Spells similar to Lesser Geas for Clerics?

[RoboEmperor]

1. Has to be 4th level or lower.
2. Clerics must have access to it. Access via domains is fine. Access via non-permanent and/or expensive items is not.
3. Must be able to force creatures to do your bidding for an extended period of time.

Charm Monster qualifies, but I'm fishing for other options as +5 to their saving throw and an additional charisma check is very vexing. Not to mention renewing the spell is very dangerous.

[gogogome]

Does the target have Spellcraft? If not then renewing the charm monster has no risk.

"Let me heal your wounds friend", he voluntarily loses the save because even cure wounds have will saves, then BAM he is re-charmed, at which point you can retry the charisma check again if you failed it, and the trickery you performed does not turn him hostile because it was an action you took before the new charm set in place.

Buff spells also have will saves, so "Let me buff you my friend" also works, but healing should be sufficienct, since what kind of friend would refuse a heal spell from his closest friend who is just being overprotective even if he is at full hp?

[Coidzor]

Pathfinder has Conditional Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/conditional-curse/), which is sort of like Lesser Geas except coming at it from the other direction. So it's "Bad stuff is happening, do X and it'll stop" as opposed to "Do X, or bad stuff will happen."

[ShurikVch]

Lesser Geas is a 3rd-level spell in Seduction domain (Dragon #312)

[Hecuba]

If your dealing with humanoids, the domination donation gets you Dominate Person at 4 instead of 5.

Other than that, charm monster is the best I know of.

[RoboEmperor]

Does the target have Spellcraft? If not then renewing the charm monster has no risk.

"Let me heal your wounds friend", he voluntarily loses the save because even cure wounds have will saves, then BAM he is re-charmed, at which point you can retry the charisma check again if you failed it, and the trickery you performed does not turn him hostile because it was an action you took before the new charm set in place.

Buff spells also have will saves, so "Let me buff you my friend" also works, but healing should be sufficienct, since what kind of friend would refuse a heal spell from his closest friend who is just being overprotective even if he is at full hp?

Target does not have spellcraft, so nice thinking. Passing the charisma check however still bothers me, but I guess charm monster is the best that's available.


Pathfinder has Conditional Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/conditional-curse/), which is sort of like Lesser Geas except coming at it from the other direction. So it's "Bad stuff is happening, do X and it'll stop" as opposed to "Do X, or bad stuff will happen."

Interesting but my DM doesn't like pathfinder that much.


Lesser Geas is a 3rd-level spell in Seduction domain (Dragon #312)

My DM hates dragon mag with a passion XD. But nice find! I'll look around to see if that domain got reprinted somewhere.


If your dealing with humanoids, the domination donation gets you Dominate Person at 4 instead of 5.

Other than that, charm monster is the best I know of.

Yeah I'm dealing with non-humanoids.

[Hecuba]

Target does not have spellcraft, so nice thinking. Passing the charisma check however still bothers me, but I guess charm monster is the best that's available.

You might see if the "equivelent curse you design" for bestow curse qualifies. If not, you can always just use it three times to put their WIS, CHA, and saves/ability checks in the trash can. That should make the Charming safer.

[Matrota]

Dominate Person is a 4th level Domination domain spell, and it lasts days/level. That's probably your best bet.

EDIT: Lesser Geas is also a 3rd level Seduction domain spell, this domain is found in Dragon Magazine #312 p. 50.

[Anthrowhale]

This sounds useless to you since it's humanoids-only, but Necrotic Domination is a 4th level spell.

[Thurbane]

The Initiate of Lendys feat also adds Lesser Geas to your Cleric spell list.

Law Inviolate adds Suggestion.

[RoboEmperor]

The Initiate of Lendys feat also adds Lesser Geas to your Cleric spell list.

Everything is close but no cigar...

I am playing a cleric so I can grab that feat, and I think I can grab dragonblooded, but my cleric does not worship.

Argh, close but no cigar!

[Matrota]

but my cleric does not worship.

Afaik you can play a godless cleric, and in doing so you can choose your own domains. If so, you could choose the seduction domain as mentioned above.

[RoboEmperor]

Afaik you can play a godless cleric, and in doing so you can choose your own domains. If so, you could choose the seduction domain as mentioned above.

