and you've only gained the benefit from spending that dollar once. If you spend a dollar on Hex, you can keep benefiting from that dollar over and over again. When you get an extra attack, you benefit even more. If you've got a bonus action attack, you benefit even more, if you're using EB+AB you benefit even more.

I don't like casting Hex, but I'm hard-pressed to justify something else in most situations as, in my experience, the best form of crowd control is death.

Edit: I disagree with the poster above me regarding its scaling, sort of. It's a bad 5th level spell, but cast at 5th level, it's a functionally free spell, so I'm happy to concentrate on it until I need to concentrate on something else.

[MaxWilson]

I've been playing a Warlock for a while now and I just never find myself wanting to cast Hex. There are so many better concentration spells out there. I keep seeing people say that Hex is the "main spell" a Warlock wants to be casting, but I really don't see it. Can anyone convince me different?

It's got a good action economy for a 1st level spell, and it has some nice secondary effects (for grappling, persuasion contests, etc.). It's a pretty bad 3rd level spell and a terrible 5th level spell, so if your DM isn't using spell points, it falls out of favor for pure warlocks. Even for bardlocks and sorlocks, I've seen it get usage primarily in trashfights as opposed to serious fights, since in a serious fight the bardlock would rather be concentrating on Wall of Force or Conjure Animals V than puny little Hex.

In short, it's not great but it's cheap, both in spell slot terms and action economy terms, if you don't have anything else to spend your concentration on. It's about as good as Expeditious Retreat. It's a very reasonable default use of a first-level spell slot.

But no, it's definitely not the "main spell" you want to be casting, unless you're a Eldritch Knight 7/Warlock 2/SCAG Swashbuckler 11. (It's annoying BTW that WotC has now published two slightly-different versions of the Swashbuckler. Three if you count UA, but UA doesn't count.)

[MaxWilson]

I don't like casting Hex, but I'm hard-pressed to justify something else in most situations as, in my experience, the best form of crowd control is death.

Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion, and Fear are all better than Hex against crowds. Killing one hobgoblin slightly faster is inferior to disabling eight of them.


Edit: I disagree with the poster above me regarding its scaling, sort of. It's a bad 5th level spell, but cast at 5th level, it's a functionally free spell, so I'm happy to concentrate on it until I need to concentrate on something else.

If you're playing without spell points, then casting Hex V is not functionally free, because the minute you need to cast something good like Fear or Fly, you lose your Hex, which means that you paid a fifth-level slot for slightly speeding up all the preceding trashy fights that didn't need you to cast anything good. Now you're out two of your best spell slots (Hex + Fear) but you didn't accomplish much more than you would have with one spell slot (Fear alone).

This dynamic doesn't happen for a sorlock or a bardlock, who would be out only one 1st level spell slot (Hex) and one good spell slot (Fear).

[History_buff]

Non-hexblade bladelocks might get some extra utility from the hex spell out of the Xanathar’s guide invocations. Specifically the Relentless Hex one. Bonus action teleporting is always nice.

[Scyrner]

Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion, and Fear are all better than Hex against crowds. Killing one hobgoblin slightly faster is inferior to disabling eight of them.

You're completely correct. I meant crowd control from the perspective of CC: stuns and restrains and such. It was mostly a joke, should have used blue text. I also use Hypnotic Pattern on crowds, but again, I'll still happily concentrate on Hex until I need Hypnotic Pattern.

[Willie the Duck]

Depending upon how harshly your DM interprets it--i.e. can you move the hex to a new target hours after the last target is dead (and if not, shouldn't switching up the hex be a reaction and not a bonus action, so that you do it whenever your opponent dies?)--after 5th level, you can cast hex, re-short rest, and have Hex up as your concentration spell until you next want to use your concentration for something else.

Hex, I feel, is the very definition of a 'good option if nothing else presents itself' kind of spell.

[DivisibleByZero]

Hex is an excellent use of your concentration, right up until you have better things to concentrate on.
It's less useful due to the fact that it eats one of your precious slots.
How much those two combine to be worth is up to you. But the fact that it can potentially last through multiple encounters, right from level 1, makes it worthwhile to me at low levels. At higher levels, I find that my concentration can almost always be better spent on something less damage and more control related.

[RSP]

Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion, and Fear are all better than Hex against crowds. Killing one hobgoblin slightly faster is inferior to disabling eight of them.



If you're playing without spell points, then casting Hex V is not functionally free, because the minute you need to cast something good like Fear or Fly, you lose your Hex, which means that you paid a fifth-level slot for slightly speeding up all the preceding trashy fights that didn't need you to cast anything good. Now you're out two of your best spell slots (Hex + Fear) but you didn't accomplish much more than you would have with one spell slot (Fear alone).

This dynamic doesn't happen for a sorlock or a bardlock, who would be out only one 1st level spell slot (Hex) and one good spell slot (Fear).

If you cast Hex at 3rd+, then short rest, you have all your slots available and have Hex. Even if you then decide to cast a different Concentration spell, you've gotten plenty of usefulness out of Hex, and still are at full power.

On a EB, Fiend Warlock, having Hex up throughout the dungeon crawl, while still being able to dish out Fireballs, is quite useful.

Likewise, always having an opponent at Disadvantage on shoves for the Shield Master Rogue or Fighter, isn't trash either. You get +d6 on each attack and they get Advantage on their attacks.

Fear is a fantastic spell and should absolutely be weighed as a Concentration competing option, though you don't always want those Hobgoblins running through the dungeon warning all the other inhabitants that you all are there.

Hex is a good spell, depending on the build.

[Willie the Duck]

One side note: I have played a number of Cleric1/Warlock X-1 characters (for armor, healing spells, and thematic 'aspiring servant of a god gets turned to a quicker route to power' character). For those characters, those two 1st level spell slots are often used to cast hex in combats where a higher power spell isn't needed.

[Vogie]

It's good for all of the Warlock Variants that use it.


Blast locks can use it to amp up their Eldritch Blast Rays
Used with Maddening Hex to deal PAoE psychic damage to the target & anything around it
Used with Relentless Hex to give melee bladelocks a blink strike ability
Ranged Blade Locks (Bow locks?) can use it as a source of Necrotic damage before they have Lifedrinker or Eldritch Smite.
Anyone in a group that requires a specific check for their abilities (for example, being paired with an AOE blaster mage with a lot of AOE spells, making all dexterity checks with disadvantage is a huge boon)

[white lancer]

Hex, I feel, is the very definition of a 'good option if nothing else presents itself' kind of spell.

