Picking spells and items for an epic level Sorcerer-based Swiftblade(read post)

[danielxcutter]

The build goes Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 8/Sorcerer 3 - so 20th level Sorcerer casting. I know a lot of useful gish spells, but picking the right ones is harder than I expected. And I'm not sure where to spend all that 25th level PC wealth either.

Chosen spells: Shield, Nerveskitter, True Strike, Wraithstrike, Glitterdust, Bladeweave, Haste, Greater Mage Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Fly, Vampiric Touch, Dimension Door, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Thunderlance, Sarruk's Triple Strike, Sonic Shield, Arcane Fusion, Greater Dispel Magic, True Seeing, Arcane Spellsurge, Greater Teleport, Greater Arcane Fusion, Lightning Ring, Greater Spell Matrix.

Decided items: Belt of Magnificence +6, Slippers of the Battle Dancer, custom Runestaff, orange prism ioun stone, Robe of Mysterious Conjuration, Ring of Arcane Might, Hathran Mask of True Seeing, Handy Haversack.

Longsword enhancements chosen: Spell Storing, Bloodstone, Shattermantle, Eager, Warning, Wounding.

Runestaff spells(planning on one all-day buff for each spell level): Heart of Air, Heart of Water, Heart of Fire, Heart of Earth, Superior Resistance, Energy Adaption(all 3/day), Shapechange(1/day).

...Well?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Pick up a Runestaff (MIC). It's essentially more spells known and cheap enough to be a must-have. Use it for all-day buffs and utility spells so you don't have to switch to it in combat.
If you're up for cheese combine it with Ancestral Relic (BoED).
A Drake Helm (ExH) is another option to know more spells, but it gets expensive real fast.

Look at the List of Necessary Magic Items. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) Some things your spell take care of, but you definitely want at least an item with Soulfire.
A Third Eye: Conceal would free up an 8th level spell known. The Proof against Transmutation armor enhancement is also very nice to have if you can afford it.
If there are other casters in the party a Ring of Theurgy (CArc) can be very useful for a sorcerer, as can a Ring of Enduring Arcana (CMage). You don't want to lose your buffs after all.

A Robe of Mysterious Conjuration (MIC) lets you summon spontaneously as a standard action (even if you don't know the spells).
Summon Monster is a big time list extender, so this is worthwhile. Check the Summoner's Desk Reference. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5)

Pick up CL boosters. Raising Caster Level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444635-Raising-Caster-Level) has you covered.

If Dragon Magazine material is one the table get your weapon made of Oerthblood (Dr351).
You can also trade in your familiar for the Imbued Staff ACF (Dr338) and pick up the Recharge Staff feat for even more spell selection.

[DarkSoul]

Slippers seem to be wasted gold if you're using a greatsword. Are epic spells available? If not, persistent wraithstrike + tenacious magic epic feat seem like a no-brainer.

[danielxcutter]

Pick up a Runestaff (MIC). It's essentially more spells known and cheap enough to be a must-have. Use it for all-day buffs and utility spells so you don't have to switch to it in combat.

Expected this to come up. Maybe one with the Heart of X series in it.


If you're up for cheese combine it with Ancestral Relic (BoED).

Um... Aside from the fact that I'm actually not up for cheese and I was trying to make this independent of alignment... What does that do again? :smallconfused: I forget.


A Drake Helm (ExH) is another option to know more spells, but it gets expensive real fast.

Dude. 24th level WBL is 1,800,000 gp, 25th should be even higher; cost isn't exactly an issue. The real problem is that it's setting specific and I don't feel like it fits the character that well.


Look at the List of Necessary Magic Items. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) Some things your spell take care of, but you definitely want at least an item with Soulfire.

See the part about Ancestral Relic. Not Good-required, but... Eh. How much does a custom item of continual Death Ward cost?


A Third Eye: Conceal would free up an 8th level spell known. The Proof against Transmutation armor enhancement is also very nice to have if you can afford it.

Hmm... I prefer solving the problems with class features first before resorting to items. As for PoT, that doesn't block Shapechanging oneself, I hope? What does that enhancement do again?


If there are other casters in the party a Ring of Theurgy (CArc) can be very useful for a sorcerer, as can a Ring of Enduring Arcana (CMage). You don't want to lose your buffs after all.

Well... This is a thought exercise-ish thing, but I do suppose she knows enough allied casters to try the Ring of Theurgy. Any suggestions for non-Sorcerer spells?

The Ring of Enduring Arcana seems nice! I think Chain Dispel has a CL cap of 25, but this should counter that fairly well.


A Robe of Mysterious Conjuration (MIC) lets you summon spontaneously as a standard action (even if you don't know the spells).
Summon Monster is a big time list extender, so this is worthwhile. Check the Summoner's Desk Reference. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5)

Can I say "Yes" hard enough? I was wishing there was room for some summoning spells... Hello Arcane Spellsurge!


Pick up CL boosters. Raising Caster Level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444635-Raising-Caster-Level) has you covered.

