”Fixing” spells that transforms casters into battleforms.

[Spacehamster]

On paper stuff like tensers and guardian of nature look great but they have one glaring error: concentration, this is how I feel spells in this vein should have been solved.

Remove concentration and just make it a timed buff, second make it so you can’t concentrate on spells while in battle form to prevent fist casting haste and then transform the next turn, that way you remove the ****ty loose the spell on first turn **** and still avoid making it op since it can’t be stacked with concentration spells.

Anyone else think this would make more sense since they already have the drawback of putting you in the middle of danger?

[Asmotherion]

-Combat Caster works great for me, together with having proficiency in Con Saves.
-An easyer fix could be removing the clause about the DC being equal to the Damage you take, whichever is greater; in that case, the damage always stays in a safe DC; Failure is always a threat, but a less relevant one.

Overall, Gishing effectivelly needs to take a bit of Dedication in my oppinion, and "concentration to maintain a key-spell" wile in melee combat is very flavorfull. The anoying part is loosing said concentration due to taking damage from a fireball/DS wich is imposible by the rules to save against, but still, automatic loss of concentration due to taking a lot of damage is a logical mechanic (how concentrated could you be on say, solving a complicated equation in your head, wile at the same time someone just hit you with a baseball bat?).

[Spacehamster]

-Combat Caster works great for me, together with having proficiency in Con Saves.
-An easyer fix could be removing the clause about the DC being equal to the Damage you take, whichever is greater; in that case, the damage always stays in a safe DC; Failure is always a threat, but a less relevant one.

Overall, Gishing effectivelly needs to take a bit of Dedication in my oppinion, and "concentration to maintain a key-spell" wile in melee combat is very flavorfull. The anoying part is loosing said concentration due to taking damage from a fireball/DS wich is imposible by the rules to save against, but still, automatic loss of concentration due to taking a lot of damage is a logical mechanic (how concentrated could you be on say, solving a complicated equation in your head, wile at the same time someone just hit you with a baseball bat?).

Some spells should not have concentration tho, if a spell transforms you into a raging hulk or an avatar of battle and takes away your casting for the duration that to me does not feel like concentration, haste and shizz that enhances your weapon but keeps you in your frail caster form I’m all for having concentration on. But the others I see it as you are no longer a caster but a warrior for the duration.

[Draken]

-Combat Caster works great for me, together with having proficiency in Con Saves.
-An easyer fix could be removing the clause about the DC being equal to the Damage you take, whichever is greater; in that case, the damage always stays in a safe DC; Failure is always a threat, but a less relevant one.

Overall, Gishing effectivelly needs to take a bit of Dedication in my oppinion, and "concentration to maintain a key-spell" wile in melee combat is very flavorfull. The anoying part is loosing said concentration due to taking damage from a fireball/DS wich is imposible by the rules to save against, but still, automatic loss of concentration due to taking a lot of damage is a logical mechanic (how concentrated could you be on say, solving a complicated equation in your head, wile at the same time someone just hit you with a baseball bat?).

The DC is half the damage (or 10, whichever is higher) so that only starts mattering when damage is over 21.

I just went to check the spell and honestly, just flat removing the concentration aspect with no other cave-eats would make it... At best ok in my book, likely not a spell I would ever use regardless.

[Lombra]

They're powerful, if a caster takes them, then he probably has either war caster, proficiency in constitution saves, or both, which makes it hard to break concentration. They work fine, they're both panic button spells, and can turn the tables of an encounter, you shouldn't use them against creatures that deal large amounts of damage in one hit, and it's part of the fun having to choose depending on the situation, at least IMO.

[Unoriginal]

but they have one glaring error:

It's not an error, it's there to balance the perks of the spell.



Anyone else think this would make more sense since they already have the drawback of putting you in the middle of danger?

It's not a drawback, it's the whole point of the spell. You use it BECAUSE you want to be in the middle of the danger, and the drawback is that it uses Concentration, because making the casters to be as good at martial stuff as the martials is a terrible idea (for obvious reasons).

[Spacehamster]

It's not an error, it's there to balance the perks of the spell.



It's not a drawback, it's the whole point of the spell. You use it BECAUSE you want to be in the middle of the danger, and the drawback is that it uses Concentration, because making the casters to be as good at martial stuff as the martials is a terrible idea (for obvious reasons).

But nobody in their right mind would use them since there is much better spells that from distance does bigger damage in ONE turn than say tensers would do from the danger of melee in several turns so yes it is a big drawback and suboptimal in most ways compared to just taking a control spell or a long range AoE spell.

[Asmotherion]

Btw, both spells you mention give you a form that gives you proficiency in Con saves. If you are interested in being even better in it, invest in Combat Caster. Finally, wile I'm not sure if it's RAW, I don't count Temporary HP as damage towrds the caster (I think of them as a kind of Ward that absorbs Damage rather than actual Hit Points). Both Spells give Temporary HP, so you shouldn't worry about loosing concentration on the First Turn. If you want a Tenser's Transformation that is 100% RAW protected, go for an Abjurer Wizard with Combat Caster as Well. Arcane Ward absorbs Damage before you start loosing actual HP, so you'll be fine 'till 50+Arcane Ward HP are up.

[Squiddish]

Some easy ways to avoid failing concentration saves (Many can be stacked):

Abjuration wizard's arcane ward protects you from damage and thus makes it less likely for you to fail saves
Bladesingers add their int mod to concentration checks, making it somewhat easier. At higher levels they can reduce damage directly using spell slots
Warcaster gives advantage
Sorcerers are proficient in con saves, and wizards can become proficient using Tenser's Transformation (also uses concentration) or the Resilient feat



A bladesinger wizard with warcaster could end up with a ridiculously high bonus to concentration saves, consistent advantage, and the ability to greatly reduce the damage. An abjuration wizard with warcaster could, through well-planned usage of shield, take fairly little damage for the entire battle and easily pass the low DC concentration checks they would end up making.

(Of course, shield isn't an option while tenser's transformation is active, but for other combat buffs it is entirely viable)