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Tyger
2007-08-27, 07:52 AM
Hey there, hoping you folks can offer a bit of advice on this build.

New character being added into an existing campaign after the death of my previous character. A few notes on houserules is probably important:

1) Shields offer double their normal AC. Yup, DM likes shields.
2) Crusaders use the Swordsage recovery mechanism rather then their divine inspiration one.
3) Only one PrC can be taken, until you complete all the levels it offers. Then and only then could you take another PrC. I.e. no one level dips.
4) RKV class has been adapted to the homebrewed world, thus no requirement for worship of WeeJas.

Here's what I was thinking:

Human Cleric 1 / Crusader 4 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 3

Stats: (are the actual rolled stats and include the level ups at 4 and 8)
STR 16
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 10

Domains: Time and Trickery

Feats:
Improved Initiative (from the Time Domain)
Extra Turning (to give a bit more oomph to the Divine abilities of the RKV)
Power Attack (because its... well... power attack)
Combat Expertise (a lot of the maneuvers chosen mean the bad guys will be targetting me more often)
ONE MORE FEAT... here's where I need help.

The character is going to be heavily into the darker side of the RKV, he's an assassin (in essence) for the church. Not really interested in playing a trip monkey using the Spiked chain and even if I wanted to, couldn't do it well with these stats! Casting is always going to be secondary. He's a warrior first and foremost, his priestly casting is just a bonus.

I'm not married to any of those feats (other than the Imp Init) so any suggestions are very welcome. Books available is pretty much anything, pending DM approval. The ultimate build will probably be Crusader 9 / Cleric 1 / RKV 10.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Darrin
2007-08-27, 08:20 AM
Feats:
Improved Initiative (from the Time Domain)
Extra Turning (to give a bit more oomph to the Divine abilities of the RKV)
Power Attack (because its... well... power attack)
Combat Expertise (a lot of the maneuvers chosen mean the bad guys will be targetting me more often)
ONE MORE FEAT... here's where I need help.


If you're using the SwordSage recovery mechanic, then you'll want to pick up Adaptive Style ASAP. Otherwise you run the risk of running out of maneuvers in a long encounter.

Consider Martial Study/Martial Stance, particularly if you're not getting new maneuvers at an optimal Initiator Level. If you're looking for stealthy assassin-type stuff, picking up a Shadow Hand maneuver like Cloak of Deception would be nice, followed by Assassin's Stance.

You don't have the Dex for any Thicket of Blades/Combat Reflexes/reach weapon tomfoolery... you might want to consider finishing off Power Attack with Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper. There are several White Raven maneuvers that work very well with charges (particularly the one that adds your initiator level to damage).

Tyger
2007-08-27, 08:25 AM
If you're using the SwordSage recovery mechanic, then you'll want to pick up Adaptive Style ASAP. Otherwise you run the risk of running out of maneuvers in a long encounter.

Consider Martial Study/Martial Stance, particularly if you're not getting new maneuvers at an optimal Initiator Level. If you're looking for stealthy assassin-type stuff, picking up a Shadow Hand maneuver like Cloak of Deception would be nice, followed by Assassin's Stance.

You don't have the Dex for any Thicket of Blades/Combat Reflexes/reach weapon tomfoolery... you might want to consider finishing off Power Attack with Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper. There are several White Raven maneuvers that work very well with charges (particularly the one that adds your initiator level to damage).

Yeah, I looked into Adaptive Style, but didn't even bother broaching the feat with teh DM, as he is already adamantly opposed to any situation that extends the usages of maneuvers, or allows instantaneous recovery... he really hated the Warblade recovery mechanic (and to be honest, I had to agree on that one... makes zero sense!). So I really doubt he'd go for the Adaptive Style feat.

And on top of that, I'll have 7 turn uses, so I can recover maneuvers as a Swift action by burning one of those.

The Improved Bull's Rush / Shocktrooper angle wasn't one I had thought of. And you're right, there are some pretty sweet charging related feats. Great idea! Thanks. Now, to do some more reading on that angle.

MeklorIlavator
2007-08-27, 08:44 AM
Personally, if you want to control the battlefield and save the squishes, I would get Stand still and combat reflexes( you would have to switch Int and Dex). Stand still would work without combat reflexes, just not as well. If you get it, make sure you have reach. I would get a Guisarme, so that it helps with trips.


Also, is your DM compensating for the Crusaders low number of maneuvers? Because otherwise the class really bites. I mean, with only 6 maneuvers per encounter, its going to be pretty tough. Do you know why he's done the switch?

Tyger
2007-08-27, 09:05 AM
Personally, if you want to control the battlefield and save the squishes, I would get Stand still and combat reflexes( you would have to switch Int and Dex). Stand still would work without combat reflexes, just not as well. If you get it, make sure you have reach. I would get a Guisarme, so that it helps with trips.


Also, is your DM compensating for the Crusaders low number of maneuvers? Because otherwise the class really bites. I mean, with only 6 maneuvers per encounter, its going to be pretty tough. Do you know why he's done the switch?

Except, in an odd turn of events, we don't really have any squishies any more. Party is a monk/psychic warrior, TWFing ranger, war cleric, knight (cohort) and a scout. Our squishiest character now is the Scout, who is an archer, and I can't possibly keep up with him, so no worries about protecting the feeble ones.

As for the crusader maneuvers, its the same number known and one less readied... yeah, I know - with my level 4 in Crusader, its a whoping 4 maneuvers readied per enounter. Its a very low powered campaign though, and this character, even with the minor nerfs, will probably still be the number one damage dealer and tank.

Person_Man
2007-08-27, 09:58 AM
White Raven Tactics + Extra Turning + RKV abilities: Delay your action until the end of the round, and then burn Turn Undead uses to give everyone on your team two turns that round. Even if you just do it for the spellcasters, you've essentially won combat.

Combat Focus + Combat Vigor + Combat Stability: PHBII: Fast Healing 4 and +8 to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip attempts made against you. Now you're even more of a defensive tank.

Darkstalker: Lords of Madness: When you Hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. Now you can scout or sneak up on anyone without True Seeing. Cast Invisibility on yourself for an extra +20 to Hide.

Tyger
2007-08-27, 10:32 AM
White Raven Tactics + Extra Turning + RKV abilities: Delay your action until the end of the round, and then burn Turn Undead uses to give everyone on your team two turns that round. Even if you just do it for the spellcasters, you've essentially won combat.

Combat Focus + Combat Vigor + Combat Stability: PHBII: Fast Healing 4 and +8 to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip attempts made against you. Now you're even more of a defensive tank.

Darkstalker: Lords of Madness: When you Hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. Now you can scout or sneak up on anyone without True Seeing. Cast Invisibility on yourself for an extra +20 to Hide.

Thanks Person_Man, those are all really good ideas. Is the first maneuver possible though? Divine Impetus doesn't specify whether you can spend multiple turn attempts in the same round... if you can, then yes, that's a pretty friggin nice tactic. If not though (which was my understanding) its still handy for giving the caster (if we had one) another turn. :)

Those Combat Focus feats look better and better all the time too. Especially because I could have 3 at level 12... get rid of Combat Expertise for Focus, take Stability for my one left and take Vigour as my 12th level... Interesting. Great suggestion Person_Man. I love it.