Already planned on the Orange Prism, but thank you, this is very helpful.


If Dragon Magazine material is one the table get your weapon made of Oerthblood (Dr351).
You can also trade in your familiar for the Imbued Staff ACF (Dr338) and pick up the Recharge Staff feat for even more spell selection.

Using first-party material only, sorry.


Slippers seem to be wasted gold if you're using a greatsword. Are epic spells available? If not, persistent wraithstrike + tenacious magic epic feat seem like a no-brainer.

Good point on the Slippers; switching to longsword. Don't have room for that Epic feat(which is really useful for this build actually, darn it :smallannoyed:), but cheese-free epic spells will be on the hypothetical table. Maybe a competence bonus to Charisma?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Expected this to come up. Maybe one with the Heart of X series in it.
There's honestly too many spells that'd be good on a runestaff to list them all here. I'd suggest checking a wizard handbook.
Of those you have as spells known at the very least Greater Mage Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Superior Resistance and Mind Blank would work just fine on a runestaff. Cast them at the start of the day then put the staff in your Handy Haversack.


Um... Aside from the fact that I'm actually not up for cheese and I was trying to make this independent of alignment... What does that do again? :smallconfused: I forget.
There are probably several pages written on why Ancestral Relic rocks and how to abuse it. I'll give you the highlights.
- it's a customizable magic item that you don't need item creation feats to upgrade.
- you can sacrifice other items at market price (instead of selling them for half) and add their value to the item
- you can add properties and change what properties the item has by meditating on it for 8 hours per 1,000gp in added value (in a consecrated/hallowed area)

An Ancestral Relic Runestaff means you can switch around what spells it offers by doing the meditating.
And if you don't change the spell levels (the value) you can do it instantly. That's the cheese part.
But even without that a customizable magic item that you can add full market value of your loot to is worth a feat.


Dude. 24th level WBL is 1,800,000 gp, 25th should be even higher; cost isn't exactly an issue. The real problem is that it's setting specific and I don't feel like it fits the character that well.
Presumably you want to buy more than that. A Drake Helm isn't cheap if you actually want to add a good selection of spells. Have a quote:

Price: The drake-helm itself costs 1,000 gp (one socket), 8,000 gp (two sockets), 18,000 (three sockets), or 32,000 gp (four sockets).
An attuned Siberys dragonshard costs 6,000 gp (1st), 9,000 gp (2nd), 14,000 gp (3rd), 26,000 gp (4th), 35,000 gp (5th), 46,000 gp (6th), 69,000 (7th), 84,000 (8th), or 101,000 (9th).
I could spend your whole WBL just on those shards and still have spells i want left over.


See the part about Ancestral Relic. Not Good-required, but... Eh. How much does a custom item of continual Death Ward cost?
I don't see what Soulfire has to do with Ancestral Relic. It's completely alignment neutral. Being from the BoED doesn't change that.
It's also one of the most important immunities you need. If you only ever get a single armor enhancement i'd make it Soulfire, no question.

An item of constant Death Ward costs 112,000gp (7x4x2000x2) as per the custom item rules. A +1 Soulfire armor is a lot cheaper. Even one with +10 equivalent enhancements is cheaper.
You can also put in on Bracers of Armor if you don't want to wear armor for some reason (as per the rules in A&EG).


Hmm... I prefer solving the problems with class features first before resorting to items. As for PoT, that doesn't block Shapechanging oneself, I hope? What does that enhancement do again?
Some effects are a lot more efficient to get on gear. Sorcerers only ever get 3 8th level spells known. Freeing one up is valuable.
Not to mention an item can't be dispelled and is only suppressed if specifically targeted.

PaT protects against any transmutation spell or effect that would alter your form, which includes polymorph, petrification and disintegration.
Actual immunity against petrification (and not just Flesh to Stone) is otherwise very hard to come by, as is immunity to something like disintegrating breath weapons.
And a hostile Polymorph Any Object can ruin your whole day. And yes, you specifically can allow transmutations you want through.

It's a little pricy for normal campaigns, but in an epic campaign you really have no reason not to take it. And plenty of reason to want it.


Well... This is a thought exercise-ish thing, but I do suppose she knows enough allied casters to try the Ring of Theurgy. Any suggestions for non-Sorcerer spells?

The Ring of Enduring Arcana seems nice! I think Chain Dispel has a CL cap of 25, but this should counter that fairly well.
Any good personal range cleric or druid buff. Or Body outside Body if you know a wu jen. Or even just Heal.

As for dispelling protection, keep in mind that the enemy rolls d20+bonus. Even a normal Dispel Magic can dispel spells up to CL 19 if your enemy rolls lucky.
A full CL Chain Dispel will remove your buffs on a 6 or better without CL boosters on your part. With the ring it's a 10 or better. Assuming the enemy doesn't have the Inquisition domain or a Dispelling Chord.
The Ring of Enduring Arcana isn't immunity to dispel. It just helps. But it's helpful enough and cheap enough to add the effect to any other ring you may be wearing.
You'll still want to boost your CL in addition to that.


