It's easier to RP a low charisma character than a high one

[nickl_2000]

I have two active characters (well one's on hold until the other ones campaign is over), and extremely high Charisma (20) Glamour Bard and a very low charisma (6) Moon Druid.

What does it say about me that my extremely low charisma mood druid is way easier to play in social situations?


He's direct, non-subtle, and has no social graces. He doesn't really worry about offending people, because he hasn't been around enough people to ever realize that he's doing it. There have been several encounters where one player has said "Why aren't you stopping him" and the other responded "because I find it entertaining and he's actually getting stuff done." Although once a PC did grab mine around the mouth and physically pull mine out of a room :smallbiggrin:

[mephnick]

Agreed, though mostly I play low CHA characters because faffing about talking to people isn't what I'm interested in. My friend makes high CHA characters every game because he loves the social pillar of the game. I let him do his thing and tune out a bit.

[nickl_2000]

Agreed, though mostly I play low CHA characters because faffing about talking to people isn't what I'm interested in. My friend makes high CHA characters every game because he loves the social pillar of the game. I let him do his thing and tune out a bit.

Playing the bard was actually a stretch character for me. I created him to be a challenge myself, and he is way more challenging. He's still fun to play, but it's a lot more challenging.

[JNAProductions]

I have two active characters (well one's on hold until the other ones campaign is over), and extremely high Charisma (20) Glamour Bard and a very low charisma (6) Moon Druid.

What does it say about me that my extremely low charisma mood druid is way easier to play in social situations?


He's direct, non-subtle, and has no social graces. He doesn't really worry about offending people, because he hasn't been around enough people to ever realize that he's doing it. There have been several encounters where one player has said "Why aren't you stopping him" and the other responded "because I find it entertaining and he's actually getting stuff done." Although once a PC did grab mine around the mouth and physically pull mine out of a room :smallbiggrin:

It says your real life charisma is 1. Get rekt, scrub!

In all seriousness, it probably just means (given the whole situation) you're a very blunt person. I'm sure you CAN manage social graces in polite company, but you prefer to not have to.

Plus, I'd say that playing a character who doesn't care about what others think is inherently easier than one who does. The first one can and will say anything, so you need no filter. The other one needs a filter, since they'd consider their words more carefully. To put another way, you find it easier because it is easier.

[Waterdeep Merch]

All three of the mental stats are kind of like that. In my circles, intelligence is the hardest one. Only a small handful of the players I've run across can actually roleplay a smart character well.

Though it seems there's also some wish fulfillment going on in who chooses high mental stats. The least smart person in our group has played high intelligence characters for nearly half of all their games, the least charming person keeps trying to play high charisma, and wisdom has practically no correlation whatsoever. I'd say on the whole, my players are fairly unwise in-game.

[Snivlem]

What does it say about me that my extremely low charisma mood druid is way easier to play in social situations?


It sais that you dont have 20 charisma, but probably higher than 6. A king may choose his garment as he will, a beggar can not his poverty.

[nickl_2000]

It says your real life charisma is 1. Get rekt, scrub!

:smallbiggrin:



In all seriousness, it probably just means (given the whole situation) you're a very blunt person. I'm sure you CAN manage social graces in polite company, but you prefer to not have to.

Plus, I'd say that playing a character who doesn't care about what others think is inherently easier than one who does. The first one can and will say anything, so you need no filter. The other one needs a filter, since they'd consider their words more carefully. To put another way, you find it easier because it is easier.

Oddly enough, I'm relatively diplomatic in real life. I'm in a job where I interact with enough people that I need some modicum of diplomacy to survive. It's likely that I enjoy the 6 charisma character because he is free to say the things I have to filter out in real life. If my character thinks that the NPC is being an utter moron, he can tell the NPC that he is being an utter moron :smallcool:

[Dudewithknives]

You could always do what I did.

Play a character with a high charisma who is pretending to have a low charisma.

I played a rogue who threw people off by pretending to be a social doofus and oaf, he was actually a Swashbuckler with 18 Charisma and expertise in bluff to throw people off.