This is exactly how it's played out for the Bardlock I've been running. If I need a specific foe to stop what it's doing (or it's just a little too close to me for comfort), a spell like Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Suggestion are my go-tos. But if there's nothing specific I need to use my Concentration for, or if I simply want to go for extra damage or help the Fighter Shield Bash, Hex is a good backup option. I imagine on a pure Warlock it would be outclassed quickly enough, however, given that it doesn't scale in damage as you level...for my primary Bard with a two-level dip, however, it's nice to have an always-beneficial effect to use for that first-level slot that recharges on a short rest anyway.

[Elric VIII]

Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion, and Fear are all better than Hex against crowds. Killing one hobgoblin slightly faster is inferior to disabling eight of them.



If you're playing without spell points, then casting Hex V is not functionally free, because the minute you need to cast something good like Fear or Fly, you lose your Hex, which means that you paid a fifth-level slot for slightly speeding up all the preceding trashy fights that didn't need you to cast anything good. Now you're out two of your best spell slots (Hex + Fear) but you didn't accomplish much more than you would have with one spell slot (Fear alone).

This dynamic doesn't happen for a sorlock or a bardlock, who would be out only one 1st level spell slot (Hex) and one good spell slot (Fear).


It's overrated because it provides high white room single-target dpr when everything hits and you have optimal setup.
The reality is that single target DPR isn't the end-all use of spells so there are plenty of times where something else is better.

But it still is a really good spell on an eldritch-blast warlock particularly at higher levels when they have multiple beams. The EB lock doesn't have much using up its bonus action so Hex transfers don't gum anything up.
Plus, if the warlock keeps from taking too many hits it can last most of the day when upcast which can make it pretty slot efficient.

This mirrors my general thoughts on it. It can amount to a decent chunk of damage throughout the day, but at the opportunity cost of better disabling spells. It's probably decent for a multiclass that either has low level slots from another caster or is a warlock dip.




Does the "I cast hex then short rest immediately" thing actually fly at tables? It seems a bit game-y.

[RSP]

Does the "I cast hex then short rest immediately" thing actually fly at tables? It seems a bit game-y.

Well, RAW, you'd need to cast it on a creature and reduce that creature to 0 HP if you actually want it for later.

In my experience, a non-front liner can get good mileage casting it early in an Adventuring day, and then maintaining it through a short rest or two, rather than trying something like "I cast Hex on the puppy, then EB it. We should take a short rest now."

[Mikal]

Well, RAW, you'd need to cast it on a creature and reduce that creature to 0 HP if you actually want it for later.

In my experience, a non-front liner can get good mileage casting it early in an Adventuring day, and then maintaining it through a short rest or two, rather than trying something like "I cast Hex on the puppy, then EB it. We should take a short rest now."

Easy to do that.

Find a bug. BAM!
Get a familiar. BAM!
Be a noble and have a retainer. BAM (nonlethal version)!

And that's just off the top of my head.

[polymphus]

Disadvantage on the saving throw of your choice is nuts. Bestow Curse gets that as a 3rd-level single target touch attack that allows a save, Hex gets it as a 1st-level ranged spell that doesn't allow a save, can be switched to a new target on target death and ALSO deals extra necrotic damage.

It's a team combo thing but for example, give him disadvantage on Wis saves then watch your bard go to town.

[RSP]

Easy to do that.

Find a bug. BAM!
Get a familiar. BAM!
Be a noble and have a retainer. BAM (nonlethal version)!

And that's just off the top of my head.

Sure, though there may be ramifications on some of those actions. Again, I've seen it work effectively without trying to game it that way (I've also never seen anyone try to do that at a table).

[ad_hoc]

I've been playing a Warlock for a while now and I just never find myself wanting to cast Hex. There are so many better concentration spells out there. I keep seeing people say that Hex is the "main spell" a Warlock wants to be casting, but I really don't see it. Can anyone convince me different?

It's great until level 3. Then it's fine. It's bad after 5.

3rd level spells should be game changers. Hex just isn't.

It's concentration and yet its selling point at higher levels is that it lasts a long time. Well, a combat concentration spell isn't really going to last that long.

People complain that Warlocks are weak spellcasters. I've even seen someone referring to them as 1/4 casters. But those same people are wasting their resources on Hex.

Warlocks have very powerful spells and lots of them. It is silly to waste 3rd level slots and up on 1st level spells.

[ad_hoc]

Disadvantage on the saving throw of your choice is nuts. Bestow Curse gets that as a 3rd-level single target touch attack that allows a save, Hex gets it as a 1st-level ranged spell that doesn't allow a save, can be switched to a new target on target death and ALSO deals extra necrotic damage.

It's a team combo thing but for example, give him disadvantage on Wis saves then watch your bard go to town.

It's ability checks, not saving throws.

[Mikal]

Sure, though there may be ramifications on some of those actions. Again, I've seen it work effectively without trying to game it that way (I've also never seen anyone try to do that at a table).

Oh i ageee. I was just thinking of ways to do so if you really wanted to

[Scyrner]

Oh i ageee. I was just thinking of ways to do so if you really wanted to

I just asked my DM at the beginning of the game if he minded if I did that, given that I'm the only short-rest recharge member of our party. The DM was fine with it.

We fluffed it as the character uses Hex in the morning on whatever he kills for the party's breakfast.

[lperkins2]

In my games, I tend to drop the requirement that hex (and hunter's mark et cetera) immediately target a creature. If you want to spend a spell slot and thereafter have to maintain concentration to not waste it, fine. Otherwise it falls prone to the 'bag of rats' trick, and is kinda silly.

[MaxWilson]

In my games, I tend to drop the requirement that hex (and hunter's mark et cetera) immediately target a creature. If you want to spend a spell slot and thereafter have to maintain concentration to not waste it, fine. Otherwise it falls prone to the 'bag of rats' trick, and is kinda silly.

Sounds reasonable.