I am a godless cleric but seduction domain is freaking Dragon Magazine, and it's not reprinted elsewhere. So unfortunately it is not an option. Lesser Geas at level 5 would truly make me ecstatic but... damn it! Why didn't SpC reprinted it?

[Hecuba]

The Initiate of Lendys feat also adds Lesser Geas to your Cleric spell list.

Huh, I looked through the setting books for relevant initiate feats, but I didn't find any.
Since Dragonblooded is mentioned, I'm assuming this is either DrM or RotD - yes? I'll need to reread them - I didn't remember initiate feats there.

[Thurbane]

Huh, I looked through the setting books for relevant initiate feats, but I didn't find any.
Since Dragonblooded is mentioned, I'm assuming this is either DrM or RotD - yes? I'll need to reread them - I didn't remember initiate feats there.

Dragon Magic, page 21.

Adds Gather Information and Sense Motive to your Cleric skill list; +1 Competence bonus on these skills; and adds Detect Thoughts, Soul of Order, Lesser Geas, Hold Monster and Justice of the Wyrm King to your spell list.

[karinrin55]

It may be cheesy, if you get the Magic domain you can use magic items (such as scrolls and wands) as a wizard of half your level.
Just get access to the Magic domain (by worshiping Boccob, Wee Jas or Vecna or worshiping none and just choosing it) and you could just cast it out of a scroll or wand.

[RoboEmperor]

It may be cheesy, if you get the Magic domain you can use magic items (such as scrolls and wands) as a wizard of half your level.
Just get access to the Magic domain (by worshiping Boccob, Wee Jas or Vecna or worshiping none and just choosing it) and you could just cast it out of a scroll or wand.

This violates condition 2. Use of expensive non-permanent magic items.

I'm already using magic items via divine insight boosted UMD.

[Crake]

Well, planar ally qualifies to a degree. It's not targeted, but it gets creatures to do as you ask for a period of time?

What are you trying to achieve with the spell? To get a creature that serves you? Or to achieve a specific task? Because keep in mind lesser geas, and it's big brother geas/quest, actually have a permanent duration when the assigned task is not open ended. If you told the creature to count every coin in a dragon's hoard, even if it took 20 years, it would have to pursue that task, at the exclusion of all others (except tasks necessary for survival) until completion.

[ShurikVch]

This violates condition 2. Use of expensive non-permanent magic items.

I'm already using magic items via divine insight boosted UMD.How about the Eternal Wand of Lesser Geas?

[RoboEmperor]

Well, planar ally qualifies to a degree. It's not targeted, but it gets creatures to do as you ask for a period of time?

What are you trying to achieve with the spell? To get a creature that serves you? Or to achieve a specific task? Because keep in mind lesser geas, and it's big brother geas/quest, actually have a permanent duration when the assigned task is not open ended. If you told the creature to count every coin in a dragon's hoard, even if it took 20 years, it would have to pursue that task, at the exclusion of all others (except tasks necessary for survival) until completion.

My goal is to enslave a Ravid as early as I can.

Usually this means waiting until level 9, casting lesser planar binding, and passing the charisma check with surge of fortune, but... getting to level 9 takes too long.

Seeing how my builds are always 100% wealth INDEPENDENT, I figured why not throw all my wealth at enslaving a ravid earlier?

NPC Spellcaster casting Lesser Planar Binding for like 450gp a try solves that, but since I am unable to do a charisma check because I did not cast the spell, and since I don't want to pay an NPC spellcaster every 9 days for another ravid, I figured enslaving the ravid with enchantment spells was the best option, because if you don't do the charisma check, planar binding never ends. It is instantaneous duration.

If the NPC Spellcaster is unavailable because I can't reach a Large City, then scrolls will have to do, which are more than twice the price.

So... my Nar Demonbinder build has no problem because wizards have lesser geas at level 7, but my Cleric build however... which is why I posted this thread.

Planar Ally is an awful spell. You have 0 control over what creature you get. In addition you have to pay XP every time you cast it so if the DM sends you an undesirable creature you are screwed. I have dissected this spell to the nine hells and back and there really is absolutely no way you can gain any form of control over the creature you get.