[nickl_2000]

It sais that you dont have 20 charisma, but probably higher than 6. A king may choose his garment as he will, a beggar can not his poverty.

probably? Ouch! :smallbiggrin:

[JNAProductions]

:smallbiggrin:

Oddly enough, I'm relatively diplomatic in real life. I'm in a job where I interact with enough people that I need some modicum of diplomacy to survive. It's likely that I enjoy the 6 charisma character because he is free to say the things I have to filter out in real life. If my character thinks that the NPC is being an utter moron, he can tell the NPC that he is being an utter moron :smallcool:

I never said you weren't. I said you PREFER to be blunt.

Except... Wait, no, I actually said you WERE blunt, to just that you prefer to be. So my bad there.

But what I SHOULD'VE said is that you PREFER to be blunt. Or hell, maybe not even that-you like being nice in real life, but it can be fun to play someone who isn't in a harmless game. No one in real life is getting hurt by your character talking like an ass.

[nickl_2000]

I never said you weren't. I said you PREFER to be blunt.

Except... Wait, no, I actually said you WERE blunt, to just that you prefer to be. So my bad there.

But what I SHOULD'VE said is that you PREFER to be blunt. Or hell, maybe not even that-you like being nice in real life, but it can be fun to play someone who isn't in a harmless game. No one in real life is getting hurt by your character talking like an ass.

Amen to wishing I could be blunt. Do you know how nice it would be in a meeting, just once, to be able to say to a customer "this is literally the worst idea I have ever heard in my life? If I were to do it that way it would waste months of our time, be completely unusable by our customers, and cost millions of dollars to redo."?

[smcmike]

This assumes that low charisma = blunt. I associate it more with being a wallflower, or lacking in social confidence. I think it’s pretty easy to imagine someone who is very offensive/blunt, but able to dominate a room with a large personality. I would not call that person low charisma - maybe low wisdom, as they fail to see how others perceive them, but it’s the room-filling personality that is charisma, for me.

I’m currently playing a character with low intelligence and low charisma. I find them both hard - I don’t want to limit myself in figuring out quest clues, and I don’t like sitting back and letting others do all of the talking. So, I’m blunt, like you said. But it doesn’t quite feel right.

High mental stats are also hard, of course, mostly because demonstrating high intelligence or high charisma requires help from the DM. Sherlock Holmes is a fun character, but only because his insane theories based upon the tiniest clues are correct. Showing those smarts off in a game is awkward, because you don’t have the freedom to just make things up, and if the DM does it for you, that’s no fun either.

[Tanarii]

Blunt and direct isn't an issue, thats usually still quite charismatic. So is rude and crude. Being uncharismatic requires have no forceful personality at all.

So I find the opposite to be true. I'm very talkative. Keeping my mouth shut and playing a quiet, withdrawn, unassuming person with no personal magnetism is hard for me.

Which is why I'm a DM most of the time.

[Davrix]

Keep in mind you can have a Char of 20 and still be blunt and rude all day long. Take my conquest paladin as an example. He does not mince words, takes no guff and will flat out tell a noble what he thinks of him. The Char 20 comes into play because he is imposing. He's at the max range for medium and I play him like he radiates a menacing aura of power and grace with every moment he makes. You look at him and you know this isn't some fop pretty boy dragonborn. This is a golden scaled terror of unmatched beauty that will rip your throat out if he catches you hurting innocent people. Now that isn't to say he doesn't have a soft side and spends time helping others how he can but the point stands. Char means a lot of things, it just depends on how you want to define the trait.

[white lancer]

I almost always play high-CHA characters, for two reasons: 1) I like being able to interact with NPCs and the like in a way that's positive for the party, whether through Persuasion or Deception; and 2) the main group I play with is not especially socially inclined, so somebody's got to be the party face.

It helps to explore different approaches to being high-CHA. My Bard is someone who figured out early on that interacting with/manipulating people was a way to get ahead in life, so she learned how...but she holds most people with disdain and relishes the chance to tear into people when there are no consequences.


All three of the mental stats are kind of like that. In my circles, intelligence is the hardest one. Only a small handful of the players I've run across can actually roleplay a smart character well.

I think roleplaying a dumb character is actually pretty difficult, too. Particularly since sometimes your lack of intelligence should get you (and the party) into trouble. Figuring out ways of contributing to the planning/puzzles/whatever while still being realistic to the character feels like a tough balancing act, which is why I can never bring myself to dump INT even though it's usually optimal.