[BoxANT]

Honestly, at level 1-4 Hex (and Agonizing Blast imo) are "ok, not amazing", this is because they both scale well with *multiple* Eldrtich Blasts. Hex is nice due to being able to last for longer with one spell, more bang for your spell buck.

Level 5-10 it's good, but again will be competing against level 3+ spells.

Level 11+ it addsd 3d6 damage, that's an average of 10.5 a turn, which is again nice but not amazing. Yes it will allow a Warlock to get their average DPT up to 42, which is pretty good, but there are also much MUCH more powerful concentration spells you'll have access to at this point.

Overall, Hex is a good fallback spell, and can, if nothing else, allow you to pump out some good damage at range.

Personally, I ran a Warlock from 1-13 and I noticed every level I cast Hex less and less.

[Naanomi]

I don’t use it often, but am glad to have it. Sometimes you find yourself facing foes that the best use of your concentration is to just try and tear it apart faster in a way that doesn’t allow a saving throw

[Davrix]

I keep seeing people mention spell points for warlock. is this some variant they wrote in a book for it or just something players came up with?

[Tanarii]

I've had a few different warlock players express frustration with the Hex spell. And simultaneously that they're often effectively 1 spell slot per short rest, because realistically you're going to sometimes-to-often fail a concentration check at some point within 2 battles, and need to recast. In every case, it was because they'd been assured by online builds or guides that Hex was top tier to the point it should be always be on, even at higher levels. :smallyuk:


Does the "I cast hex then short rest immediately" thing actually fly at tables? It seems a bit game-y.Certainly not if you cast it as part of a battle, and manage to keep it up, which isn't totally impossible depending on party size, tactics, and Con save value.

But yeah, anything like casting it on a chicken pulled from the coop you haul around with you, then sacrificing it ritually in a circle or pentacle you chalked on the ground, is kind of shenanigans. If thematic.

[Davrix]

I've had a few different warlock players express frustration with the Hex spell. And simultaneously that they're often effectively 1 spell slot per short rest, because realistically you're going to sometimes-to-often fail a concentration check at some point within 2 battles, and need to recast. In every case, it was because they'd been assured by online builds or guides that Hex was top tier to the point it should be always be on, even at higher levels. :smallyuk:

Certainly not if you cast it as part of a battle, and manage to keep it up, which isn't totally impossible depending on party size, tactics, and Con save value.

But yeah, anything like casting it on a chicken pulled from the coop you haul around with you, then sacrificing it ritually in a circle or pentacle you chalked on the ground, is kind of shenanigans. If thematic.


its the return of BAG OF RATS

[Tanarii]

its the return of BAG OF RATS
Exactly. :smallamused:

But rats don't really lend themselves to being bagged, so I went with cooped chickens instead.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Overall, Hex is a good fallback spell, and can, if nothing else, allow you to pump out some good damage at range.

Personally, I ran a Warlock from 1-13 and I noticed every level I cast Hex less and less.
Which, to be honest, seems about right for a 1st level spell.

[Sinon]

One of the things I think 5e got right was the rules for concentration. It balances casters without beating them down with a nerf bat.

It also means that every caster is faced with a problem every encounter: What am I going to concentrate on? And warlocks, with only two spells per rest, have an additional complication because they have very few slots and sometimes don’t know how many encounters they will get between rests.

To me, the opportunity costs and the strategic thinking they demand are part of the fun.

1 – at a minimum, Hex adds damage. (I love hurting bad guys.) (But undead are annoying.) Damage is always a reasonable choice.

2 – Hex is durable. Will Hold Person set the BBEG up for crit after crit? Yeah, but those awesome spells allow for saves on a round-by-round basis. You’re stuck with my Hex until my concentration ends or you die, making it good for conservative players.

3 – Unlike a lot of my other spells, Hex is “portable”.
I can switch it to a new target after the initial one dies.
Some have mentioned the fact that at higher levels I can carry it past a short rest. That's good.
But I think almost as important is that I can carry it from encounter to encounter in between rests.
As a DM, I mix it up. I don’t want players to know when their next rest is coming. As a player, I never take a rest as a given.
Yeah, Fear is one-encounter more powerful, but if I have three, four encounters before my next rest, Fear was great once. Hex was less one-time awesome, but still reliable damage for all three. (Assuming I maintained Concentration.)
Also, maintaining Hex between combat or rests usually has no opportunity cost.

4 – it pairs well. I wish it applied to Saves! but it is "just" Ability Checks; however, a lot of spells do ask for ability checks, one of the more common being the Restrained condition. If you have a wizard devoting his Concentration to something like Evard’s Black Tentacles, your Repelling blast versus a Hexed foe keeps them locked down, suffering, and vulnerable to everyone’s ranged attacks.

5 – it is less common, but in non-combat situations, the ability penalty is station. Hit Wisdom checks for disadvantage on Perception or Insight checks, sidelining the captain of the watch so the rogue can saunter past is just good wholesome family fun.

6 – It is every attack. I’m looking at a new game playing a Mystic; my selection of Disciplines that grant extra attack was contingent on the monk/lock taking Hex to make those extra hits more potent.

I would never argue that Hex is a default, must-have, must-use spell. But do I want it in my arsenal? Yeah. Yeah, I do. There are lots of encounters where I have better choices for my spell slots or my concentration.

But there are very few where Hex was not potentially of some use.

[Squiddish]

I'll add an extra note: Hex is a very good spell if you are not a very good warlock. Since it is entirely independent of your spellcasting ability, it gives a way to get some fair damage. Good for some niche builds, especially bladelocks. Also makes the blowgun useful, good for blowgun fans I guess.

[RSP]

6 – It is every attack. I’m looking at a new game playing a Mystic; my selection of Disciplines that grant extra attack was contingent on the monk/lock taking Hex to make those extra hits more potent.


I don't really know the Mystic well, but why would a monk/lock taking Hex make the Mystic's attacks more potent?

[Sinon]

I don't really know the Mystic well, but why would a monk/lock taking Hex make the Mystic's attacks more potent?

My attacks aren’t better, but I can grant the monk/lock extra attacks, which will then benefit from his Hex.

Fighters with Commander's Strike can do the same thing.

[Asmotherion]

Wile it competes with a lot of your At-will Invocations for your Concentration slot, it is one of the best uses of an actual spell slot due to being damage that sustains itself, as well as having it's secondary utility option for RP purposes. I consider it one of the best spells in the game due to it's versality.

