Half-orc Boar Totem Barbarian. What to do with this?

[Arkhios]

So, my previous character kicked the bucket and I was "coaxed" to make a Half-orc "juggernaut" -- barbarian with Scythe and Power Attack.

Stats were rolled, system is 3.5, and we are allowed to use almost everything from d20srd.org, but nothing else.

Final statistics are:
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 5, Wis 8, Cha 5
Level 3
Feats: Heavy Armor Proficiency, Power Attack

Boar Totem barbarian variant trades Fast Movement, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge, so Heavy Armor won't be an issue.

I had to roll the character pretty much on the fly, but I have a habit of planning ahead, and thus now I'm wondering, where to go next?

At 4th level, I'll improve Con by 1, to 14.

Beyond that, I have no idea.

Any suggestions?

...Oh, and his alignment is Chaotic Neutral.

[ComaVision]

1. You have restrictive sources.
2. You don't have any positive mental stats to pick up any kind of casting/manifesting.
3. You don't qualify to pick up trip feats.
4. Your alignment prohibits you from picking up Imp Trip without prerequisites from Passive Way Monk, and you didn't pick up the Wolf Totem either.

I'm stumped. I can't think of anything you can do.

[Arkhios]

I guess I'll just make a pure barbarian and pick the "generic" barbarian feats such as Cleave, Great Cleave, and Iron Will.

For stats, I'll probably improve Dex by 1, to 14, and the rest to either Con, Dex, or Str (in that priority).

If anything, at least I'll have greater DR eventually, and be a particularly hard nut to crack, grinding my way through my enemies.

To be honest, this was pretty much the only option I could do with these stats, because we already have a cleric, a rogue, and a wizard, and fighter is pretty darn boring.

I'm playing the character just as retard as it looks like, so it's probable that he'll end up dead soon enough.
Note: I'm not purposefully trying to kill the character per se. It's pretty fun to deal this crazy amount of damage every turn, and I like barbarians in general. I just I would've preferred a slightly better wisdom at the very least.

[daremetoidareyo]

insist that you are a cleric. Solve all of your problems with violence and your axe. Shout, "Turn undead!" When you attack Undead. Shout "cure light wounds" and hand over a flask of whiskey.

[Troacctid]

You could multiclass as a Ranger (or Wilderness Rogue) and go into Horizon Walker. Or just go Ranger and pick up wild shape. I think either one would be better than straight Barbarian.

[Malroth]

Artificer 1/ Barbarian 2/ artificer 2 /renagade mastermaker 10/ warforged Juggernaut 5

You want to be a juggernaut, this lets you be a juggernaut

[Arkhios]

Artificer 1/ Barbarian 2/ artificer 2 /renagade mastermaker 10/ warforged Juggernaut 5

You want to be a juggernaut, this lets you be a juggernaut

Sarcasm isn't very helpful here...

You could multiclass as a Ranger (or Wilderness Rogue) and go into Horizon Walker. Or just go Ranger and pick up wild shape. I think either one would be better than straight Barbarian.

I've already taken heavy armor proficiency so I'm not sure why should I take Wild Shape ranger, because the armor I wear doesn't help in wild shape, and the fast movement wouldn't work with heavy armor either.

I guess Wilderness Rogue wouldn't be bad choice, in theory, though the d6 hit die has me doubtful of my survival. I'm the hard hitter in our group and always in the front line. Also, while I know sneak attack does work with any type of weapon, my BAB wouldn't be as good as it could be, dropping my chances to land those heavy hits.

Thug variant fighter would be somewhat thematic, but urban tracking would be hardly worth it, and with int 5 I would get one skill rank each level whether I had 2+int or 4+int skill ranks from the class. Sneak Attack variant fighter would be funny, but I'm not sure if it's really worth losing the fighter bonus feats.

Bonus feat variant rogue might be worthwhile though.

[Troacctid]

I've already taken heavy armor proficiency so I'm not sure why should I take Wild Shape ranger, because the armor I wear doesn't help in wild shape, and the fast movement wouldn't work with heavy armor either.
For Ranger, wild shape is more of a utility ability, since you don't get the big bruiser forms. It can help with mobility, scouting, that sort of thing. Maybe you need to fly or breathe underwater or whatever. You also get an animal companion that can help with action economy or do, like, flanking stuff, or whatever.