How about the Eternal Wand of Lesser Geas?

That is my current solution however the hefty 10,900gp makes the Eternal Wand unavailable until I reach a small city, and there's always the fact that the DM can just say "That item doesn't exist." Of course demographics say that I can't get my hands on a 5th level spellcaster NPC until I reach a LARGE city, but I can get around that by using scrolls. Scrolls of Lesser Geas however are far too expensive to maintain indefinitely so I really need an Eternal Wand.

I dunno, I was just fishing around to see if there was a better option. My wizard only needs the scrolls of lesser planar binding, and my cleric needs the 10,900gp wand in addition to the scrolls so I was wondering if I could eliminate the 10,900gp item.

[Anthrowhale]

If you are an LA+0 outsider then at ECL 3 you can pay for a casting of Polymorph Any Object [Formian Taskmaster] with permanent duration and then take the feat Assume Supernatural Ability[Dominate Monster].

[RoboEmperor]

If you are an LA+0 outsider then at ECL 3 you can pay for a casting of Polymorph Any Object [Formian Taskmaster] with permanent duration and then take the feat Assume Supernatural Ability[Dominate Monster].

Very interesting.... very very interesting... I've been avoiding savage species because it's 3.0 and a lot of DMs hate it but my current DM doesn't... hehehe.

Forget the taskmaster I can just directly become a ravid myself and perpetually animate animated objects myself.

I'm a try to design an entire character around this feat! Thanks!

edit: Goddamn it. I forgot PaO capsizes your intelligence. And Polymorph can't be persisted @_@. Oh well was fun while it lasted.

[Anthrowhale]

Very interesting.... very very interesting... I've been avoiding savage species because it's 3.0 and a lot of DMs hate it but my current DM doesn't... hehehe.

Forget the taskmaster I can just directly become a ravid myself and perpetually animate animated objects myself.

I'm a try to design an entire character around this feat! Thanks!

edit: Goddamn it. I forgot PaO capsizes your intelligence. And Polymorph can't be persisted @_@. Oh well was fun while it lasted.

Intelligence is not a super necessary stat for a Cleric.

Polymorph can be persisted via DMM[ocular spell] followed by DMM[Persistent Spell]. You can use two DMM's since Ocular spells are cast twice --- once in charging the eyes and once in discharging them.

[RoboEmperor]

Intelligence is not a super necessary stat for a Cleric.

Polymorph can be persisted via DMM[ocular spell] followed by DMM[Persistent Spell]. You can use two DMM's since Ocular spells are cast twice --- once in charging the eyes and once in discharging them.

I know about the ocular spell trick but, this is where my DM draws the line v.s. high op and TO ^_^. I'll think about it.

[Anthrowhale]

I know about the ocular spell trick but, this is where my DM draws the line v.s. high op and TO ^_^. I'll think about it.

There are many other ways to get around +2 metamagic. Easy Metamagic, + Metamagic School Focus or Practical Metamagic + Versatile Spellcaster + Spontaneous Cleric,

[RoboEmperor]

There are many other ways to get around +2 metamagic. Easy Metamagic, + Metamagic School Focus or Practical Metamagic + Versatile Spellcaster + Spontaneous Cleric,

He views changing the duration of a spell with ocular spell so it qualifies for Persist spell as the TO trick, not stacking several DMMs (not sure if that's legal but like you said there are other ways to get around the +2 metamagic)

edit:change in range not duration. my bad XD

[Anthrowhale]

He views changing the duration of a spell with ocular spell so it qualifies for Persist spell as the TO trick, not stacking several DMMs (not sure if that's legal but like you said there are other ways to get around the +2 metamagic)

You probably mean the change in range?

Alter Self plausibly works as a "similar effect" [to polymorph] for the purpose of Assume Supernatural Ability[Ravid], and it can be persisted directly.

[RoboEmperor]

You probably mean the change in range?

Alter Self plausibly works as a "similar effect" [to polymorph] for the purpose of Assume Supernatural Ability[Ravid], and it can be persisted directly.

You're totally right! Wow! LOL. That's amazing. I probably have to go wizard with a cleric dip for DMM, but still! wow!

hehehehe, this is gonna be fun~~~

Thanks man!