It's golden on a Sorlock Build, were you (probably) won't have Concentration Invocations to compete with, and will have a lot of spell slots; If you need to cast an other Concentration spell, you can afford the temporary swich from Hex until the next Short Rest (since you still have limited Pact Magic). That, plus the ability to double scale your EB on Hexed Targets through Quicken Spell is priceless.

It is still a very good damage source for any Warlock, unless you want to play a less damage-orianted Warlock which honestly is always an option; Nobody forces you to play a Warlock that is focosed on DPT after all, and some invocations can make you the best at some roles (Mask of Many Faces for example, coupled with expertese in Deception and Persuation can make you a Master Spy). I'd still sugest you keep it in your Arsenal of Spells, since it can prove a lifesaver on multiple occasions (both on a fight, and in social situations, if you remember to target the right Ability), and also because it's very thematic on a Warlock.

[lperkins2]

I keep seeing people mention spell points for warlock. is this some variant they wrote in a book for it or just something players came up with?

There is a variant rule for spell points for normal casters (spellcasting feature), not for Warlock. Spell points for warlock is taking the spell points for other casters and adapting it.

[RSP]

My attacks aren’t better, but I can grant the monk/lock extra attacks, which will then benefit from his Hex.

Fighters with Commander's Strike can do the same thing.

Ah, gotcha. I figured there were certain mystics that got extra attack and/or ability contest abilities.

[Tanarii]

It also means that every caster is faced with a problem every encounter: What am I going to concentrate on? And warlocks, with only two spells per rest, have an additional complication because they have very few slots and sometimes don’t know how many encounters they will get between rests. Recommended guidelines allow any player to reasonably assume they'll get a short rest around every 1-3 encounters, with 2 being the typical most you'll expect (all Mediums), depending on hard they were. And a long rest every 3-9, with 6 being the typical most you'd expect (all Mediums), again depending on hard they are. (Those numbers go up a tad in Tier 2.)

If a DM is significantly stepping forcing it outside the normal bounds, or plans to let the players full control it and step significantly outside the bounds, that's something any player should have the idea of before the game begins. That affects both minimal rest, short rest, and long rest resources-based classes significantly. It's one of the most important things to have general idea of before even considering character concepts.

[Xihirli]

I've been playing a Warlock for a while now and I just never find myself wanting to cast Hex. There are so many better concentration spells out there. I keep seeing people say that Hex is the "main spell" a Warlock wants to be casting, but I really don't see it. Can anyone convince me different?

It's a better Hunter's Mark.
Of course, a Warlock's use of spells is a lot more expensive than a Ranger's.

[Sinon]

Recommended guidelines allow any player to reasonably assume they'll get a short rest around every 1-3 encounters, with 2 being the typical most you'll expect (all Mediums), depending on hard they were. And a long rest every 3-9, with 6 being the typical most you'd expect (all Mediums), again depending on hard they are. (Those numbers go up a tad in Tier 2.)
Exceptions always fall within a range. That's sort of what "an expectation" is. One to three encounters is a pretty significant range when you only have two spell slots. A fourth encounter isn't the norm, but do you, as a character, assume you're guaranteed safety after three encounters?

As a DM, my job isn't to screw over characters, but you have to keep them their toes. Will the norm be within 1-3? Yes.
Should they ever think a third encounter is the final before a rest?
Ha! not twice.

[the secret fire]

Does the "I cast hex then short rest immediately" thing actually fly at tables? It seems a bit game-y.

No kidding. What sort of self-respecting DM allows this? Gah...so many of the tactics that the Warlock class seems to encourage are just insufferably munchkinoid, not to mention boring and repetitive.

[Asmerv]

These discussions happen often and Scrolls are never brought up.

I personally like to craft scrolls of Hex and have a bunch ready for when I need more gas in extended fights after spending my spell slots.

A level 1 scroll is 25gp and a single day to craft. No problem.

[Lombra]

I love it in many ways, both the ritualistic chicken sacrifice to then have an edge during a social encounter (so you are not casting it in front of your target) and having it on during normal fights, often targeting strength.

[Zalabim]

(It's annoying BTW that WotC has now published two slightly-different versions of the Swashbuckler. Three if you count UA, but UA doesn't count.)
Bit of a sideline, but the subpaths that appear in both SCAG and XGE incorporate SCAG errata and use clearer verbiage where they differ at all. There shouldn't be any difference in play, just improved clarity.

[Willie the Duck]

Does the "I cast hex then short rest immediately" thing actually fly at tables? It seems a bit game-y.


Easy to do that.
<Examples>
And that's just off the top of my head.


Sure, though there may be ramifications on some of those actions. Again, I've seen it work effectively without trying to game it that way (I've also never seen anyone try to do that at a table).

'Immediately' is clearly possible, but probably not the most likely thing. The scenario where the PCs enter the dungeon, fight a few kobolds on level one, and get a short rest in before the real challenge starts is entirely reasonable (and hard to have the DM call it cheese on the PC's part).



I keep seeing people mention spell points for warlock. is this some variant they wrote in a book for it or just something players came up with?

Sorcerer-warlock multiclassing is a very common point of discussion (how often it is seen in the wild is unclear).

[Tanarii]

Exceptions always fall within a range. That's sort of what "an expectation" is. One to three encounters is a pretty significant range when you only have two spell slots. A fourth encounter isn't the norm, but do you, as a character, assume you're guaranteed safety after three encounters?

As a DM, my job isn't to screw over characters, but you have to keep them their toes. Will the norm be within 1-3? Yes.
Should they ever think a third encounter is the final before a rest?
Ha! not twice.the range is actually 1 Deadly to 2 Medium encounters per short rest. If you're facing three encounters, they're Easy encounters. You don't need to use spell slots at all. If it's dangerous and extended battle. It's probably a Deadly battle, and you can use two slots in one battle.

It's not that hard for warlocks to judge how to use their slots. General rule one per battle, if it's a long hard battle you can drop another, if it's an obvious cakewalk save it for utility spells between encounters.

But like I said, if your playing in a game that expects to regularly go outside the recommended guidelines for any reason, you need to know that before you start building any character. Not just warlocks.