[Sigreid]

Amen to wishing I could be blunt. Do you know how nice it would be in a meeting, just once, to be able to say to a customer "this is literally the worst idea I have ever heard in my life? If I were to do it that way it would waste months of our time, be completely unusable by our customers, and cost millions of dollars to redo."?
I have to work with people all day as well. I find they appreciate blunt if I avoid rude. Because I'm blunt and don't sugar coat or beat around the bush they tend to trust me enough to take what I say at face value.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I think roleplaying a dumb character is actually pretty difficult, too. Particularly since sometimes your lack of intelligence should get you (and the party) into trouble. Figuring out ways of contributing to the planning/puzzles/whatever while still being realistic to the character feels like a tough balancing act, which is why I can never bring myself to dump INT even though it's usually optimal.

In recent years I've been shoehorned into playing the party's intelligence depot because my experience as a DM makes me naturally more accustomed to solving puzzles and strategizing in game terms. A common refrain of mine to the DM is "Okay, I know what that thing is. But does my character know?"

Usually that answer is yes, and I try to describe whatever it is in-character for my party. I become the D&D equivalent of a pokedex.

It can be a lot of fun doing the opposite and acting like a total dummy, insisting that things that I know for a fact will never work are possible. In one game where I played a hyperactive 14-year old with a big imagination, I invented preposterous monsters and monster names to explain relatively mundane happenings. Bloody footprints became signs of the dreaded 'boot monster'.

(a year later, as DM, I then introduced a horrifying eldritch abomination that was in the shape of a giant boot with a mouth)

[Estoma]

I think roleplaying a dumb character is actually pretty difficult, too. Particularly since sometimes your lack of intelligence should get you (and the party) into trouble. Figuring out ways of contributing to the planning/puzzles/whatever while still being realistic to the character feels like a tough balancing act, which is why I can never bring myself to dump INT even though it's usually optimal.

Totally agree here! After dumping intelligence I would never do so again...at least I’d keep it at a 12 or so. Unless you’re really clever about playing a dumb character it can be so hard to contribute in a useful way. Sure you can make bad choices and screw things up for the party but that loses it’s amusement factor eventually.

[Tanarii]

Totally agree here! After dumping intelligence I would never do so again...at least I’d keep it at a 12 or so. Unless you’re really clever about playing a dumb character it can be so hard to contribute in a useful way. Sure you can make bad choices and screw things up for the party but that loses it’s amusement factor eventually.My experience as a DM has been that the vast majority of D&D players think they are smarter than they actually are.

Not saying that applies to you guys. But it certainly applies to me as soon as I stop DMing and starting Playing. Which probably just goes to show I'm not as clever & tactical as I think I am as a DM either. :smallbiggrin: All I know is as a player I have crappy memory for details (Int - recall), jump to bad conclusions (Int - deduction), and poor listening/paying attention skills (Wis). Same as pretty much all players.

[Angelalex242]

I've been playing Paladins most of the time, so I pump that Charisma stat.

In fact, though, I had no social graces for most of my life, and it took 10 years of really working hard on it to get any sort of skill as a salesman going. Clearly I've been putting points into what was once my dump stat. :P

[Estoma]

My experience as a DM has been that the vast majority of D&D players think they are smarter than they actually are.

Not saying that applies to you guys. But it certainly applies to me as soon as I stop DMing and starting Playing. Which probably just goes to show I'm not as clever & tactical as I think I am as a DM either. :smallbiggrin: All I know is as a player I have crappy memory for details (Int - recall), jump to bad conclusions (Int - deduction), and poor listening/paying attention skills (Wis). Same as pretty much all players.

This is probably true, at least for my group :)

[strangebloke]

This is probably true, at least for my group :)
My table these days is mostly research engineers with bachelor's or more from top line universities.

Everyone dumps int.

Go figure.

