[3.5] how to optimize leadership

[Amdy_vill]

what would be the optimal leadership build. are there any classes the work well this the leadership feat.

[Cj304]

what would be the optimal leadership build. are there any classes the work well this the leadership feat.

The main classes that work best with Leadership would be Bard and Marshal, which have support abilities that progress with their levels and whose main Ability will be CHA, your standard Leadership Ability Score.

Cleric isn't a bad class to dip into if you have the WIS for it alongside CHA, they can get some pretty nice AOE buff spells.

There are multiple Prestige Classes that have more Teamwork and party buff abilities, but honestly your best bet would be a Bard/Marshal mix with Words of Power (Feat) and a Badge of Valor and other Items buffing their Inspire abilities.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Heroes of battle has the legendary tactician and The Dragonlance Campaign Setting has the legendary leader.

(or was it the other way around...)

I think the crimson corsair and dread pirate also give leadership buffs. One's in Stormwrack and the other in Complete Adventurer, IIRC.

There's also a legendary captain class... somewhere...

[DeTess]

.
There's also a legendary captain class... somewhere...

Legendary captain is also in Stormwrack

[AvatarVecna]

what would be the optimal leadership build. are there any classes the work well this the leadership feat.

Be a thrallherd. Thrallherd is a version of Leadership that levels better and is based in mind control rather than people's faith in you as a leader, so not only can you potentially attract the kind of folks you want working for you, you can kill them off as you please and nothing will come of it. Next, take Undead Leadership for your HD 6 feat. It's basically Leadership, but with a bonus for attracting undead and a penalty for attracting anything else. What really matters to you is that Thrallherd technically isn't forbidden from taking Undead Leadership the way they are from taking regular Leadership; most DMs would throw this nonsense right out if you brought it to the table, but if your DM sticks to RAW, then who cares? If your Cha is low enough that you care about the penalty for living followers, have your ECL 3+ followers be Necropolitans, and your ECL 1/2 followers be bog-standard skeletons and zombies. Make sure to take Dragon Cohort for your HD 9 feat (Half-Dragon Dragonwrought kobold should count as a true dragon one way or another, and gets the template for free because of the feat). For HD 12, take Improved Cohort (especially if it can apply to Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort), and for HD 15 take Extra Followers (probably can't apply to Thrallherd, but ah well). Not sure what to do for HD 18 (Might Makes Right if you have a Str bonus and still need more points for your Undead Leadership score?), but at that point you'll be drowning in minions and it won't really matter.

Something interesting you'll find about psicrystals is that, unlike familiars, they get actual Hit Dice based on their Master's HD. What this means, among other things, is that Psicrystals get attribute bumps and feats, just like everything else that gets HD. Now sure, your psicrystal's powers are based on your psion/wilder levels, but we only really care about the HD for these purposes, since that's what gets us the feats and attribute bumps.

Anyway, your Psicrystal also doesn't have to perfectly share your alignment and mindset - in fact, by definition it's almost always going to exemplify a particular part of your personality, and is thus almost guaranteed to be quite different. Have yours be something appropriate to be NG Exalted (I like Friendly for the Diplomacy boost), and give them Sacred Vow + Vow Of Poverty (cheap, I know). You'll have to put up with your psicrystal nagging you to be more charitable, but since it doesn't get a cut of the loot in the first place, you don't actually lose anything, making this use of VoP actually fairly nice for you. So that deals with its lvl 1 and 3 feats, and means that when your Psicrystal has 6 HD (and you should be StP Erudite 5/Psionic Mindbender 1), it can pick up Leadership with a super Cha 11 (base 10 + HD 1). However, at lvl 7, you'll get a +2 from the vow, and then at lvl 8 you get another HD bump, putting your total at 14; your psicrystal can also have a pretty good reputation at this point (sure, its owner is a mind-controlling cult leader, but the sheep don't need to know that; give the public the impression that everybody comes to you willingly - hell, most of them do - and they'll assume they all came willingly, even if some of them didn't), so that will boost its Leadership score as well.

For HD 9 feat, take Undead Leadership. :smalltongue: For HD 12, take Dragon Cohort (Half-Dragon Dragonwrought kobold should count as a true dragon one way or another, and gets the template for free because of the feat). For HD 15/18, have your psicrystal take Improved Cohort and Extra Followers, especially if they apply to all your previous applicable feats. You'll get another +2 to Cha at levels 11, 15, and 19, with another +1 at levels 12, 16, and 20.

Now, maybe you're looking at this set-up, and you're thinking "Thrallherd, Leadership, and Undead Leadership at lvl 7 is great and all, but by level 12, I've got Thrallherd, Leadership, two Undead Leadership, and two Dragon cohorts; is triple followers/believers and sextuple cohorts/thralls good enough?" If that's the question that you're asking yourself (because really, who could be content with such a small following), then I have good news! Your non-dragon cohorts/thralls can themselves become thrallherds just like you! Including all the crap I just listed with Psicrystals and Dragon Cohorts. Nested thrallherds will get you some ridiculous returns! Of course, you don't do this for the dragon cohorts because quite frankly they have access to much better cheese.

Triple Evolved Undead/Necropolitan/Venerable/Magic-Blooded/Unseelie Fey/Grey Elf
StP Erudite 5/Psionic Mindbender 1/Thrallherd 10/StP Erudite +4
Stats (lvl 3, 32 pb): 10/12/-/23/10/24
Stats (lvl 20): 10/12/-/28/10/24

Feats:

HD 3: Inquisitor
HD 6: Undead Leadership
HD 9: Dragon Cohort
HD 12: Improved Cohort
HD 15: Extra Followers
HD 18: Mindsight



Venerable/Half-Dragon/Magic-Blooded/Unseelie Fey/Arctic Kobold
StP Erudite 20
Stats (lvl 1, 32 pb): 20/16/10/16/8/27
Stats (lvl 18): 20/16/10/16/8/32

Feats:

HD 1: Dragonwrought
Flaw (Feeble): Great Charisma
Flaw (Slow): Great Charisma
HD 3: Great Charisma
HD 6: Leadership
HD 9: Extra Followers
HD 12: Epic Leadership
HD 15: Might Makes Right
HD 18: Undead Leadership



Psicrystal

Feats:

HD 1: Sacred Vow
HD 3: Vow Of Poverty
HD 6: Leadership
HD 9: Undead Leadership
HD 12: Dragon Cohort
HD 15: Improved Cohort
HD 18: Extra Followers



You are the head of the cult, at lvl 20. Here are your underlings by level:



Level
Thrallherd
Psicrystal
Kobold


20

1



19
4
6
2


18
21
31
10


17
112
164
52


16
593
869
276


15
3088
4550
1462


14
16145
23783
7638


13
33752
49897
16145


12
122708
180243
57535


11
361355
533960
172605


10
779376
959619
180243


9
2381256
2742611
361355


8
5260113
6039489
779376


7
13487946
15869202
2381256


6
25566924
25566924




Additionally, you have a wide array of cohorts, followers, and believers that don't have to be thrallherds, and can be whatever you want them to be:



Lvl
C
F/B


9

680


8

4284


7

55466


6

3013634


5
31738404
21555995


4
51133848
89850567


3

188024756


2

333837347


1

4058314093




All in all, including you, your cult at lvl 20 is 4881471772 members strong!