[Elric VIII]

These discussions happen often and Scrolls are never brought up.

I personally like to craft scrolls of Hex and have a bunch ready for when I need more gas in extended fights after spending my spell slots.

A level 1 scroll is 25gp and a single day to craft. No problem.

I actually do this, although I thought you couldn't craft scrolls. I buy scrolls whenever I can. I have a few Invisibility, Misty Step, Protection from Good and Evil, and Hex lying around. I guess I was more asking about Hex being good in lieu of 3rd or 5th level spells when it scales up in duration.

[MaxWilson]

Bit of a sideline, but the subpaths that appear in both SCAG and XGE incorporate SCAG errata and use clearer verbiage where they differ at all. There shouldn't be any difference in play, just improved clarity.

Google gives me this version of SCAG errata: https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SCAG-Errata.pdf

Unlike Xanathar's Guide, SCAG Swashbucklers get sneak attack damage at range without needing advantage or an ally (as long as no other monsters are within 5' of the Swashbuckler). Xanathar's Guide restricts this to only 5' range, so it doesn't work with archery.

Is there a more recent version of SCAG errata?

[Zalabim]

Google gives me this version of SCAG errata: https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SCAG-Errata.pdf

Unlike Xanathar's Guide, SCAG Swashbucklers get sneak attack damage at range without needing advantage or an ally (as long as no other monsters are within 5' of the Swashbuckler). Xanathar's Guide restricts this to only 5' range, so it doesn't work with archery.

Is there a more recent version of SCAG errata?

It's just a question that was asked years and years ago and answered already. See https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/10/swashbuckler-with-a-whip/ for an example. Swashbucklers could never use Rakish Audacity when the target of their attack was not within 5' of them. WotC just underestimated the determination of munchkins.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I used to play a Dex-based Bladelock and I found that using Hex and Mirror Image together worked rather well in melee. Avoiding hits meant fewer Con saves, which kept Hex going a lot longer. For a single class Warlock this combo comes online at level 3, the same level as the Pact Blade, and continues to be useful for some time.

[MaxWilson]

It's just a question that was asked years and years ago and answered already. See https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/10/swashbuckler-with-a-whip/ for an example. Swashbucklers could never use Rakish Audacity when the target of their attack was not within 5' of them. WotC just underestimated the determination of munchkins.

It's very strange that they didn't include this in the SCAG errata, but then did include it in Xanathar's. Chalk one up for WotC's editors. [eyeroll]

And that still leaves us in the situation where the SCAG Swashbuckler is different than the Xanathar's Swashbuckler.

[Joe dirt]

If u cast hex on a frog mouse or similar creature then kill the poor thing u can then move the hex onto a unsuspecting target... if u say target wisdom for example u could have advantage to say pick their pocket or sneak past, or make ur lie more convincing... all without the mark knowing u cast the spell

[MaxWilson]

If u cast hex on a frog mouse or similar creature then kill the poor thing u can then move the hex onto a unsuspecting target... if u say target wisdom for example u could have advantage to say pick their pocket or sneak past, or make ur lie more convincing... all without the mark knowing u cast the spell

And furthermore, once you have hexed the unsuspecting target, you can crush out his sanity (and that of anyone within 5' of him) with psychic damage from Maddening Hex. You will kill him without ever attacking him once or casting a spell in his presence. You can just be standing there looking shocked like everyone else when his brain suddenly liquifies itself.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I’ve both DM’d for and played as a Warlock that used the “Hex, then short rest” trick. It’s not game-breaking. If Hex is what broke your game, then your game wasn’t very put together to begin with.

Up until 7th level, my Hexblade would use Hex and just use it to deal better damage. People whinge about “white room DPR”, but I went from 5th to 7th level without dropping concentration more than, say, maybe once. (I have made several saves, but I have a decent Con score and have just made the save each time.) Losing concentration hasn’t had a significant negative effect on my DPR for two levels’ worth of adventuring days. I have a Lore Bard friend that casts Haste on me, so between that and Polearm Master, I’ve gotten everything you’d expect of Hex and more.

Now that I’m 7th level and know Shadows of Moil, I’ll probably be using that a lot more, and Hex a lot less. However, since an early casting of Hex isn’t off the table, the first casting is essentially free for the day, and I can just use it on trash mobs until I feel like there’s a combat worth actually buffing for, and then switch to Shadows of Moil + Hexblade’s Curse in the first round/pre-combat round for permanent advantage + disadvantage against me. In the meantime, since I finally have Relentless Hex, I’ll just flit around the field and boop people with my halberd scythe essentially for free.

The party also has a Raven Queen Tomelock who uses Hex with Eldritch Blast and Maddening Hex. I don’t think she’s ever had her concentration broken, either, but we’ve also been doing a good job of creating space for her. As a result, both of us get a lot of mileage for an essentially free spell.

All in all, Hex doesn’t do a whole lot—just a little bit of rider damage and disadvantage on one type of check—and it doesn’t really give you anything new, just improves what you already do by a little bit. But since the opportunity cost is “essentially free”, it’s a pretty obvious spell to hold onto regardless, unless you’re really hurting to upgrade every spell you ever get.

[bkwrm79]

It's a good damage boost that pretty much always applies. If you're in a battle and creatures aren't grouped for Hunger of Hadar, you're already in a good spot and there's no point casting Dimension Door, all your enemies are immune to fire, etc.... it's not the most exciting spell, especially after you've been using it for a few levels, but it's useful in almost any battle situation and killing things faster can keep you or at least your party's melee-ers alive.

[MaxWilson]

It's a good damage boost that pretty much always applies. If you're in a battle and creatures aren't grouped for Hunger of Hadar, you're already in a good spot and there's no point casting Dimension Door, all your enemies are immune to fire, etc.... it's not the most exciting spell, especially after you've been using it for a few levels, but it's useful in almost any battle situation and killing things faster can keep you or at least your party's melee-ers alive.

One thing about Hex is that it's fairly short-ranged: 90'. It tends not to be useful in archery duels and aerial/naval combat. (Including space-naval combat.)

As an aside, Repelling Blast is awesome in aerial combat for knocking mounted riders off their flying mounts.