[Tanarii]

My table these days is mostly research engineers with bachelor's or more from top line universities.I've had plenty of these kinds of "intelligent" players who are anything but as soon as they sit down and start playing an RPG. Put them in a competitive table-top board game and you'll see master strategies. Put them in an RPG and they're stumbling into obvious traps without checking first, failing to use basic tactics line forming a line of battle or using cover, and if there's a big red button marked "DO NOT PUSH - ENDS WORLD" they'll always push it just to see what happens. :smallamused:

[Estoma]

I've had plenty of these kinds of "intelligent" players who are anything but as soon as they sit down and start playing an RPG. Put them in a competitive table-top board game and you'll see master strategies. Put them in an RPG and they're stumbling into obvious traps without checking first, failing to use basic tactics line forming a line of battle or using cover, and if there's a big red button marked "DO NOT PUSH - ENDS WORLD" they'll always push it just to see what happens. :smallamused:

Sounds about right :)

I’ve got a masters degree and last sesh my character was caught by a tree, then got pinned to the ceiling in a tower cause I’m the kind of player who always walks in without thinking, oops! I mean, there’s something appealing about making dumb decisions where the consequences aren’t going to haunt you for the rest of your life, hehe!

[mephnick]

My experience as a DM person has been that the vast majority of D&D players people think they are smarter than they actually are.

Fixed..especially people on geeky internet forums. :smallwink:

[Laserlight]

if there's a big red button marked "DO NOT PUSH - ENDS WORLD" they'll always push it just to see what happens.

In my experience they'll fight each other for the chance to be the one who pushes is.

[Estoma]

In my experience they'll fight each other for the chance to be the one who pushes is.

You’re not wrong there!

[Sigreid]

You’re not wrong there!

Present me with that button in real life on any given day and there's a 50% chance I'm pushing it...minimum.

[Dudewithknives]

My table these days is mostly research engineers with bachelor's or more from top line universities.

Everyone dumps int.

Go figure.

I am in the same situation sort of.

Our group has 3 people whose entire job is talking to groups of people, a writer and an IT specialist and software writer.

Last campaign, 4 people with an 8 charisma, one with a 20.

[Estoma]

Present me with that button in real life on any given day and there's a 50% chance I'm pushing it...minimum.

I mean, after a long day at work....

Back to the original post, the character with the highest charisma is often a good choice for the leader or voice (at least they’ll have a better shot with the NPCs). If you’re not into playing this sort of role, a character with lower charisma is definitely going to let you take more of a backseat in interactions if you want to.

Saying that, bad persuasion rolls are generally pretty entertaining :)

[Estoma]

I am in the same situation sort of.

Our group has 3 people whose entire job is talking to groups of people, a writer and an IT specialist and software writer.

Last campaign, 4 people with an 8 charisma, one with a 20.

So long as there’s someone who can capably flirt with the barkeep :)

[Dudewithknives]

So long as there’s someone who can capably flirt with the barkeep :)

We were running the Out of the Abyss campaign, I was not flirting with anyone, I was the only charisma guy.

[Pex]

All three of the mental stats are kind of like that. In my circles, intelligence is the hardest one. Only a small handful of the players I've run across can actually roleplay a smart character well.

Though it seems there's also some wish fulfillment going on in who chooses high mental stats. The least smart person in our group has played high intelligence characters for nearly half of all their games, the least charming person keeps trying to play high charisma, and wisdom has practically no correlation whatsoever. I'd say on the whole, my players are fairly unwise in-game.

To play a high intelligent character I allow myself more metagame than normal. When facing a not rare creature I don't pretend to not know what it is on its first appearance in the game. I'll volunteer more team tactics based on knowledge of class abilities. If another character needs help in character on some conundrum I'll help if asked or implicitly welcomed.

When playing a non-smart character I hold back except for my character's expertise. I pretend not to know creatures. I don't solve conundrums. However, such as when playing a not so smart paladin, when it's combat I'm still the warrior extraordinaire complete with tactics. I'm trained to fight evil, so I know how to do that very well. He has high charisma so he knows the words to say. I'll roleplay a simpleton but never at the expense of party competence.

[Estoma]

To play a high intelligent character I allow myself more metagame than normal. When facing a not rare creature I don't pretend to not know what it is on its first appearance in the game. I'll volunteer more team tactics based on knowledge of class abilities. If another character needs help in character on some conundrum I'll help if asked or implicitly welcomed.