Can I say "Yes" hard enough? I was wishing there was room for some summoning spells... Hello Arcane Spellsurge!
The robe is pretty cool, yeah. I don't think it's usable with Arcane Spellsurge though.
I'm AFB, but iirc you activate the robe and sacrifice a slot to summon, you don't actually cast the spell. I may be wrong about that though, so you'll have to check.


Already planned on the Orange Prism, but thank you, this is very helpful.
Unless you have Practiced Spellcaster you're already behind, so more is better.
Even if you had full CL more is still better.

[danielxcutter]

There's honestly too many spells that'd be good on a runestaff to list them all here. I'd suggest checking a wizard handbook.
Of those you have as spells known at the very least Greater Mage Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Superior Resistance and Mind Blank would work just fine on a runestaff. Cast them at the start of the day then put the staff in your Handy Haversack.

Hmm... Personally I don't feel like moving Greater Mage Armor or Greater Magic Weapon, but I'm fine with the other two! Any other long duration Abjuration school spells to add? To fit with the theme, you know.

BTW, can you apply metamagic feats when casting spells from a runestaff? AFB right now.


There are probably several pages written on why Ancestral Relic rocks and how to abuse it. I'll give you the highlights.
- it's a customizable magic item that you don't need item creation feats to upgrade.
- you can sacrifice other items at market price (instead of selling them for half) and add their value to the item
- you can add properties and change what properties the item has by meditating on it for 8 hours per 1,000gp in added value (in a consecrated/hallowed area)

An Ancestral Relic Runestaff means you can switch around what spells it offers by doing the meditating.
And if you don't change the spell levels (the value) you can do it instantly. That's the cheese part.
But even without that a customizable magic item that you can add full market value of your loot to is worth a feat.

Sadly there's no room for more feats anyway, but that is quite a good feat. Perhaps on a future build.


Presumably you want to buy more than that. A Drake Helm isn't cheap if you actually want to add a good selection of spells. Have a quote:

I could spend your whole WBL just on those shards and still have spells i want left over.

Well yeah, but if I'm only interested in getting a few spells... Wasn't planning on taking it anyways since it's so setting specific.


I don't see what Soulfire has to do with Ancestral Relic. It's completely alignment neutral. Being from the BoED doesn't change that.
It's also one of the most important immunities you need. If you only ever get a single armor enhancement i'd make it Soulfire, no question.

An item of constant Death Ward costs 112,000gp (7x4x2000x2) as per the custom item rules. A +1 Soulfire armor is a lot cheaper. Even one with +10 equivalent enhancements is cheaper.
You can also put in on Bracers of Armor if you don't want to wear armor for some reason (as per the rules in A&EG).

Been thinking about this, and I suppose you're right. That being said, I still think that custom item's worth it, it's just not as cost efficient.

I'm thinking of Thistledown Padding from Races of the Wild. +1 AC, max Dex bonus +10, and no ASF chance. Sound nice?


Some effects are a lot more efficient to get on gear. Sorcerers only ever get 3 8th level spells known. Freeing one up is valuable.
Not to mention an item can't be dispelled and is only suppressed if specifically targeted.

PaT protects against any transmutation spell or effect that would alter your form, which includes polymorph, petrification and disintegration.
Actual immunity against petrification (and not just Flesh to Stone) is otherwise very hard to come by, as is immunity to something like disintegrating breath weapons.
And a hostile Polymorph Any Object can ruin your whole day. And yes, you specifically can allow transmutations you want through.

It's a little pricy for normal campaigns, but in an epic campaign you really have no reason not to take it. And plenty of reason to want it.

Fair enough. PaT is +5, right? +1 soulfire thistledown padding of protection against transmutation sounds nice.


Any good personal range cleric or druid buff. Or Body outside Body if you know a wu jen. Or even just Heal.

Hmm... Already got enough buffs I think. Heal and the like will be more efficient.


As for dispelling protection, keep in mind that the enemy rolls d20+bonus. Even a normal Dispel Magic can dispel spells up to CL 19 if your enemy rolls lucky.
A full CL Chain Dispel will remove your buffs on a 6 or better without CL boosters on your part. With the ring it's a 10 or better. Assuming the enemy doesn't have the Inquisition domain or a Dispelling Chord.
The Ring of Enduring Arcana isn't immunity to dispel. It just helps. But it's helpful enough and cheap enough to add the effect to any other ring you may be wearing.
You'll still want to boost your CL in addition to that.

Actually the build includes Practiced Spellcaster anyways, but hey, nothing wrong with a higher CL after all.



The robe is pretty cool, yeah. I don't think it's usable with Arcane Spellsurge though.
I'm AFB, but iirc you activate the robe and sacrifice a slot to summon, you don't actually cast the spell. I may be wrong about that though, so you'll have to check.

Still more than worth it though! It uses a different slot from armor I hope?

[danielxcutter]

Um... Anyone?

Also, updating the OP.