[Galactkaktus]

It's a great spell if you spend a level 1 spell slot for it. It's ok if you spend a level 2 spell slot for it and it's awfull if you spend anything above that for it.
So if you multiclass into another caster class that have normal spell slots like bard or sorcerer it'll still retain some value otherwise it's pretty bad after level 5.

[Rebonack]

The problem with Hex is the same problem many Warlock spells have.

They don't scale with spell level very well and scaling with spell level is what Warlock has going for them.

[Beelzebubba]

The problem with Hex is the same problem many Warlock spells have.

They don't scale with spell level very well and scaling with spell level is what Warlock has going for them.

Doesn't it scale automatically enough with Eldritch Blast? An extra 1d6 per beam is pretty boss.

[Tanarii]

The problem with Hex is the same problem many Warlock spells have.

They don't scale with spell level very well and scaling with spell level is what Warlock has going for them.
It does scale with spell level. It lasts longer. And which for a class with limited spell slots per short rest, the ability to last through multiple battles, and even a short rest, is very nice.

And it also scales with more attacks, which (for a warlock) already scale with character level.

(Not saying it is a required spell, nor other high level spells aren't often better.)

----------
As an aside, the thing I find kinda funny is when people are crunching warlock DPR, especially comparing blade lock to blast lock, they always do it with Hex assumed to be on the target. Even for Tier 3 or Tier 4 numbers. :smallyuk:

[Willie the Duck]

Yes, so it really depends on whether that extra duration is effective. If you want to use a concentration spell in the meantime, then the up-scaled duration becomes less useful.

[DivisibleByZero]

Yes, so it really depends on whether that extra duration is effective. If you want to use a concentration spell in the meantime, then the up-scaled duration becomes less useful.

That was T's entire point.
Almost all breakdowns and comparisons for Warlocks include Hex in DPR calculations, but after level 4 or 5 there are almost always better things to be concentrating on (and even before that in many people's eyes).

[Naanomi]

In some ways it is a build choice... I played a Warlock who was acting primarily as a blaster and wanted to use Hex so I avoided other concentration choices and didn’t regret using it consistently; but if I hadn’t planned it out I could see being frustrated by locking down my concentration for a full day

[Asmerv]

I actually do this, although I thought you couldn't craft scrolls. I buy scrolls whenever I can. I have a few Invisibility, Misty Step, Protection from Good and Evil, and Hex lying around. I guess I was more asking about Hex being good in lieu of 3rd or 5th level spells when it scales up in duration.

Then my answer would be no. My warlock is level 10, and at that level I would never cast Hex from a spell slot. A well-placed Synaptic Static would easily do 12+ rounds worth of Hex damage all at once, with a debilitating debuff and the advantage of having all the damage front loaded. If that's not called for, since most of my 'oh-crap' buttons are Concentration, I'd much rather hold onto a slot than throw out Hex from it.

As I said. Cheap scroll or bust. In fact, I love scrolls for shoring up Warlock's spells-known limitations as well.

[Rebonack]

It does scale with spell level. It lasts longer. And which for a class with limited spell slots per short rest, the ability to last through multiple battles, and even a short rest, is very nice.

And it also scales with more attacks, which (for a warlock) already scale with character level.

Didn't say no scaling. Said it doesn't scale well. Plenty of other Warlock spells have the no scaling issue, including signature spells like Hunger of Hadar, which baffles me to no end.

The higher you get, the more valuable that concentration slot becomes. Using it with Hex represents a pretty significant opportunity cost. Dropping a Hex means you aren't popping a Hypnotic Pattern or some other encounter-shifting spell. And just comparing damage, if you manage to catch three foes in a Fireball it's going to take twelve successful Eldritch Blast beams on a Hex'd foe to catch up.

Hex is decent if the DM allows chicken sacrifices in the morning or what have you to get the spell rolling. Then it isn't really eating a spell slot, just your concentration until something more important pops up. Alternatively, if you're rolling with the spellpoint variant and the option to cast Hex at level 1 is available, it makes for a solid option when you've burned through the lion's share of your spellpoints.

Basically, it can be situationally useful. Especially the game allows for spellpoints or scrolls or pre-casting on wildlife. If none of those options are available, I feel like the slot would be spent better on other things.

[rbstr]

As an aside, the thing I find kinda funny is when people are crunching warlock DPR, especially comparing blade lock to blast lock, they always do it with Hex assumed to be on the target. Even for Tier 3 or Tier 4 numbers. :smallyuk:

Given how the community continually stacks up the -5/+10 feats against other options without adjusting for hit rate at all and anyone should see that it's beyond us to look at more realistic DPR estimates.

[Tanarii]

Didn't say no scaling. Said it doesn't scale well.So you did. My bad.

[Galactkaktus]

EB with agonizing blast and 20 charisma does 1d10+5 damage per beam that hits or 2 d10+5 per beam that is a critical hit

So EB does
10,5 damage per non critical hit and
16 damage on a critical

EB with hex does
14 damage per non critical hit and
23 damage on a critical hit

14/10,5=1,333333...
23/16=1,4375

Which means that hex boosts EBs damage by some number that is between 3333...% and 4375% should be alot closer to 3333...% than 4375% in most cases it depends on the oponenets AC.
So the question is can you do something better with your spell slots and concentration?

[Wryte]

The trick to casting as a warlock is maximizing the mileage of your minimal spell slots. When you only get 2 spells per rest, you want to prioritize either spells that have a big immediate impact, or spells that you can milk for a long duration. In the latter case, Hex is ''crazy''. With scaling duration and the ability to transfer it from target to target, a single casting of Hex can potentially last you an entire adventuring day, even after you've regained the spell slot you cast it with on a short rest. It might not be exciting or flashy, but it's a solid, consistent bonus that you can apply in almost any situation, especially when you add in the disadvantage on skill checks. Got someone who likes to grapple in the party? Hex the toughest enemy's Strength and watch them be totally neutralized by failing all their Athletics checks to break out of a grapple.

If spell lists were tool boxes, Hex would be the warlock's duct tape. It might not be the best thing you can cast in every given situation, but you'll get something out of it in virtually any situation, when other spells have greatly diminished value outside of whatever their niche is.

[ad_hoc]

Which means that hex boosts EBs damage by some number that is between 3333...% and 4375% should be alot closer to 3333...% than 4375% in most cases it depends on the oponenets AC.
So the question is can you do something better with your spell slots and concentration?

