UA Mystic Ethereal Weapon Question

[igor140]

The description here says,


Ethereal Weapon (1psi). As a bonus action, you temporarily transform one weapon you’re holding or your unarmed strike into pure psionic energy. The next attack you make with it before the end of your turn ignores the target’s armor, requiring no attack roll. Instead, the target makes a Dexterity saving throw against this discipline. On a failed save, the target takes the attack’s normal damage and suffers its additional
effects. On a successful save, the target takes half damage from the attack but suffers no additional effects that would normally be imposed on a hit.

So, first off, what does "...saving throw against this discipline" mean? I'm guessing that means the standard mystic INT-based DC?

Next, and more confusing, what does "suffers its additional effects" mean? Does that mean combining Ethereal Weapon with Lethal Strike, or something? So if I apply Ethereal Weapon (1 psi) and Lethal Strike (6 psi) to my next shortsword strike, the target rolls a DEX save. If the roll fails, the target takes the shortsword damage, DEX modifier damage, and the Lethal Strike damage. If the roll succeeds, the target takes half the swordsword strike, half the DEX modifier damage, but none of the Lethal Strike damage... Is that about right? Or are there other "additional effects" to this ability that I'm missing?

[Finlam]

The description here says,


So, first off, what does "...saving throw against this discipline" mean? I'm guessing that means the standard mystic INT-based DC?

Correct. 8+INT+PROF


Next, and more confusing, what does "suffers its additional effects" mean? Does that mean combining Ethereal Weapon with Lethal Strike, or something? So if I apply Ethereal Weapon (1 psi) and Lethal Strike (6 psi) to my next shortsword strike, the target rolls a DEX save. If the roll fails, the target takes the shortsword damage, DEX modifier damage, and the Lethal Strike damage. If the roll succeeds, the target takes half the swordsword strike, half the DEX modifier damage, but none of the Lethal Strike damage... Is that about right? Or are there other "additional effects" to this ability that I'm missing?
That is also correct.

Smiting effects, damage buffs, etc... will not be applied if the target succeed on the saving throw. It's a good way to auto-hit anything that is Paralyzed, Petrified, Stunned, or Unconscious as each of these conditions makes a creature auto-fail Dex saves. Of course, you're generally giving up advantage and therefore a really good chance at a crit in exchange for a guaranteed hit, so your mileage may vary.

[Sinon]

If the roll fails, the target takes the shortsword damage, DEX modifier damage, and the Lethal Strike damage. If the roll succeeds, the target takes half the swordsword strike, half the DEX modifier damage, but none of the Lethal Strike damage... Is that about right? Or are there other "additional effects" to this ability that I'm missing?
Agreeing with what Subproject54 said in response to your question, but I wanted to warn you that Lethal Strike and Ethereal Strike are both bonus actions. That makes using them together, complicated.

[igor140]

Hmm... I had interpreted Psychic Weapon to mean that both could be done in the same turn, because both are "aspects" of the same ability; it takes one bonus action to activate Psychic Weapon, but the manifestation of that activation can take multiple aspects. The precedent for this is in Bestial Form, where you can take on multiple animal attributes so long as you pay the total sum of psi points. Am I mistaken in my reading of this?

Because if that is not the case, Ethereal Weapon is absolutely horrendous until lvl 6, at which point it gets promoted to just "a waste of psi points".

[Sinon]

Hmm... I had interpreted Psychic Weapon to mean that both could be done in the same turn, because both are "aspects" of the same ability; it takes one bonus action to activate Psychic Weapon, but the manifestation of that activation can take multiple aspects. The precedent for this is in Bestial Form, where you can take on multiple animal attributes so long as you pay the total sum of psi points. Am I mistaken in my reading of this?I think you are.
1) Bestial Form works differently because it specifically says it works differently.
2) If your interpretation were correct, it would also presumably apply to other actions, allowing for some fairly insane results.


Because if that is not the case, Ethereal Weapon is absolutely horrendous until lvl 6, at which point it gets promoted to just "a waste of psi points".Well, it only costs one point and it lets you switch from attacking AC to what is presumably an easier hit. (I mean, you're going to use on a big, dumb heavily armored guy, not a zippy little fellow.)
And, you still get half damage on a miss?
If I were making a melee mystic, I would consider it.

Oh, and maybe I'm off base, but you mentioned sixth level - you know you don't have to be focused on a discipline to use it? You can be focused on say, Iron Durability and still use any of Psionic Weapon's options.

[igor140]

Thank you for the clarification, even if it isn't the answer I wanted : )

And I am aware that I can use and focus on disciplines separately, but I appreciate you following up on it anyway.