Basically, the idea is that Barbarian is a frontloaded class and you already got all the best stuff from it, so it makes sense to go wide rather than tall and expand into secondary roles, since the opportunity cost of doing so is low.


I guess Wilderness Rogue wouldn't be bad choice, in theory, though the d6 hit die has me doubtful of my survival. I'm the hard hitter in our group and always in the front line. Also, while I know sneak attack does work with any type of weapon, my BAB wouldn't be as good as it could be, dropping my chances to land those heavy hits.
Mostly it's to get into Horizon Walker. You need Knowledge (Geography) ranks.

I'd probably go for the feat variant instead of sneak attack. If you take a 2-level dip, that can give you Weapon Focus to counteract the missed point of BAB, and the other feat could be something like Blind-Fight, Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Reflexes, I dunno. Then you take another level of Barbarian (because you can't get Endurance until 6th level anyway, so may as well pick up the second use of rage), and then go Horizon Walker.

[Arkhios]

I'd probably go for the feat variant instead of sneak attack. If you take a 2-level dip, that can give you Weapon Focus to counteract the missed point of BAB, and the other feat could be something like Blind-Fight, Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Reflexes, I dunno. Then you take another level of Barbarian (because you can't get Endurance until 6th level anyway, so may as well pick up the second use of rage), and then go Horizon Walker.

Once Horizon Walker, what choices would you recommend (besides desert, which is pretty obvious)?

The way I see it, it doesn't seem to be much worth it to take all those levels, so I guess I should just grab Desert Mastery and return to advancing barbarian.


PS. we can have only one variant per class, so I can't take both wilderness and bonus feats, only one or the other, sadly.

[Troacctid]

Once Horizon Walker, what choices would you recommend (besides desert, which is pretty obvious)?

The way I see it, it doesn't seem to be much worth it to take all those levels, so I guess I should just grab Desert Mastery and return to advancing barbarian.
The planar terrain masteries are the big money payoff. Shifting is by far the best one; unlimited Dimension Doors is insanely strong, and the main reason why the class is worth taking. It's soooo good. After that you get Cavernous, Fiery, Cold, and Aligned, and they aren't quite as amazing, but all of them are easily better than what you'd get if you went back to the base class.

[Arkhios]

Oooops! Somehow I forgot to check if the stats I rolled qualified for a reroll (if the combined total of ability modifiers is less than +1 or if the highest score is 13 or lower).

Luckily my DM noticed and mentioned this to me, and allowed me to reroll. However, I were to keep the character otherwise unchanged. No prob, I'm kinda fond of this massive chunk of meat with about as much brain activity than an ogre would have.

So, the rerolls were waay better than the first rolls: 17, 15, 14, 13, 10, 10.

I decided, however, to keep my int at 5, because it's a character-defining trait.

Stats became (after racials):
Str 19, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 5, Wis 14, Cha 8.

Now, what should I do with THESE? xD

[ComaVision]

NOW, I think you should go Cleric or PsyWar to start picking up buffs and versatility. It's kind of a pain that you spent a feat slot and you'll get Heavy Armor Proficiency from either of those but eh. You can pick up the Extra Rage feat at some point if you find the daily usages limiting, and otherwise you're not missing anything big from Barbarian.

[Arkhios]

NOW, I think you should go Cleric or PsyWar to start picking up buffs and versatility. It's kind of a pain that you spent a feat slot and you'll get Heavy Armor Proficiency from either of those but eh. You can pick up the Extra Rage feat at some point if you find the daily usages limiting, and otherwise you're not missing anything big from Barbarian.

I'm pretty sure Extra Rage feat was not in the sources we can use, otherwise I might have taken it at 1st level instead. The thing about Boar Totem which really appealed to me is that while you lose trap sense (booriing), uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and fast movement (wouldn't be able to use it anyway in heavy armor), is that at level 7, when the DR/- kicks in, it'll be twice as effective - starting with DR 2/-, increasing by 2/- every 3 levels thereafter, reaching to a maximum of 8/- over the course of the campaign (it should end around level 17). That, and the rage lasting 2 more rounds than normal per use.