The answer is yes.

Something to consider is that it doesn't increase the party's damage by all that much. This damage is also done over time. The longer the combat goes the more deadly it is for the party.



The trick to casting as a warlock is maximizing the mileage of your minimal spell slots. When you only get 2 spells per rest, you want to prioritize either spells that have a big immediate impact, or spells that you can milk for a long duration. In the latter case, Hex is ''crazy''. With scaling duration and the ability to transfer it from target to target, a single casting of Hex can potentially last you an entire adventuring day, even after you've regained the spell slot you cast it with on a short rest.

If it lasts all day then you probably didn't need it in the first place.

Concentration means that you will be taking Con Saves.

Hex is just not worth a high level spell slot. I would rather cast an encounter changing spell on round 1 than risk a TPK by doing a bit more damage over time.

Where Hex shines is in adventuring days with a lot of encounters. Hex would be good in a 12+ encounter day where enemies are slowly wearing down the party and big spells won't have much of an effect as each encounter is small.

[Wryte]

Concentration means that you will be taking Con Saves.

In my experience, concentration saves really aren't that big a deal. If you're playing at range, you're not being hit that often in the first place, so you don't have to make many. If you're playing melee, you're probably putting at least decent points into Con, so your saves aren't that bad.


Hex is just not worth a high level spell slot. I would rather cast an encounter changing spell on round 1 than risk a TPK by doing a bit more damage over time.

And if you don't have the right encounter-changing spell for that encounter? Hex will still get you solid mileage. Hex isn't always the best answer to whatever you run into, but it's a decent answer to virtually anything you run into. It's your Swiss army knife spell. If you don't have the best tool for the job, you've still at least got a tool for the job.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, so it really depends on whether that extra duration is effective. If you want to use a concentration spell in the meantime, then the up-scaled duration becomes less useful.

If it were a non-concentration spell it would be amazing. Alas...

[ad_hoc]

In my experience, concentration saves really aren't that big a deal. If you're playing at range, you're not being hit that often in the first place, so you don't have to make many. If you're playing melee, you're probably putting at least decent points into Con, so your saves aren't that bad.

If you can choose to just not be hit then you don't really need to worry much so Hex will do, but then so will anything.

[Galactkaktus]

And if you don't have the right encounter-changing spell for that encounter? Hex will still get you solid mileage. Hex isn't always the best answer to whatever you run into, but it's a decent answer to virtually anything you run into. It's your Swiss army knife spell. If you don't have the best tool for the job, you've still at least got a tool for the job.

If you don't have any spell that whould be better than a 33-43.75% increase in your damage with level3+ spells then you've probably made some very poor spell choices. If you had a character in your party that have a great athletics skill check it might still serve a very good role.

[MaxWilson]

If you can choose to just not be hit then you don't really need to worry much so Hex will do, but then so will anything.

To be fair, it could be that someone else (Moon Druid, Barbarian) is choosing to be hit instead of you. In that case, Hex is useful for killing the bad guys before your meat shield runs out of HP.

[ad_hoc]

To be fair, it could be that someone else (Moon Druid, Barbarian) is choosing to be hit instead of you. In that case, Hex is useful for killing the bad guys before your meat shield runs out of HP.

Mindless creatures aside, why are they attacking the tough creatures when they could be attacking the weak ones?

Why do the PCs get to choose who gets attacked?

[MaxWilson]

Mindless creatures aside, why are they attacking the tough creatures when they could be attacking the weak ones?

Why do the PCs get to choose who gets attacked?

You ask that question as if you can't think of an answer. Is that truly the case? You really can't think of any circumstances under which the PCs could reasonably create a front line/back line distinction?

[ad_hoc]

You ask that question as if you can't think of an answer. Is that truly the case? You really can't think of any circumstances under which the PCs could reasonably create a front line/back line distinction?

Just because the PC is in front doesn't mean the creature must attack them.

[Tanarii]

Just because the PC is in front doesn't mean the creature must attack them.
He said front line, not in front. As in a line of battle. That implies physically blocking the enemy or at least provoking an OA to get past the warlock's ally.

Of course, that requires sufficiently dense terrain with choke points, which usually means dungeons or indoors given how small most PC parties are. And of course players playing tactically as opposed to running around all willy-nilly. Plus the Warlock's allies forming a line of battle will usually provide cover to the enemies.

Edit: my experience Warlocks or other casters ability to maintain concentration is highly variable from party to party and from tactical situation to tactical situation. Most squishy casters know the best defense is not to be where you can't be hit, but that isn't always possible.

[MaxWilson]

He said front line, not in front. As in a line of battle. That implies physically blocking the enemy or at least provoking an OA to get past the warlock's ally.

Of course, that requires sufficiently dense terrain with choke points, which usually means dungeons or indoors given how small most PC parties are. And of course players playing tactically as opposed to running around all willy-nilly. Plus the Warlock's allies forming a line of battle will usually provide cover to the enemies.

Edit: my experience Warlocks or other casters ability to maintain concentration is highly variable from party to party and from tactical situation to tactical situation. Most squishy casters know the best defense is not to be where you can't be hit, but that isn't always possible.

You can create front line/back line distinctions in open terrain too. You just do it differently than you would in close terrain. In other words, you can often encourage monsters to attack certain, melee-oriented PCs instead of ranged PCs.

As an extreme example, consider the hypothetical infinite featureless plain, the most open terrain there is. If a party is fighting, I dunno, trolls and giant toads on that featureless plain, they obviously can't just put a tanky PC in a chokepoint--but they CAN send the frontline (tanky PCs) forward to threaten opportunity attacks while keeping the back line out of melee range, Dashing if necessary to counter enemy Dashes. If everybody Dashes instead of attacking every round, the geometry remains static, but the frontline (tanky PCs) get opportunity attacks on the trolls and giant frogs. Eventually the trolls have to turn around and attack the frontline instead of the back line.

Not all monsters are melee monsters, but if you look at monsters with ranged attacks, many of them (e.g. most giants) do only half as much damage at range as they do in melee, so they have an incentive to engage melee threats before engaging threats at range. And the above notes on movement still apply, unless the monsters have faster movement than the PCs do, which given MM monsters and the PHB mounted combat rules is certainly not anywhere close to 100% of the time.