When playing a non-smart character I hold back except for my character's expertise. I pretend not to know creatures. I don't solve conundrums. However, such as when playing a not so smart paladin, when it's combat I'm still the warrior extraordinaire complete with tactics. I'm trained to fight evil, so I know how to do that very well. He has high charisma so he knows the words to say. I'll roleplay a simpleton but never at the expense of party competence.

That’s fair. It’s a pain biting your tongue though when you want to contribute a brilliant (or so you think) plan!

[Luccan]

I think roleplaying a dumb character is actually pretty difficult, too. Particularly since sometimes your lack of intelligence should get you (and the party) into trouble. Figuring out ways of contributing to the planning/puzzles/whatever while still being realistic to the character feels like a tough balancing act, which is why I can never bring myself to dump INT even though it's usually optimal.

Agreed. I had a brief character with an Int around 7 (low wis too). I wanted to contribute, but I couldnt justify things I wanted to suggest in-character.

[Lord Vukodlak]

To quote That 70's Show.
"Well, the words are wrong, but they sound so good coming out of his mouth."

For full context of the quote

FEZ: Yeah. Rhonda won't let me get past second base, and I really want to explore further.

ERIC: Mmm. Gosh. Well, I don't know I think if you're patient, and you're respectful when Rhonda's ready, she'll, uh- she'll wave you over.

FEZ: Well, thank you, Eric. That is very gentlemanly advice.

ERIC: Gentlemanly? Well, uh, guilty as charged, I guess. Hey Casey, uh, what do you think?

CASEY: Well, sometimes a seasoned lady like Rhonda she's gotten used to the usual order of things. So, I think the next time you're fooling around just, uh, skip second and go right to third.

ERIC: What?!

FEZ: It's genius! No wonder you never get any.

DONNA: Yeah, with Rhonda, you know, that just might work.

ERIC: W-Wait, you like that?

DONNA: Well, the words are wrong, but they sound so good coming out of his mouth.

CASEY: I got a way about me.


The true test of Charisma is not saying the right thing, its saying the wrong thing but people think its right anyway.

In the above example the true persuasion check is to impress Donna by who gives Fez the best advice. Eric says the thing he knows Donna would like to hear, while Casey is simply more charming.(within universe anyway). So Casey wins because he's more charming and more persuasive.

So to play a charisma character you just have to say something plausible so long as you don't think about it for two seconds and then let the dice decide the rest. Now coming up with a good thing to say certainly helps.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I have two active characters (well one's on hold until the other ones campaign is over), and extremely high Charisma (20) Glamour Bard and a very low charisma (6) Moon Druid.

What does it say about me that my extremely low charisma mood druid is way easier to play in social situations?


He's direct, non-subtle, and has no social graces. He doesn't really worry about offending people, because he hasn't been around enough people to ever realize that he's doing it. There have been several encounters where one player has said "Why aren't you stopping him" and the other responded "because I find it entertaining and he's actually getting stuff done." Although once a PC did grab mine around the mouth and physically pull mine out of a room :smallbiggrin:

A good DM will not make a player actually jump 10 feet for their Rogue to cross a chasm, physically cast counterspell quick or fireball for their Wizard to, or sing a song for their Bard to give a good performamce.

So to play a high Charisma character you should not have to rewrite Shakesphere's Mark Antony speach three times a session.

A good DM will ask what you are trying to say in general and have u roll a dice and ad your deception modifier or whatever.

Maybe before the next session tell the DM you don't want to have to become your PC just play him or her.

Edit:oops, I was too blunt. As I'm not sure if I persuaded anyone, obviously my Charisma is either low or borders on psychotic.

[Sigreid]

Just a thought. Letting the shy person play the charisma character and rely on a statement of intent and the dice has sometimes led to them being more confident and less shy at the table. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes.

[1Pirate]

Play whatever way is the most fun for you. Your score determines more how other people interpret it rather than how you act(though you can certainly act the low Cha stereotype if you want).

Is your character loud and talks without a filter?

Charisma 20: People tend to think they’re a confident, tell-it-like-it-is person.

Charisma 6: People tend to think they’re an arrogant jerk trying to tear down other people to compensate for their own short comings.

Is your character shy and tends to stutter when they get nervous?

Charisma 20: People tend to think they’re nice and endearing.

Charisma 6: People tend to think they’re pathetic and weak.