[ComaVision]

I'm pretty sure Extra Rage feat was not in the sources we can use, otherwise I might have taken it at 1st level instead.

Oops, sorry, your sources slipped my mind there.


The thing about Boar Totem which really appealed to me is that while you lose trap sense (booriing), uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and fast movement (wouldn't be able to use it anyway in heavy armor), is that at level 7, when the DR/- kicks in, it'll be twice as effective - starting with DR 2/-, increasing by 2/- every 3 levels thereafter, reaching to a maximum of 8/- over the course of the campaign (it should end around level 17). That, and the rage lasting 2 more rounds than normal per use.

I don't think that's right about DR. It says that your DR is one higher than normal, and follows the normal Barbarian progression (5/- at 16).

I think the PsyWar powers will give your better defenses anyway, even if the DR was double. Vigor is probably going to save your HP more, and you'll be harder to hit if you use other defensive powers.

[Arkhios]

Oops, sorry, your sources slipped my mind there.



I don't think that's right about DR. It says that your DR is one higher than normal, and follows the normal Barbarian progression (5/- at 16).

I think the PsyWar powers will give your better defenses anyway, even if the DR was double. Vigor is probably going to save your HP more, and you'll be harder to hit if you use other defensive powers.

Hmm. I guess you're right about that the DR doesn't increase that much after all. Pity. Oh well, all the more reason to try and get an adamantine full-plate! I guess I'll take at least one more level in barbarian first, and then start taking Cleric levels. I forgot to mention that we're playing The Original Rise of the Runelords (the adventure path set in Golarion) and we get to use Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting for additional rules. There's this variant cleric which replaces domains entirely for BAB = Cleric level, d10 hit die, and - slightly redundantly - proficiency for your deity's favored weapon. It's a bit more appealing than Psychic Warrior because of the hit die and BAB. And Good Will saves.

[Falontani]

I have no idea what the SRD allows, and the SRD is a blocked site at work; so I have no idea if this is available, but try to grab some bear warrior, use the Improved Grab and become a grappler that can use his weapon to grapple. Psychic Warrior has Expansion which is always awesome on a melee.

[Arkhios]

I have no idea what the SRD allows, and the SRD is a blocked site at work; so I have no idea if this is available, but try to grab some bear warrior, use the Improved Grab and become a grappler that can use his weapon to grapple. Psychic Warrior has Expansion which is always awesome on a melee.

I'm using scythe because lol dat crit damage! xD

That said, Bear Warrior is from Complete Warrior and thus isn't among the resources usable in SRD. (Essentially, SRD includes Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, and Deities & Demigods, with the exception of not including any setting/lore-specific options; and still not everything from them is freely available. For example race variants, gestalt, racial paragons, and prestige bard/paladin/ranger are off-limits.)

Also, how would I be able to use Scythe in grapple if Bear Warrior turns (completely) into a bear form (not a hybrid!) when raging?

[Zaq]

You have non-terrible WIS now. War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) is an interesting class if you're bored with taking base class levels. You've gotta swing 8 ranks in K: Psionics somehow, which might be difficult without dipping into PsyWar early on, but it offers some relatively minor psionic tricks and a handful of interesting class features, the most defining of which is Sweeping Strike. It also doesn't require any feats to get in, which is nice.

You can't manifest while raging, sadly, but you can either take powers that are less directly combat-focused to give you a deeper bag of tricks before initiative is rolled or else take powers that you mostly use before you rage (swift action ones, for example).

[Arkhios]

I think I'd rather not aim for War Mind as it involves some pretty hefty requirements (8 ranks in K: psionics with my int 5 is going to take a "while"), so I'd probably best to stick with only base classes or easy-access prestige classes.

[Arkhios]

how about this:

I'm currently at 3rd level, and decided to keep the (new) rolls as they were, and swapped some scores so that my stats are now:
str 19, dex 14, con 15, int 8, wis 13, cha 8.