Then there are the pure roleplaying forcing functions such as illusions (Disguise Self or Seeming to make the scrawny wizard look like a beefy fighter in plate mail and the beefy fighter in plate mail look like a delicious, plump fleshy merchant glowing with health and vitamin B) and even just plain exploiting the stupidity of bestial foes like T-Rexes, which don't expect man-sized prey to be capable of fighting back and can reasonably be expected to just eat whatever is closest.

Anyone who can't conceive of situations in which PCs can influence which PCs get attacked needs more imagination. Can PCs always completely control who gets attacked? No, of course not--nobody is claiming that backlines are always safe because that would be stupid. But in any situation where a front line/back line distinction has been created and is working, Hex is a good bet to be a useful spell, though not necessarily the best spell. (It depends on the situation.)

[Asmerv]

And if you don't have the right encounter-changing spell for that encounter? Hex will still get you solid mileage. Hex isn't always the best answer to whatever you run into, but it's a decent answer to virtually anything you run into. It's your Swiss army knife spell. If you don't have the best tool for the job, you've still at least got a tool for the job.

The problem at later levels in my experience is that you'd rather not spend a slot at all for a 'Swiss Army' type of an effect, because chances are you will want that slot later.

Playing a warlock becomes all about placing the right spell at the right time later on, and throwing a 'good enough' spell when not really needed is contrary to that plan. I'd rather leave 'good enough' spells to casters that can vary their response to the situation by choosing to use lower level slots.

However, someone mentioned Hex and grappling checks, and I can attest to its usefulness in this situation. Whether as a defensive measure to aid your party members escape grapples, or to help one of our party members to succeed on their grapple, Hex has a niche but potent use. Though, in these cases I'll reiterate that I'd much rather use a cheap scroll than a spell slot.

[ad_hoc]

He said front line, not in front. As in a line of battle. That implies physically blocking the enemy or at least provoking an OA to get past the warlock's ally.


Provoking an OA sure, but that isn't a big deal. It's only 1 OA per round per character.

Actually blocking creatures is hard to do. Sometimes it will be possible of course. This is the disadvantage of both ranged attacks and having low AC. The party's defense is only as strong as its weakest character.

There are also a lot of circumstances where enemy creatures have movement abilities, can come from multiple directions, ranged attacks or spells, etc. It's usually the PCs who are the invaders after all.

If it is common for the party to be able to dictate the terms of combat to this degree then the Hex doesn't matter as they're going to win easily anyway.

If the combat is an actual threat then the Hex won't be enough. The first round is the most important one.

[Galactkaktus]

Provoking an OA sure, but that isn't a big deal. It's only 1 OA per round per character.

This is what makes making a front line close to impossible in many circumstances. It's still the best option since it makes attackers pay a price for going after your weak points but it really doesn't stop them from going after the weak point just more costly. In many cases it's the best thing for the enemy to do. Since if they dash they will get to the "backline" faster and the front line probably have to dash to catch up which is a big price to pay since an attack action is generally superior to an OA which menas that the front line will output less damage so the back line has to work harder which leads to more resources being spent.

[Beelzebubba]

If it lasts all day then you probably didn't need it in the first place.

What silly non-logic.

You know what lasts all day every day? Armor!

If it lasts all day (like the Warlock in my last game) it's because he was incredibly useful as a ranged damage dealer and didn't need to use something else, because it wasn't worth it to drop the Hex. (Let alone the Strength hex on an Entangled foe.)


Where Hex shines is in adventuring days with a lot of encounters. Hex would be good in a 12+ encounter day where enemies are slowly wearing down the party and big spells won't have much of an effect as each encounter is small.

Or, maybe the Warlock is blasting every round, while other caster holds down a control spell, so both are using a single concentration spell each the entire combat - leaving their spell slots open to solve out-of-combat situations.

[MaxWilson]

This is what makes making a front line close to impossible in many circumstances. It's still the best option since it makes attackers pay a price for going after your weak points but it really doesn't stop them from going after the weak point just more costly. In many cases it's the best thing for the enemy to do. Since if they dash they will get to the "backline" faster and the front line probably have to dash to catch up which is a big price to pay since an attack action is generally superior to an OA which menas that the front line will output less damage so the back line has to work harder which leads to more resources being spent.

Q: If everybody Dashes this round instead of attacking but the frontline PCs each get an OA (which BTW can be strengthened by Warcaster, Sentinel, or Sneak Attack), who benefited the most from this round of combat?

A: the team that got the OAs.

[Galactkaktus]

Q: If everybody Dashes this round instead of attacking but the frontline PCs each get an OA (which BTW can be strengthened by Warcaster, Sentinel, or Sneak Attack), who benefited the most from this round of combat?

A: the team that got the OAs.

The team that got the OAs got some attacks(All of them will probably not get an OAs it whould be pretty stupid to run past in a way that gives everyone an Aoo) which is why i said that it's the best thing to do since you make it more costly to go for the back line. The other team gained the abillity to attack the back line.

So the question is what is worth more a couple of OAs or the ability to attack whatever they are trying to protect? It's not OAs for nothing...

[RSP]

Keep in mind Hex isn't just the damage. As has been covered, it's good on certain builds. One of those builds involves a teammate making shoves and grapples, which also has been covered.

Another is the blaster with Repelling Blast. Doing 3.5 extra damage per hit while controlling the battlefield is a nice perk. It also tends to keep the melee monsters at bay, helping keep the number of Con checks lower. If using this in unison with another character's on-going AoE effect (like Wall of Fire), even better.

[Willie the Duck]

If front lines didn't exist, all the arguments about how good Dex builds are, sharpshooter is, how spellcasters still outperform martials, etc. wouldn't exist. Clearly frontlines exist, in people's games at least, regardless of how well the rules enforce this (and yes, I would have preferred a little more disincentive to rushing past the front line to attack the squishy rear). Regardless, that small factor is not going to make or break whether Hex is useful or not.

I think the #1 factor is 1) how often one can pull off casting hex and then getting a short rest to recharge (and still both use hex and not have to constrain your otherwise sensible actions to keep your concentration going), and 2) how often you run into the situation of not having a better concentration spell to be using in a given situation. Both of them are going to be very DM- and adventure style specific.