I'm a bit confused about some of the design aspects of the Mystic. I realize it's still in beta, but that just means we're SUPPOSED to question it, right?

So, this Psionic Weapon Focus: I can't think of a scenario where this is worth the effort. Obviously, the purpose of this is against melee-resistant enemies. But a) those are somewhat rare before lvl six, and b) +1 weapons are fairly common around lvl six, rendering this focus entirely useless.

In general, the only mystics seriously interested in picking this up will be melee mystics. Therefore, the assumption is that they have a decent weapon (let's call 1d6 on the low end of weapon damage) and a decent stat backing it (my lvl 1 mystic has a +4 modifier to DEX).

PRE-LVL 6
Without PW Focus, using 1psi Lethal Strike, no resistance: 1d6+1d10+4= ~13dmg
Without PW Focus, using 1psi Lethal Strike, melee resistance: (1d6+4)/2+1d10= ~9dmg
This is a notable decrease but...

With PW Focus, using 1psi Lethal Strike, no resistance: 1d6+1d10= ~9dmg
With PW Focus, using 1psi Lethal Strike, melee resistance: 1d6+1d10= ~9dmg
No loss of damage, but the BASE damage, against the vast majority of enemies, is already lowered.

POST-LVL 6
The damage would no longer be any different, but by this point most characters should have a +1 weapon, which circumvents the need for this focus entirely. I get that there may be a handful of scenarios where this is useful, but I can't see this being practical day-in, day-out. The rest of the Psychic Weapon ability justifies it across the board, but this particular focus seems only detrimental.

I know there are a lot of other quirks and discrepancies at this point, and I'm trying to feel them out for my DM, because I'm far more knowledgeable about mystics than he is at this point. What other homebrews/ tweaks should I look at making, or abilities I should avoid?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Honestly, Psionic Weapon is not a very good discipline, unless you're fighting a lot of things resistant to non-magic damage and can't find any magic weapons. Brute Force is more broadly useful for melee, while Nomadic Arrow is way better for archers. I guess if you really want to switch-hit?

Edit: that said, I think Ethereal Weapon is best combined with GWM/Sharpshooter, to bypass the usual penalty.

[Sinon]

I think a lot of the Discipline Foci (Focuses?) are situational at best. (Swim speed? How often do I need that?)

Obviously, I wouldn’t even be looking at the Psychic Weapon Discipline if I weren’t making a melee mystic.

If I were, the selling point at low levels would actually be the Focus, if and only if I knew I was looking at an undead sort of campaign.

Shadows, skeletons, specters – all low-level and resistant to some sort of physical damage.

(There’s also that smack-talking bear totem barbarian. He needs to come down a peg or two.)

Otherwise, as has been said, there are probably better choices.


I know there are a lot of other quirks and discrepancies at this point, and I'm trying to feel them out for my DM, because I'm far more knowledgeable about mystics than he is at this point. What other homebrews/ tweaks should I look at making, or abilities I should avoid?

I was playing around with an Immortal Goliath. Not really optimal, but I liked:

Iron Durability – a focus that’s always good; a reaction that’s your version of Shield.

Giant Growth – The reach and increased size/damage are nice, but really, it’s just effing fun to be big.

Brute Force is good. With something heavily melee focused, your Int might not be good enough to get the most out of Knock Back. The warning on this one is Mighty Leap – it looks great, jumping up to like 140 feet, but read the rules on jumping in the PHB, and each jumped foot costs you a foot of your regular movement.

Corrosive Metabolism feels fun, but I don’t see anything it grants that’s better.

In the design I was playing with, between lower hp, AC and considering the attention a large creature might get, defense was crucial, so I also had Intellect Fortress – Imposing disadvantage on an attack could be a life-saver, and it might be better than Iron Durability in some cases, like a crit; Psychic Parry is Shield but for some of the scarier saves. (And I can swap out my Wis-save proficiency for Con, helping me maintain concentration.)

Finally, when it is said and done, I didn’t want to make a second-rate big, dumb fighter, Mantle of Command and Psionic Restoration would give me a larger role. (Extra reach works for Mend wounds and Restore Health as much as for an attack.)

[Meem]

If you want to a big hit at range, its brilliant when combined with mastery of wood and earth.

Sure the focus is situational, but lethal strike as a bonus action followed by animate weapon tops out at 7d10 + 7d10 + weapon damage + spell mod.

Thats a lot of damage at 30ft with anything your character can lift with one hand.

Expensive but very satisfying if used sparingly.