Starting at 4th character level, I'll become a Psychic Warrior. As my 4th level stat increase I'll take +1 Wisdom, so my manifesting ability score provides me an extra power point (which I need since PsyWar doesn't give any at 1st level by default). As my first Bonus Feat, I'll take Psionic Talent so I'll be able to use my first Psionic Power a total of 3/day instead of just 1.

Beyond 4th, I'll remain as PsyWar, keep taking ranks K: Psionics at every level. I may drop the thought to my DM that I might start searching for the Codex of whatever the War Mind needs as a special requirement. If I don't find one, that's also fine, because the more I look at it, the more I like what the basic PsyWar powers can do for me. At some point I may take 4th level in barbarian so I'll get that 2nd Rage per day, but for now it's fine that I have only one.

[ComaVision]

That sounds like a pretty good plan.

On PsyWar vs. War Mind: They manifest off the same list so the only real reason to switch to War Mind is if you really like the class features. Otherwise, I'd use the few skill points you get on skills that are more likely to see use.

[Arkhios]

That sounds like a pretty good plan.

On PsyWar vs. War Mind: They manifest off the same list so the only real reason to switch to War Mind is if you really like the class features. Otherwise, I'd use the few skill points you get on skills that are more likely to see use.

Yes, I'm aware of what becoming a War Mind would mean in terms to power levels. Although, I'd say the steady (1:1/class level) increase in BAB and better hit die (d8 vs d10) are both meaningful factors in favor of War Mind, though I suppose they could be counted among class features.

At least I would get slightly more power points (I think?) plus manifester level stacks either way. Low level PsyWar powers are pretty good so the chance to learn more of them is tempting.

[Zaq]

Since War Mind grants its own manifesting rather than advancing existing manifesting, the manifester levels between War Mind and Psychic Warrior absolutely do not stack. It'll be rare for a build to be much stronger for containing both PsyWar and War Mind versus just having one of those two.

If you're looking for a class that offers full BAB and advances PsyWar manifesting, try Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) instead.

[Arkhios]

Since War Mind grants its own manifesting rather than advancing existing manifesting, the manifester levels between War Mind and Psychic Warrior absolutely do not stack. It'll be rare for a build to be much stronger for containing both PsyWar and War Mind versus just having one of those two.

If you're looking for a class that offers full BAB and advances PsyWar manifesting, try Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) instead.

Derp, I had Slayer and War Mind weirdly mixed up in my mind. You're absolutely right. But Power Points stack, right?

[Zaq]

Yes, you only have one pool of power points, regardless of how many sources those power points come from. But of course, as I hope everyone involved knows very well, you cannot spend more power points on one manifestation than your manifester level, so there's definitely a level of diminishing returns when it comes to multiclassing between distinct manifesting classes.

[Arkhios]

Oooh! I just noticed something. At 6th character level (PsyWar 3) I could take Open Minded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#openMinded) and instantly gain 5 more skill ranks to spend normally – getting the required 8 ranks in Knowledge (psionics) and qualify for War Mind at as early as 7th level, if I've found either an instructor (unlikely in the campaign) or the Codex (more probable because the campaign has implications in regards to gaining access to esoteric knowledge)! :D

...Although, it's probably not worth the fuss, as I might not find the Codex so soon (or at all, for that matter)... Still, it does open up certain possibilities.

Either way, I could use some suggestions as to what power to take at 1st PsyWar level, because Expansion lasts only for 1 round/level and takes a standard action to manifest, and as such, it's much better taken at higher level.

[Troacctid]

Given SRD only, I usually go for Conceal Thoughts or Empty Mind. I also like Call Item, Deflection Field, and Primal Fear, but they're from other sources.

[Arkhios]

looking at the Overchannel feat got me confused about the manifester level.

the feat says this (according to SRD):

Normal
Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.

So... To my defense, I was "half-right" about my previous claim that PsyWar and War Mind would stack in terms of manifester level. But I'm starting to think that there's an error in this feat.

So, which one it actually is?

Also, about the powers, since PsyWar learns so few of them, I would prefer power(s) that last longer than an instant. I was thinking about Defensive Precognition for my first power. It would add up to my role in the party as the "tank".